Rumor: AMD's Single-GPU R9 390X Will Be Liquid Cooled

[JackNaylorPE]

I dunno .... it's been a long time since temperature was the governing factor in a GFC card OC for me. Hopefully they will cool as well but get quieter like MSI.

Box w/ twin 780s (26% OC) @ 44C under full stress (EKWB)
Box w/ twin 560s (27% OC) @ 79C under full stress (Asus DCII)
Box w/ single 580 (12% OC) @ 77C under full stress (EVGA FTW)

 

[tmboyz]

hopefully not ice cold, I wouldn't want to wait too long for the card to warm up.

 

[jimmysmitty]

I hope I'm wrong but I have a feeling the 980 and 390 are both going to disappoint. I've seen benchmarks saying the 980 is barely faster then 780. Other sources say it's 30% above the 780ti. I'm pretty sure the new AND line won't be leaps and bounds better then Nvidia. They are always +/- 10% and cheaper but louder/hotter/poor drivers.

I don't understand the Driver-argument. Poor drivers hasn't been the case with ATI/AMD for at least 10 years.

Do the following: Go to google.com, search for "display driver has stopped responding". And at the end you add Nvidia. How many hits do you get? Then you do the same with AMD. How many hits do you get?
In my experience, Nvidia drivers suck. Newer versions of drivers give poorer performance and all kinds of issues left and right. And I only just got the dam card. I've had ATI-cards for 15 years. I did have the original Geforce once upon a time. Thats when ATI last had driver issues IMHO.
The black-screen issue is not about drivers. It is about their partners (Sapphire etc) trying to be cheap in terms of components (but failing). And Nvidia has that same issue. Can't fix hardware limitations with software.

AMD had a lot of issues with Frame Pacing. They took too long to fix it as well as NVidia had a fix out well before AMD did.

As for Sapphire, you do realize that Sapphire designs the stock PCB and cooling system for AMD, right? As well all the stock cards from the various vendors are the exact same to the components used as the one Sapphire designs. It is only the after market ones that some will cheapen components. Both Asus and Sapphire tend to use the best components on their top of the line GPUs. That is why the Sapphire Toxic is one of the highest clocked and coolest running R9 290Xs right now.

 

[Mac266]

I think AMD are going to want to answer the GTX 980 with style.

 

[anubis44]

I can't understand for the life of me the appeal of CLCs on CPUs but they sell like crazy w/o actually accomplishing much if anything over their much cheaper air cooler cousins.

CLCs are: cheap for the cooling performance they give, no fuss-no muss vs. custom water, practically silent compared to air coolers, maintain consistently lower temps and provide an open motherboard to work on, instead of a metallic monstrosity to impede adding/removing ram or connectors. I'll never go back to an air cooler unless they can be the size of the factory Intel coolers and provide the same cooling ability as a CLC (which means never).

 

[bystander]

I can't understand for the life of me the appeal of CLCs on CPUs but they sell like crazy w/o actually accomplishing much if anything over their much cheaper air cooler cousins.

CLCs are: cheap for the cooling performance they give, no fuss-no muss vs. custom water, practically silent compared to air coolers, maintain consistently lower temps and provide an open motherboard to work on, instead of a metallic monstrosity to impede adding/removing ram or connectors. I'll never go back to an air cooler unless they can be the size of the factory Intel coolers and provide the same cooling ability as a CLC (which means never).

The size part you may have right, but most all the tests I've seen show that the big air coolers are quieter and cooler. Of course the poor performing ones don't compete well.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

CLCs are: cheap for the cooling performance they give, no fuss-no muss vs. custom water, practically silent compared to air coolers, maintain consistently lower temps and provide an open motherboard to work on, instead of a metallic monstrosity to impede adding/removing ram or connectors. I'll never go back to an air cooler unless they can be the size of the factory Intel coolers and provide the same cooling ability as a CLC (which means never).

Ya really have to take a look at the science and the test results and dig a bit deeper than the advertising to see the picture here. Practically Silent ....????? How is 60 dbA silent ? My vacuum cleaner is quieter.

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/03/12/swiftech-h220-vs-corsair-h100i-noise-testing/

I can't stand to be in the same room with the H100i once it hits 55% CPU load.

1. First let's look at the 120/140mm CLCs. Here the $30 Hyper 212 toasts the $65 H55 ... can't see the logic work paying twice the price for less performance.

No 120/140 CLC ever made comes anywhere near the thermal performance of a quality air cooler.

2. Next, let's look at the 240/280mm CLCs. The H110 isn't bad.... ties the Noctua in thermal performance (comes up just shy of catching the Phanteks) and at comparable noise levels too.

Still I wouldn't buy it....don't see the logic of paying $115 for an H110 with wetted mixed metals when the Phanteks is just over half the price at $60 and edges it thermally to boot.

But the acknowledged thermal champion of the CLC world is the H100i wityh it's extreme rpm and 60+ dBA fans. The Cryorig R1 Air Cooler (See HitechLegion review below) beats the H100i (max 2700 rpm) by 1C at idle, beats it under load by 3C and is incredibly quiet comnpared to the H100i . Each 10dbA is a doubling of sound pressure level so 38 - 68 = 2 x 2 x 2 or 8 times as loud.

So, going back to your "cheap, consistently lower temps, quieter" statement, I'll need an explanation for the following:

How is the $100 H100i CLC cheaper than the $90 Cryorig Air Cooler ?
How is the 73C achieved by the H100i CLC lower than the 70C achieved by the Cryorig Air Cooler ?
How is the 68 dbA sound level of the H100i CLC quieter than the 38 dBA Cryorig Air Cooler ?

3. As for the RAM access issue, I can count the number of times I have taken RAM out of a build in the last 21 years on one hand. I have never had a problem doing so because we don't use tall RAM heat sinks .... "Looking Cool" is not an important RAM HS cooling function and that's the extent of their cooling abilities.

4. As for aesthetics, that's a personal thing so we can't bring actual test results into the discussion but, personally, I'd much rather look at a handsomely designed heat sink, color matched to my components at crisp right angles than a pair of tubes running this way and that. I use rigid tubing in straight vertical / horizontal lines for WC builds. As for size, well that radiator is a lot bigger than any air cooler I ever used. As for no fuss, no muss .... I have never had any fuss or muss with a quality air cooler. And speaking of fuss and muss, air coolers don't do this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/281843-29-corsair-exploded

5. Finally, as for open loop cooling, I don't see how the H100i or any other CLC is in any way easier, better performing or better looking than the OLC made by Swiftech ... every single review puts the OLC in a class by itself.

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/40870-swiftech-h220-x-open-loop-240mm-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=3

Installation of the H220X was very easy, probably the easiest liquid cooler I have ever done.

In terms of performance, well….we could simply leave it at the fact that the H220X is simply the best performing out-of-the-box cooler you can buy today. Period. It slightly betters its predecessor, the H220, as well as the Glacer 240L that is equipped with far more powerful and louder fans. The NZXT X60/61 comes close in terms of performance, but at the expense of far more noise and far less compatibility. 240mm CLCs can’t touch the H220X in all out performance, and at tolerable noise levels the H220X flat out embarrasses them. The Cryorig R1 and Noctua NH-D15 come closest in matching the H220X in terms of performance and noise, but fall short. What more can you say? We put the best out of the box solutions up against the H220X, and the H220X walked away a clear winner and did so with absolutely astonishing performance to noise. With all of this performance the H220X never topped 40 dB at full speed.

There is not a 240mm CLC or air cooler that can beat it, and it does it at 20+ dB quieter than the competing CLCs. To sum it up; the H220X offers better performance, lower noise, better aesthetics, flawless design and build, better components and the option of expandability when compared to a CLC. Putting it gently, choosing any CLC over the H220X would be doing yourself a huge disservice.

20 dBA quieter....that's 1/4 as loud. I couldn't have said it better than the author did in those last two sentences except to add "no possibility of galvanic corrosion as all components are copper / brass".

In conclusion,

-Since no 120/140mm can come anywhere close to competing with the more moderately priced air coolers, I don't see 120/140 CLCs as being relevant.

-With regard to 240/280mm CLC's, the current crop of quality air coolers (R1 / DH-15) , beat the H100i / 240L / X61 soundly in temps, sound and price.

-If ya want water cooling and are not ready to take on a custom water loop, there's simply no logic in selecting a CLC; the H220-X has made them all irrelevant. Yes, the h220-X is more expensive but:

It won't corrode from galvanic corrosion resulting from mixed metals
It beats everything else on the market while being 1/4 as loud as any CLC that comes close (Cryorig R1 / Noctua DH-15 air coolers comes close).
It is easier to install.
It has better aesthetics
It consists of an assemblage of time proven custom water cooling components
It has a reservoir
it has a coolant level indicator
It is expandable.

Are those 8 items worth $35 ? ... to my mind, in a heartbeat .

Before closing, getting back t the galvanic corrosion thing, CLC's are made with aluminum rads and copper cold plates, ... google "water cooling aluminum" .... it doesn't work out too well. Or just read this..... basically "Galvanic Corrosion 101" or "what happens when you mix copper and aluminum in a WC loop".

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/

 

[zon]

I really don't like the idea of the GPU being liquid cooled. To me the (not to be a fan boy I owned an ATi 1900 GT which was a great single slot card but ran really hot) the Maxwell seems to be the better card because of the lower TDP it has which will help with OC'ing and keep lower temperatures on air. On the R9 295X2 The liquid cool loop is understandable for running 2 GPU on a single PCB. Running 1 GPU on a single PCB and be liquid cooled seems that they have no idea how to get the temps down and the card is going to wear down faster because of that, and god forbid if the pump goes out and your card over heats it’s not going to last as long. If AMD gets their temps down with lower TDP and compete with NVidia then yes I will be willing to get an AMD card.

 

[Because0789]

Yes, in open test beds good air coolers to fantastically but in airflow restricted situations of any kind I think you might see a different story depending on the setup.