Rumor: Xbox 720 to Have 'Ridiculously Powerful' 16-Core CPU

[callmesmorz]

not to mention everything thinks its a full fledged 8 core, while im pretty sure its not.

 

[PCgamer81]

[citation][nom]callmesmorz[/nom]not to mention everything thinks its a full fledged 8 core, while im pretty sure its not.[/citation]

You are 100% correct. It is actually a single core 7 SPE processor @ 3.2GHz.

 

[stusmygsgbrd]

16 sounds unlikely though not impossible, the important thing about a gaming console is graphics proccessing, so there is worthwhile advantage going for an apu possibly 8 core and some kind of gddr 5 graphics. Quite possibly this will total out at 2,000 gpu's, after all just an 8 core amd apu comes in at 800 gpu's, 2Gb gddr 5 ram, 8Gb of fast flash wouldn't hurt either, as blue ray dvd's have a capacity of 50Gb, games developers will be able to use all that and want more. Heating on an 8 core x86 64bit ought to be alright at 22nm, perhaps they could back it with 8Gb 1.866Ghz ddr 3 ram after all I can get 8Gb 1.6Ghz for $55 now, not next year and that's retail.

 

[analytic1]

I done a little bit of reading on practical-game-architecture-for-multi-core-systems , i now think a 16 threaded cpu looks more correct , while threading could run at 3.2GHz or what speed they decide , each core running at 3.2GHz , a light OS , 1080p 60 FPS multiplayer 32+ , sounds good to me ...

The xbox 360 has 6 threads and the cores are made from a weaker architecture than the ones of today , if the xbox 360 has been using 6 threaded coding for a while , i am sure coders that code for consoles have been ready for a very long time ....

As long as there are at least two games at launch that are complex enough for me to say , xbox 360 you were good but there's a new model on the horizon .

I hope they do a good job ....

 

[blazorthon]

You are 100% correct. It is actually a single core 7 SPE processor @ 3.2GHz.

If I remember correctly, the Cell's single integer core is multi threaded.

 

[blazorthon]

I done a little bit of reading on practical-game-architecture-for-multi-core-systems , i now think a 16 threaded cpu looks more correct , while threading could run at 3.2GHz or what speed they decide , each core running at 3.2GHz , a light OS , 1080p 60 FPS multiplayer 32+ , sounds good to me ...

The xbox 360 has 6 threads and the cores are made from a weaker architecture than the ones of today , if the xbox 360 has been using 6 threaded coding for a while , i am sure coders that code for consoles have been ready for a very long time ....

As long as there are at least two games at launch that are complex enough for me to say , xbox 360 you were good but there's a new model on the horizon .

I hope they do a good job ....

The Xbox 360 has the Xenon, a tri core, dual threaded CPU, so yes, it should have six threads. However, not all of them are used for the game engine. One whole core is often allocated to the Kinect and is probably not used much, if at all, without Kinect being active. With that in mind, the game engine may have, at most, four threads like several current games. It might even have less if another core is allocated to specific things as well.

 

[PCgamer81]

[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]If I remember correctly, the Cell's single integer core is multi threaded.[/citation]
I am totally ignorant on that one, bud. Oh, and I meant to edit some of the rudeness out of my post on the other article but I got kicked and can't post there anymore. Just thought I would let you know here...

 

[Yadhu]

Killer perfomance!

 

[brythespy]

I'm suprised at how little PS3 Fanboy bashing is here. Has the world changed? Is it OK for me to move back to earth?

Anyway I am a PS3 fanboy but if this rumor is true, and the rumors about the PS orbis are true (No support for used games? *seriously face*) I'd definatly get this.

 

[bigdog44]

Actually, in the Xenon, 2 of the 6 threads are typically used for the graphics core and kinect used about 15% of compute resources in the beginning, but uses less now. The reason IBM uses 4 threads per core is because it is a more efficient use of die space, especially when Bandwidth is a concern and there is a huge amount of eDRAM to help as
well. The Next console will probably have abt. 48MB or more of high speed eDRAM on the same die pkg. as the XCGPU2 for both video buffering and to act as L3 cache for the cpu cores. The are probably 12 SIMDs in a 2x6 arrangement with dual geometry/tesselation engines on the gpu side. The main point, however, is that the chip will most likely have resources to further assist with thread management and the SDKs the developers get will as well to keep the platform easy to program for. The PS4 will become the most PC-like and the WiiU will be similar in ways to the XBox developement. This will make it easier to spread the same game across all platforms, including the tablet and phone markets. This should allow developers to take less risk with big budget games. There are also ways this could help the pc market. ( I just hope they have spent some time on cross-plattform UI compatability as well )...#

 

[callmesmorz]

[citation][nom]PCgamer81[/nom]Who do you think you are talking to someone like that? I will have you know that I am a die hard PC gamer who has a pretty decent rig - dual 6970s - and still has an Xbox 360 that I play and love. It isn't as good as PC, but it is still a blast. And sometimes shooters can be more satisfying pulling the trigger with dual shock. I think you are a turd, and elitism - even PC gaming elitism - SUCKS.[/citation]


SIGH i guess i should stop doing "/s" because i guess thats outdated or something. it means "sarcasm"its because he said "im surprised people dont hate on the ps3 or whatever" lol my bad.


and if i had 6970's..... drooool

 

[blazorthon]

Actually, in the Xenon, 2 of the 6 threads are typically used for the graphics core and kinect used about 15% of compute resources in the beginning, but uses less now. The reason IBM uses 4 threads per core is because it is a more efficient use of die space, especially when Bandwidth is a concern and there is a huge amount of eDRAM to help as
well. The Next console will probably have abt. 48MB or more of high speed eDRAM on the same die pkg. as the XCGPU2 for both video buffering and to act as L3 cache for the cpu cores. The are probably 12 SIMDs in a 2x6 arrangement with dual geometry/tesselation engines on the gpu side. The main point, however, is that the chip will most likely have resources to further assist with thread management and the SDKs the developers get will as well to keep the platform easy to program for. The PS4 will become the most PC-like and the WiiU will be similar in ways to the XBox developement. This will make it easier to spread the same game across all platforms, including the tablet and phone markets. This should allow developers to take less risk with big budget games. There are also ways this could help the pc market. ( I just hope they have spent some time on cross-plattform UI compatability as well )...#

TYVM for that. Some people seem to assume that just because a machine has so many cores/threads, all of those cores/threads are used in the way that those people want them to be. I have yet to learn of a game engine that uses more than four threads. Also, if the PS4 is more PC-like than the next Xbox, does that mean the developing a game for it and porting it to the PC will allow more optimized usage of resources than a PS3/Xbox 360 port being run on a PC? Basically, would developing a game for the PS4 and porting it to the next Xbox and the PC will allow a more optimized platform across the entire gaming industry than developing for the current consoles and then porting it over does today?

 

[bigdog44]

I imagine when you buy blocks of 500,000 units the price goes down substantially, if they actually buy them from IBM rather than just buying licencing rights to the chip design. I would think the volume of chips MS would require for the Xbox would double the annual output of what IBM makes for their servers.

A $300 cpu would be twice the starting cost of the xenos, and in a console purportedly with a lower entry cost???

 

[bigdog44]

hard to picture atm. give it a year and a half and it might seem more feasible. maybe theyre thinking forwards.

would really be amazing to see the envelope pushed so far. would be a real step up in gaming to see so many cores utilized.

anyone know of any 16 core ibm power

The Power7 has 8 cores and 32 threads.
I'm thinking the writer was confusing cores and threads and meant 16 threads which would be 4 cores. Or maybe 4 cpu cores + 12 SIMD cores on the GPU for a 16 core total.

 

[bigdog44]

This is not accurate. The new XBOX 720 will have 16 threads not cores. It will have 4 cores with quad-threading. Source

The pictures looks like a cut and paste project. Specs look good til you get down to the VMX units, at which point everything starts to get underspecced and the ridiculous 80MB eDRAM on the chip which would put it at 1.5 Billion Transistors + and would have to be on a 28nm process or smaller, which doesn't make as much sense as 32nm at this time. 48-60MB of eDRAM on the same die pkg. would be sufficient for both L3 cache and Frame Buffer.

 

[PCgamer81]

[citation][nom]callmesmorz[/nom]SIGH i guess i should stop doing "/s" because i guess thats outdated or something. it means "sarcasm"its because he said "im surprised people dont hate on the ps3 or whatever" lol my bad.and if i had 6970's..... drooool[/citation]
Sorry man. My mistake.

Yeah, dual 6970s pack a wallup. IMO the 6970 only really shines in crossfire. But I would still be hesitant to recommend them to someone starting out, seeing as how today there are much better and more powerful options at similar price points.

 

[callmesmorz]

[citation][nom]PCgamer81[/nom]Sorry man. My mistake.Yeah, dual 6970s pack a wallup. IMO the 6970 only really shines in crossfire. But I would still be hesitant to recommend them to someone starting out, seeing as how today there are much better and more powerful options at similar price points.[/citation]

Yeah, i dont have the scratch for that kind of GPU power (wish i did) over here Ive got a Sapphire 6870. its no powerhouse, but it gets the job done good enough for me

 

[PCgamer81]

[citation][nom]callmesmorz[/nom]Yeah, i dont have the scratch for that kind of GPU power (wish i did) over here Ive got a Sapphire 6870. its no powerhouse, but it gets the job done good enough for me[/citation]It's really all you need. I bet you have no problem maxing Crysis.

I would only recommend more power for very high definitions, multi-displays, or graphical mods.

 

[bigdog44]

[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]TYVM for that. Some people seem to assume that just because a machine has so many cores/threads, all of those cores/threads are used in the way that those people want them to be. I have yet to learn of a game engine that uses more than four threads. Also, if the PS4 is more PC-like than the next Xbox, does that mean the developing a game for it and porting it to the PC will allow more optimized usage of resources than a PS3/Xbox 360 port being run on a PC? Basically, would developing a game for the PS4 and porting it to the next Xbox and the PC will allow a more optimized platform across the entire gaming industry than developing for the current consoles and then porting it over does today?[/citation]


Long story short it's about evolution and platforms being a product of their environment just like everything else. Up until now it's been about divergent evolution, but convergent evolution is the only thing that going to keep mostly everyone happy. The console makers in particular will have to look at more ways to differentiate their product than just hardware.

 

[davemaster84]

If they do it that way for sure consoles are going to be around $600 or more

 

[darkavenger123]

Try not to get too excited....if it's something like the PS3 SPE....which already have 7 of those....or some simple in-order execution cores....16 cores is nothing much to shout about. Anyway, it doesn't really matter, it's the end results which count, regardless it's 16 cores or 4 cores. People gets to excited over number of cores too easily nowadays just like people did in the 80s/90s or processor speed bump.

 

[PCgamer81]

[citation][nom]darkavenger123[/nom]Try not to get too excited....if it's something like the PS3 SPE....which already have 7 of those....or some simple in-order execution cores....16 cores is nothing much to shout about. Anyway, it doesn't really matter, it's the end results which count, regardless it's 16 cores or 4 cores. People gets to excited over number of cores too easily nowadays just like people did in the 80s/90s or processor speed bump.[/citation]
Absomalutely.

When it comes to gaming, the clock rate is of far more importance than the number of actual cores. The only thing that having 16 cores will do for Xbox 720 is allowing Kinect to be taken to a new level.

With that said, it would be wise of Microsoft not to get too fancy. Sony did with their Playstation 3, and developers couldn't develop for the damn thing! It was far to complicated. Save for a few developers that decided to put forth the time and effort to develop for PS3, most games suffered terribly by the PS3's illogical hardware design.

It was the multi-platform titles that suffered the worse. The PS3 has had it's fair share of absolutely terrible, god-awful ports.

 

[bigdog44]

Remember that its all based on $$$.

The $$$ comes primarily from the media.

The current generation of hardware is still primarily based upon Physical Media.
The next generation will be a hybrid model (world-wide internet penetration still less than 35%).
The one after that will be primarily non-physical media (download only), with the console acting as a thin client.
Sooooo... the next generation hardware only really needs to be powerful enough to handle the media until the ISPs can catch up with more averaged speed for the masses, so that its lifespan can be greatly increased, as its size and cost decreases.

I think that Microsoft currently has a good thing going with kinect, in that it's available on 2 of the platforms and Kinect 2.0 should be able to surprise us.
I also believe that they currently have the talent and software ability to provide the type of virtual screens like those in the movie "minority report", by providing a great 3D experience on a non-3D TV.

MS just needs to kill the RROD issue once and for all, provide a better, more advanced and unique user experience than the other consoles and come in at a good base model price. 16 "full-fledged" cores aren't necessary for any of these things to happen, and neither are 2,000+SPUs.

 

[blazorthon]

Absomalutely.

When it comes to gaming, the clock rate is of far more importance than the number of actual cores. The only thing that having 16 cores will do for Xbox 720 is allowing Kinect to be taken to a new level.

With that said, it would be wise of Microsoft not to get too fancy. Sony did with their Playstation 3, and developers couldn't develop for the damn thing! It was far to complicated. Save for a few developers that decided to put forth the time and effort to develop for PS3, most games suffered terribly by the PS3's illogical hardware design.

It was the multi-platform titles that suffered the worse. The PS3 has had it's fair share of absolutely terrible, god-awful ports.

Keep in mind that clock frequency is only one factor in per core performance. Knowing its clock frequency without knowing its IPC is almost useless for determining performance per core.

 

[PCgamer81]

[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]Keep in mind that clock frequency is only one factor in per core performance. Knowing its clock frequency without knowing its IPC is almost useless for determining performance per core.[/citation]
That's actually very true. But the point I'm trying to make, is that merely knowing the number of cores is as much cause for celebration as, say, finding out how much VRAM a GPU has and celebrating without first knowing anything about it's shading, pixel rate, stream processors, etc.