Second Take: Bioshock's DRM Problem

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It is not about the material, it is about the principle, and they are scum who are infecting your pc with securom filth. I am boycotting the game, the principle and 2k forever, screw them. It is my computer, it is my PERSONAL computer, not their piece of crap developer workspace, they don't get to say what i do on my pc. They dont get to phuck my registry up with their securom crap. I hope that no one buys this shitty game i hope 2k goes under. I am none too happy with steam either.

Protect your assets by all means, but don't you dare touch my 5h17 to do so.

In south africa it is illegal to stop someone form being allowed to break the law. Ie you cannot put governers in public transport. So technically what 2k is doing is illegal in south africa. And thus me buying it will be condoning an illegal action which is also illegal therefore anyone who buys this here deserves community service etc.

I am off to buy galactic civilizations just to prove my point.

I agree with Rob, don't buy it don't steal it don't look at it don't touch it and don't go near it.
 
You know, on further consideration, the irony of the situation is extremely funny.

They made it so that if you end up reformatting your computer or reinstalling the game too many times, the game doesn't work. They did this by installing 'invasive crap' in your system. The reason everyone needs to reinstall games and whole operating systems so often (apparently) is because so many kinds of software install 'invasive crap' in their systems. *guffaws* :pt1cable: :lol:

Maybe we should all go out and buy macs instead. I think I'm gonna go play a game on my Nintendo now. hahahaha... :lol:
 
except for a few times this past summer i have to call Microsoft and phone activate every time i install windows xp pro. its happened so many times now that its expected and now its not too much of a hassle.
as long as bioshock is updated with patches and theres no spyware then ill be happy. but there is too much fuss over this game because hell man! its not even multiplayer
 
Why is everyone so pissed about this???? Whats wrong with the activation and the MASSIVE 5 install limit????? Whats wrong with the rootkits???

The people who complain about the above issue are f**king b***es, gay *ite m***er f**kers

Dont you have software like this already on your computer!? Why dont you complain about it? Why dont you make a stance about it?

What software you ask?
Bioshock <--> Microsoft Windows!
Activation: 5 <--> 1
rootkits: you tell me <--> plenty
reg keys: ??? <--> millions of crap you didnt authorise

But hey, at least Windows has a decent return policy 'on paper'

If you got a problem with Bioshock go suck **** *****


Peace
 
Most of the controversy is with the PC/secuRom issues with Bioshock. I’d like to know why no one is addressing the fact that the 360 version does not have the same level of copy protection. When console games are resold by consumers or game stores or rented, of which Publishers/Devs don’t see a cent, why isn’t 2K putting a limit on the number of 360’s the disc can be played on? When a cracked version of the 360 Bioshock was on torrents launch day, why isn’t 2K implementing an online verification/patch process?

Maybe it’s my indignation over what I perceive as singling out the PC gamer. Is PC piracy really a larger threat to their bottom line than the console used game sales and rental market? I go into a game store and am amazed that the used game section for each console is at least as large, if not larger, than the new games section. There are several brick and mortar and online stores that rent console games. And, there is also a console piracy community as well. Why did 2K effectively ignore all of them and only go after the PC gamer?
 
Only 5 installs per PC. My copy took 3 installs to work!

@ Bop Top: the normal 360 gamer doesn't know that you can get cracked discs and burn them yourself. All they know is that you have to buy the game to play it. So basically the 360 gamer is NOT a PC gamer. He went out and bought a piece of hardware, we put ours together.
 
Well after watching the video I had some ideas (they were brilliant, of course) so I came to the forum only to find that everyone else had the same ideas (Use Steam's one at a time system, use MAC filtering, etc). I guess everyone here is brilliant. Anyway since my main point has already been co-opted, I wanted to chip in my two cents on the DRM issue, and it's effect on PC gaming.
I think the fault for DRM software lies solely at the feet of hackers (actually, crackers) everywhere, and the thieves who will go online and download the cracked games/movies/music that they put up. This is a chicken and egg scenario if I've ever seen one: the game developers are merely trying to protect themselves. DRM is necessary only because PC gamers cannot be trusted to buy what they use and use what they buy. I'm not suggesting that 2K has handled this the right way; they definitely should have made users aware of the restrictions prior to purchasing.
If you want to know what will kill PC gaming, if anything, its the shrinking revenues from games that get pirated. If the profits dry up, the development companies will find other ways to make money and we won't have good games to play.
 
I will destroy anyone who I know to be a part of DRM. Consider your lives threatened, I will beat you with a industrial grade rubber mallet named Dupre!

What if secureRom ceases to exist.. or what if in 30 years someone wants to play the game again but can't get support and thus they can't get a key reset and thus can't install the game.

Again I will mutilate anyone who is part of DRM. I will beat you with a mallet named Dupre!
 
This whole topic seems to have descended into the realm of paranoia. :sarcastic:

Honestly, I think everyone needs to calm down. Smashing your game with a hammer (and ruining the desk while you're at it) is a perfect analogy for all this. Now you need a new desk! Long after the software developers fix this problem with their publisher, you will STILL need a new desk. :pfff:
Click to expand...

Yes, the desk was an unfortunate casualty. But hey, it was a cheap piece of junk and we needed new furniture anyway.

For one, I am confident that with the reputation of the development team that actually worked on the game, that this strangely restrictive DRM model they've used was not their idea. Some "genius" :pfff: at the publisher forced this on them. Obviously it was a mistake. Having said that, I'm also sure that they're realizing now that they've just "offended their audience in the worse way possible" and will attempt to eliminate the mistake.

So they screwed up. Name us a company that hasn't. At least the game isn't beta software shoved out the door for Christmas. It's got a couple bugs to patch, but it works. It even supports an Xbox 360 controller if you plug it into your computer and want to run it just like the console version. And the game got great reviews. So there's nothing wrong with the cookies except the box they came in, so to speak, and I've seen too many games that weren't worth the time to play when they came out for incomplete development. And there are way too many games that just plain suck.

For now, because the anti-piracy software the publisher chose to use is manifesting like a nasty bug and the media has latched on (including THG) like bloodthirsty tabloids, it looks bad. But I agree with the sentiment that a model like Steam is a good idea.
Click to expand...

I see what your saying, Retrogame. And to an extent, I agree. I gave BioShock a 9.5 out of 10 in my review and didn't mention anything about SecuROM or DRM. Why? It's a seperate issue that has nothing to do with the content of the game. And I agree with you -- I don't think Irrational Games/2K Boston/2K Australia was aware of the situation, and think this is something that probably came from the publisher and parent company. So I don't blame the developers for this one, and I take them at their word that they are working diligently to fix all problems. However, ignoring the issue and pretending the problem doesn't exist just because BioShock is a great title doesn't seem exactly fair to me.

Why is everyone so pissed about this???? Whats wrong with the activation and the MASSIVE 5 install limit????? Whats wrong with the rootkits???
Click to expand...

Don't pay any attention to Cruiseoveride. This man is clearly drunk.

Most of the controversy is with the PC/secuRom issues with Bioshock. I’d like to know why no one is addressing the fact that the 360 version does not have the same level of copy protection. When console games are resold by consumers or game stores or rented, of which Publishers/Devs don’t see a cent, why isn’t 2K putting a limit on the number of 360’s the disc can be played on? When a cracked version of the 360 Bioshock was on torrents launch day, why isn’t 2K implementing an online verification/patch process?

Maybe it’s my indignation over what I perceive as singling out the PC gamer. Is PC piracy really a larger threat to their bottom line than the console used game sales and rental market? I go into a game store and am amazed that the used game section for each console is at least as large, if not larger, than the new games section. There are several brick and mortar and online stores that rent console games. And, there is also a console piracy community as well. Why did 2K effectively ignore all of them and only go after the PC gamer?
Click to expand...

BopTop, you make an excellent point. It's a bad situation of PC gamers. I'm not about to suggest this is intentional, though some people feel it's part of a master plan by Sony, Microsoft, etc. to kill PC gaming and build up the console market. Now THAT would be the kind of the paranoia and hysteria Retrogame is talking about.
 
i would just like to quote one of the earlier posts.

-
DRM is like a lock on a glass door, it will keep the neighbors out, but will not stop a thief.
-

DRM doesn't hurt the crackers, it only hurts the people who actually want to buy the game and those kind of people who dont format their windows every month, and instead install dumb tweaking software to speed it up. Yeah, you know the kind, the ones that right click on the desktop and click "Refresh" periodically.

As long as you can see/read something you can copy it, if you have storage space.

There are so many ways of implementing "DRM" that do not piss people off. I used to work for a company that provided DRM solutions (to Sony, Microsoft, Banks etc...).

Have any of you actually used expensive software? Well for those who dont know how copy protection on high end software works, its like this... with the software, you are sold a small token, usually called a dongle, special proprietary hardware. This dongle contains a certificate signed against your registration information that the software checks each time you try and run it.

You can copy cds/dvds etc.. but you cannot copy HSM tokens.
 
Playing a Game is not a business proposition. If a game company wants to pay me to play their game, sure I'll use a dongle. But if its for my own entertainment thus I have no need for a license or a dongle because I am not making money from the use of said software.
 


The closest thing we have to a token in the gaming world is Steam, or other games that require constant online access, like MMORPGs. With the availability of Internet access in today's world, I think it would be acceptable practice to require online access, even for a single-player game. All that would be required is that the player login to his account to begin play. Then, the Internet could be disconnected for the remainder of the gaming session and an account could only be logged into once at any given time. This would allow everyone (face it, everyone who plays 3D PC games has an Internet connection of some kind) to play games legitimately without bugging them with the spectre of DRM software. In the case of Steam, it could also allow players more access to their games by allowing them to D/L the games they OWN to whatever computer they're at. I, for one, would be happy to sign up for a system like that!
 
well guys, you got what you payed for. you want it to be legit?
well, they don't care about that. you bought an original copy of
bioshock and it doesn't work? oh, it came with drm? tough
luck, boys. now, if you are still suckers who believe that
piracy is a reason for drm, you guys need a reality check.
game industry is not about you having fun, it is about making
money and more money. drm is here in order to make sure that
cash flow gets even bigger.

obviously game developers don't care whether your original
game will work or not, whether you'll be able to install it as
many times as you wish or not. it's all about the money, and by
being anti-piracy conformists, you are in fact helping them make
more money, and in fact you are helping them to put innocent
little kids in jail, just because they have shared/copied a silly
little game.

it's about people having fun, right? tell that to people who are
sitting in jail next to rapists are murderers just because they
copied or shared a game or a movie or a mp3.

not true? if things keep going this way, it will be true. a grim
reality lurks behind every single anti-piracy propaganda.

think about it.
 

But that 360 gamer, when they're done with Bioshock, can go to a game store and trade it in for credit towards another game. The game store then turns around and resells it to another customer for a larger profit than they would have made on a new copy of the same game. It's why, at least here in the US, game stores like Gamestop and EBGames (both owned by the same company) push their used games. If you go in to buy an older console game and ask for a new copy, they immediately ask if you wanted to buy a used copy instead.

Then there is the rental market. Brick and Mortar stores like Blockbuster and online services like Gamefly rent games. This rental revenue is also money 2K never sees. So why isn't 2K implementing some sort of DRM on the 360 version to prevent used game sales and rentals? Buy doing so on the PC version, they are effectively doing just that.


Well, in this case, it was 2K's decision to implement this level of DRM with their PC release, not MS. As far as I know, MS doesn't make nearly as much money on PC Games as they do on the 360. So I can see why they would rather more developers made 360 games. Ironically, it's MS's XNA development software for the 360 that makes it easier to port to the PC and vice versa. And MS' DX10, which the 360 does not support, was one of the ways MS tried to sell Vista to the PC Gamer/early adopter. So while I can see it being in MS's interest to have more games on the 360, their PC strategies don't seem to be hindering the PC gaming market.

Now Sony, on the otherhand, I could definitely see as wanting more games on their console, but with the shortage of PS3 games atm, their last place installed base, and recently, the atrocious reviews for Lair, I don't see Sony as a threat to the PC gamer anymore :lol:
 
I knew I was going to buy the game the minute I knew the designers of SystemShock were making a new game.
When I first saw the trailer I knew I was going to buy it the day it was released.
I then played the BioShock demo. Everything was great and brilliant.
After I finished the demo I saw at Tom's the debate that was raging.

I tried the same day to play FEAR. I couldn't because it said I was putting the wrong CD. I uninstalled and installed it again, and still no go.
I then had some issues with C&C 3.

So the bottom line is:
I pay for my games.
Because I play several games simultaneously, I have to cycle between DVDs, and insert/remove them a lot, with my computer's DVD drive with inconvenient access, for a 2 second verification.
Now, DRM systems are colliding.
That makes sense, because I have all kinds of DRM installed, from Audio to Software.
So I just reformated my 6 months old install of Vista x64.

The funny thing is that cracked versions run just fine...

Thank you gaming industry for treating your loyal customers as garbage... but not this time.

I'm boycotting a perfect game until they remove DRM.
I don't mind restrictions (one game key can be logged simultaneously as in Steam is reasonable), but installing hidden programs, and potentially creating security holes is intolerable.

Cheers,
 
first off, the drm only will tick off people who buy the game not people who want to pirate it since they will have a crack for it. drm does not protect against piracy unless your are a mega noob and don't know how to get cracked stuff. In other words, the correlation between piracy and drm is just "low hanging fruit" since if you want pirate the game you will regardless of protection(i admit it's not totally true for online games e.g. WOW). The response to piracy by the industry with stuff like this only hurts consumers NOT pirates. Pirates will always exist, its a fact of life, they are in a sense a canary in the mineshaft of freedom. An evil reminding you of your freedom. If they are gone bet money that your life will be far more restrictive as a consequence of whatever was done to get rid of them.

Second, if you're using this drm thing to justify pirating it, you should stop kidding yourself just to make your conscious free of guilt.

Third, if you bought the game and don't like this crap then crack the game you bought with the cracks made by the pirates. You bought the game and it's your right no matter what anyone says IMO. You have right to say what goes in your house, how is that different with virtual space i.e. the pc?

companies may just have accept that piracy is here to stay and stop pissing off honest consumers till they become pirates themselves.
 
Hmmm, you know, I have a good example to use for decent copy protection. Bioware, NWN game. You create a bioware account and the cd key is registered to your account. You can't play online games without it, and you can't play multiplayer over network unless you have a unique cd-key. They're also nice enough to store the key info on your accounts page if you opt for it.

I think the best way to have any copy protection or DRM at all, is to do like that. When you register the software purchase you make an account with the company. Then you tie the activation key to you yourself. One thing that will be common among pc's owned by one person is who the installed OS is registered to. They could work with MS and go by that maybe. That way the software license is tied to the person, not to a particular computer, and also not limited on how many times the game can be installed by that person on their own computers.

But I could see where that could pose security issues, if people could crack the DRM, that used personal OS install info, then they could find a way to collect that info for themselves.

I'll fully admit, every once in a while I'll use a no-cd fix. But I only use them on games I own, and usually on games that require changing the cd's often. Or some times just so I can keep the original disc in good shape, haven't mastered making backups of my games yet. I've got 3 drawers in my desk filled with jewel cases of from games I bought. And some more recent ones in the big plastic book cases. I do so miss the compactness of those old jewel cases.
 
Looks like a working crack has emerged. Or should I call it a 3rd party fix.

All those millions wasted on this DRM, for what, to have it defeated in 1 week. Probably would have sold more without it too. not to mention the savings in support costs. oh well live and learn.

As for dongles. Again not an undefeatable technology either.
Steam is also not undefeatable (there were plenty of working Half life 2 steam rips posted)

DRM is about as effective as the war on drugs.

Lets imagine in a perfect world that the copy protection was truely uncrackable. Pirates still aren't going to buy that game, they will just do without. Whether they play it for free or not 2k or whoever still isn't geting pirates dollars.

Bottom line the customer comes 3rd or 4th or last. These companies focus so much money and energy on a demographic that will never be interested in buying thier products, they hurt thier #1 demographic the genuine paying customers.
 
DRM encourages pirating, boycotting wont work for gamers as they want the game one way or another

the problem with securom is that it gives no motivation to buy the drm filled crap

in real life, you can buy a sony dvd player for $100 or you can buy a "sony" dvd player made in china by another company that puts the sony logo on their product for $25

what motivation do you have to buy the $100 dvd player, the answer is quality, the cheap versions of those players will probably only last a few months if your lucky, so everyone is motivated to spend the extra 75


but with DRM and games, the cheap/pirate versions are of a higher quality

99% of the problems that many people complain about are nonexistent
in the pirate copies.

before these companies release a game, they should ask them self, what motivation will they have to buy this game?

people like freedom



would you buy a game that feels like a dictatorship or will you download a game that has been liberated

when a company fills their games with DRM, it only bothers the legit users, the pirates will never even know these problems exist
as far as the pirates will see, they will notice the game just installs and is ready to use

games with heavy drm are the ones that are pirated the most



Have you herd of the term a bakers dozen
it was created a long time ago

many bakers would sell 12 pastries per package, but when more bakeries opened up, competition became heavy and this caused all bakeries to increase their quality, but that wasn't enough, one baker made something called a bakers dozen so now his customers would get 13 pastries for the price of 12, as with any bakery this would instantly make you win over the competition


what drm does is it reduces the dozen, down to only six while the pirate copies increase the dozen 144

 
Greetings!

Apparently, that version didnt worked, razor512.
Took a bit more than a week to get it to work in all computers tried, though.

This DRMshock fiasco should serve as a warning to the publishers of future games.
 
oh, the only version of the game I tried was the demo.

the game runs smooth but I don't like how the game play is.

it has a lot of action but not enough fun

I wish there were cheats. when freezing memory values I was able to get unlimited health against some enemies but not all, what is with that
 
It's just amazing that 2K went through all this trouble to stop hackers for eight days, yes eight. The game is already hacked and fully playable, what was the point of all of this mess if it's only going to take a week to break through it. The money that was spent implementing this and the money they lost with people getting fed up with this game is just rediculous.
 
Honestly, I was heading to best buy the day this thread opened up and after hearing all this mess, I just looked at the box, got what I needed and left. I had planned to buy it... it looks so good.
 
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