T-Mobile CEO Angry With People Who 'Steal' From Carrier's 'Unlimited' Data Plans

turkey3_scratch · Aug 31, 2015

Wait a second, you're telling me that an application has the ability to regulate is data is tethered at high or low speeds, rather than it being the carrier that regulates that in the first place? That's as insecure on their part as storing everyone's username and password of a website on the client rather than being verified by the server.

Also, I hate to be this guy but technically they are unlimited plans. You still get unlimited data, the word "unlimited" does not mean "unlimited at highest speeds", it only means "unlimited".

canadianvice · Aug 31, 2015

I believe it should be unlimited with a disclosed fair use policy. Wind in Canada has such a thing in place, it's 5GB of full speed data, after which speeds will slow. The idea is a person can see as many webpages and do about as much streaming as they want, but they can't effectively use their phone service as home internet, which I fully agree with. Go buy an actual internet package for that.

gbair · Aug 31, 2015

I believe it should be unlimited with a disclosed fair use policy. Wind in Canada has such a thing in place, it's 5GB of full speed data, after which speeds will slow. The idea is a person can see as many webpages and do about as much streaming as they want, but they can't effectively use their phone service as home internet, which I fully agree with. Go buy an actual internet package for that.

In many places in the US, internet through phone service is the only viable option. Until the entire country is covered by a halfway decent broadband connection (by current definition, 25 mbps), I don't blame or look down on the ones that do this.

bikerman7502002 · Aug 31, 2015

If a company states that a plan is unlimited it needs to be so. If it's limited in any way it should be stated, whether it limits the amount of data, the speed, or the option to tether your devices. To those that are defending the big businesses, if their network cannot keep up with unlimited data plans, they need to make a statement to that effect and offer customers who no longer wish to stay with them free cancellation, then start offering limited plans. The small print should never completely reverse the large print, it should only define it.
Most know that Verizon is guilty of this as well, by not allowing tethering on the unlimited data plans. To those that say there's free Wi-Fi everywhere, it's only true to an extent... Most of the time in my day is spent in places that do not have free wi-fi, and I live in a major metro area. My own home and those of my friends are the only places I regularly go that do. I still use more data through a cable internet plan at home, and I vastly prefer it for the speed, but when I need a connection, unlimited should mean unlimited.

turkey3_scratch · Aug 31, 2015

Wouldn't it be funny if the CEO had Verizon?

bombebomb · Aug 31, 2015

According to their statement on Twitter, I believe, they said people are using up to 2 TERABYTES of data a month. This isn't "just going passed the data caps", they are going against the ToS and manipulating the code to use for tethering, and they MUST be tethering and letting multiple people use their network. What could ONE person use 2TB of data A MONTH for?

The point T-Mobile is making is that when you have unlimited data, you have to follow the ToS. 21GB is basically unreachable on a mobile connection, with how readily available wi-fi is EVERYWHERE.

TL;DR - Get an ISP for your PC, don't try to use your MOBILE network for it

You can use 2TB a month doing specific tasks, with a single person. Point is, don't call it unlimited when it's not unlimited, then have the nerve to call people thief's.

AnUnusedUsername · Aug 31, 2015

Isn't it illegal, or at best unethical, to charge more for tethering than any other service? It's just data, why should the ISP be allowed to charge you more for one type of data than another? This is much like someone using VOIP instead of airtime and being charged for the airtime anyway.

thundervore · Aug 31, 2015

When i got my first smartphone i got unlimited data and i regularly used 5GB-6GB a month. When my contract run out and i got a new phone the unlimited plan was discontinued and i had to use a 2 GB plan.

When faced with a limit i made sure i used Wi-Fi whenever i could, i found out that my cable provider offered thousands of free WiFi spots and that i could walk home from the train and actually use their WiFi all the way until i reach my home.

When faced with a limit people start acting differently, they make sure they never cross their limit.

Funny, I was in kind of the same boat with ATT a while back and since I'm a Optimum Online customer I also have access to many free WIFI hotspots through out the city, I have Wi-Fi at home and I have Wi-Fi at work. After a 6 month period I realized that I was paying about $25 a month for a 300MB plan that I only used on average 30MB of data because my phone always connected to WIFI where ever I went day to day. So I figured that I can keep my $300 per year tell them FU and to take the plan off my smart phone which was already out of contract.

This is where they tried to tell me my phone wont work unless I had a data plan and they cannot take it off because I had a smartphone. Pulled up old Cingular flip, told them that was the phone I was using, gave them the IMEI number and to take off the data plan and WALA!!! I am now $300 a year richer while still using my smart phone without their data plan.

immerstark · Aug 31, 2015

I think a lot of people here are going full on stupid. The allowance for tethering is a very clearly stated 7GB, it is not unlimited, nothing official anywhere states tethering is unlimited. If you buy a plan that clearly states the tethering allowance is 7GB and then use nefarious means to circumvent the cap without paying for the extra data you are in fact a thief. Period. End of story. Seriously quit being a cheapskate and pony up for cable, DSL, fiber, WISP, satellite, or a bigger tethering plan.

380fmj · Aug 31, 2015

what a dumb ceo. uses the word "unlimited" to fool the general public into buying their internet access thru him, then turns into a huge freakin crybaby when his customers treat it as "UNLIMITED"! i hope he's sued into oblivion. where's the elite hackers of anonymous when you need them?

synphul · Aug 31, 2015

Tethering is only part of the issue. Many mobile carriers who have offered 'unlimited' data plans (those who haven't done away with them that is) state that no tethering is allowed at all. Tethering is an entirely different issue. I can see where a mobile provider is thinking in terms of mobile data usage. When it comes to playing music, watching video etc which are typical tasks done on phones or other mobile devices. They didn't intend to provide full isp bandwidth used for file sharing, downloading gb's worth of movie files and the sort of heavier usage seen on pc's.

The bigger issue I have with it is if they're cutting people off who aren't tethering simply because they used too much of an unlimited plan. Provided it's used the way the tos declares, by mobile (not torrenting etc) then either allow unlimited usage as advertised or change the name of the plan. If it hurts advertising image then so be it, can't have your cake and eat it too. Many have tried the same thing and it makes people mad and for good reason. False advertising.

If someone goes to an 'all you can eat' restaurant they expect what was offered. Not 'sorry, you've filled your plate twice you need to leave now'. If you want the perks of the advert claims, back it up. If not, then advertise within the limits to which they're comfortable working with and offer a single meal at a set price like everyone else and compete within the appropriate market. It's a different thing if someone is filling a bag with food, it's not 'all you can eat and whatever else you can carry'.

It's in extremely poor taste to call people thieves and berate them provided they're within the tos. Still in poor taste even if they're tethering and I would agree about the software that allows people to circumvent speed caps. If that's possible from an end user then the network has poor security. That should be server side only and protected to begin with.

For the folks who never come to the forums, can't be bothered or lack interest fine. However to log in just to down vote a bunch of people then disappear again, well - that's kind of like walking into a conference you have little interest in, cutting a huge fart and walking out. Grow up.

BenDaNukularPhysist · Aug 31, 2015

Everyone here has missed a very critical point. Net neutrality laws prevent him from taking exactly the action he claims he will take. couple references on this. He would without a doubt need to prove what those 3000 people were downloading exactly (if they were smart they were using VPNs) to use up the TB of data he claims they did.

The law is pretty clear on what he can do. And honestly going on twitter just shows the lack of defensiveness of his position. IMO just an empty threat to those users. Any action taken can result in a massive class action that directly violates the net neutrality laws now in place. Seeing as most tethering is just proxying, it would be hard to say they were breaking any ToS unless they are also monitoring specific data without a criminal reason which raises massive privacy issues as well.

Sprint when they had their unlimited data plans http://www.techtimes.com/articles/61616/20150618/new-net-neutrality-rules-end-sprint-throttling.htm a good example of this. http://www.cnet.com/news/7-things-net-neutrality-wont-do/ is another article. That said. If they are advertising unlimited then its unlimited. If they want to secure tethering then they need to be better about it. That becomes a security issue. People rooting or jailbreaking are typically the ones who would be able to do that. Regardless of the morals/ethics of the matter, the problem is T-Mobile here. Calling people thieves for figuring out how to use their phones and circumventing the shitty security is on T-Mobile.

jalek · Sep 1, 2015

Considered T-Mobile, but went with Cricket. Cricket doesn't advertise unlimited data, but a set number, after which it drops to 2G speeds. I haven't even used the 5gb I pay for in any month yet. That's stated up front though, not hidden behind a false "unlimited" claim. Seems he's playing games with the marketing and complaining about customers playing games with the service. Who has time for all that?

falchard · Sep 1, 2015

The problem in this case aren't people using unlimited data on their phone. Its them using their phone plan as a substitute for a traditional ISP. I thought its quite clear Unlimited Data referred to the phone using the data; not other devices using the connection. They actually have a separate data plan for devices like Laptops which is cheaper than tethering it to your phone.
I can see the temptation of using your phone as a WiFi device for your home devices. You pay a similar premium for wired data service from ATT for similar speeds.

xrodney · Sep 1, 2015

Only one to blame here is T-mobile.
1) They over sell they bandwidth thousand times over and then came back to blame user when its slow.
2) They change terms of service on whim often even without prior notice but when you don't like it, or don't agree, you can't do a s**t because you are still locked in and if you want it terminate then you have to pay huge fine.

In our case they changed 1GB dataplan with reduced speed over limit which is fine to no data at all if you go over limit.

And for those saying to use wifi instead.... in 99% of our country there are no free WiFi
available so you must use mobile data when on the GO, and I am pretty much sure there is plenty of places outside with same problem.

atheus · Sep 1, 2015

There is No True Unlimited any more even on ISPs. So they should stop using that phrase for all time. On a broadband Internet provider you can use a couple hundred gigs before they start sending you warning letters. I can binge watch a ton of my favorite shows and movies on Netflix in HD and not go over 150 gig on Charter Communications. If your using 500 gig a month or more your either streaming 4k video or downloading a ton of files off The Pirate Bay. Mobile isn't designed for this. The Phone Networks have a right to crack down on abusers of their Networks. The abusers can and should be put out to pasture and Good Riddance. Hasta LA Vista and don't let the door hit you on the way out. (SLAM!!!)

UNLIMITED — look it up. If a company is going to start taking action against you when you go beyond a certain LIMIT, then there is a problem with the marketing. It doesn't matter what someone is downloading or why. You're starting to make the argument that certain types of internet use are more legitimate than others? Are you going to police what is ok for a home user to download/upload? What if I want to stream my life to the world 24/7 in 4k from multiple vantage points? What if I want to attempt to assemble a database of every image ever posted online for my deep learning system? I should not need to ask my ISP for permission to do this stuff on my "unlimited" connection. If it's going to be a problem for the network, then they should probably use a term other than "unlimited" in the service agreement. That's all this article is saying.

Regarding the tethering, there is absolutely no reason the mobile provider should treat data transferred to your phone differently than data transferred to your computer. As the article states, if they want to set a limit on the connection, then set a limit right out in the open where everyone can see it and agree to it, and stop pissing and moaning about people attempting to use the service they pay for in whatever manner suits their needs.

eriko · Sep 1, 2015

I find it disturbing that the ISP should govern what I use my traffice for.

If I've paid for an unlimited service, then that is it, I'm afraid. That is the agreement.

If they want to try to detect if the data is consumed by my phone, or laptop, good luck with that, I'll circumvent their 'tiered service'.

This CEO sounds like an idiot. Deal with your marketing department, and stop them making false offers. If you mean 100GB, effing say so.

Or, we'll do as we please, as you are now seeing.

Have a rotten day.

Broseph Stanley · Sep 1, 2015

Seems to me these people are going out of their way to abuse the tethering data limit and not get throttled. Heck im a cord cutter, and with the wife home, and using netflix, hulu, etc most of the day along with my gaming consoles/pc we hit av average of 1tb a month with our isp. I think what he should be more concerned with is broadening his company's network strength, and doing a bit more honest advertising. I checked there newplans, to get the phones i have with verizon, the same data plan, would cost me close to 40$ more a month than what i currently have. Sure if i bought the phone outright it would be a little cheaper, but damn was i surprised when i saw that. Same with sprints cut your bill in half nonsense. Never thought i would see the day that my verizon bill would be cheaper than tmobile or sprint.

Achoo22 · Sep 1, 2015

TMobile is abusing the fact that the sheep will turn on each other. If your carrier is failing to offer you good service for a good price, it is stupid to blame your neighbor instead of the carrier. TMobile would like you to believe that they are just barely making ends meet because 0.1% of their users are breaking the bandwidth bank and that this is the reason they can't offer you better service/better prices. It's all a smokescreen - don't fall for it.

sna · Sep 1, 2015

The real thiefs are the companies. why lie to people and call it unlimited plan ?

Just be honest and say you are allowed X GB at full speed .

or make a true unlimited plan at the right price. it all ends up in sharing the bandwidth , so build more towers and charge the right amount and dont call people thiefs.

Eric_3 · Sep 1, 2015

I think it would be just about impossible to go over 100 GB with just your cell phone. My fiancé watched youtube and Netflix non-stop on her iPhone 5 using the LTE data connection and I the most I think she ever used in a month was 75 GB.

Also, for what it's worth - Together, we've never gone over 500 GB in a month even on a 100 Mb cable internet connection where I watched Netflix and downloaded (paid) movies all the time.

Two TB is absolutely insane.

Woody87 · Sep 1, 2015

Good luck with that John. Historically, it has been bad for business to lie to your customers and then take action against them because they are being resourceful. Better to just let those 3000 alone and change policy going forward.

I have a rooted phone with unlimited data and use third party tethering apps because they work better and I have a right to do so. It doesn't make me a hacker or a thief, it means I'm a resourceful user.

BTW John... I don't think I've ever gone over five or six GB in a single billing cycle and usually average about three or four GB. I have unlimited just in case the data is there when I need it. I suspect there are a lot more like me. Maybe I'll just downgrade to the 5GB plan and keep my money you greedy bastard.

burkhartmj · Sep 1, 2015

atheus :

That's the whole point, they do provide a clear number right up front about tethering, and that number is 7GB. I've used 30-50GB of data on my phone before without even a hint of slowdown because data TO THE PHONE is unlimited. There's no reasonable justification for calling Tmo liars because their mobile phone plan isn't unlimited for devices other than mobile phones.

And yes, data to other devices should be treated differently, because the usage profile for a computer is utterly different from a phone. There's a reason ISP's have caps in the hundreds of gigabytes and STILL feel restrictive, because it's pretty easy to chew through multiple terabytes on a home network. The unlimited plan from Tmo is offered under the assertion that you're under a mobile usage profile, and their TOS spells that out very clearly. No cellular network on the planet is designed to handle usage from multiple users in the terabytes every month, that's just absurd. That's why terrestrial ISP's exist in the first place, to allow that degree of bandwidth, otherwise everything would have shifted to wireless years ago.

Since this whole thread is one big circlejerk against T-Mobile enforcing their own reasonable policies and dealing with people hacking the system I expect to get downvoted to hell, but I can't help but address some of the utter nonsense getting spouted in this thread.

JT_Parts · Sep 1, 2015

Stealing? I am a lucky T-mobile unlimited customer. I went with them because my new home is in an area that is not serviced by wired broadband and I needed a quick solution to have web access. I didn't read all the fine print about tethering and was surprised to find that I couldn't use my unlimited in an unlimited fashion. Ok. Do I feel misled? Yes. Do I feel that these secret policies are tantamount to lying? Yes.

Let me get back to stealing. I work in an area that shows solid 4glte coverage on Tmobiles coverage map. Somehow all around the warehousing complex here in Ontario CA there are dead spots that don't get 2G consistently, 4g is a rare treat but drops on activity, and LTE ha ha ha ha ha not a chance. Now my previous carrier the one that starts with ATT got me 4glte right at my desk. Isn't tmobile the company that says they are built on ATT's network? I can see ATT and Verizon clear and strong yet Tmobile is no where to be found and I cannot connect to ATT or Verizon. I have a cell spot at my home to aid in tmobiles clever plan to offload network traffic onto my ISP (I've moved from the no net house) and Tmobile says you can only have one connection aid. I asked if they would come out and survey the area at the office. No No No no help, no service, no concern.

The funny thing is every month I get the same bill. I must be a dullard because I keep paying them for a service they don't provide. I suppose that in truest sense I can't call them thieves because I voluntarily write the check and want to pay them for what we contracted for whereas they are being taken advantage of against their will by people exceeding unstated limits that are contractually defined. I get it now. I'm running out of carriers, hopefully we can merge a couple of them soon so that they can disregard the customer at a new level.

w0byy · Sep 1, 2015

If you're using 50gb per month on your phone, you need to get a life or get a personal hotspot.

T-Mobile CEO Angry With People Who 'Steal' From Carrier's 'Unlimited' Data Plans

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