T-Mobile CEO Angry With People Who 'Steal' From Carrier's 'Unlimited' Data Plans

[Gigel]

Sounds like someone should start suing the T-mobile for false advertising and I'm sure that limiting or banning users for using their internet on their phone is not that legal, they sign a contract somewhere

 

[Skydog70]

If I'm not mistaken, Verizon lost a class-action lawsuit by throttling cell phone users after an undisclosed amount of usage on their "unlimited plan."

I'm an AT&T user who was grandfathered in on an old unlimited plan that was no longer offered.

During March Madness one year, I watched a few basketball games on my phone. I didn't think much about it. I had an unlimited plan after all. Once I hit 10GB, my service slowed to a crawl. I called AT&T and was told that I was in the top x% of users and they throttle data on those users. I pointed out that I had an unlimited plan, and they basically said, "tough sh*t."

It was then that I canceled the unlimited plan (which is what they wanted everyone to do anyway) and went to a 10GB plan. I was only really getting 10GB in the first place.

Essentially, it saved me some money, but negated my potential to file a suit against them. They win.

I realize this is different from the distinction of tethering vs. phone usage, but it's a good indicator of how the large cell providers operate. If any provider wants to call his customers thieves, he should look in the mirror first.

 

[JT_Parts]

There is No True Unlimited any more even on ISPs. So they should stop using that phrase for all time. On a broadband Internet provider you can use a couple hundred gigs before they start sending you warning letters. I can binge watch a ton of my favorite shows and movies on Netflix in HD and not go over 150 gig on Charter Communications. If your using 500 gig a month or more your either streaming 4k video or downloading a ton of files off The Pirate Bay. Mobile isn't designed for this. The Phone Networks have a right to crack down on abusers of their Networks. The abusers can and should be put out to pasture and Good Riddance. Hasta LA Vista and don't let the door hit you on the way out. (SLAM!!!)

UNLIMITED — look it up. If a company is going to start taking action against you when you go beyond a certain LIMIT, then there is a problem with the marketing. It doesn't matter what someone is downloading or why. You're starting to make the argument that certain types of internet use are more legitimate than others? Are you going to police what is ok for a home user to download/upload? What if I want to stream my life to the world 24/7 in 4k from multiple vantage points? What if I want to attempt to assemble a database of every image ever posted online for my deep learning system? I should not need to ask my ISP for permission to do this stuff on my "unlimited" connection. If it's going to be a problem for the network, then they should probably use a term other than "unlimited" in the service agreement. That's all this article is saying.

Regarding the tethering, there is absolutely no reason the mobile provider should treat data transferred to your phone differently than data transferred to your computer. As the article states, if they want to set a limit on the connection, then set a limit right out in the open where everyone can see it and agree to it, and stop pissing and moaning about people attempting to use the service they pay for in whatever manner suits their needs.

That's the whole point, they do provide a clear number right up front about tethering, and that number is 7GB. I've used 30-50GB of data on my phone before without even a hint of slowdown because data TO THE PHONE is unlimited. There's no reasonable justification for calling Tmo liars because their mobile phone plan isn't unlimited for devices other than mobile phones.

And yes, data to other devices should be treated differently, because the usage profile for a computer is utterly different from a phone. There's a reason ISP's have caps in the hundreds of gigabytes and STILL feel restrictive, because it's pretty easy to chew through multiple terabytes on a home network. The unlimited plan from Tmo is offered under the assertion that you're under a mobile usage profile, and their TOS spells that out very clearly. No cellular network on the planet is designed to handle usage from multiple users in the terabytes every month, that's just absurd. That's why terrestrial ISP's exist in the first place, to allow that degree of bandwidth, otherwise everything would have shifted to wireless years ago.

Since this whole thread is one big circlejerk against T-Mobile enforcing their own reasonable policies and dealing with people hacking the system I expect to get downvoted to hell, but I can't help but address some of the utter nonsense getting spouted in this thread.

All true IMO. However there is true and there is right and there is a question of intent here. The continued and pervasive use of the term unlimited creates an expectation in the consumers mind. Limiting that in the contract language is legal but is it the right thing to do? Is a company that plays this sort of now you see it, now you don't game trustworthy? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Caveat Emptor! How does one gauge the necessary depth of knowledge required to sign up for a mobile plan, should the minimum be a super user with extensive network familiarity? The real problem is that all the major carriers have issues ranging from the disingenuous representations of plan attributes e.g., "unlimited" to dishonest billing practices. Remember the ATT 3 rd party billing fiasco a few years back? Is Tmobiles intent to create the belief that the purchaser of their service will receive truly unlimited data? I think so. Why use that term at all if not? You may not agree. However, any case in which the deliberate intent is to manifest a belief that is inherently false, I'm sure we can all agree is bad business.

 

[JT_Parts]

John Leger looks like a crook...........to me

And on his salary you'd think he could afford a decent hair cut.

 

[killerb255]

There are a few things wrong with both sides' arguments here:

1) People don't like to be called criminals (regardless of whether or not their actions skirt such a line). Call a pirate a pirate, and they'll take exception to it. Call someone who meant no harm, but are considered a pirate a pirate and they'll take exception to it. The reaction is all the same.

2) The way T-Mobile intended this to work is that data usage on a mobile phone would be unlimited, but if it's tethered to another device, it would be limited to 7 GB. I personally haven't read their ToS, but others are saying that their ToS clearly states this. So if T-Mobile is clear about this, then there's no real deception on their part. However, if the advertisements remain vague about this, but the tethering caveat is well-hidden in fine print, then one can argue some level of deception.

3) There are those that know what they're trying to do: intentionally circumventing the tethering data limitation with the clear and concise goal of avoiding additional charges. If people that fit under this profile are turning around and complaining about #2 (if T-Mobile is transparent) under the argument that they were NOT transparent, then the deception is coming from said customer. Is it theft? Depends on your definition. Is it fraud? I think that would be a more accurate term*. Is it abuse? That would be even more accurate**. However, see #1 above about people not liking to be called criminals (or really any negative term that would damage their self-image for that matter) and that would easily explain the downvotes in this comment.

4) There is an old saying: "Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile." T-Mobile needed to plan for something like this--security, PR, etc. Again, see #1 about calling people criminals, regardless of whether or not they fit the profile, and why this is not a good idea from a PR perspective***.

=========================

*: An example of fraud would be purchasing a PlayStation 4 or an XBox One, and then after the warranty expires, purchase a new PS4 or XBone, packaging up the first console in the second console's box, and taking advantage of the second console's warranty to replace the first one. It's a method of deception that may be harmless to us consumers (especially since we see companies as filthy rich and can afford losses without flinching, and whether or that that's actually true doesn't matter at all to us), but in reality, is a criminal offense. In this case, we would be criminals whether we want to hear it or not.

**: An example of abuse of good-will would be going to an all-you-can-eat buffet (as someone previously pointed out), and sneaking the food out of the restaurant to fill up their refrigerator, freezer, etc. in lieu of grocery shopping. Yes, they advertised "all-you-can-eat," but I don't think they can stay in business if everyone decided to sneak buffet food out and have that feed a family of 5 for 2-3 weeks.

 

[sna]

If you're using 50gb per month on your phone, you need to get a life or get a personal hotspot.

people dont use it on phone only , they use the phone as a modem where wifi is not available.

 

[nametaken]

Im a long time Verizon user. I have had my "Unlimited Data" from early on and then I began to hear wispers of doing away with Unlimited plans, so I paid full price for my next phone and kept my plan. I have been called several times by Verizon people offering to help me save money by changing my plan, I do use my phone as a wifi hotspot to my laptop sometimes. One month I downloaded a bunch of movies to my laptop and I also did a fair amount of streaming movies on my phone ( Samsung Note 3), for one month I had amassed 91gb of data ! I have had several days since then of 45gb ,32gb and I have never been warned or threatened.. I have 2.225gb total used and cycle ends 9/20/2015 , So I only use my Data when Im away from home and I want to watch a movie. I have read that my speeds are automatically throttled back after I reach a certain point, but I cant say I've noticed this yet. Go Verizon !

 

[hipshot]

Just a quick comment. There seems to be a lot of miss information here.
In fact the article writer clearly does not understand tethering or mobile networks. Which is I suppose not unusual for a pc blog.

I'm a t mobile customer. There is no data cap on your usage of the service for data on the ph period.
What is capped and limited is tethered service [attaching a latop etc via wif tether or usb to your phone service].

Tmob provide a 5gb limit at 4g for you when you want to use your ph as a wifi router basically. That is provided at no charge. But the service is limited unless you upgrade and want more tethered data ( I us it on road trips with kids or work when I have no wifi connection to grab email etc).

People are circumventing the 5gb monthly cap for tethering. That is what he is upset about. I understand that . It causes congestion in the area where these guys operate their 2TB data runs.

To recap TMOB data plans for phone based data [not tethered devices] is uncapped. I'm very happy with their service now that I have an LTE capable phone. Prior to that I had very spotty, slow service, and was considering shifting service providers.

 

[hipshot]

If I'm not mistaken, Verizon lost a class-action lawsuit by throttling cell phone users after an undisclosed amount of usage on their "unlimited plan."

I'm an AT&T user who was grandfathered in on an old unlimited plan that was no longer offered.

During March Madness one year, I watched a few basketball games on my phone. I didn't think much about it. I had an unlimited plan after all. Once I hit 10GB, my service slowed to a crawl. I called AT&T and was told that I was in the top x% of users and they throttle data on those users. I pointed out that I had an unlimited plan, and they basically said, "tough sh*t."

It was then that I canceled the unlimited plan (which is what they wanted everyone to do anyway) and went to a 10GB plan. I was only really getting 10GB in the first place.

Essentially, it saved me some money, but negated my potential to file a suit against them. They win.

I realize this is different from the distinction of tethering vs. phone usage, but it's a good indicator of how the large cell providers operate. If any provider wants to call his customers thieves, he should look in the mirror first.

I think you miss the point. T Mobile is not the bad guy here. Its all very clear in teh service offering when you sign up unlike ATT and the others.

 

[Christopher1]

Thieves, abusers, hackers... that is a lot of name calling for people who pay for a service that is advertised as being "unlimited". I actually think that people who are using the service to their full advantage that they are paying actually intelligent and smart people. There is nothing wrong in trying to save money. It is T-Mobile that is in the wrong - selling an unlimited service that is not actually unlimited.

Time for a federal class action lawsuit against T-Mobile and these other companies. Unlimited is dictionary defined as exactly that: WITH NO LIMITATIONS.
Time for them to live up to those promises or admit that their services are NOT truly unlimited and stop false advertising.

 

[ColoradoBengal]

If those people using their "unlimited" plans as truly unlimited can be classified as "thieves", then surely this guy can be classified as a "liar".

 

[Christopher1]

I think it would be just about impossible to go over 100 GB with just your cell phone. My fiancé watched youtube and Netflix non-stop on her iPhone 5 using the LTE data connection and I the most I think she ever used in a month was 75 GB.

Also, for what it's worth - Together, we've never gone over 500 GB in a month even on a 100 Mb cable internet connection where I watched Netflix and downloaded (paid) movies all the time.

Two TB is absolutely insane.

No, it is not 'absolutely insane' because games are huge today. 1-2GB's is the SMALLEST I have seen for a game recently and 10-20 is more common.

 

[Christopher1]

I think you miss the point. T Mobile is not the bad guy here. Its all very clear in teh service offering when you sign up unlike ATT and the others.

I think you miss the point: It is still FALSE ADVERTISING that numerous companies in the past were SHUT DOWN over. Perhaps it is time to start doing that again!

 

[dgingeri]

"In other words, you may watch Netflix non-stop on your phone the whole month, but you can only watch 7 GB's worth (a few movies) when the phone is tethered to your laptop."

No, no, no. That's not how it works. I am a customer of T-mobile, and I know how their plans work.

The 7GB plan gives the user 7GB at full speed, tethered or not, and once the 7GB limit exceeded, the speed is throttled down, but the total data is unlimited. There is NO plan that allows for unlimited full speed data. The data is full speed up to the limit you pay for, and slower after that.

What's he's complaining about is that some people are using some sort of program that cloaks their traffic from the trackers, allowing them to exceed the limit for full speed data and never get throttled. That is getting more full speed data than they paid for. That is stealing.

In addition, this abuse of the system is slowing down the performance for the rest of us. They have to pay for an internet connection to each cell tower, and the data bandwidth is limited to each tower. When there are many people who live or work close to a tower, and one person is transferring tons of data at full speed, it limits the performance for everyone else on that tower, even those who use very little data.

I've heard people complain "why don't they just get faster connections to the towers?" Well, for one, that takes MONEY. To do that, they have to raise prices or employ fewer people. It's going to hurt the service one way or another. It's not like T-mobile is raking in the dough, or any other mobile service for that matter. Sure, they make millions, but when you figure in how much they make per person, it's not that much over what those people make. The percentage of profit is rather low, and any increase in costs is going to hurt.

 

[burkhartmj]

All true IMO. However there is true and there is right and there is a question of intent here. The continued and pervasive use of the term unlimited creates an expectation in the consumers mind. Limiting that in the contract language is legal but is it the right thing to do? Is a company that plays this sort of now you see it, now you don't game trustworthy? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Caveat Emptor! How does one gauge the necessary depth of knowledge required to sign up for a mobile plan, should the minimum be a super user with extensive network familiarity? The real problem is that all the major carriers have issues ranging from the disingenuous representations of plan attributes e.g., "unlimited" to dishonest billing practices. Remember the ATT 3 rd party billing fiasco a few years back? Is Tmobiles intent to create the belief that the purchaser of their service will receive truly unlimited data? I think so. Why use that term at all if not? You may not agree. However, any case in which the deliberate intent is to manifest a belief that is inherently false, I'm sure we can all agree is bad business.

It states at least twice on the sign up page itself the 7GB tethering limit. It's not in a hidden menu or a flyout or expansion or anything, it's plainly on there multiple times. I don't know how much more knowledge or disclosure you're looking for. Do you want it to grey out the page and start flashing in huge red letters that there's only 7GB of tethering? Because that's the only way it'd be more obvious. The only knowledge you need is basic reading comprehension. It also clearly states on the same page that unlimited is "for smartphone use only."

Most people complaining in this thread likely don't have T-Mobile, and almost just as likely probably haven't even bothered looking at the signup page to see how clear the language is. They're just looking for another reason to complain and act like victims of "the man."

Edit: cutting out nested quotes

 

[Sc0rpio]

T-Mobile and it's CEO should receive an unlimited FINE for false representation, hopefully that will reset their idiotic view on what's unlimited. it's not just T-Mobile, but all carriers that advertise unlimited that should receive that same FINE.

 

[dgingeri]

I think you miss the point. T Mobile is not the bad guy here. Its all very clear in teh service offering when you sign up unlike ATT and the others.

I think you miss the point: It is still FALSE ADVERTISING that numerous companies in the past were SHUT DOWN over. Perhaps it is time to start doing that again!

It's NOT false advertising. The system is that a certain amount of data is at full speed, and subsequent data is throttled down. What they're "stealing" is data at full speed. They're cloaking their transfers so that the trackers don't see it, and get a lot more data at full speed than they paid for. THAT'S what's being stolen. That's NOT false advertising.

 

[jdwii]

I say take them to court then and sue them. If its not unlimited it shouldn't be marketed towards that.

 

[jdwii]

I'm a T-Mobile customer and it states pretty blatantly that you only have so much tethering data allowed.

I've never had a problem with them enforcing traditional caps - and have used 25GB+ during some of my cross country - streaming music and YouTube audio while driving. For what you pay, you get a pretty good deal with pretty much unlimited everything - so long as you are in an area with good service.

I'm confused that people are legitimately of the mindset "Unlimited means unlimited everything, even if on your account page it shows that you have a 7GB limit for tethering and shows how much of it you've used."

Tethering isn't some magic internet land its still the internet. Tethering should technically not be charged extra as the device can easily do it out of the box. FCC needs to crack down on these companies. If anything T-mobile could throttle speeds of customers who use over a certain amount each month.

 

[Orumus]

So you have a problem with people using the service you promote? To bad. I hope these people sue the heck out of these lying carriers. Here is an idea, stop calling it unlimited when it is OBVIOUSLY limited. You are the cheat here Mr. Legere.

 

[atheus]

"In other words, you may watch Netflix non-stop on your phone the whole month, but you can only watch 7 GB's worth (a few movies) when the phone is tethered to your laptop."

No, no, no. That's not how it works. I am a customer of T-mobile, and I know how their plans work.

The 7GB plan gives the user 7GB at full speed, tethered or not, and once the 7GB limit exceeded, the speed is throttled down, but the total data is unlimited. There is NO plan that allows for unlimited full speed data. The data is full speed up to the limit you pay for, and slower after that.

Nope. That clearly says Unlimited as in unlimited, not 7GB of full-speed data followed by some sort of reduced transfer speed. However, underneath that in very tiny print it says
"*Unlimited 4G LTE customers who use more than 21 GB of data in a bill cycle will have their data usage de-prioritized compared to other customers for that bill cycle at locations and times when competing network demands occur, resulting in relatively slower speeds. See t-mobile.com/OpenInternet for details."

In its original size:

This means that your connection should still run at full speed even after 21 GB so long as other users in the area will not be affected by your usage. This does not give T-Mobile the right to bitch about anyone using their Unlimited connection to their heart's content.

Aside from that, what gives them the right to say how you can use your bandwidth? Their attempt to restrict tethering is clearly not acceptable. If it were, does that mean that you're not allowed to pass images or movies downloaded to your phone over your local network to your computer? How long does the data need to sit inside your phone before you're allowed to transfer it to another device? It's a slippery slope to allow an internet provider to say what you can and can not do with your internet connection beyond just a straight monthly cap. If they're not willing to provide more than X gigabytes, then don't offer to do so.

 

[Pei-chen]

Lots of ugly comments on this thread. I guess people lose their etiquette when it comes to technology. I certainly hope they don't behave this way in real life.

When your friend told you everything I have is yours doesn't mean you got to sleep with his girlfriend. When Olive Garden say unlimited breadsticks doesn't mean you pack your lunchbox full of them. When the wedding invitation says +1 doesn't mean you take the groom's ex to the wedding.

T-Mobile's unlimited data is unlimited within reason. If you are abusing it to the point you need to have an app hiding your usage you are abusing it.

 

[burkhartmj]

"In other words, you may watch Netflix non-stop on your phone the whole month, but you can only watch 7 GB's worth (a few movies) when the phone is tethered to your laptop."

No, no, no. That's not how it works. I am a customer of T-mobile, and I know how their plans work.

The 7GB plan gives the user 7GB at full speed, tethered or not, and once the 7GB limit exceeded, the speed is throttled down, but the total data is unlimited. There is NO plan that allows for unlimited full speed data. The data is full speed up to the limit you pay for, and slower after that.

Nope. That clearly says Unlimited as in unlimited, not 7GB of full-speed data followed by some sort of reduced transfer speed. However, underneath that in very tiny print it says
"*Unlimited 4G LTE customers who use more than 21 GB of data in a bill cycle will have their data usage de-prioritized compared to other customers for that bill cycle at locations and times when competing network demands occur, resulting in relatively slower speeds. See t-mobile.com/OpenInternet for details."

In its original size:

This means that your connection should still run at full speed even after 21 GB so long as other users in the area will not be affected by your usage. This does not give T-Mobile the right to bitch about anyone using their Unlimited connection to their heart's content.

Aside from that, what gives them the right to say how you can use your bandwidth? Their attempt to restrict tethering is clearly not acceptable. If it were, does that mean that you're not allowed to pass images or movies downloaded to your phone over your local network to your computer? How long does the data need to sit inside your phone before you're allowed to transfer it to another device? It's a slippery slope to allow an internet provider to say what you can and can not do with your internet connection beyond just a straight monthly cap. If they're not willing to provide more than X gigabytes, then don't offer to do so.

Your own screenshots include the 7GB tethering limit and the distinction underneath unlimited that it's only unlimited on smartphones. And what gives them the right to say how you use your bandwidth is that you agreed to it. Again, why do you think people should A] expect to use a cellular network not designed for terabytes of traffic per user as if it were a terrestrial ISP, and B] be subject to zero consequences for violating the TOS they already agreed to? This whole thing is bollocks, but no one bothers to read anything and just assumes if a company is doing it then it must be a terrible practice. If someone actually tried to sue T-Mobile over this they'd be laughed out of court, because nothing they're doing is hidden or shady in this area of their contract.

 

[atheus]

Your own screenshots include the 7GB tethering limit and the distinction underneath unlimited that it's only unlimited on smartphones. And what gives them the right to say how you use your bandwidth is that you agreed to it. Again, why do you think people should A] expect to use a cellular network not designed for terabytes of traffic per user as if it were a terrestrial ISP, and B] be subject to zero consequences for violating the TOS they already agreed to? This whole thing is bollocks, but no one bothers to read anything and just assumes if a company is doing it then it must be a terrible practice. If someone actually tried to sue T-Mobile over this they'd be laughed out of court, because nothing they're doing is hidden or shady in this area of their contract.

I did not fail to notice their 7GB tethering limit, and if you read what I said I was talking about that fairly directly. I reject the notion that it is ok for them to stipulate that your bandwidth can only be used for your phone. And no, I did not agree to it, as I am no longer a T-Mobile post-paid customer. If I did hypothetically agree to it, I would have to read the fine print which essentially contradicts the big bold writing to know what I was agreeing to. "UNLIMITED, until we choose to limit it, and only for one device."

Like I said, as far as I am concerned it is literally none of their business what happens to data packets once they reach your phone. For them to be allowed to insist that you only forward a maximum of 7GB of those packets to another device is opening the door to some rather intrusive relationships between ISP's and their customers. I am not a lawyer or an expert on the net neutrality legislation, but I sincerely hope that this will be proven illegal.

As an aside, I am a T-Mobile prepaid customer. I don't even have any data on my plan, because I live in an area that the only way I get service is through my own DSL line via wifi. If I wanted to connect to a T-Mobile tower, I'd have to drive for about an hour.

 

[mortemas]

As one or two others have already stated, most people are missing the point. OK, if there is a contractual limit on tethering data, fine, I'll allow it as a special case because it is a distinct feature. But, I never used tethering and had an "unlimited" data plan with ATT and they gave me a warning at ~3GB one particular month some years ago. The point is, it is DECEPTIVE advertising to use the word "unlimited" as your attention grabber and then, in the fine print or otherwise, LIMIT people who go "above average" in their usage of an UNLIMITED plan. "Excuse me mr jones, you've hit the limit on your unlimited data." Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? They should simply not be allowed to use the word UNLIMITED anymore in advertising because it is just not realistic to promise it in the first place. They are just using the word to get people to sign on the dotted line. If it is not unlimited, then it should not be called unlimited.