News These Blu-Ray Discs Are Guaranteed to Last 100 Years

[bit_user]

I have about that many 10-15 year old CDs and DVDs made by random brands like HP, Maxell, and Memorex. At this point, less than half of them are fully readable. The others are only partially readable, or even unusable. I had to use data recovery tools recover what data I could from them.

All of the CD-R and DVD-R discs I burned are still readable. At least as far as I've checked.

One trick, aside from selecting quality stock and storing it properly, is to burn at a lower speed. I always burned at the lowest speed my burner would allow.

My only problem is (aside from doubts about simulated disc aging), the amount of data I would like to have safely archived is big enough (several terabytes) that archival-grade discs of any kind are prohibitively expensive. I don't even want to know how many thousands of dollars that would cost.

I don't archive anything I can reasonably re-acquire and would actually miss. So, that mostly leaves select photos, videos, documents, etc. of personal or financial value, all of which are relatively small.

 

[Chung Leong]

Eh, quantum computers will have rendered conventional encryption obsolete.

No it won’t. Quantum computing is a threat to public key cryptography. Symmetric ciphers like AES aren’t vulnerable.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

IMO, one of the key things in this article is an actual quality standard. I probably haven't bought optical media for at least 10 years. Before that, I used to burn a lot of DVD-R's and it was always a game to figure out which media was the best (i.e. which brands and product lines were using Taiyo Yuden disc stock). You could buy unlabeled TY discs, which is what I usually did, but it wasn't quite as good as the stock they'd sell to some of the big brands.

I really like the idea of buying media that claims to conform and have been validated to an actual standard. Let's have no guesswork in trying to select media, please. And yes, I'm willing to pay for that.

I'm all for a consistent "Quality Standard", the question that you should be asking, is the manufacturer abiding by said "Quality Standard".

 

[sygreenblum]

A hundred years from now someone's going to ask "Does anyone remember the encryption password?" LOL

Nah, By them we'll have chips in our brains and be identified with phallus recognition software. The future will be strange place.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Pioneer's BDR-WX01DM optical disc drive and IPS-BD11J03P BD-R are compliant with the Japanese JIS X6257 standard, promise to last for a century.

These Blu-Ray Discs Are Guaranteed to Last 100 Years : Read more

Not really caring about the longevity of the disks. I still burn blu-rays and collect 4k blu-rays.
Streaming is ok in a pinch but the optical disk is still the way to go.

 

[rluker5]

Not a bad idea. It's just that most games are only available on Steam or other DRM-ridden platforms...



I have about that many 10-15 year old CDs and DVDs made by random brands like HP, Maxell, and Memorex. At this point, less than half of them are fully readable. The others are only partially readable, or even unusable. I had to use data recovery tools recover what data I could from them.

I hope archival-grade discs really are as good as the manufacturers claim them to be. Simulated testing is nice, but how accurate is it really?

It is at least safe to say that everyday discs are definitely not very reliable, as we have both discovered the hard way.

My only problem is (aside from doubts about simulated disc aging), the amount of data I would like to have safely archived is big enough (several terabytes) that archival-grade discs of any kind are prohibitively expensive. I don't even want to know how many thousands of dollars that would cost.

Per Amazon right now, about $100 per TB in the 25GB standard blu-ray player compatible m-disk format. ($56 for a spindle of 25 Verbatim)
But it will take you forever to burn them.

 

[bit_user]

the question that you should be asking, is the manufacturer abiding by said "Quality Standard".

I guess there would ideally be a certification program. Absent that, we're just stuck with 3rd party reviews, which are a poor substitute.

 

[Ogotai]

But it's not that hard to choose to digitally download a song in 10 seconds as apposed to driving to a store to buy a CD.

speak for yourself id rather drive to the store and buy that cd then download it

 

[anonymousdude]

I like DVDs because they are read-only and that's security for me. I don't see any USB drives that can be switched into a "read-only" mode at the physical-level like we used to do with the old 3.5" floppies.
I've backed-up all my games & patches & mods (& no-cd cracks, for games that I own legit disks for) on a USB-HDD, but I'd be careful to plug it into a Win-10 PC, lest MS Defender delete some of my .exe files against my will.
I used to burn mainly my patches / mods folders onto DVDs, and wasn't much worried about the actual games that were in disk image files. Now I hear that Win-10 may also scan inside ISO files. Maybe now I'll have to zip them in password-protected archives.

Problem 1: BR discs and drives are much more expensive than DVDs or even USB-HDDs.
Problem 2: They aren't easily available. Optical media has become so niche that I couldn't find a new one to buy anywhere in the local markets, and would have to order one online from far away at higher prices than just buying a used old PC that has a throwaway DVD-RW drive in it.

They make flash drives with a physical write protect switch. The ones I use at work are made by Kanguru. I'm sure there are other companies that make them too.

Also the switch on a floppy isn't infallible. All it does is instruct the drive to not write to it. But technically speaking a drive with compromised firmware could still write to it. It was just really unlikely.

 

[dimar]

Where's the 100TB holographic disc?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Where's the 100TB holographic disc?

Still in limbo as hype and nothing real.

 

[Yveske]

They make flash drives with a physical write protect switch. The ones I use at work are made by Kanguru. I'm sure there are other companies that make them too.

Have a look it this NVME to USB case
https://www.conrad.be/nl/p/icy-box-...-m-2-pcie-nvme-ssd-usb-3-2-gen-2-2340312.html

 

[newtechldtech]

Mid-90's, the install size of Quake I was under 100MB. That included the Nine Inch Nails audio, artwork, user manual with screenshots, etc.
Today, a game can take up to 100GB.

1,000 times larger, in 30 years.

Actually in mid 90's games were already on multi CDs like Wing commander 3 released 1994 and was on 4 CDROMS. in mid 90's "movies games" were around .

 

[newtechldtech]

I like DVDs because they are read-only and that's security for me. I don't see any USB drives that can be switched into a "read-only" mode at the physical-level like we used to do with the old 3.5" floppies.
I've backed-up all my games & patches & mods (& no-cd cracks, for games that I own legit disks for) on a USB-HDD, but I'd be careful to plug it into a Win-10 PC, lest MS Defender delete some of my .exe files against my will.
I used to burn mainly my patches / mods folders onto DVDs, and wasn't much worried about the actual games that were in disk image files. Now I hear that Win-10 may also scan inside ISO files. Maybe now I'll have to zip them in password-protected archives.

Problem 1: BR discs and drives are much more expensive than DVDs or even USB-HDDs.
Problem 2: They aren't easily available. Optical media has become so niche that I couldn't find a new one to buy anywhere in the local markets, and would have to order one online from far away at higher prices than just buying a used old PC that has a throwaway DVD-RW drive in it.

Flash USB with "lock write protection switch" are around.

 

[bit_user]

Actually in mid 90's games were already on multi CDs like Wing commander 3 released 1994 and was on 4 CDROMS. in mid 90's "movies games" were around .

LOL, I avoided FMV-heavy games like the plague. 352x240 resolution MPEG clips with B-grade actors, at best. Those corny cut scenes just slowed down gameplay.

IIRC, Wing Commander 1 & 2 were good, though. My friends and I even adopted some of the Kilrathi insults.

​

Anyway, I think the point @USAFRet was making was about install size, and you definitely didn't install all those FMV cut scenes on your HDD!

 

[gg83]

"we can only wonder whether someone will still be manufacturing optical disc drives some 100+ years down the road and if there will still be PCs that can connect to them?"

Pentagon is still using 8" floppy from 50 years ago today. There are also many punched card machines still working. Microfiche was invented 90+ years ago and many, many libraries still have them to read old newspapers and periodicals. National Archive certainly can still play wax cylinders from 19th century.

How old is this guy? Here is something a hipster should even get of the meaning perspective. Vinyl was commercialized just over 100 years ago.

But everything is advancing faster now than 100 years ago. I'm sure government agencies will use br as long as they can though.

 

[dalek1234]

Whatever, Pioneer.

Few decades ago, I was told by one of the CD-R manufacturers that their disks would last for 150 years. Less than 10 years later, the disks started to show blotches with missing die. Parts of the disks were completely see-through. For the most part, those CDs became unplayable. They were never exposed to direct sun or to heat.

How did Pioneer test them for 100 years to verify the claim? Instead of their DVDs, I'd like to buy their Time Machine.

 

[Soaptrail]

Did you buy LTH BD-R discs or regular BD-R discs.

There's a BIG difference between LTH and regular BD-R discs, that includes the price per disc.

LTH but i was not aware of any differences between quality. But based on your question i am guessing there are. I know i did check every disc at the time of burning them so they failed 6-12 months after creating them.

 

[Chung Leong]

Nah, By them we'll have chips in our brains and be identified with phallus recognition software. The future will be strange place.

You're an optimist, sir. I think a hundred years from now people will try to decrypt the files with a sports drink. "Brawndo, it's got what discs crave!"

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

LTH but i was not aware of any differences between quality. But based on your question i am guessing there are. I know i did check every disc at the time of burning them so they failed 6-12 months after creating them.

LTH was a marketing effort by older Blank Disc manufacturers to use the old "Organic Dyes" used in CD-R/DVD±R's and not the new standardized "In-Organic Dyes" used in BD-R's & Archival Discs.

That's why they didn't last.

Modern Blu-Ray & Archival Disc use "In-Organic Dyes", that's why they have a longer shelf life.

Sony & Panasonic learned from previous mistakes and standardized on better, longer lasting formulations.

LTH was created by old-guard Blank-Disc manufacturers who tried to make a buck and tried to fool people with the cheap price.
If you paid attention to the details, everybody who cared about longevity avoided LTH like the plague.

HTL (high to low)

"Normal" BD-R discs use a composite (or, in the case of BD-RE, a phase-changing alloy) that decreases its reflectivity on recording, i.e. "High To Low".[30] Sony, for example, uses an inorganic[31] composite that splits into two laminar components with low reflectivity.[32] Composites used may include BiN, Ge3N4, and Pd-doped tellurium suboxide.[33] A pair of layers with copper alloy and silicon that combines on recording may alternatively be used.[34] Similar to CD-RW and DVD-RW, a phase transition alloy (often GeSbTe or InAgTeSb; copper silicate (CuSi) or other alloys can also be used, like Verbatim's proprietary MABL)[35][34][36] is used for BD-RE discs. Melting the material with a very high power beam turns it into an amorphous state with low reflectivity, while heating at a lower power erases it back to a crystalline state with high reflectivity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_recordable

BD-R LTH (low to high)

BD-R LTH is a write-once Blu-ray Disc format that features an organic dye recording layer. "Low To High" refers to the reflectivity changing from low to high during the burning process, which is the opposite of normal Blu-rays, whose reflectivity changes from high to low during writing. The advantage of BD-R LTH is it can protect a manufacturer's investment in DVD-R/CD-R manufacturing equipment because it does not require investing in new production lines and manufacturing equipment. Instead, the manufacturer only needs to modify current equipment. This is expected to lower the cost of disc manufacturing.[43]

Old Blu-ray players and recorders cannot utilize BD-R LTH; however, a firmware upgrade can enable devices to access BD-R LTH. Panasonic released such a firmware update in November 2007 for its DMR-BW200, DMR-BR100 and MR-BW900/BW800/BW700 models.[44] Pioneer was expected to ship the first LTH BD drives in Spring 2008.[45] Sony upgraded the PlayStation 3 firmware enabling BD-R LTH reading in March, 2008.[46]

In 2011, France's Ministry of Culture and Communication conducted a study on the suitability of data archival of LTH (low to high) discs compared to HTL (high to low) discs. The data they collected indicated that the overall quality of LTH discs is worse than HTL discs.

 

[bit_user]

Sony & Panasonic learned from previous mistakes and standardized on better, longer lasting formulations.

LTH was created by old-guard Blank-Disc manufacturers

Hmm... Taiyo Yuden used to make the best DVD-Rs, back in the day. Are they still a player, these days? If so, any idea how their BD-R media ranks?

 

[ThatMouse]

How are you going to maintain multiple backups of the "bits" in a way less environmentally impactful than a small plastic disk ?

There's no such thing as digital archival storage. The point is you need to constantly be checking the backups are valid or it's the same as having no backup at all. I would not even trust my home photos/movies on bluray. Most businesses just keep it on hard drives and SSD, and have multiple back-ups. Major companies have searchable archives. Public Records are this way too. It's all online and searchable. Otherwise it's just deleted, why keep it around if it's not being used for anything.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Hmm... Taiyo Yuden used to make the best DVD-Rs, back in the day. Are they still a player, these days? If so, any idea how their BD-R media ranks?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiyo_Yuden

On June 11, 2015, Taiyo Yuden announced that it will withdraw from the recording media business, including CDs, DVDs, BDs, at the end of 2015.[6] The same day, START Lab Inc. announced that it will discontinue selling optical discs at the end of February 2016.

They quit

 

[bit_user]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiyo_Yuden

They quit

Tragic. TY never failed me.

 

[Co BIY]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiyo_Yuden

They quit

They sold out. To a Taiwanese company - CMC and the tech lives on.

CMC Pro - "Powered by TY Technology"