Time Warner, Embarq Hopes to Kill Little ISP

[pocketdrummer]

[citation][nom]mav0100[/nom]To burn you further - if you acknowledge that this is an industry that requires "city permits" (read: their government franchise), then you clearly acknowledge that they ARE a utility, as only utilities require a franchise in the first place. Television may have been considered a luxury in the 1950's, but today, it is not - hence why the FCC exists, and hence why they have the emergency broadcast system tests all the time smart guy.What you fail to differentiate on is that electricity and water are utilities that even welfare recipients need to survive, but things like cable, telephone and internet, are not needed to survive, but are still utilities just the same - hence the reason why welfare doesn't pay for them - yet. At some point I'm sure it will, and then I'll begin to wonder why I work for a living...[/citation]


Welfare needs to go. Or at least be better regulated. People are having kids just to collect a check... they should cap them off at 2 kids. Past that, they're just irresponsible.

 

[Tindytim]

[citation][nom]pocketdrummer[/nom]Welfare needs to go. Or at least be better regulated. People are having kids just to collect a check... they should cap them off at 2 kids. Past that, they're just irresponsible.[/citation]
What about rape victims that have triplets?

 

[rdawise]

[citation][nom]Tindytim[/nom]What about rape victims that have triplets?[/citation]
Or some who has triplets period. When did we become China in capping child birth? Welfare does need to be reformed, but unforunately the need and use is there.

But thats another subject...

I'm not going jump on The Schnoz because like it or not he has a point, but lets look at how the money for this project arose. They raised the maney through bonds issued by the city. For those who you that don't know a bond is basically (but not exactly) a loan. The poster who commented about these companies having to answer to stockholders, well the same if not more holds true for bonds. With a stock, if the company goes bankrupt, your stock is worthless. WIth bonds, if a company goes under, you get a recovery. The city is still responsible for paying the bonds back. Anyway more to the point, it took millions of dollars tomake this work in a small city (i live in NC, Wilson is small), think how much it would cost in a big city. It would be hard to raise that money through bonds is my point. Taxes would have to be raised with don't go over well.

In the end TW and Embarq arguement is the downfall of their case. We cannot compete with a company that makes product at cost? This is not the case. You can innovate. Expand your market, how many rural areas are limited to dial or DSL. The money you are so afraid of losing could e put to use to extand your arms. More customers who can't have access to a fibre network.

On another note, anyone here live in Greensboro, NC. Does it seem like your TWC internet and cable have gotten slower?

 

[Guest]

vaguedreams,

You have it completely backwards. No government can ever compete with a well run, well intentioned private sector entity. There are various ways to ensure a level playing field. On a level playing field, a private company will always be far more efficient than the government just because of the bureaucracy.

While I have concerns about the government getting into private business, TWC and its predecessors have been acting as a monopoly for DECADES!! They show no signs of being well intentioned, benevolent monopolists, so competition must come from somewhere. Even if taxes are involved, if the people of any area were so fed up with TWC or similar providers to vote for more taxes to support the effort, then so be it. As long as there is transparency and a way to ensure the market remains open, it should result in a better deal for customers.

Schnoz,

Same goes to you. If this bill said franchise agreements have to go as part of the bargain then it should be a good thing. Franchise agreements are part of the problem now and should be outlawed. Until the TWC monopolies are broken up everywhere, there needs to be much more done to bring real competition. If TWC hadn't been throwing up roadblocks to competition they wouldn't still be a monopoly after all this time.

And they sure as hell wouldn't be trying to impose a 40GB usage cap ripoff scheme!!!

 

[anamaniac]

[citation][nom]Monopoly[/nom]Something is terribly wrong when the government (terrible economic efficiency) can compete with you.[/citation]

Damn boy!
You deserve a whole box of cookies for that comment!
Have my children!

 

[marsax73]

I say good for the town of Wilson. What Greenlight has going for it is the fact they are dealing with a finite area. TWC is a huge corporation with lots of overhead, execs that makes millions and spans a huge area. Back in the days of 56K, I loved having the choice of which ISP I connected to. Being local, I always got a faster connection than going thru a major corp. Plus when something went wrong, they were in the same city (so no dealing with overseas technical support).

 

[cableguy414]

This article is interesting. I live in Cornelius, NC (just north of Charlotte), and 3 towns here (Mooresville, Cornelius and Davidson (with some parts of Huntersville, but not all)) created their own cable company called "M-I Connection". However TWC isn't trying to run them out of business. Probably because their services aren't any better or cheaper than TWC's.

Obviously Greenlight has much better service and prices so they must be destroyed. I wish they would come here, I ended up going with AT&T for Internet and phone and DirectTV.

 

[dark_lord69]

"Bottom line, these companies are using your state lawmakers to protect monopolies. It was wrong in 2007 when a similar bill died in the house and it’s wrong today."

Right on!
Some day these greedy f*cks will pay for thier crimes against us all!

 

[jabliese]

Lots and lots of misunderstanding of what took place here. I haven't researched Greenlight itself, but do work for a city that has looked at doing something similar. So, let me explain a little how this sort of thing happens.

First, companies in the city look around and see crappy internet everywhere. Companies cannot get outstanding internet service for any price. Companies end up calling councilmen to complain about the lack of any outstanding internet service anywhere. Councilmen talk to the cities geeks, and ask, "What is outstanding internet service?" Geeks come up with a basic outline, probably a main fiber ring around the city, etc. Councilman calls local internet monopoly, and ask, "Hey, are you going to be doing this anytime soon?" Local monopoly says, "Yes, but not here, you guys are too small." Repeat for however many local monopolies supply internet service.

Meanwhile, geeks, already knowing what the big companies are going to say, since they have been following fiber rollouts very closely, start looking for options. When the councilmen get tired of the same old run around from different people, they come back to the geeks, and say, "I know this is important, because we do not want companies to leave because of our crappy internet, but there does not seem to be anything we can do about it." Geek says, "Oh really? Have you considered building our own fiber network?" Councilman says, "You can do that?" Geek smiles inside, and says, "No, but here's what other cities are doing." Councilman exclaims, "Wow, not only would that outstanding internet keep companies here, but we could sell it as a fantastic reason for more companies to move here!" Geek nods.

And that is your basic definition for a public utility, something that business/residents in an area very much wants, but established companies do not want to provide. As long as this is debated honestly, TWC is going to fail miserably, because their answer to the problem of outstanding internet is tiered service more restrictive than their current offering.

It is also much more likely that funds from the internet service end up boosting the tax revenue of Wilson than the other way around, but that is another lesson for another day.

 

[xeensd]

Go Greenlight.... I think antitrust laws should be brought to bear on TWC.

 

[Guest]

Those questioning whether the community should run cable/internet/phone services are missing the point. TWC and Embarq had the opportunity to upgrade at the communities request and could have worked out a solution with them.

Another point the cost for the community to offer the services should and will always be higher than what TWC and Embarq should be able to offer. TWC and Embarq have the economies of scale on their side. The cost to run and maintain the cabling will decrease with the amount of territory covered. TWC will also have a better cost for labor and better negotiating power with content providers due to the number of subscribers.

Greenlight is showing everyone where cable prices should start not end. TWC and Embarq should be able to turn a nice profit at the same prices, if not then they screwed up.

 

[scryer_360]

Good god. The people of North Carolina wanted faster Internet service and TWC and Embarg didn't offer it so someone set up their own service. And now TWC complains that they weren't given the right to take it to the customers more?

It seems all we hear is bad news about TWC, but then again, it doesn't seem they are doing anything right either. Seriously, Time Warner, tell us one good new move you've made as a company this year. First when you try and stick it to your customers in markets where you have a monopoly, you complain that we didn't like that. Then you retaliate against those customers by pulling DOCSIS 3.0. NOW when a town decided to offer better service than you can provide (or will provide, at that), you claim YOU are the victim?

Time Warner Cable really does want to be the most hated company in America. There is no other way around it.

 

[grhomes]

I have lived in Wilson, NC for 20 years, and first may I say I am thrilled to see this article on Tom's. I started reading Tom's on my Win98 dial-up more than 10 years ago if that tells you anything. Second, as soon as I heard about the ftth that COW (city of wilson) was rolling out, I immediately hopped on to that bandwagon. Having 10mbps down AND up is something I just could not pass up, especially with the digital cable and free long distance I get with Greenlight. It is absolutely nuts! We went from paying close to ~$250+ a month on phone, internet, and TV between Embarq, another local isp with 512kbps dsl, and Time-is-up Warner. Now we pay Greenlight around $175 for better digital cable, internet that is 20x faster, and free long distance (where before if I called another area code it would set me back a pretty penny). I will say that Greenlight has had a tough time getting people to join, but that is simply because for some folks in this small town, it is too much hassle to change their current tv/internet, and they probably wouldn't recognize the benefits anyway. I am praying to God that that bill doesn't pass, if for no other reason because it would put my city in a financial hole we couldn't dream climbing out of. If any of you reading this could take the time to look at Brian's blog, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Hanin33]

ppl that have issue with a govt entity running a business need to stop taking their water from that same govt entity. for that matter their sewer and trash services as well. if private business is unable or unwilling to provide services demanded by communities then they are free to implement their own services to meet their needs. there is no inherent protection of private business to profit or be allowed to profit in any situation in capitalism so this argument is invalid. bring on any operations that will lower costs for the consumer. those that would whine about tax payer money being used should move to a place that meets their needs and their spending beliefs.

 

[ehenry818]

I currently Reside in NJ. We have no choices of highspeed providers. Mostly in New Jersey its Crapcast, some areas have Opt Online.
The nice thing now is FIOS is comming into many parts of NJ.

I hope TWC and Embarq lose many of there customers due to greed and this Nonesence. I find it funny, usually its the small guys who have a hard time competing with the big corporations. Tables are turned hahahaha

I hope more large corps come crashing down

 

[Guest]

It is an open platform, which BTW steals many of Microsofts patents. I'm sure Microsoft would try to stop Linux if they thought they could.

Schnoz, you sir are idior. First off, Linux does NOT steal many of MS patents. MS has stolen way, WAY more from Unix operating systems than Linux (or ANY Unix variant) has ever taken from MS. If they didn't, their Windows PCs would MS "claimed" that Linux infringed on its patents years back and has never provided any proof or it. So, stop talking out of your ass. Secondly, for-profit companies CAN compete with non-profit companies. Why do you use FedEx or UPS over the postal service for sending packages ? Obviously, quite a lot of people think those companies provide MORE value than the USPS for the same service. Now, I'm not necessarily in favor of the government providing this service. However, I am strongly against the monopolies that these damn cable companies have had for too long. What should really happen is this. The towns should own the lines and lease them out to MULTIPLE companies to provide service.

 

[The Schnoz]

[citation][nom]kowrip[/nom]It is an open platform, which BTW steals many of Microsofts patents. I'm sure Microsoft would try to stop Linux if they thought they could. Schnoz, you sir are idior. First off, Linux does NOT steal many of MS patents. MS has stolen way, WAY more from Unix operating systems than Linux (or ANY Unix variant) has ever taken from MS. If they didn't, their Windows PCs would MS "claimed" that Linux infringed on its patents years back and has never provided any proof or it. So, stop talking out of your ass. Secondly, for-profit companies CAN compete with non-profit companies. Why do you use FedEx or UPS over the postal service for sending packages ? Obviously, quite a lot of people think those companies provide MORE value than the USPS for the same service. Now, I'm not necessarily in favor of the government providing this service. However, I am strongly against the monopolies that these damn cable companies have had for too long. What should really happen is this. The towns should own the lines and lease them out to MULTIPLE companies to provide service.[/citation]
MS helped the evolution of Unix, did they take from Unix, yes, but they also helped create the Unix that later became Linux. You saying that Linux didn't steal from Microsoft because Microsoft stole from unix is illogical. They also could prove that Linux stole from them, which is why TomTom gave in to Microsofts lawsuit. Not all copies of Linux infringe on Microsofts patents either since their our thousands of variants of Linux customized for the hardware it is used for. Also Microsoft couldn't sue anyone inparticular since Linux is free, they can only sue the hardware manufacturers. After all, if you buy Red Hat linux or another variant you don't pay for the operating system, you pay for the customer service which is how they skip the laws. As for your argument about the USPS and FedEx/UPS, one is domestic and one is international. Also they are quite different since the USPS existed first and fedEx/UPS are merely filling a niche, not the other way around. I am not in favor of these so called monopolies (they are actually dualopolies in the town of Wilson because their is Embarq and TWC) however I am completely against the government, whether federal or local, stepping in. I find this to be unfair business practicess. In addition the townspeople have a choice of Hughes, DirecTV, Dish Network, and they can notify other companies such as AT&T, Verizon, etc. to move in. Having the government fill the void is not the only option and shouldn't even be on the table. I expected backlash for my views and I understand why you guys feel the way you do, however, I dont think you all see the bigger picture here. The government should not be in the telecommunications business. Lets say I agree its a utility like power gas and electric. Well those things don't carry information. I don't mind my government controlling my power, electric, gas, drainage, mail, but when they start controlling the information that goes in and out of my home, then I got a problem and you should too. This is a small town and a small company, but the standard this could set will change this country as we know it. It might take 10, it might take 100 years, but it will happen if we let it. Aside from being unfair business practices, which i know the courts will agree with, this is also opening pandoras box and I'm afraid the rest of the country will be as blind as you guys until it is too late.

 

[kamkal]

Once again, f*k TWC.

Put these a**holes in their places, every TWC customer should call in on the same day and cancel ALL TWC services, no if, ands or buts. Put them into the dirt where they belong!

 

[The Schnoz]

[citation][nom]salsoolo[/nom]@ The Schnoz are you TW employee?? wtf?[/citation]
No, I'm not. I have no affiliation with TWC or Embarq. I don't support them, in fact I hate both companies, but I won't let that cloud my judgment.

 

[Guest]

Time Warner is quickly moving up the ladder of the "most hated companies". Of course when you have a monopoly, you don't have to worry to much about PR do you? Competition would put them in the position of "having" to worry about PR. I have never dealt with them and I am beginning to hate them already.

 

[duzcizgi]

In my country where I was born (Turkey) if a company becomes a virtual monopoly, government is required to set up a competing company at exactly the same market, to have people have an alternative at least.
In the country I live now for the past 6 years (Ukraine) government doesn't set up such companies, but makes sure that in any open market there are at least 3 competing companies, if there aren't enough competitors, the existing licenses are revoked and government provides the service.
If you call internet as a luxury, not a utility, please try to live without your current internet connection for a week. You'll feel like electricity at your home is cut.
Internet is a utility for any business you can think of, these days. So, if the local monopoly(ies) refuse to fulfill the gap, it's normal to government or community itself to step in.
Right now, I'm using a 100 Mbit fiber channel at home, from a small ISP which works at a good margin of profit. (I know they are having a good profit, as the owner is one of my best friends.) It's 4 times cheaper than the cable operator in my region, without caps. (The local cable operator has a 40 GB/month cap with 8 Mbit maximum, 2 MBit guaranteed speed)
I don't care who owns the ISP, as long as I am not censored, tracked and I get what I pay for.
And, well, I paid for the connection set up price, which was $30 to my home, as long as I guarantee that I power their switch set up in my flat which provides internet to my neighbours.

Bottom line, I know that TWC or any company of the size can get larger bandwith backbone connections for a cheaper price than any other small size ISP can have, so per Mbit/s speed or $/bytes of transfer for them will be cheaper.

I know that, their runtime costs per subscriber is far less than what can be with a small scale company has.

Despite these facts, if they want to rape their customers, and their customers don't want to get raped, then it's normal that a competitor will arise.

From what I saw in their plans, it's still much cheaper to use a bidirectional satellite connection than their offerings. That practically isn't right.

 

[that_aznpride101]

I'm thankful living here in Tacoma where the city owns the infrastructure and we have at least 3 cable services available that are both cheaper and more reliable than Comcast.

 

[migs008]

Rip TWC and every monopolizing company!!!

AND get me faster internet!!! I don't even have cable TV only DSL because TW is charging sh*T for their bundles. The internet we paid for where we used to live was 20$ a month for 756kbps COX and TW is selling it like for 90$. EAT THEIR HEARTS OUT!!!