- Status
[citation][nom]greghome[/nom]Um.......Angry Birds?......Epic has become a lazy a$$ developer like half the world's video games industry from what I can see.Not making games for Windows because piracy is worse in that segment? Try idiots too lazy to spend some time optimising performance for different Hardware.[/citation]
Are you seriously trying to compare a simple 2D game that is as complex as solitaire to type of games epics engines are being used for? That comparison is simply retarded.
Are you seriously trying to compare a simple 2D game that is as complex as solitaire to type of games epics engines are being used for? That comparison is simply retarded.
techguy911
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Wow if this is what the the game industry thinks then we are in real trouble Pc's outnumber consoles by a huge margin.
Xbox360 and the ps3,Wii are outdated as far as speed and price value goes and beat graphics quality of even planned future consoles.
Xbox360,Wii, handhelds, piracy does not exist in their eyes, funny besides owning a computer store i do console repairs and insurance work vast majority of those consoles i see are modded.
Problems making games for the PC? WTH every hear of directX 11 stop trying to make your own custom graphic routines directx 11 is there for a reason.
Xbox360 and the ps3,Wii are outdated as far as speed and price value goes and beat graphics quality of even planned future consoles.
Xbox360,Wii, handhelds, piracy does not exist in their eyes, funny besides owning a computer store i do console repairs and insurance work vast majority of those consoles i see are modded.
Problems making games for the PC? WTH every hear of directX 11 stop trying to make your own custom graphic routines directx 11 is there for a reason.
techguy911
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Opps no edit should read:
Xbox360 and the ps3,Wii are outdated as far as speed and price value goes and the PC beats graphic quality of even planned future consoles.
Xbox360 and the ps3,Wii are outdated as far as speed and price value goes and the PC beats graphic quality of even planned future consoles.
[citation][nom]greghome[/nom]Um.......Angry Birds?......Epic has become a lazy a$$ developer like half the world's video games industry from what I can see.Not making games for Windows because piracy is worse in that segment? Try idiots too lazy to spend some time optimising performance for different Hardware.[/citation]
Angry Birds doesn't incorporate a multi-million dollar engine that have every single feature to make the state of the art game.
Angry Birds doesn't incorporate a multi-million dollar engine that have every single feature to make the state of the art game.
techguy911
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[citation][nom]ojas[/nom]Oh my god. I can't believe it. They run Samaritan on a Kepler-based flagship (which will never reach consoles) and then they say stuff like this. Lies and heresy.Burn, Epic, burn.[/citation]
How true lol Kepler will never hit consoles due to price and availability.
How true lol Kepler will never hit consoles due to price and availability.
[citation][nom]Vorador2[/nom]So they finally admited they don't count the PC as a gaming platform?Sad to see a company with so much history go for the easy money so blatantly.[/citation]
Seeing as how the demo only runs on a PC videocard I doubt that.
Seeing as how the demo only runs on a PC videocard I doubt that.
Antimatter79
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- Jul 24, 2009
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[citation][nom]ultimatum[/nom]"When you look for the best graphics available in the whole game industry today, you look at Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3"i lol'd...[/citation]
Yeah, I had to read that a few times to make sure I understood him correctly. I have definitely grown tired of seeing my wife play jaggy, upscaled, ugly textured PS3 games on the system that boasts 1080p "high definition" gaming. Ripoff.
Yeah, I had to read that a few times to make sure I understood him correctly. I have definitely grown tired of seeing my wife play jaggy, upscaled, ugly textured PS3 games on the system that boasts 1080p "high definition" gaming. Ripoff.
demonhorde665
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- Jul 13, 2008
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[citation][nom]greghome[/nom]Um.......Angry Birds?......Epic has become a lazy a$$ developer like half the world's video games industry from what I can see.Not making games for Windows because piracy is worse in that segment? Try idiots too lazy to spend some time optimising performance for different Hardware.[/citation]
while epic has petered off in actual game development , I still have to give them creds becasue they really do make damn good game engines. i'm not concerned about unreal 4 as a game at all , i'm just ready to see the next iteration of the UDK.
[citation][nom]aggroboy[/nom]Problems of PC:1. Whatever horsepower advantage PC has gets swamped under layers upon layers of compatibilities and wrappers, just to make it work with billions of driver/OS/version/hardware permutations. John Carmack himself mentioned the hoops he had to jump just for one GPU vendor.2. A stable hardware platform like PS3/X360 for many years allows for developers to heavily optimize for it. That trumps the moving target that is the PC.3. PC Piracy. Really bad. Whatever claim you make about Xbox360 piracy, at least they can move millions on that platform.4. Terrible value for money. PS3 was introduced in 2006, and only in 2008 an expensive PC can play the same games today.5. Deceptively small, disproportionately vocal and polarized market.[/citation]
Problems with what you just said:
1. john carmack only humps himself through hoops cos he insistantly programs games for open glide , an out dated POS open source API that aside from ID no one else programs for. programing for direct X 11 (or 9 or 10) is a far easier task to acomplish , i'm a game art design student , and in a team class we puled off a working game in 11 1/2 weeks with just 12 of us, that ran fine on EVERY team member's computer (which were all different in video card and general hardware.) so any one that sites this as a pc problem doesnt know jack s--t what they are talking about, or they are blowing smoke up people's wahzoo.
2. ahemm , this is so not the case today , my computer is 4 years old and runs every thing i throw at it today smoothly still. secondly have you noticed the number of console game patches lately? i play both PC and xbox 360, i've seen more console game patching screens lately than i have seen pc games patching up. to top it off i've had my disc drive on the xbox died twice (both times i fixed the issue myself instead of paying MS 110 bucks to fix it) , and i've had freinds have their xbox burn up aobut 3 or 4 times. in this same time span , i've had ZERO major crashes on my pc , only one minor game crash , and No issues what so ever with program installs or driver updates. the only thing i see moving much are my friend's xbox 360" .... and they move right to the garbage bin when they burn up , fortunately my xbox 360 hasn't done that yet.
3. PC piracy being a real issue , is the greatest myth concocted by the game industry today. if pc piracy was as bad as the indusrty paint's it , steam would be out of buisness as would most digital distibutors. the fact is the game industry just wants to gear towards a platform where they can control consumers ownership of a game , more iron fistedly. So they thorw out piracy asa reason to leave PC , the only point they say any thing at all is in hopes that some of those ahrd core pc gamers will go console.
4. again something you are just yanking out your gass hole. need i remind you my pc was built in 2008 it was by NO MEANS a top end system i paid about 700 for it , it's a FACT that the PS 3 released at a price of 500 for a 20 gig model and 600 for an 80 gig model. My pc played better than ps 3 level graphic in 2008 and it still plays better than ps 3 graphics now. sosure a PS2 was 100-200 bucks less but guess what .. a PS3 wont run 3ds max , maya , mudbox or any other list of software i require for my school. so where's the value in that PS3 ?
5. again you are talking s--t, just the hardcore pc gaming crowd alone accounts for about a deccent sized number , but the pc gaming market goes so much further , if you really took stock of all pc gamers world wide you'd be suprised the figures acutally out wiegh consoles drastically (this count's casual and hard core). looking at just steam , just steam mind you there are about 10 million steam users , that is no "small figure" by any definition , don't forget there are also about 11 million WoW players as well , nto that i like WoW but hey it is a pc game after all.
now before i go further i want to say i'm not a fanboy , i play both PC and consoles , so don't label me asa fanboy of either.
Now the good part 5 things wrong with consoles.
1. weak and uninspiring hardware.
2. console game patches WTF ??? this si a closed system console , there shouldn't be ANY patches.
3. Lower resolutions , let's face it i've had a 1080p tv for a eyar now , most peopel i know now have a 1080p tv. consoles can't even reach thier imaging system's maximum resolution right now , what gives?
4. sh-- controll schemes , that are either so new that they don't function right (kinect) or they are a decade old ( dual joy stick controllers). hell atlest ditch the right stick for some kind of track ball , it would making aiming on consoles a million times more fluid and precise.
5. over packaged under cooled hardware. the original ps3 .. died form heat a lot ... xbox 360 hell 12 revisions to the system design and it still occasionally dies form heat issues.
for every pc flaw , you list there is at least one console flaw that can be listed as well.
while epic has petered off in actual game development , I still have to give them creds becasue they really do make damn good game engines. i'm not concerned about unreal 4 as a game at all , i'm just ready to see the next iteration of the UDK.
[citation][nom]aggroboy[/nom]Problems of PC:1. Whatever horsepower advantage PC has gets swamped under layers upon layers of compatibilities and wrappers, just to make it work with billions of driver/OS/version/hardware permutations. John Carmack himself mentioned the hoops he had to jump just for one GPU vendor.2. A stable hardware platform like PS3/X360 for many years allows for developers to heavily optimize for it. That trumps the moving target that is the PC.3. PC Piracy. Really bad. Whatever claim you make about Xbox360 piracy, at least they can move millions on that platform.4. Terrible value for money. PS3 was introduced in 2006, and only in 2008 an expensive PC can play the same games today.5. Deceptively small, disproportionately vocal and polarized market.[/citation]
Problems with what you just said:
1. john carmack only humps himself through hoops cos he insistantly programs games for open glide , an out dated POS open source API that aside from ID no one else programs for. programing for direct X 11 (or 9 or 10) is a far easier task to acomplish , i'm a game art design student , and in a team class we puled off a working game in 11 1/2 weeks with just 12 of us, that ran fine on EVERY team member's computer (which were all different in video card and general hardware.) so any one that sites this as a pc problem doesnt know jack s--t what they are talking about, or they are blowing smoke up people's wahzoo.
2. ahemm , this is so not the case today , my computer is 4 years old and runs every thing i throw at it today smoothly still. secondly have you noticed the number of console game patches lately? i play both PC and xbox 360, i've seen more console game patching screens lately than i have seen pc games patching up. to top it off i've had my disc drive on the xbox died twice (both times i fixed the issue myself instead of paying MS 110 bucks to fix it) , and i've had freinds have their xbox burn up aobut 3 or 4 times. in this same time span , i've had ZERO major crashes on my pc , only one minor game crash , and No issues what so ever with program installs or driver updates. the only thing i see moving much are my friend's xbox 360" .... and they move right to the garbage bin when they burn up , fortunately my xbox 360 hasn't done that yet.
3. PC piracy being a real issue , is the greatest myth concocted by the game industry today. if pc piracy was as bad as the indusrty paint's it , steam would be out of buisness as would most digital distibutors. the fact is the game industry just wants to gear towards a platform where they can control consumers ownership of a game , more iron fistedly. So they thorw out piracy asa reason to leave PC , the only point they say any thing at all is in hopes that some of those ahrd core pc gamers will go console.
4. again something you are just yanking out your gass hole. need i remind you my pc was built in 2008 it was by NO MEANS a top end system i paid about 700 for it , it's a FACT that the PS 3 released at a price of 500 for a 20 gig model and 600 for an 80 gig model. My pc played better than ps 3 level graphic in 2008 and it still plays better than ps 3 graphics now. sosure a PS2 was 100-200 bucks less but guess what .. a PS3 wont run 3ds max , maya , mudbox or any other list of software i require for my school. so where's the value in that PS3 ?
5. again you are talking s--t, just the hardcore pc gaming crowd alone accounts for about a deccent sized number , but the pc gaming market goes so much further , if you really took stock of all pc gamers world wide you'd be suprised the figures acutally out wiegh consoles drastically (this count's casual and hard core). looking at just steam , just steam mind you there are about 10 million steam users , that is no "small figure" by any definition , don't forget there are also about 11 million WoW players as well , nto that i like WoW but hey it is a pc game after all.
now before i go further i want to say i'm not a fanboy , i play both PC and consoles , so don't label me asa fanboy of either.
Now the good part 5 things wrong with consoles.
1. weak and uninspiring hardware.
2. console game patches WTF ??? this si a closed system console , there shouldn't be ANY patches.
3. Lower resolutions , let's face it i've had a 1080p tv for a eyar now , most peopel i know now have a 1080p tv. consoles can't even reach thier imaging system's maximum resolution right now , what gives?
4. sh-- controll schemes , that are either so new that they don't function right (kinect) or they are a decade old ( dual joy stick controllers). hell atlest ditch the right stick for some kind of track ball , it would making aiming on consoles a million times more fluid and precise.
5. over packaged under cooled hardware. the original ps3 .. died form heat a lot ... xbox 360 hell 12 revisions to the system design and it still occasionally dies form heat issues.
for every pc flaw , you list there is at least one console flaw that can be listed as well.
[citation][nom]Antimatter79[/nom]Yeah, I had to read that a few times to make sure I understood him correctly. I have definitely grown tired of seeing my wife play jaggy, upscaled, ugly textured PS3 games on the system that boasts 1080p "high definition" gaming. Ripoff.[/citation]
why are you complaining?.. you have a wife that has game! LOL
So, the real reason you don't like graphics[on a console] is that your wife pwn's you, and you hate losing! LOL ( /sarcasm NOT)
why are you complaining?.. you have a wife that has game! LOL
So, the real reason you don't like graphics[on a console] is that your wife pwn's you, and you hate losing! LOL ( /sarcasm NOT)
kinggremlin
Distinguished
- Jul 14, 2009
- 574
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- 19,010
[citation][nom]aggroboy[/nom]Problems of PC:1. Whatever horsepower advantage PC has gets swamped under layers upon layers of compatibilities and wrappers, just to make it work with billions of driver/OS/version/hardware permutations. John Carmack himself mentioned the hoops he had to jump just for one GPU vendor.2. A stable hardware platform like PS3/X360 for many years allows for developers to heavily optimize for it. That trumps the moving target that is the PC.3. PC Piracy. Really bad. Whatever claim you make about Xbox360 piracy, at least they can move millions on that platform.4. Terrible value for money. PS3 was introduced in 2006, and only in 2008 an expensive PC can play the same games today.5. Deceptively small, disproportionately vocal and polarized market.[/citation]
You are absolutely correct on 4 of those. Point 4 might be debatable since few people buy a computer to game exclusively on. If you did, I would agree it is a terrible bang for buck vs a console. The fact that you were rated down into oblivion is further proof that the fringe, vocal minority, simply don't get it or understand how industries work. Until you decide to face reality and concede the issues inherent with the current PC gaming landscape and do something yourself to address the problems, it isn't going to move forward from where it is now.
You are absolutely correct on 4 of those. Point 4 might be debatable since few people buy a computer to game exclusively on. If you did, I would agree it is a terrible bang for buck vs a console. The fact that you were rated down into oblivion is further proof that the fringe, vocal minority, simply don't get it or understand how industries work. Until you decide to face reality and concede the issues inherent with the current PC gaming landscape and do something yourself to address the problems, it isn't going to move forward from where it is now.
@aggroboy
OK, I'll bite.
1) Yes, PC's have drivers and thus an abstraction layer. This is necessary to give choice and promote competition. Other "layers" like DX, OGL, OCL, Games Engines, SDKs, ect. are there to make the developers job easier, not harder. Otherwise, they simply wouldn't use them. Of course, it is still more difficult to program for than consoles. There is a horsepower penalty, but it isn't nearly as significant as you seem to be suggesting.
2) Yes, a consistent platform (I wouldn't necessarily call it stable) allows for much better optimization. However, this is in no way capable of keeping up with the pace of hardware development.
3) A consistent platform, while allowing for heavy optimization also caries the downside of being a stationary target for hackers. In other words, at this point it is just as easy to pirate a console game as it is a PC game. The reason consoles tend to move more copies of games probably has more to do with the (unreasonable?) expectations PC gamers have for games that are simultaneously launched on console than piracy. Of course, install base is also quite disparate.
4) XBOX360 was released in May 2005. The X1900XT was launched in January 2006. This card was more graphically capable than both the X1900 based XBOX360 and the 7800 based PS3. That is less than a year of so called superiority. It took a while for CPUs to catch up to cell, but it took even longer for game developers to figure out how to make proper use of the cell architecture (still not sure some have figured it out). Anyone with an average desktop PC is only a video card away from gaming parity/superiority with consoles. Plus, PCs can do things other than gaming (Blasphemy, I know). The reason the same games are playable on PC and console today is because games are targeted to the console. PCs are often penalized by having to do things "the console way". Even then, despite the slapped on nature of the PC specific optimizations (think Crysis 2), the PC versions often do look a little better. With the rare game designed for the PC, they either look a whole lot better, or they simply do not run on console. But I digress, PC targeted games are an extremely rare breed now.
5) The PC market is probably larger than you think. The hardcore gamers are more vocal, because they want games that make full use of their hardware. Imagine if games for the XBX360/PS3 were limited to Nintendo Gamecube capabilities. I'm pretty sure you'd find plenty of console gamers more than a little vocal and most likely unwilling to purchase such under-targeted games. I have to agree with the polarized comment. However, the flexibility to cater well to both casual and hardcore gamers is part of the strength of the PC.
There are some serious advantages to consoles, but much of their advantage lies in simplicity, ease of development/use, and living room friendly form factor.
OK, I'll bite.
1) Yes, PC's have drivers and thus an abstraction layer. This is necessary to give choice and promote competition. Other "layers" like DX, OGL, OCL, Games Engines, SDKs, ect. are there to make the developers job easier, not harder. Otherwise, they simply wouldn't use them. Of course, it is still more difficult to program for than consoles. There is a horsepower penalty, but it isn't nearly as significant as you seem to be suggesting.
2) Yes, a consistent platform (I wouldn't necessarily call it stable) allows for much better optimization. However, this is in no way capable of keeping up with the pace of hardware development.
3) A consistent platform, while allowing for heavy optimization also caries the downside of being a stationary target for hackers. In other words, at this point it is just as easy to pirate a console game as it is a PC game. The reason consoles tend to move more copies of games probably has more to do with the (unreasonable?) expectations PC gamers have for games that are simultaneously launched on console than piracy. Of course, install base is also quite disparate.
4) XBOX360 was released in May 2005. The X1900XT was launched in January 2006. This card was more graphically capable than both the X1900 based XBOX360 and the 7800 based PS3. That is less than a year of so called superiority. It took a while for CPUs to catch up to cell, but it took even longer for game developers to figure out how to make proper use of the cell architecture (still not sure some have figured it out). Anyone with an average desktop PC is only a video card away from gaming parity/superiority with consoles. Plus, PCs can do things other than gaming (Blasphemy, I know). The reason the same games are playable on PC and console today is because games are targeted to the console. PCs are often penalized by having to do things "the console way". Even then, despite the slapped on nature of the PC specific optimizations (think Crysis 2), the PC versions often do look a little better. With the rare game designed for the PC, they either look a whole lot better, or they simply do not run on console. But I digress, PC targeted games are an extremely rare breed now.
5) The PC market is probably larger than you think. The hardcore gamers are more vocal, because they want games that make full use of their hardware. Imagine if games for the XBX360/PS3 were limited to Nintendo Gamecube capabilities. I'm pretty sure you'd find plenty of console gamers more than a little vocal and most likely unwilling to purchase such under-targeted games. I have to agree with the polarized comment. However, the flexibility to cater well to both casual and hardcore gamers is part of the strength of the PC.
There are some serious advantages to consoles, but much of their advantage lies in simplicity, ease of development/use, and living room friendly form factor.
DjEaZy
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- Apr 3, 2008
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... Unreal Engine 4 Not For Current Platforms (Except Kepler)... hmmm... it cold backfire, like with the first Crysis with Windows Vista... CoD MW won the GOTY that year, because it was more accessible... Crytek haz learned and made a engine, that works with the popular systems around... so? Is Epic and nVidia in the position to blackmail the whole gaming industry to follow the there path... next Xbox and WiiU is rumored/confirmed to have Radeon in it... even PS4 is rumored to have an APU from AMD... so? it's good to push the limits, but don't get to far ahead...
Tmanishere
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- Jun 23, 2009
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With consoles becoming more and more like PC, eventually, they will be the same minus the flexibility and upgrade ability. You have to respect the PC community. Without it, you wouldn't have Counter-Strike, which to this day, still trumps the competitiveness and responsiveness of other games out there.
I can't even imagine playing RTS without a keyboard and mouse. One thing that console has it going is a platform games and racing, IMO.
Console is your young and naive step-brother. He gets all the treatment and the attention, whether he deserves it or not.
I can't even imagine playing RTS without a keyboard and mouse. One thing that console has it going is a platform games and racing, IMO.
Console is your young and naive step-brother. He gets all the treatment and the attention, whether he deserves it or not.
bluestar2k11
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- Feb 1, 2011
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Maybe I missed the point (besides money), but if it takes a 680 or 3 580's, let alone the CPU (i7-Extreme?) for them to run the UE4 engine at it's best, what hope does the next console generation even have?
Those chips or anything close to them doesn't have a prayer to be in this generation, without melting them or bankrupting the creator.
Sooo... What is the point of this blatant blindsided console support, if your new engine doesn't have a chance on the choose platform? My PC will likely run circles around the next generation, let alone the hardware UE4 seems to demand.
Those chips or anything close to them doesn't have a prayer to be in this generation, without melting them or bankrupting the creator.
Sooo... What is the point of this blatant blindsided console support, if your new engine doesn't have a chance on the choose platform? My PC will likely run circles around the next generation, let alone the hardware UE4 seems to demand.
When you look for the best graphics available in the whole game industry today, you look at Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3
hahahahahaha loooool.this idiot really made me laugh.this pieces of can were even not capable of beating pcs at their release time.but as a result of low performance gap from high end pcs and much lower price,they were good purchases for some people.but today.this man said something that even a comedian couldn't invent to make me laugh.
doesn't he know that we understand what a gtx580 or 680 means today?
hahahahahaha loooool.this idiot really made me laugh.this pieces of can were even not capable of beating pcs at their release time.but as a result of low performance gap from high end pcs and much lower price,they were good purchases for some people.but today.this man said something that even a comedian couldn't invent to make me laugh.
doesn't he know that we understand what a gtx580 or 680 means today?
master9716
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- Jul 27, 2006
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As Far as realism , Unreal Engine 4 has a lot b4 it can catch up to Bf3s engine. Theres efficient graphics engines and in-eficient engines like Crysys 2. UE4 engine sounds inneficient already judging from their demos.
ddg4005
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This coming from a company who cut its teeth on the PC with the Unreal series. I remember reading in PC Gamer back in '96 when Unreal was in development and finally released in May 1998. Now that these bastards have some cash in their pockets they're doing what id software did and focusing on consoles.
The problem is that that strategy blew up in id's face with Rage being a less-than-stellar game after years in development and mediocre reviews. It looks like Epic has to learn the same lesson.
The problem is that that strategy blew up in id's face with Rage being a less-than-stellar game after years in development and mediocre reviews. It looks like Epic has to learn the same lesson.
[citation][nom]demonhorde665[/nom]4. again something you are just yanking out your gass hole. need i remind you my pc was built in 2008 it was by NO MEANS a top end system i paid about 700 for it , it's a FACT that the PS 3 released at a price of 500 for a 20 gig model and 600 for an 80 gig model. My pc played better than ps 3 level graphic in 2008 and it still plays better than ps 3 graphics now. .[/citation]
That didn't sound too right. Look at the CPU and GPU solutions available in H1 2008, and the price of PS3/X360 in 2008. The baseline spec to be able to run today's multiplatform games at similar fidelity to the console equivalents started with Wolfdale and R700s, which cost a ton back when they were introduced in 2008. Basically it took PC 2-3 years to match the consoles, at a hefty price.
Was there ever a new console generation where PC hardware wasn't caught with its pants down?
That didn't sound too right. Look at the CPU and GPU solutions available in H1 2008, and the price of PS3/X360 in 2008. The baseline spec to be able to run today's multiplatform games at similar fidelity to the console equivalents started with Wolfdale and R700s, which cost a ton back when they were introduced in 2008. Basically it took PC 2-3 years to match the consoles, at a hefty price.
Was there ever a new console generation where PC hardware wasn't caught with its pants down?
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