[V:tR] Auspex - Twilight Projection - To Die or Not To Die?

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In the description on p.123 at the top of the second column, it is
statet that "If the body is subjected to either torpor or Final Death,
the projected psyche is pulled back immediately.", but under Suggested
Modifiers we see "..., such as when a vampire abandons her body at the
moment of Final Death (after all, a ghost body is better than no body at
all)."
So which is it? Can a vampire with high Auspex escape his own death (at
least for some days or untill he finds another body) or is he doomed to
return to his decaying husk? Or is he meant to be pulled back just to
escape again?
--

my homepage : http://hd42.de

'Life is wasted on the living' - Zaphod Beeblebrox the Fourth

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Daniel Hohenberger wrote:
> In the description on p.123 at the top of the second column, it is
> statet that "If the body is subjected to either torpor or Final
Death,
> the projected psyche is pulled back immediately.", but under
Suggested
> Modifiers we see "..., such as when a vampire abandons her body at
the
> moment of Final Death (after all, a ghost body is better than no body
at
> all)."
> So which is it? Can a vampire with high Auspex escape his own death
(at
> least for some days or untill he finds another body) or is he doomed
to
> return to his decaying husk? Or is he meant to be pulled back just to

> escape again?
> --
>
> my homepage : http://hd42.de
>
> 'Life is wasted on the living' - Zaphod Beeblebrox the Fourth

I don't think you can pin them down. The rules seem contradictory, but
there's no real final ground for resolving it. The rules aren't
defined over a precise mathematical set of entities, they're guidelines
for exception-laden, arbitrary story-telling.

If a teacher at West Point or Annapolis or any other military academy
writes a game simulating tank warfare, there is a definite military
consensus about what tank warfare is like. The game can have its
contradictions critiqued by other soldiers. (And the game is probably
much smaller, more precise, and more concise than anything produced by
White Wolf...)

White Wolf has so many different rules, settings, and elements that no
writer can know all of them, and there doesn't seem to be any way of
resolving contradictions. I think they simply make games that are
logically broken by design and defend this with the Golden Rule --
i.e., that there are no rules, only story-telling.

My players and I have discovered a lot of White Wolf game mechanics
that just don't make sense to us. The Mage spheres are especially rich
sources of designs which seem absurd to our troupe (but don't
necessarily seem absurd to other troupes). There doesn't seem to be
any solution, so far as we can tell.

Sorry. Maybe I'm just neurotic and White Wolf's style is so alien to
me that I put up neurotic defenses to avoid understanding something
that's obvious and reasonable to persons without my particular neurosis.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Daniel Hohenberger wrote:

> In the description on p.123 at the top of the second column, it is
> statet that "If the body is subjected to either torpor or Final Death,
> the projected psyche is pulled back immediately.", but under Suggested
> Modifiers we see "..., such as when a vampire abandons her body at the
> moment of Final Death (after all, a ghost body is better than no body at
> all)."
> So which is it? Can a vampire with high Auspex escape his own death (at
> least for some days or untill he finds another body) or is he doomed to
> return to his decaying husk? Or is he meant to be pulled back just to
> escape again?

I'd rule that Twilight Projection has two uses. The first is the normal
one. If your body dies while you're caught in normal Twilight
Projection, you're SOL.

On the other hand, if you're /in/ your body at the moment of Final Death
and you've learned Twilight Projection, you can flee it. If you don't
mind an eternal existence in Twilight with no way to interact with
anything tangibly ever again, and no way to die.

(/Actually/ I'd rule that vampires using Twilight Projection are, in
fact, in Twilight, using the definition in Werewolf: The Forsaken, and
thus able to interact physically with other spirits in Twilight. But
that's just me. For those unfamiliar, Twilight is the state of being in
the physical world but intangible, kinda like Orpheus ghosts or ghosts
in the nWoD corebook. It's not the same as being in the Shadow. Thus,
vampires who flee their bodies using Twilight Projection at the moment
of death can interact with and be killed by Twilight spirits as per normal.)
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
-Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls wrote:
> Daniel Hohenberger wrote:
>
> > In the description on p.123 at the top of the second column, it is
> > statet that "If the body is subjected to either torpor or Final
Death,
> > the projected psyche is pulled back immediately.", but under
Suggested
> > Modifiers we see "..., such as when a vampire abandons her body at
the
> > moment of Final Death (after all, a ghost body is better than no
body at
> > all)."
> > So which is it? Can a vampire with high Auspex escape his own death
(at
> > least for some days or untill he finds another body) or is he
doomed to
> > return to his decaying husk? Or is he meant to be pulled back just
to
> > escape again?
>
> I'd rule that Twilight Projection has two uses. The first is the
normal
> one. If your body dies while you're caught in normal Twilight
> Projection, you're SOL.
>
> On the other hand, if you're /in/ your body at the moment of Final
Death
> and you've learned Twilight Projection, you can flee it. If you
don't
> mind an eternal existence in Twilight with no way to interact with
> anything tangibly ever again, and no way to die.
>
Unless, of course, you can find a Medium to communicate through. And
possibly possess. Assuming there *are* still such people walking
about...

Dex