What do the names refer to?

[CETD85]

I've been looking at new AMD CPU's, and understand what the numbers and names associated with them mean, apart from the names, such as Barton, winchester, Clawhammer on the Athlon 64 processors.
What do they refer to?

 

[ChipDeath]

They refer to the core. Just a codename.
e.g.:
The 'Palomino' was the first Athlon to be given the 'XP' moniker. It was based on a 180nm process, and had 256Kb of L2 Cache.
They then kept the core pretty much the same but shrank the process to 130nm. That core was the Thouroughbred-A core.
Then they tweaked a few things in the core, and it became the Thouroughbred-B core.
Barton is the thouroughbred-B 130nm core with 512Kb L2 cache
Clawhammer is a 130nm Athlon 64, with <b>1Mb</b> L2 Cache.
Newcastle is a 130nm Athlon 64, with <b>512</b>Kb L2 cache..
Winchester is the newer 90nm A64 core with <b>512Kb</b> L2.

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"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ChipDeath on 02/13/05 11:46 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Rugger]

Isn't the L2 cache 512KB for the Winchester and Newcastle and 1MB for the Clawhammer?

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[Huh]

Isn't the L2 cache 512KB for the Winchester and Newcastle and 1MB for the Clawhammer?

Yes.

Also the Clawhammer is 200 MHz slower than the same numbered Newcastle.

Model: AMD Athlon 64 3000+
Core: Newcastle
Operating Frequency: 2GHz
Cache: L2/512K

Model: AMD Athlon 64 3000+
Core: ClawHammer
Operating Frequency: 1.8 GHz
Cache: L2/1MB

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Yeah, what are you thinking ChipDeath?

Both Newcastle and Winchester cores have 512Kb of L2 Cache

______________
Read the friggin FAQ, and use the search button or I'll kick yer face in!

 

[CETD85]

Thanks for the replies: so out of those, ehich are the 939 socket, and how does performance relate between them?

 

[tweebel]

Socket 939 comes in 3 flavours:
-Winchester: 90nm, overclock really well and run cool. 512 kb cache
-Clawhammer: Top of the line. 130 nm, 1 mb cache. Really expensive but extremely fast
-Newcastle: The old winchester. 130 nm instead of 90 nm, doesn't overclock as well as the winchester.

The newcastle and winchester have about the same performance at the same clockspeed/rating. The clawhammer (4000+ and FX-55) is faster but really expensive.

 

[CETD85]

Can you just confirm, there is a A64 3200+ Winchester and Newcastle, but NOT a Winchester and Newcastle for the 3400+ and 3500+ respectively?

 

[Rugger]

There is a <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-460&depa=1" target="_new">Newcastle 3500+</A> in s939, but not s754.

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[jammydodger]

What are the differences between the Fx and the Athlon64 other than the FX having 1MB L2 (which some 64's have aswell)?

 

[tweebel]

AMD renamed some of them. The old FX-53 has a Clawhammer core but was renamed to 4000+. Maybe they'll do the same to the FX-55. There is no difference in the design except for the cache as far as I know.

 

[Rugger]

This is a review by <A HREF="http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3328371" target="_new">Sharky extreme</A> that talks about some of the differences.

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[CETD85]

Ok, so when i take it in for the UG, what i ask for is a "AMD A64 3500+ Winchester 939 socket"?
Bit of a mouthful

 

[ChipDeath]

Crapola. Was distracted, and possibly drunk. my bad :lol: ... Give us a break, my motherboard's just died. :frown:

*smacks head*

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

 

[Rugger]

One of the differences you need to think about is the SOCKET. s754 vs s939, s754 CPUs are clocked 200Mhz faster than the same rated s939. In fact in most cases the A64, s754, Newcastle core, 3400+ will actually be FASTER than the A64, s939, Winchester core, 3500+. Oh BTW the 3400+ is also less expensive by about $100USD.

The biggest concern about getting the s754 CPUs is that if you plan on upgrading the CPU or video card in the next two years. The new standard for vid cards is PCIe - not avail with s754. The s754 is prob limited to around 3700+. So, if you plan on upgrading within the next two years or so, then the best choice may be the s939. Answer your upgrade question truthfully - if you aren't going to upgrade then the best price/perf ratio on the streets is the s754.

You're taking it to a local comp store to be built for you? If yes, then have them give you a written quote with all parts and prices and post that here for review before you buy. We'll let you know if it's good or not...

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[Rugger]

*pats on back*

There, there Chippy - it'll all be better when you get the new system.

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[CETD85]

Rugger- thanks for the advise.
I've been reading on the net re: the U/G for a few days now and was under the impression the 939 socket was the best one to go for, not just because of the PCIe. why is it that the 754 is that much quicker?
I've not read of that.

To clarify, are you saying that ATM, if i got a s754, i would be OK. say, geting a new vid card, but if i waited longer, I would not be able to put one in as they woulf be PCIe, whereas that Mobo is (i assume) PCI?

I'll post the quote when I go in- I'm in the UK but you should be able to advise me hopefully.

BTW, its not a comp store as in a chain, but an independant company that builds PC's ect. As I've not U/Ged before, how do companies like these go about these U/g's? Its unlikey they will have th exact CPU I'm after, or will they? And do they have standard Mobo's for each? How do i ensure what they're putting in what I want?
Its just that it all seemed a bit vague when i went in last time....


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by CETD85 on 02/13/05 02:16 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[jammydodger]

Socket 754 CPU's are clocked slightly higher than equivalent Socket939 CPU's. This is because socket939 supports dual channel RAM and so AMD decided that this makes up for the difference in clock speeds. However in reality is does not so a socket 754 3200+ will beat a socket 939 3200+.

 

[Rugger]

s754 is still one of the best options out there. Pair it with ab nF3 250 chipset mobo like the Abit NF8 or the DFi Lanparty nF3 UT 250 and you have yourself a great mobo/CPU. In my opinion, the advantages to s939 right now are:
1. Dual channel memory
2. SLI option
3. PCIe vid card slots for future upgradeability.

If you don't plan on upgrading, then the s754 should be your #1 choice! The only disadvantages to the s754 are that at this point they don't support faster than 3700+ CPUs and they don't have PCIe slots. As PCIe becomes more predominant, mfrs will create less and less AGP vid cards. Therefore the AGP vid cards will eventually become harder to find and will increase in price. I say again, if you're not planning on upgrading this sytstem, then you have absolutely NO reason not to get s754.

Make sure that you list mfr and model # for all of the parts they quote to you. If I can't help, then someone else will - good community here.

There are a lot of great little independent companies that build PCs. If it's a local store, then I would ask around on their reputation and how they take care of customers. I think we have a few people on the board that are from the UK. They can give more insight on prices than I can for the area, but I'll be more than happy to review their system proposal.

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[ChipDeath]

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing how high an FSB my 1700+ can withstand I could only get 205 on the old mobo.

I'll no doubt end up replacing that NB HS too in time...

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

 

[CETD85]

I've got a quote from the shop who will be doing the U/G, but before that, Ruggerwhat do you say to this:

Socket 939 is the revised version of Socket 940, and all Socket 939 CPU's have a 128-bit wide memory controller. Socket 754 is cheaper because it's inferior - only a 64-bit wide memory controller. This cuts CPU-to-RAM bandwidth in half (no dual-channel RAM on Socket 754), and while the K8 core doesn't take as big of a hit from this as Intel's NetBurst microarchitecture, it still makes a difference in raw system power. Games and other high-end apps will run significantly faster on a Socket 939 system vs a similar Socket 754 system

[BTW I'm sure you'll guess these are't my words, but taken from another site]


Either I've got the wrong end of the stick, which is probable, or else I seem to have conlicting advise?

Re: the quote, and a couple of probs with it. But see what you think.

For £408 plus fitting @ approx £50.00 for:

A 64 3500 s939
ABit Guru KV8 Pro Mobo
512 Meg DDR 400 Corsair RAM
Easy cool 500w PSU

What i am unsure about is the quality of the Mobo/PSU/Memory.
I'be read about regarding thsee, and had a few manufactures in mind, and what I've read on the board here.
So how do these rate?

And can you clarify the 939 v 754 issue?
when you refer to dual channel memory, is that what is refered to as 'PC2'?

 

[Rugger]

To that I say - yes. Yes, the s939 has dual channel capability and the s754 does not. Yes, the s939 is a newer socket and if you took a s939 at 2Ghz (a 3200+) using dual channel and a s754 at 2Ghz (a 3000+), that the s939 will win. Notice the difference between the s754 and the s939. The s939 <b>3200+</b> with dual channel memory will beat the s754 <b>3000+</b>. The price difference bewteen these two CPUs is $48USD - the s939 3200+ is 33% more expensive and will give you better performance. The s939 3000+ will be slower than the s754 3000+ because it is clocked 200Mhz slower and the dual channel memory of the s939 does not overcome that 200Mhz difference. Unless by "similar" the other poster means both the s754 and s939 are at the same speed (3000+ s754 vs 3200+ s939), then you are getting conflicting info.

Not sure about your "PC2" reference. When I say dual channel, I mean you have two similar memory sticks in the motherboard. You're mobo manual will state the specific sockets to put the memory in to achieve dual channel mode. When dual-channel is enabled it doubles the memory bandwidth, but typically only provides a 5-10% system performance increase.
*Sounds trumpet - calling in the calvary for support*

What are they charging for each of the parts?

Never heard of the "Easy Cool" PSUs. Is it ATX12V v2.0 compatible (does it have 2 12V rails)? If you're going to go with s939, then I highly recommend the nF4 chipset, but this will require the purchase of a PCIe video card. Are you buying a new video card, too? Lazerous has recently gotten that mobo and says it's running really well for him. Check out this <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=570202#570202" target="_new">series of posts</A> and possibly PM him. If you get s939, then you need a matched pair of memory sticks to take advantage of the dual-channel memory.

If that purchase was done in the US, then you could buy the parts for:
K8V Pro = $80
3500+ = $280
512MB Corsair Value select = $67
Generic 500W PSU = $80
Total = $507 USD which converts to 267 UK pounds
+50 pounds for install = 317 UK Pounds.
Prices vary between the two areas, so I will defer to one of THG's UK brethren what type of deal you're being offered.

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[jammydodger]

£408 isnt bad, isnt great thought. I looking on www.overclockers.co.uk and I couldnt build the same system much cheaper. However I reckon I could build a similary performing socket754 system cheaper.

when you refer to dual channel memory, is that what is refered to as 'PC2'?

No, I have no idea what you mean when you say PC2. There is DDR2 which is a totally different type of memory that is currently only supported by intel (915/925 based platforms). Dual channel mode is when two seperate 64bit memory modules are combined to make a single 128bit memory module. Since a 128bit module can transfer 128bit's per clock cycle rather than 64bits you get twice the memory performance.

I have noticed that the setup you are getting only comes with a single 512MB stick of RAM, which completly negates the point of getting a socket939 system. YOU CANT USE DUAL CHANNEL WITH ONLY 1 STICK. So you 3500+ will perform much worse than a socket 754 3500+.

 

[ChipDeath]

I've seen DDR2 Referred to as PC2-5400 instead of PC5400. Maybe it's a UK website thing

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen

 

[jammydodger]

Oh fair enough, I aint seen that.