What Does A $16,000+ PC Look Like, Anyway?

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[citation][nom]justaguy[/nom]There really is no denying that it would have been far cheaper with many solutions besides custom water cooling. Some of those solutions would have kept the noise equally low and still saved thousands.[/citation]

Not really, given that the price of all the water-cooling components is about $700.
Radiator = 150
4 Koolance CPU blocks = 240
Koolance drivebay pump + res combo = 250
Tubing and shiny chrome fittings = 50

...maybe this used some extra fans (at what? $15 each?) but if you want to run all your fans at 7v you're going to need a lot of fans in an aircooling solution as well, and you'd probably pay at least $160 for four nice quiet air-cooled CPU heat sinks. So the premium paid for water cooling here is only about $550 (pre-mark-up) over air-cooling, and with that much radiator surface area I doubt you'd be able to get as good of a temp/dB ratio with air, but I'm sure you could get the same dB without actually overheating the CPUs.

Cheers,
CList
 
...of course, as I mentioned in a previous post, simply putting the whole thing in a closet would probably provide the quietest and lowest cost solution!

Cheers,
C
 
I have an HP rackmount server in my basement and it is LOUD. You can easily hear it upstairs when it is under load and the fans crank up. Soundproofing a room or an enclosure can be quite a pain, take up extra space, and is expensive. I think with the kind of setup in this article you lose everything you want in a server though.. RELIABILITY.
 
Cooling the CPUs in series like that means the 4th CPU is going to run the warmest since the coolant has already warmed up from cooling the other 3. Then again I guess it's not meant for overclocking, but for being a big ol main frame. Still, that's the price of a new car! That's not really something to be used as a desktop, so for less than a quarter of that you can build some equally powerful rack mounts, and while they would be more noisy you could just put them in a closet or spend a little more for a big enclosure to house them.

I guess it's something that's nice to have if you have the need for it, but I would never buy this, or even build it for that matter.
 
I just dropped 3,500 dollars on a system that I specced out against 2 other boutiques before I built it myself.Total system cost was almost double my parts cost. Explain this?? How do you boutique builders ever expect to make it in this failing economy, when you are trying to sell to niche market gamers and enthusiasts who already know how to make the machines they game on everyday. You are performance focused system builders yet your machines are not focused price-wise to your intended audience.
Click to expand...

Is this $16k system overpriced? Probably...I don't really care to go add up the parts. However, you have no understanding of how a business works at all. First thing you need to understand, is that a business has many more expenses than just "parts." It would be a nice world if offices and workshops paid for themselves. It'd be a nice world if equipment and machinery paid for themselves. And advertising...it should just pay for itself. Employees should pay themselves too. Websites should host themselves free of charge, and program and design themselves as well. And this is just a drop in the bucket. I'm sure you think that you're the only person affected by today's crappy economy...but businesses feel the recession just as much as you do, and maybe more. A long time ago, I worked at a pizza store...and customers always used to complain about the prices(despite the fact that we were the same price as our competition and had better quality product). They'd be like "I bet that pizza only costs half of what you're charging to make." Truthfully...the actual food cost was probably only 35%. However...if the customers were capable of looking past anything other than their desire to stuff pizza into their fat faces as cheaply as possible, then they'd have known that the pizza store was actually barely breaking even...some weeks it didn't. The equipment in the store costed much more than a house...employees aren't free at all...advertising costs a lot more than you might think...renting or purchasing a comercial building is MUCH more expensive than you would think...the utility bills in such a place ridiculous...and then there's just these silly little expenses that add up quicker than you'd expect. And several of these expenses scale with the amount of business that you do. So if you sell twice as many pizzas one day as another...you don't make twice as much money.

The other thing to consider is that there is nothing wrong with wanting to make money. The employees and owners of these companies have just as much of a right to earn a living as you do. Assuming that you have a job, and assuming that it's not a minimum wage job....if you were to walk in to work tomorrow and demand to have your salary dropped down to the legal minimum, it would be very similar to what you're expecting these companies to do. In fact...it almost sounds like you want them to work for free. If you do work for minimum wage, or you're unemployed...then I guess the analogy won't make any sense to you. But at the same time, if that were the case...then you would likely not quite have the capacity to understand anything that I've said.

Furthermore...about your comments on their intended audience. You are not their intended audience. I am not their intended audience. Most of the people who frequent tomshardware are not their intended audience. Why would it be a good business plan to try to sell computers to people that know how to, and would probably prefer to build them themselves? Of course you can build it cheaper yourself. Does a pizza store try to target customers that prefer to make their pizza from scratch? Probably not...that's kind of stupid. A pizza store tries to sell pizza to people who like pizza...but either don't know how to make it, or don't care to expend the time or effort. And just because a customer doesn't know how to, or doesn't want to, make their own pizza...it doesn't mean that they don't want to eat good pizza. There are plenty of people who like to play computer games, but don't know how to build computers. They might not even know a processor from a case. But it doesn't mean that they won't shop at Alienware when they see a sleek add that says "ZOMFGZ THIS COMPUTER WILL LET YOU PLAY CRYSIS SMOOTH AS SILK". And then...there always are those people that know how to do something, but have enough money to not have to. Either way, it's kind of futile to question the business strategies of these companies that sell high end computers...it's obviously working on some audience, because several of them have been around for quite some time. Anyway, sorry for the walls of text...it's just that some people are too quick to *repeatedly* interject with their uninformed opinions.
 
More money than brains--looks like a bragging rights machine and nothing more. A year or so down the line they will realize how stupid this build was when it's power is superceeded by $800 laptops. Not for the builders--for the buyer.
 
The indicator of quality is in the minor details.

Ugly external radiator,
$0.25 fan grills,
plain exposed wiring on the external fans?

No thanks,
Looks like a garage hack job more than a $16k high-end system.
 
[citation][nom]Fear3d[/nom]Is this $16k system overpriced? Probably...I don't really care to go add up the parts. However, you have no understanding of how a business works at all. First thing you need to understand, is that a business has many more expenses than just "parts." It would be a nice world if offices and workshops paid for themselves. It'd be a nice world if equipment and machinery paid for themselves. And advertising...it should just pay for itself. Employees should pay themselves too. Websites should host themselves free of charge, and program and design themselves as well. And this is just a drop in the bucket. I'm sure you think that you're the only person affected by today's crappy economy...but businesses feel the recession just as much as you do, and maybe more. A long time ago, I worked at a pizza store...and customers always used to complain about the prices(despite the fact that we were the same price as our competition and had better quality product). They'd be like "I bet that pizza only costs half of what you're charging to make." Truthfully...the actual food cost was probably only 35%. However...if the customers were capable of looking past anything other than their desire to stuff pizza into their fat faces as cheaply as possible, then they'd have known that the pizza store was actually barely breaking even...some weeks it didn't. The equipment in the store costed much more than a house...employees aren't free at all...advertising costs a lot more than you might think...renting or purchasing a comercial building is MUCH more expensive than you would think...the utility bills in such a place ridiculous...and then there's just these silly little expenses that add up quicker than you'd expect. And several of these expenses scale with the amount of business that you do. So if you sell twice as many pizzas one day as another...you don't make twice as much money.The other thing to consider is that there is nothing wrong with wanting to make money. The employees and owners of these companies have just as much of a right to earn a living as you do. Assuming that you have a job, and assuming that it's not a minimum wage job....if you were to walk in to work tomorrow and demand to have your salary dropped down to the legal minimum, it would be very similar to what you're expecting these companies to do. In fact...it almost sounds like you want them to work for free. If you do work for minimum wage, or you're unemployed...then I guess the analogy won't make any sense to you. But at the same time, if that were the case...then you would likely not quite have the capacity to understand anything that I've said.Furthermore...about your comments on their intended audience. You are not their intended audience. I am not their intended audience. Most of the people who frequent tomshardware are not their intended audience. Why would it be a good business plan to try to sell computers to people that know how to, and would probably prefer to build them themselves? Of course you can build it cheaper yourself. Does a pizza store try to target customers that prefer to make their pizza from scratch? Probably not...that's kind of stupid. A pizza store tries to sell pizza to people who like pizza...but either don't know how to make it, or don't care to expend the time or effort. And just because a customer doesn't know how to, or doesn't want to, make their own pizza...it doesn't mean that they don't want to eat good pizza. There are plenty of people who like to play computer games, but don't know how to build computers. They might not even know a processor from a case. But it doesn't mean that they won't shop at Alienware when they see a sleek add that says "ZOMFGZ THIS COMPUTER WILL LET YOU PLAY CRYSIS SMOOTH AS SILK". And then...there always are those people that know how to do something, but have enough money to not have to. Either way, it's kind of futile to question the business strategies of these companies that sell high end computers...it's obviously working on some audience, because several of them have been around for quite some time. Anyway, sorry for the walls of text...it's just that some people are too quick to *repeatedly* interject with their uninformed opinions.[/citation]


Fear3d, DITTO X 3, as many thumbs up as I can give you.

By the way, I bet some people might think I am some kind of shill for these guys, but let's get it straight for some of the young lads here who weren't into it when everything was still a beige box. In some sense modding has been around from the beginning. But even ten years ago, we built our thermoelectric and water-cooling units from scratch. About 10 years ago, there were few equivalent superbly designed Coolermaster Stackers or Thermaltake Armors, though people did put ugly plastic veneers over stock whiteboxes and sold these atrocities. If you wanted a solid mod you got an expensive folded-steel server case and went to work on it in a machine shop or your garage with a stash of panels of plexiglass and paint nearby. I still have one from KRI computers I did in '97. All 70 lbs of it.

Nowadays we have off-the-rack water units from over a dozen manufacturers, peltier coolers from perhaps half that many, and more types of cases than you could shake a stick at. Why? Because it's finally profitable. Why? Because enough people out there are willing to shell out rather substantial amounts of money (we are included IMO - it's no $16000 but we all pay a heck of a lot more than $399 after rebate like most people) for something more than a generic PC from HP.

But the number of people who regularly tinker with their PC parts is small (very much larger than it was 10 years ago, but still small). Boutique builders bridge the gap for the majority of well-to-do folks who want the same without the headaches/(enjoyment in your case) the PC-modding crowd endures. Partly because of them, IN ADDITION to all of you enthusiastic self-builders over the years, you don't have to go to a hardware store to buy PVC and copper tubes, a fish-tank pump, and a gallon of antifreeze to achieve your overclocking dreams - a one-click visit to TigerDirect or Newegg will suffice.

So please - the next time you meet this affluent fractal-artwork designer, before you so uncouthly smack him in the face for wiping his a$$ with 16 grand, send him my thanks. I dedicate my TT BigWater in his honor. 😛
 
[citation][nom]fancarolina[/nom]For that much money why is he using VelociRaptors in it where are the SCSI or SAS 15K RPM drives?[/citation]

15K RPM drives use a different type of read/write process than the 10K VelociRaptors. Given the owner's usage, the 10K RPM SATA drives will actually perform faster than SCSI or SAS drives that are designed for server storage and access.
 
[citation][nom]zads[/nom]The indicator of quality is in the minor details. Ugly external radiator, $0.25 fan grills, plain exposed wiring on the external fans? No thanks, Looks like a garage hack job more than a $16k high-end system.[/citation]

The radiator and fan grills are a subjective thing. What kind of radiator would YOU dream of to make it beautiful to everyone? Looks fine to me - though I'd argue on your side that no matter what fan grills you use, even 9 $10 Tweakmonster custom ones, it would look "cheap." A custom mesh setup would be more elegant to me too but again opinions vary.

Incidentally, I'm not trying to split hairs here but FYI those are stock grills that run about $1 a piece (not $0.25) in most places but for that matter probably came screwed onto the fans so in a sense they were 'free,' and probably a default choice.

The wiring is a VERY legitimate complaint - the cables are routed quite well and tied/braided very neatly, considering there are nine wires plus extenders in there, so no, 'garage hack job' is a gross exaggeration, but certainly a little sleeve/heatshrink would go a very long way to make it look finished, so I would agree on that point too - shame on Puget for not adding that last finishing touch.
 
[citation][nom]symota[/nom]15K RPM drives use a different type of read/write process than the 10K VelociRaptors. Given the owner's usage, the 10K RPM SATA drives will actually perform faster than SCSI or SAS drives that are designed for server storage and access.[/citation]

Right.

Not to mention 15K Cheetahs are known to sound like a turbine - not that 10K Raptors are dead silent, but I've heard a raid array of 15K Seagate drives before - ready for takeoff.

I'd imagine the performance in both cases would be more than adequate - but given the ubiquity of SATA drives, a SCSI setup is also needless hassle these days for anything outside of the server market.
 
[citation][nom]dmccarron[/nom]The radiator and fan grills are a subjective thing. What kind of radiator would YOU dream of to make it beautiful to everyone? Looks fine to me - though I'd argue on your side that no matter what fan grills you use, even 9 $10 Tweakmonster custom ones, it would look "cheap." A custom mesh setup would be more elegant to me too but again opinions vary.Incidentally, I'm not trying to split hairs here but FYI those are stock grills that run about $1 a piece (not $0.25) in most places but for that matter probably came screwed onto the fans so in a sense they were 'free,' and probably a default choice. The wiring is a VERY legitimate complaint - the cables are routed quite well and tied/braided very neatly, considering there are nine wires plus extenders in there, so no, 'garage hack job' is a gross exaggeration, but certainly a little sleeve/heatshrink would go a very long way to make it look finished, so I would agree on that point too - shame on Puget for not adding that last finishing touch.[/citation]

Well, how much do you think system builders pay for 120mm fan grills? :)
Hint: $0.25 is a generous figure.

As for the radiator, I'm more at odds with the mounting.
A custom side panel case with the radiator built-in would be what I would do. You lose maybe 2 degrees C in cooling efficiency, but you have tons of thermal safety margin still.
I can even make in my garage an absolutely beautiful integrated radiator with a plasma cutter, TIG welder, and some sheet metal.
In fact, any decent sheet metal shop can.

I still consider anything with exposed color wires a "garage hack job" because I can do that in my garage..
I would expect at least a plastic wire moulding, shrinkwrap, etc for the fans.
At best, maybe 4 180mm fans or something that looks sleek and OEM- not something that screams "I got all these parts from newegg!"
 
[citation][nom]zads[/nom]Well, how much do you think system builders pay for 120mm fan grills? Hint: $0.25 is a generous figure.As for the radiator, I'm more at odds with the mounting. A custom side panel case with the radiator built-in would be what I would do. You lose maybe 2 degrees C in cooling efficiency, but you have tons of thermal safety margin still. I can even make in my garage an absolutely beautiful integrated radiator with a plasma cutter, TIG welder, and some sheet metal. In fact, any decent sheet metal shop can. I still consider anything with exposed color wires a "garage hack job" because I can do that in my garage..I would expect at least a plastic wire moulding, shrinkwrap, etc for the fans. At best, maybe 4 180mm fans or something that looks sleek and OEM- not something that screams "I got all these parts from newegg!"[/citation]


Fair enough - Maybe with the profits they should invest in a plasma cutter or two - come to think of it so should I. Or send them your resume. Who knows? Part of the $16000 could be yours next time. But I doubt they get an order like this every week, so just in case, don't quit your day job. 😉
 
How can this not have a Raid 0+1 for that cash? and SSD anyone? Did we go back in time?
 
This goes out to Fear3d and dmmcarron>>>>

First let me say this: I dont give a rats stinky butt where you used to flip burgers or toss pizza dough in the air...their is a reason that small mom and pop places dont make the big time, one of those reasons( in business) is because they do not or choose not to purchase in bulk,have crappy food turn around times, and usually not enough workers to handle traffic that comes through the door.
The result of this is: They are unable to provide their customers with better prices for their menu selections and be competitive. So in pizza terms that means that Pizza Hut will sell a whole hell of alot more pizza than your roach infested hole in the wall of a pizza shop. (Incase you cant tell I hate small mom and pop pizza shops with crappy tasting cardboard pizza that they like to push off as NewYork style crap.) (Incase you cant tell I hate NewYork style Pizza)

Second: Puget is obviously making money or they wouldnt still be here, Right? Right, so the fact of the matter is that I happen to read an article about a $6,000 dollar machine that is priced at $16,000.00 and it makes me flip my lid.

Why you ask?? Heres why , because I believe in the Old Japanese way of doing business, and that is this "Whatever craft you choose , you master it, and you take pride in it, and when you sell it, you price it with honor and knowledge knowing that it's worth every penny it costs. The quality and craftsmanship you put into your products will make sure that people keep coming back to you."

American auto makers used to think the same way, then they started on a different path, a path of greed, and lust for every single penny they could squeeze out of their captured American buyer. But then something happened, Japan started offering their vehicles, and soon Americans had a choice, they could buy elsewhere and even get better quality, cooler styling, longer life spans and better warranties as well, all for just a few thousand more than the Americans were offering, and soon Toyota is the number one car seller in America..Why, because they stuck to making quality, long lasting excellently crafted masterpieces of automotive design,and Americans learned to trust them. Their prices arent gouged now because they are the best, they have just as many employees as any other automotive manufacturer, but they arent begging the US government for money now, like GM and Chrysler, and soon to be FORD. They are offering the best product out there at reasonable prices, and still have people coming to their dealerships to buy cars.

What I am getting at is that PUGET has every right in the world to mark up there products to whatever level they choose, but in the end they will suffer defeat and failure due to their price gouging and money lusting, because their customers will have buyers remorse, and not come back, wondering all the while could I have paid much much less than I did for this. Once they do realize how badly they have been swindled, they will spread the news and soon, Puget will have dug it's own grave, just like the Automotive manufacturers of America. Your can only rip people off for so long until the world rips back.

If they produced excellent quality systems and backed them with honor, and maybe made 2,000.00 profit on each system instead of 4000.00+. Maybe, just maybe more people would buy their products, shifting the balance between cost to operate and profit margin per system, bringing in more system orders (like Toyota did with their cars) and being able to maintain a slow and steady climb to the top, instead of a Lets take em for everything they got attitude. Selling computers and cars is all about two things.. Repeat business my friends, and word of mouth..

I hope you can understand me better now.
 
[citation][nom]dragoncyber[/nom]This goes out to Fear3d and dmmcarron>>>>(text removed for space considerations)..I hope you can understand me better now.[/citation]

Wow. It's ok dude - relax.

FYI I'm a bit more perceptive than you may think and I understood what you meant the first time. I just disagree with you that they 'dishonorably' ripped the guy off - it was his choice, I'm sure he had a say in the design, and Puget offers a lifetime labor warranty. They didn't hide the costs, make a story up, pretend this was the ONLY way to do this, slap a bunch of things together pretending it's the industry standard and then stick him with the bill, as far as I know. I DON'T think other boutiques would be much different - maybe a thousand here or there - but that money was clearly no object for the client (I'm sure if they said $25,000 the buyer would have declined). Whether YOU like the result of the build or not isn't relevant.

I remember a guy whose Falcon NW laptop was painted with the same paint as his Lamborghini. They even called in the same guy who painted the car to do it. I have NO idea what the price tag on that was, but I can imagine the same firestorm of posts cropping up if this were featured. After all, a local bodyshop could PROBABLY do the same for a fraction of the cost and certainly get the color right. Falcon is a top-notch builder with a red-carpet service, and if clients have the means, so be it - let them have their way.

I have written several long responses to some folks regarding the test of time for the system - mostly about the build choices - whether this and similar things will be an albatross to Puget has yet to be seen - you may be right, who knows. I am not so quick to jump to conclusions however - especially in such an undiplomatic way. And from the looks of it, because of this, most of what I wrote turned out to be corroborated well. Of course, I also do my research before posting (usually - if I don't want to look like a moron).

Incidentally they've been around for almost ten years. And it's not like they're the long-dead Lieberman computers back from the grave again or something like that. Certainly they do have repeat customers - not folks with too much easy cash and no brains at all, and seem to have a decent track record. They don't seem honorless or shady to me, anymore than VoodooPC or Alienware or whichever 'extortionist' boutique vendor you choose. Arguing about the level of high-margin, low-volume profits ($2000 vs $4000) leads nowhere - your OPINION is that it is too much. Fine - that's your prerogative to FEEL that way.

I don't take sides for the most part, but if you want to know what catches MY attention is the lack of measured reactions from ostensibly intelligent people (yourself for example) experienced in this stuff. If you've been around the block (15 years for you in this hobby/trade/craft as you say), this is not a run-of-the-mill build, but cannnot be the most outrageous thing ever sold in the PC world you've seen, either, and while it's overpriced, there isn't a detectable scent of "scam" on it that I can see. Incidentally, Puget has a blog about this here.

BTW as a side point I understand your car analogy in principle but while the US auto makers have churned out some lemons in the past, so has everyone - their floundering comes more from long-term incompetent management coupled with conceding to decades of excessive demands from the UAW which during a bad recession was too much to bear - not really because they were hoodwinking the public with gilded junk for as long as possible. This point is arguable at some level and not for this forum but few cool-headed, non-far-left economists dispute this so in the future I'd pick a better example.

I also SYMPATHIZE with your defensive remarks - after making such damning statements Jon Bach came in to set the record straight (if you believe him, that is), leaving for a lot of backpedaling. We've all enjoyed that foot-in-mouth position at one point. But really, perhaps the best thing is to ADMIT you got ahead of yourself, spoke too soon, and had something to learn from it. 10 years is enough time to look like they hare solid, but again, if they're around in five, promise to eat your words.

Also since you have the Japanese motif going I'd say check out Killernotebooks.com - they should make you happy.

This is the last I'll write on this thread so I'll not annoy anyone else with walls of text.

This is getting overdone anyway - I don't work for them and I have bigger fish to fry in the coming weeks. Good night folks.
 
why the hell use 2 x Raptors in RAID1?????? Raid0 those suckers and backup the "important" stuff onto those RAID1 or RAID5 setup's.

Should really have used like scsi or sas 15k RPM drives in raid0.....

still, a monster machine.

How far off would an i7 system be - i thought they were expensive enough.... (and no not for gaming - video and general etc)
 
oops someone beat me to the punch

but second the lack of SSD's and shit - that generally fast feeling comes from SSD's more then processor/ram etc (gaming not included) - a fresh install on even the ASUS EEE's with those 8gb drives feel quicker then my Q6600 desktop machine.
 
hey 16k for that ?
i have to say im not impressed a bit
for that kind of money i would expected a custom made case !!!!!!!
build it from scratch made it unique the case i mean even paint it by hand in an artist gallery
 
Well, for 16k I'd expect a blow and a handshake from the president's mistress once I took ownership of the PC, but we all have our different expectations. 😉 Guy who makes lots of money selling fractal art got a system in which he can make more art faster and hence make even more money, seems like a win win situation to me. All the haters can STFU and go back to downloading pr0n on their $4k PC's now.
 
[citation][nom]dragoncyber[/nom]their is a reason that small mom and pop places dont make the big time, one of those reasons( in business) is because they do not or choose not to purchase in bulk,have crappy food turn around times, and usually not enough workers to handle traffic that comes through the door. The result of this is: They are unable to provide their customers with better prices for their menu selections and be competitive. So in pizza terms that means that Pizza Hut will sell a whole hell of alot more pizza than your roach infested hole in the wall of a pizza shop.[/citation]

Funny you'd say that...because the place that I was refering to was a pizza hut, and not a "mom and pop place." And unfortunately, the entire point that I was trying to make went entirely over your head. First thing I tried to explain is that I am in *no way* defending the $16k Puget system. I still haven't bothered to add up the costs, and I don't care to. I wouldn't care if they'd sold it for $25k. I didn't buy it, wouldn't buy it, and never will buy it. Somebody did, so they obviously were happy with it.

The point that I was trying to make is that you can't just look at a business and assume that their only expense is the material cost of their products. In most cases, that is the least of their costs. It has nothing to do with honor, nationality, pizza, or cars....it's just the simple fact that buildings, equipment, advertising, utilities, and employees don't pay for themselves. Not only that, but you can't possibly see money the way that they do. Even if they made $3,000 worth of pure profit in that sale...it's not the same to them as it is to you. What if they have 10 employees to pay? At most everybody makes $300. That being said, they'd have to sell four $16,000 every week, just for their employees to make an "average" annual income. And that's only "average" in some states. And then, you're not accounting for the owner of the company to even make money.

These are entirely theoretical numbers, but assume that Puget has 10 full time employees that each make $24 per hour. Assume that they have an office and a warehouse that costs $15,000 a month combined, for either rent or mortgage...this is likely actually too low of a number. Then assume that their utility bills combined are $7,000 dollars monthly. Assume that they spend $4,000 a month advertising(this is very likely way too low, because a full page add in PC Gamer costs like $14,000 just by itself...) And lets assume that they had to purchase equipment and furniture and such. Tables and workstations and shelves and all such things don't typically come with a building....nor do tools and testing equipment. We'll say that they pulled out a loan when the business started, and they pay $2,000 a month on it(this is likely too low of a number too). Then we'll assume that they can build a pc for half of what they sell it for, so a 50% material cost. They have to reach $37,600 *after* material cost to keep the business running. Which means they have to sell $67,600 worth of PCs just to break even. But that's assuming that the President of the company wants to work for free. He probably wants atleast $100k a year, so that means that they have to sell $75,933 worth of PCs just to break even and ensure that everybody gets paid. If we were to assume that their average customer is buying pcs for $2,500, then they have to sell over 30 PCs a month, marking them up 100% to break even. But what if their customers are only purchasing $500 pcs? Then they have to sell 150 PCs to break even and make sure that the President gets paid. This is an over-simplified example of how things work, and some of the numbers probably aren't realistic. Some are probably too high, and some too low. But I am just trying to explain as simply as possible that you can't just look at the cost of the materials that are in the PC. There are so many other things that a legit business has to pay for, and all of their costs increase as their volume does.

As far as your rant about Japanese cars go....you are wrong in most ways. ALL of the car companies are having trouble right now, due to economic recession. The Japanese dealers are laying people off left and right too. And not to get into a debate about which country makes better cars...it's beside the point. The reason that Japanese cars got so popular is because they catered to the mainstream audience better. They were cheap, they were efficient, and they had the most bang for the buck. But if you look at it in terms of computers....computers like yours would actually be an example of an american muscle car moreso than a japanese car. High end computers aren't cheap, they aren't power efficient, they aren't as quiet, and higher end components are EXPONENTIALLY a worse value...the higher you go. I.e. the gain you get from running two GTX 295s is much much less for $500 than the gain would be for like $140 going from integrated graphics to a HD4850 or something. More money for less of a performance gain and much more heat and energy consumption is less value. So if you really wanna make a car analogy, the japanese cars are like $400 emachines or something from wal-mart...and the loud, gas guzzling, american sports cars are computers like ours.
 
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