What Does A $16,000+ PC Look Like, Anyway?

[Guest]

As it turns out, after installing Norton Anti-Virus, it runs like a single core Pentium III 🙂

 

[palladin9479]

A bit wrong here. They can, and faster than CPUs.

You KNOW very well that I was responding to those people who think "3D Rendering Performance" is high scores on things like Crysis and Fallout 3. I'm well aware of CUDA and the ability of parallel performance on modern 3D video cards, but the problem is that although they have a crap ton of calculation units, each unit is not very strong.

You need to be able to do long math (64 bit at the shortest) to calculate a ray trace off a single point light source. Its a bunch of math that is done in series (each ray can be a separate series) to figure out the final value of light, current 3D cards are unable to touch that for real time, or near real time rendering of anything but the simplest scenes. Now the current GFX card makers are going in this direction, and I honestly see them implementing the special instructions in hardware to allow video cards to do the math much faster then generic CPUs can. This may take another two or three generations (first to get it working, second and third to perfect it) to become available for serious work.

Remember this is NOT a home users system, this is a commercial system used to make money and run a business. Business's have special needs, and in this case is was the complete reduction in noise combined with massive parallel processing and highly reliable memory and HDD storage. Also I'm willing to bet a large portion of my salary that the highest cost was NOT the hardware, but the LABOR involved with all the custom work and special design considerations. Labor is the most expensive part of running most business's, and its something the home enthusiast does on their own (and thus OEM systems appear almost double the price).

 

[gtoz]

He just want more of everything as possible. perhaps if there are many more multicore opterons available (16 core????) he'll picked them up and make 64 core opterons rig. provided somebody made 10 cpu motherboard, then we'll have ridiculous 640 core running on a real V8 radiator, powered by diesel generator set.

 

[zodiacfml]

i'm not surprised for the price and setup, the owner could be earning enough, that the price did not matter. i've known a lot who works with computers but can't build one, then buys the expensive parts without taking consideration price per performance.

 

[neiroatopelcc]

This could look like a nice system for a terminal server solution! If anyone's got a couple spare they don't know what to use for, send em to me!

 

[Guest]

Yeah, but will it run Crysis.

 

[neiroatopelcc]

not with a gts it won't. But perhaps in software rendering ?

 

[monkeysweat]

I agree with CList, why spend thousands of $$ when a couple hundred on high quality cables & put this in the basement or something, I have a flat panel TV mounted on the wall of my livingroom,,but didnt want to have a bulky cabinet, so I bought a couple 12' HDMI & Component cables, IR Repeater & built a solid shelf in the basement to hold my components cost me less than a cheap cabinent & I don't have the noise or bulkiness in same room.

 

[fancarolina]

For that much money why is he using VelociRaptors in it where are the SCSI or SAS 15K RPM drives?

 

[justaguy]

I just come back to the cost of having it water cooled versus the cost of having it in a soundproof containment of some kind. He's an artist who wants to show off his rig? I didn't see any blacklights or neon fluids in there!?

The age of it does explain the cost versus today, when Moore's Law has had its way with some of the components. Personally, that's still a ton to spend on a non-silent solution.

The client sounds like a pretty particular fellow, so when in business, "The cusotmer is always right" applies, but dang. Cabling it from another room or putting it in a soundproof enclosure would have accomplished the goal just as well. Or you could have modded up one of these for the extra CPU's:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/noiseless-computing,741.html

Thanks for stopping in to explain-definitely the right call, even if a defense attorney or PR firm would argue with that point.

 

[Guest]

I am with Luscious and Palladin9479. 1 loop with 1 pump is NOT going to last too long at any speed. The last cpu is going to get cooking under long term loads. All them drives(VRaps), ram, plus the video is going to build up heat FAST inside the case.

 

[pyrus0mg]

The price is far from reasonable and if I could somehow discover a word stronger than ridiculous I would use it in terms of describing that price point.

The hardware isn’t worth anymore than $5000.00 of the cost and you couldn't convince any intelligent soul that the customization is worth $11,000.00. The only thing Puget has accomplished is successfully increasing their profits to an extreme in an almost thief like manner.

 

[kaisergimmel]

nothing compaired to 53ghz in one desktop case:
http://www.heise.de/cebit/bilderstrecke/567/3/nt520b13

 

[dragoncyber]

Just thought I would add in something interesting here: Concerning PRICE

I went on Puget's website and built the same computer that I have at home, except for the fact that they dont allow dual power supplies which I have, they dont offer a dual 26" Samsung monitor setup, they use a brand called "CTL" which are garbage. And they dont sell the Cooler Master HAF932 case which I also have for my home system. So I picked the biggest case they had in comparison, which according to some websites Puget has Overpriced by 100.00.

Also my system has two Raid 0 arrays with 640gb Each,
and my memory is 12 gb of OCZ (lifetime warrantied) DDR3 1600mhz
running @ 8-8-8-24.Unfortunately Puget only offers Kingston X Gaming ram DDR3 @ 1333mhz which I thought strange considering their performance heritage.

Anyways on to the nitty gritty:

My current home machine has these spec's:

Intel Core i7 920 (overclocked to 3.2ghz on AIR Rock Solid)
(better Cooler coming soon for higher overclock)
with a 1366 socket mounted Thermal Take V1 cpu cooler.
12GB OCZ LifeTime Warranty Ram running @ 1600mhz @ 8-8-8-24
Asus P6t Deluxe i7 Motherboard (Awesome Board guys)
2x BFG GTX295 in "QUAD SLI" (works great by the way)
(4)320 GB Seagate barracuda 16mb Cache drives setup in Dual Raid "0" Arrays. (This is about performance not safety guys)
X-Fi Fatality Extreme PCI Sound
Cooler Master Haf 932 Supertower case.
Red LED's and 4 120mm Red Fans + one huge one 1 in the front.
(2)20x Samsung dvd/rw drives
Two power Supplies totaling 1850watts (needed some juice left over
(2)26" Samung LCD Monitors @ 1920x1200.
Running Windows Vista Ultimate 64bit


Okay my total system cost and(1) full day build time was about $3,700.00 with taxes.

The same speced out system with only a few variations in product brand was $7,600+ not counting shipping cost and only a 1 year warranty.

I rest my case. The pricing system Puget Systems uses is not of this World, because on Planet Puget 100% markup is standard everyday practice, and charging you your new born daughter for their assembly cost, is the norm..

Have a Nice Day......7,600 dollars people...WTF?!?!?!?!

 

[dragoncyber]

One MORE THING!!!

THATS A $4000 Dollar MARKUP!!!

 

[Guest]

If you don't have experience purchasing commercial equipment then you need to get off the talk of the price. This customer had specific needs and the markup wasn't bad at all considering they needed to pay their employees, guarantee the product, support the product,customize the system(this isn't something you slap together with parts you buy from newegg). I'd want a lot of markup too. The system had to be custom designed with some fabricated parts and tested. This could take quite awhile and in the meantime they do need to make a profit otherwise why be in business. 16K is nothing for a business system with that much power and that doesn't just roll off an assembly line.

 

[Guest]

This machine would be great for the new Adobe CS4, sweet. I could easily eat up all that ram...my 4 gigs just aint enough. Maya could easily use all those cores and ram while rendering as well as CS4.

And about the video card.....Nvidia is the way to go when using Adobe products right now.

 

[Guest]

That's the guy who runs piratebay.

 

[dmccarron]

[citation][nom]dhg72[/nom]If you don't have experience purchasing commercial equipment then you need to get off the talk of the price. This customer had specific needs and the markup wasn't bad at all considering they needed to pay their employees, guarantee the product, support the product,customize the system(this isn't something you slap together with parts you buy from newegg). I'd want a lot of markup too. The system had to be custom designed with some fabricated parts and tested. This could take quite awhile and in the meantime they do need to make a profit otherwise why be in business. 16K is nothing for a business system with that much power and that doesn't just roll off an assembly line.[/citation]


Absolutely Right dhg72 - I am getting a bit weary of these folks talking about the Puget 'ripoff' too. Other builders have their premiums too. Falcon NW charges like $2000 just for a good paint job. Alienware, Voodoo, WidowPC, you name it - are they any different either?

Does Saks 5th Ave lower their prices because of a sale at Macy's?

Folks, there's a reason why certain places are called "boutiques" - and a reason certain people/entities buy there. It's not YOUR cup of tea to pay a builder a premium for a custom system just like I wouldn't spend $900 on a leather jacket. You build everything yourself and so do I, so I'd never pay a dime for someone to make me a machine but if I made $100K+ a year and were BUSY and doing well at my job, and didn't have the time or interest to get my hands dirty and/or learn this hobby so I could make such a unique computer I'd be more than happy to shell out the money for a $15K to $20k custom rig I liked to look at (I think the radiator is nice looking, even if some think it's an eyesore) for the work i was doing if it suited me.

If you think about it a high-performance Mercedes is a waste of money too to a muscle-car hobbyist who could build a performance monster himself for far less (since that's his interest, not the luxury), and to the average person the performance is nice and the extra elegance and status is great but isn't worth the $30000 premium. But it is to SOME people. Are they getting ripped off? I think they know what they are getting for their money. And I don't believe that EVERYONE, especially a client like this, is such a senseless idiot regarding computers to fall for a price gouge just because by comparison I am an "in-the-know veteran" who's been at it for so long - that's elitist. Sure, they probably know nothing about lapping or cable sleeving, but I know nothing about porting a cylinder head or how to make jewelery, yet I can still appreciate a hot rod or a nice bracelet.

Yes, it's very obvious that much of the argument here is about the needless expense of the unorthodox cooling solution over something more mundane and equally adequate, as well as the substantial parts markup. But factory-tinted windows and auto-adjusting leather seats on that new roadster shouldn't REALLY cost $10000 more either, should they?

Here's an idea for everyone here who thinks Puget and other boutiques are ripping rich idiots off. Bring the real deal - quit talking about it go do it yourself - blow everyone away - make your fortune - go market yourself, at a vastly more competitive price. Buy the parts, make the build, sell the product. Plenty of people do this - they're a few cuts above the "whitebox" builders but not super-exclusive (PC torque, Hypersonic, heck, even Dell to some extent with their WOW XPS notebook and such, etc, etc). I'll bet even if you had some reputation, after several years of selling, maybe, at best a half a dozen systems of this nature among a modest number of $3000 middle-enthusiast-gamer-level rigs you'd build, including the labor to design, the accountability of warranty, all the preliminary testing, etc, it might show you that even though you LIKE the job, it's not all gravy after all.

Then again, maybe you'll prove me wrong - if so, I might give you a call in ten years for my rig - in that case congrats and all the best to you.

 

[ocd]

EPIC FAIL

Fine example of someone with lots of money and not knowing how to use it.
If you spend this much on anything, it would be foolish not to be actively involved in the process. This guy should have come here first. Way to go Puget! The party is at the bank.

 

[rexter]

Machine like that can be use for Facial Recognation System.

Casisno's or other high security areas would be the candidates for such machine.

I do agree that the system could be designed better though. If I'm paying for it myself, I would ask them to re-design the cooling system.

- Wouldn't it be amazing if the owner just wanted to use it for his e-mails and watch videos and that he just gonna stick the case underneath his $40000 bomb-proof desk? .)

 

[iliya1]

The thing that struck me the most was the REALLY cheap hand tools the guy is using in the photographs. .99 cent screwdriver. 1.99 dollar hacksaw. Ryobi cordless drill. I'm sure they work fine, it just seems funny to me a company that builds such expensive equipment would use such cheap tools.

 

[justaguy]

"16K is nothing for a business system with that much power and that doesn't just roll off an assembly line."

I wouldn't hire somebody with that way of looking at cost to be a manager for my business. That attitude doesn't belong in business purchasing, but it has a place-consumer ultra high-end.

I have some experience running a business and also with transactions up to the 7 figure range. This customer may have gotten exactly what he wanted, and Puget may have done exactly what they were asked. I'm not saying anything other than it's an unusual solution and an unusual circumstance. There really is no denying that it would have been far cheaper with many solutions besides custom water cooling. Some of those solutions would have kept the noise equally low and still saved thousands. Evidently money was no object to the buyer, so that's fine.

If you have the money, please feel free to spend it-that is how luxury goods work in an economics sense. On the ultra-high end, lowering prices will actually hurt sales because price = prestige and prestige is the selling point for the uber rich.

I wonder if this will be the last time that somebody submits this sort of article for publication. The customer was happy, the builder was happy, then they published it and 6 pages of comments about how the H20 cooling could be better and the price broke out.

 

[TNM]

Hm,

Not too impressed. I might not have 16 cores, but I got a good old quad extreme (the 135TDP version), 8GB memory, 3x500GB, 4x1TB drives and a 30GB SSD (just for fun and fast game loading) as well as 4870 SLI setup myself.

I would not be surprised if it is at least as silent as this right.
It does not run at a cool 45C under load I have to admit, but it does not overheat either with the one exception of running furmark with SLI enabling. That thing pushes the VRMs on the 4870s over the edge, but it survives a few hours of folding or crysis without a problem.

It took a fair bit of experimentation to get it reasonably silent, but I think the total system cost is far from 15K.

A good heavy and solid case to start with (Antec P180B), extra accustic dampening, softmounting of drives and fans, a couple of Acellero S1 GPU coolers and 5x120mm fans (and 2 smaller fans) spinning at low speed (1000rpm and less) to get the right airflow through the thing without making too much mechanical noise.

Again, I haven't got 4 quad core, but the one I got is much worse than the ones used in this build, and I got the crossfire 4870s to deal with, which really makes things darned awkward.

 

[shady28]

The only things that make sense here is some kind of rendering or else database back end. It isn't anywhere near mainframe performance btw. HP's midrange HP-UX servers support up to 64 processors. The high end enterprise boxes have 128+ processors these days.