What HP Needs for Slate to Take on iPad, and Win

[Xaake]

[citation][nom]tuannguyen[/nom]What you say is true, but it doesn't address the fundamental issue, which is my point😛eople like you, who know how to work your way around computers, do not make up the majority of the population, therefore if HP only creates a device for this demographic, it is doomed to be crushed by the iPad. HP needs to make and support Slate to be viable for the masses of people "don't know," because for the most part, people who do know, already have a full size laptop and desktop and have no need for a tablet.Special cases, such as your self and many who read Tom's Hardware, are not the revenue generating mass that HP needs in order to sustain Slate's life for years to come--the more "common" population is what they need to design for and attract, first, thereby sustaining income to continue to make Slate and future Slates a success.Got it now? Cheers./ Tuan[/citation]

I understand what you are saying Tuan, but you seem to think that the demographics would be people without any computer experience at all, is not those people hard to find?

What I mean is that most people DO have an ordinary computer at home, and somehow they HAVE managed to install iTunes, Winamp, Messenger, Office, Vuze and a bunch of games etc. Why would those people have such a hard time installing the same applications on a tablet?

Then again I agree with the point of it being better to have specially adapted programs that is known to work well with a touchpad.

 

[tuannguyen]

[citation][nom]kartu[/nom]Following this logic Microsoft Windows should have been "crushed" by Apple's countless OSes long time ago, shouldn't it?Most PCs in this world come with Windows . Now Windows 7 is already one of the most popular OSes. How would having the same OS on tablet as on desktop harm HP? And remember, Win7 was designed with touchscreen in mind.[/citation]

No you are simplifying things. Take a look at all the past well known tablets to the "masses." Oh wait, the masses don't know any well known tablets.

Also, you need to look deep into the history and strategies by Microsoft at the time Windows took off and what the landscape during those years were like for computing. Back then, Microsoft was able to grab the mindshares of businesses and pros, because for the most part, people didn't have computers in their homes yet. This is vastly different from today, when everyone has one, even the commoner who doesn't know anything outside of email + Facebook.

But through the power of the internet, social networking, and popularity + incredible marketing, Apple can, using the market place of today, to get to these people.

Cheers.
/ Tuan

 

[tuannguyen]

[citation][nom]Xaake[/nom]I understand what you are saying Tuan, but you seem to think that the demographics would be people without any computer experience at all, is not those people hard to find?What I mean is that most people DO have an ordinary computer at home, and somehow they HAVE managed to install iTunes, Winamp, Messenger, Office, Vuze and a bunch of games etc. Why would those people have such a hard time installing the same applications on a tablet?Then again I agree with the point of it being better to have specially adapted programs that is known to work well with a touchpad.[/citation]
Not quite, you're paraphrasing what I said but not accurately. The majority of consumers, could care less about specs. Really. That's why the Best Buys out there are filled with people browsing through for cheaply made netbooks and generally get sucked into buying lame extended warranties. These people know what to do with a computer in their own scope, but they're not informed and tech savvy. And these people are the majority of users. Just consumers who want to use, and don't know enough to care.

We cannot use our own group of savvy people, as a measurement for the masses.

Installing those same apps, like MSN, Winamp, etc. on a tablet isn't the problem I was addressing in the article. The problem is that Apple has a huge 1-up on the "masses'" perception of ease of use.

If you were in HP's shoes and really wanted to make Slate a grand slam, you cannot take anything for granted and make any old assumptions that have been made in the past and failed. The Slate isn't competing with another tablet, it is competing with a whole culture/ecosystem/whatever you want to call it. It is competing with something far bigger than an iPad.

HP needs big guns, not worn out, previously used stuff.

Cheers.
/ Tuan

 

[mj4358]

[citation][nom]tuannguyen[/nom]Not quite, you're paraphrasing what I said but not accurately. The majority of consumers, could care less about specs. Really. That's why the Best Buys out there are filled with people browsing through for cheaply made netbooks and generally get sucked into buying lame extended warranties. These people know what to do with a computer in their own scope, but they're not informed and tech savvy. And these people are the majority of users. Just consumers who want to use, and don't know enough to care.We cannot use our own group of savvy people, as a measurement for the masses. Installing those same apps, like MSN, Winamp, etc. on a tablet isn't the problem I was addressing in the article. The problem is that Apple has a huge 1-up on the "masses'" perception of ease of use. If you were in HP's shoes and really wanted to make Slate a grand slam, you cannot take anything for granted and make any old assumptions that have been made in the past and failed. The Slate isn't competing with another tablet, it is competing with a whole culture/ecosystem/whatever you want to call it. It is competing with something far bigger than an iPad.HP needs big guns, not worn out, previously used stuff.Cheers./ Tuan[/citation]


HP does not have the resorces to make a product easy to use for the masses without cutting into the server R&D. Thats HP's bread and butter. The only true competator to Apple interms of quality and workmanship is Sony. They , Like Apple are in the consumer personnel computer biz. If Sony would let go of their penchant for weird propritery formats they could easily dominate Apple or atleast offer the PC world a Windows version Of Apple.
But see like I said before, The American consumer shops on price point. Most assume that because my computer has HDMI output and its $600 bucks that its a good deal while ignoring the fact that the hardware is subpar, software is poorly written, Bloatware....etc prevents them from enjoying their $600 PC for more than a yr with out Best Buy or some other trolling "PC fixit" company raping them on repair costs.
Unit the people shop based on Quality and standard , HP will always have to cut corners in order to compete.

 

[back_by_demand]

HP does not have a well built, well populated and well integrated applications repository and store.
HP does not have a multi-studio backed music and movies store.
HP does not have a widely populated books and magazines store.

1) It's Windows, so doesn't need one, you can buy or download freeware from anywhere you wish
2) If you absolutely must have one, I seem to remember that iTunes also works on Windows... so does the store for every other music or video digital distributor
3) I refer you to the answer above, Kindle works on PC, so does every other book/magazine distributor

 

[zybch]

* HP does not have a well built, well populated and well integrated applications repository and store.
So the fact that it can run 90% of all software out there is considered a drawback?

* HP does not have a multi-studio backed music and movies store.
So you can't install iTunes or Zune on HP's product?

* HP does not have a widely populated books and magazines store.
So you can't install the Kindle software, or use the net in the HP?

Yes, I know. My comment is redundant thanks to others saying the same things, but for gods sake, when are people going to wake up that the iPad is a total iFAD.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]zybch[/nom]* HP does not have a well built, well populated and well integrated applications repository and store.So the fact that it can run 90% of all software out there is considered a drawback?* HP does not have a multi-studio backed music and movies store.So you can't install iTunes or Zune on HP's product?* HP does not have a widely populated books and magazines store.So you can't install the Kindle software, or use the net in the HP?Yes, I know. My comment is redundant thanks to others saying the same things, but for gods sake, when are people going to wake up that the iPad is a total iFAD.[/citation]
Well, seeing as I got marked down -2 for pointing out exactly the same things it doesn't bode well for you

 

[kartu]

[citation][nom]tuannguyen[/nom]Take a look at all the past well known tablets to the "masses." Oh wait, the masses don't know any well known tablets.[/citation]

I don't get your point. Tablets weren't sold in "mass" (neither now are they ultra popular, despite torrent of news surrounding iPad launch) because Jobbs didn't announce iPad?

If I remember correctly, a couple years ago, they cost like 2000$, which is quite an unusual price for a "mass" product. You simply can't sell that many pricey gadgets. On the other hand, there was no Apple involved in raising sales of notebooks/netbooks.

 

[irh_1974]

Doesn't Intel have a dedicated App Store?
Isn't iTunes compatible with Windows?
When did Amazon become Apple exclusive?

 

[back_by_demand]

Tuan

I understand what your article is trying to do, you are implying that the entire Tablet strategy is defined by its ability to present a no-brain front-end for any software or content.

iTunes has gone a long way to do this already, but do bear in mind that unless Apple can somehow convince people that iTunes ONLY works on Apple products, OR, remove support for iTunes from PC products forcing people to use Apple products, there will always be the choice of what hardware people use.

As far as the presentation above from HP with the OS, stating it is Win 7 with a HP touch-optimized UI, that only reinforces what I and several others have stated that it will look right from the get-go, similar to the way HTC phones use Touch-Flo as an overlay for Windows Mobile.

Lots of column inches are still to be filled on this subject but it is quite clear to me that HP and indeed other tablet makers aren't just releasing another tired revision of the same Windows tablets from the last 9 years. Thank you Apple for helping to give Windows tablets an advertising boost at exactly the time the hardware and software does what it was intended to do 9 years ago.

 

[evolve60]

I think the fact it uses a full blown OS really puts it at an vantage already who cares if it doesn't have an "App Store" or something like that it can run real apps that can do a hell of a lot more you can import stuff like movies and music from your desktop to it by flash card or syncing it with windows built in sync function. Overall the Slate is way way more flexible then the Ipad could ever be and to top it off, its priced better then the Ipad.

I honestly hope this catches on, but with all the hype surrounding the over sized Ipod touch this will go under the radar undetected by the mainstream users and only people such as ourselves will know about it, but then, how many of us actually need a tablet anyways.

 

[czar1020]

Say Ipad enough times and people will buy it... that is what apple is hoping for since it seems they are paying tom's bills atm.

 

[ianpac]

All HP has to do is make sure the front end is intuitive and responsive. That is the golden egg that Apple tapped into - make the GUI the main priority and the masses will be pleased and will forever worship you.

This is why Apple deliberately limits the functions available in their products. Anything which slows down the magical GUI is rejected i.e. flash support, multi-tasking etc. Just bamboozle the masses with slickness and they will be blind to the high price, the propriety hardware, inability to upgrade or replace, the lack of basic functions and compatibility.....the fact that even reviewers fall for this smoke and mirrors trick says it all.

 

[balister]

A) If you saw HP's internal notes, you would know that HP only launched the slate because there were mass rumors about Apple making a tablet for at least 6 months prior to CES (which is when the Slate made its debut). For HP to announce it, was all about TTM (time to market).

B) But look at it now, still only paper launched and unreleased. As proven by Nvidia with Fermi, announcements mean nothing. Delivery and well execution means everything.

Cheers.
/ Tuan

Tuan,

You do realize that HP had admitted that they've been sitting on the Slate now for atleast 3 years because until recently it would have cost too much for the general user (I remember seeing someone from HP quote it at $3k about 2 years ago if they had released it then). Until recently, the various components and operating systems have caught up to what HP had envisioned.

And sadly, paper launches have become the norm now. One could say that the introduction of the iPad by Apple back in late January was also a paper launch. And given some of the issues now starting to crop up (as one of the articles here shows problems with weak WiFi and overheating issues) Apple may have rushed to market to get the foothold, but it may ultimately cost them.

 

[cobra_comm@nder]

" Win7 was designed with touchscreen in mind."

"Windows 7 supports touch screens "at all levels of the OS" "from the ground up"."

I have used the HP TouchSmart with Win 7 and can tell you it is sh*t. If this is as good as as Win7 can do touch then Apple has already won.

One thing that fails to get mentioned in many of these discussions is how perfect Apple nailed the touch interface. No touch screen product of any kind I've tried has come close.

 

[eccentric909]

[citation][nom]cobra_comm@nder[/nom] If this is as good as as Win7 can do touch then Apple has already won. One thing that fails to get mentioned in many of these discussions is how perfect Apple nailed the touch interface. No touch screen product of any kind I've tried has come close.[/citation]

Then you haven't used a newer Palm Phone. I currently own one and prefer it's touchscreen to my girlfriend's iPhone touchscreen. To each their own though!

 

[eodeo]

i cant wait for the slate. i think we may have a winner.

and for the no apps store comment- are you crazy? windows has the largest app database on the planet. icrap will never come close to the same amount.

Now quality over quantity is always my personal preference, but as we all (or most of us) know, windows enjoys the best software available. So no problems here either.

 

[requiemsallure]

you forgot to mention that the ipad has steve jobs, not that i like the guy but, you have to admit he is good at marketing.

 

[tayb]

Based on what I'm reading above and my experience with Atom + Windows 7 there is no way that the HP Slate will be a better tablet experience than the iPad. The Atom just can't comfortably run Windows 7 in general much less Windows 7 with a probably poorly coded tablet UI pasted on top of it. I'm not sure Apple has the right idea putting a phone OS on the iPad but I know for sure putting a full fledged desktop OS on a device with low hardware specs like that is a mistake. Maybe if we had the ION platform but I don't see it.

As it stands I wouldn't buy either of these but, once again, if I absolutely was forced to purchase one of them it would be the iPad.

 

[mlopinto2k1]

They are both good units. Personally, I think... (not in a bad way), that if no one likes the iPad.. don't buy it. If you don't like the Slate, don't buy it. I am trying, really really trying to understand why so many users "bash" products. There is nothing wrong with the iPad. I could see if you bought the Prius and Toyota didn't help you.. bash away! It just seems like bashing is just a practice rather than a tool.

 

[excalibur1814]

[citation][nom]cobra_comm@nder[/nom] I have used the HP TouchSmart with Win 7 and can tell you it is sh*t. [/citation]

So, did you simply use it at the default windows settings or did you increase the dpi to 125% or even 150%? If you left it as standard then you missed something. I use a Dell Latitude XT (with SSD drive) and once you've updated the n-trig drivers and upped the dpi to 125%, EVERYTHING can easily be used with fingers. It's absolutely ideal and the best of both worlds.

Browsing is a joy, as is typing on the keyboard that can be expanded.

P.s. Did you own one of the Touchsmarts that overheats if you look at it? Latitude XT = Superior quality machine. A sales guy here has one and, well, it's a bag of cheap crap mass produced and prone to failure.

 

[excalibur1814]

Maybe, just maybe, wait for the devices to actually be released and then decide.

 

[cobra_comm@nder]

So, did you simply use it at the default windows settings or did you increase the dpi to 125% or even 150%? If you left it as standard then you missed something.

Yes, we tried everything to make it more usable but nothing was acceptable. But, you've just made the point of this article. Normal, "Best Buy", users of these products won't have the initiative, let alone the know-how, to make adjustments like that. It better work out of the box or it's done.

Then you haven't used a newer Palm Phone

Interesting. Of all the touch devices out there I will say the Palm is one of the few I have not used. Your comment makes me curious to check it out. I've heard other good things about it as well. Too bad Palm won't be around in 2 years.

 

[Dkz]

I don't get why someone would voluntary throw away that much cash on one of those big iphones, I'm talking about HP's as well.
it's like non-sense... innovation it's an excuse, innovation has a limit, when they charge you like twice as much as other device which does the same and more! you stop right there and you say NO!!, no to freaking pads! or no at least you charge like what? U$S50 more than a netbook, for the lack of keyboard and "commodities" it may bring? I don't know. The absence of keyboard for a person who is used to type really fast it's a pain in the butt.

 

[zybch]

[[citation][nom]ianpac[/nom]All HP has to do is make sure the front end is intuitive and responsive. That is the golden egg that Apple tapped into - make the GUI the main priority and the masses will be pleased and will forever worship you.[/citation]

I'm just worried about the stated 1Gb of RAM.
This simply ISN'T enough on a modern day piece of hardware that isn't crippled into running ONLY limited applications and giving no real flexibility. Bump it up to 2Gb and everything will be fine. 4Gb, I'm sure HP see that as giving people a reason to NOT get the new (2nd gen) HP slate when IT is released in a year after the first one is a runaway success.