What We Know About The GTX 2080 (And Why It May Not Matter)

[mattsafford]

Matt Safford investigates what we think we know about Nvidia's next-generation cards, and wonders if any of it matters--if the cards aren't affordable, anyway.

What We Know About The GTX 2080 (And Why It May Not Matter) : Read more

 

[Sam Hain]

I'm staying put with my 1080 Ti, regardless of the price-point of the next-gen... I'm (very) good right now at 1440p, even considering I'm still on a Z97/4790K.

 

[AgentLozen]

@Sam Hain
Your 4790K and 1080 Ti will both be relevant for years to come. There's no reason why the next generation Nvidia cards should force you to upgrade.

 

[dark_lord69]

"when the current gen is doing just fine."
Meh, I'm NOT happy with current hardware.

Why?
Virtual Reality

I want 4k per eye capability at an affordable price.

 

[Giroro]

Calling the hypothetical next cards GTX 20xx is dumb. Nvidia's current naming convention would make the next generation the GTX 11xx series.

 

[rubix_1011]

Calling the hypothetical next cards GTX 20xx is dumb. Nvidia's current naming convention would make the next generation the GTX 11xx series.

Logically, you are correct. But in reality, the best way to make the entire market aware of your new product is to change the overall name to be much different than what you currently have to offer.

 

[bgunner]

Question: We know why the price of GPU's have gone to the point obscene, coin mining and the lack of available stock to keep prices at a normal price ( minus the fact that GPU company's are making fortune and seem unwilling to do something about the price ). We know why the price of memory has skyrocketed, manufacturing issues that wiped out many of the modules that were made, these are both supply and demand issues, So Why are PSU prices now rising?

I am not in the market for a new PSU since mine is still fairly new and more than powerful enough to handle most GPU's in a Crossfire/SLI configuration but I am curious as to why. We know there is always some fluctuation in pricing, this is standard retail issues, so why does it seem like half of the component prices in a new build are raising or completely out of reach for some? (this next part is just speculation but many will understand why I'm making this observation and posing the question) Is there some sort of money grab plot going on in the industry causing some of the issues we are seeing especially with GPU's?

 

[Giroro]

Calling the hypothetical next cards GTX 20xx is dumb. Nvidia's current naming convention would make the next generation the GTX 11xx series.

Logically, you are correct. But in reality, the best way to make the entire market aware of your new product is to change the overall name to be much different than what you currently have to offer.

Sure, giving new product lines unique names can help with marketing. And in my opinion naming the current gen 10xx in the first place was probably a mistake as it implied some of their highest-end cards were designed for gaming at 1080p.
Regardless, Nvidia isn't out there marketing their new 2080 cards, that is just a name people have come up with to describe the next iteration of a current product line, so all you have to go on is what their were previously called. When Nvidia decides to break that convention entirely, it will probably be a much bigger change than "let's increase the number by a higher number than usual this year". If Nvidia decides to call their next cards 20xx, then they better actually do something big enough to make the next cards "1000 better" than the 10xx series.

What I think will actually end up happening, is Nvidia's next cards will just be a rename of their current cards with a slight overclock a significant price increase. The branding will probably emphasize either 4k or VR. Something like GTX 4k80 or GVR 1080 X. Either way, I wouldn't expect a proper next-gen card out of Nvidia until either the mining bubble pops or AMD puts out something more powerful than a 1080ti.

 

[AlphaCompton]

That's pretty good Justin, I was just thinking the same thing. I have a 980 GTX and was hoping to upgrade to a 1080 since I got a promotion in January but now with the crazy prices for GPU's I actually bought a PS4 Pro and am using my old PS4 in another room.
This just sounds like a crazy Removed headache. I feel like PC gaming lost horribly, I'm a big technology enthusiast and I feel really hurt that I can't continue tell people to build a good gaming pc right now. We always talk about how PC gaming is the best but right now it's absolutely unreasonable in pricing because of the most important component for gaming.
Here's hoping a new Titan comes out and the asshate miners just buy that instead and leave the 1180, 2080 or whatever for us.

 

[TJ Hooker]

So Why are PSU prices now rising?

I am not in the market for a new PSU since mine is still fairly new and more than powerful enough to handle most GPU's in a Crossfire/SLI configuration but I am curious as to why. We know there is always some fluctuation in pricing, this is standard retail issues, so why does it seem like half of the component prices in a new build are raising or completely out of reach for some? (this next part is just speculation but many will understand why I'm making this observation and posing the question) Is there some sort of money grab plot going on in the industry causing some of the issues we are seeing especially with GPU's?

The same people buying up GPUs for mining are also buying a ton of medium to high capacity PSUs to power their rigs. Doesn't seem to be much of a mystery to me.

 

[Sonickrunch]

Personally I think there is a lot of demand coming for proper 60fps 4k capability. Even a 1080ti can't put out 60fps at 4k at ultra settings in todays games, so personally I think there is a good new demand for the GPU segment to move forward. Now of course if you already have a 1080ti and it was a big purchase for you, I'm sure you can stick with it for quite some time but there's demand rising.

 

[Giroro]

So Why are PSU prices now rising?

Not Every PSU, just high capacity/efficiency PSUs that can run multiple GPUs in a mining rig.

so why does it seem like half of the component prices in a new build are raising or completely out of reach for some?

A big part of the problem is the DRAM 'shortage', as well as the flash shortage (although that's improving). GPUs, as well as many other PC components, depend on DRAM. Both of those shortages can be at least partially attributed to Samsung's continued refusal to increase production as demand increases. Samsung's competitors also don't ramp up (although a lot of them are far smaller). Why not? I'm not entirely sure, there is some possibility for collusion that I believe should be at least looked into.
I mention Samsung in particular because China is apparently investigating them on price-fixing claims for DRAM. The threat of investigation prompted Samsung to announce an increase to production (which makes them look guilty). But Samsung set timelines of several years until production is ready, at which point DDR4 will be practically obsolete.

Is there some sort of money grab plot going on in the industry causing some of the issues we are seeing especially with GPU's?

Well yes, there always is. The computer industry has always been dirty with price-fixing and collusion, especially on new technologies. It's happened before with LCD panels (which they got caught, notice how much cheaper TVs are now compared to 5 years ago?), DVD burners (they also got caught, I never did get the class-action settlement that I applied for). In '02 - '05, five companies (including Samsung) plead guilty to DRAM price fixing - its certainly possible for it to be happening again. The question is which companies have crossed the line far enough (yet) that they will get caught.
But is it GPUs in particular? I'm not so sure, at least not yet. I haven't heard of Nvidia/AMD increasing their MSRP or charging increased chip prices to their 3rd party partners. They don't seem to be profiting much off of the situation outside of increased overall sales. I do think they will increase MSRP on their next set of cards, though.

 

[spdragoo]

I think that demand is still going to be on the "bleeding edge" of gaming. Even if the number of gamers playing/expecting to be playing 60FPS@4K increased to 5 times the current number, we'd still be looking at maybe 5% of the gaming population, maybe 10% tops. That's far from being "mainstream", which means the 2080/1180/whatever the topline card will be named is still going to be astronomically priced...because the primary end-users are such a small group anyway.

Not that you even need a next-gen GPU to get that kind of performance. Sure, the 1080TI/Titan Xp don't guarantee 60FPS@4K in every game...but they are able to provide in some games (if not close to that in a majority of games). Heck, in Techspot's original review (https://www.techspot.com/review/1352-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti/), it delivered that performance in 11 of the 20 games they tested, & came close in 6 of the other games (all on Ultra/Extreme settings).

As for 60FPS@4K per eye VR...LOL, VR hasn't turned out to be anywhere as popular as it had been hyped, let alone at that high of a resolution.

 

[salgado18]

Also, Nvidia and AMD just announced ray-tracing tech to games, in a limited way. Until we can get real-time ray-tracing for the entire game, there will always be room for improvement.

 

[Barty1884]

So Why are PSU prices now rising? [/b]

Quite a few reasons.

1.Multi GPU setups need larger capacity PSUs
2. Mfg spending more time making larger capacity PSUs than before, slowing production of lower capacity models
3. Bulk shipments (including lower capacity units) being sent via air vs traditional sea freight (to be on shelves faster)

Among many other things, I'm sure.

 

[allawash]

So Why are PSU prices now rising?

Not Every PSU, just high capacity/efficiency PSUs that can run multiple GPUs in a mining rig.

so why does it seem like half of the component prices in a new build are raising or completely out of reach for some?

A big part of the problem is the DRAM 'shortage', as well as the flash shortage (although that's improving). GPUs, as well as many other PC components, depend on DRAM. Both of those shortages can be at least partially attributed to Samsung's continued refusal to increase production as demand increases. Samsung's competitors also don't ramp up (although a lot of them are far smaller). Why not? I'm not entirely sure, there is some possibility for collusion that I believe should be at least looked into.
I mention Samsung in particular because China is apparently investigating them on price-fixing claims for DRAM. The threat of investigation prompted Samsung to announce an increase to production (which makes them look guilty). But Samsung set timelines of several years until production is ready, at which point DDR4 will be practically obsolete.

Is there some sort of money grab plot going on in the industry causing some of the issues we are seeing especially with GPU's?

Well yes, there always is. The computer industry has always been dirty with price-fixing and collusion, especially on new technologies. It's happened before with LCD panels (which they got caught, notice how much cheaper TVs are now compared to 5 years ago?), DVD burners (they also got caught, I never did get the class-action settlement that I applied for). In '02 - '05, five companies (including Samsung) plead guilty to DRAM price fixing - its certainly possible for it to be happening again. The question is which companies have crossed the line far enough (yet) that they will get caught.
But is it GPUs in particular? I'm not so sure, at least not yet. I haven't heard of Nvidia/AMD increasing their MSRP or charging increased chip prices to their 3rd party partners. They don't seem to be profiting much off of the situation outside of increased overall sales. I do think they will increase MSRP on their next set of cards, though.

Also wouldn't surprise me if Samsung was worried about a bubble and refused to increase output just to have to decrease it if/when mining slows down considerably.

 

[Martell1977]

Watch the 11xx or 20xx (of whatever it's called), end up being a Pascal refresh. Would be hilarious, but hold to past generations.

 

[oldschoolbluesplayer]

* * * How the Market Might Improve* * * If Graphics Card Manufactures would not allow place like Newegg and Amazon to sell their cards "above MSRP" and just let them sell out...that would force the makers to increase production.

* Question: what happened to all those "Mining Only" Graphic Cards that EVGA...ASUS and MSI were going to make take that were talking about over a year ago ? ? ?

 

[Krazie_Ivan]

"I haven't heard of Nvidia/AMD increasing their MSRP or charging increased chip prices to their 3rd party partners."

there's more than 1 way to increase MSRP tho...
...remember when Nvid told us the coming gtx660 could meet/beat an HD7970? then they said 'no, wait, it's the gtx670 that compares!', and finally launched the series with the gtx680 being the HD7970's competitor. well, turned out all they did was put the high-end gtx*80 label on a mid-range Kepler die, simply because Kepler was that much faster then GCN. doing so allowed them to create 2 "new" product stack entries, by releasing fuller & uncut dies later as "Ti" & "Titan" at a FAR higher prices, effectively moving all their dies up the product stack by 2 steps within 2 generations. the current uncut die "Titan" labeled flagship product is basically what was once offered to us as a flagship gtx*80. the label "Ti" is 2nd-tier now, instead of gtx*70. the current gen gtx1080 is what was once a mid-range $240 product die. now, imagine where that places something like the $380 gtx1060, in terms of "value", when it should have been equivalent to the 1050 MSRP if the pre-Kepler naming-scheme had been continued...

so, there's your 300% increase in MSRP.

 

[Barty1884]

* * * How the Market Might Improve* * * If Graphics Card Manufactures would not allow place like Newegg and Amazon to sell their cards "above MSRP" and just let them sell out...that would force the makers to increase production.

* Question: what happened to all those "Mining Only" Graphic Cards that EVGA...ASUS and MSI were going to make take that were talking about over a year ago ? ? ?

MSRP, in and of itself, is the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price - so selling above that is out of the manufacturer's control...... I'd suspect there would even be legalities around forcing a price below market value.

the amount for which something can be sold on a given market.

Arguably, it would be a hindrance to retailers business if whoever (MSI, ASUS etc) attempted to force them to sell below market value.


As for the dedicated mining cards, I don't believe they're available via "traditional" retail channels.... but they exist:
https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards/MINING-RX470-4G/
https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards/MINING-P106-6G/
https://www.gigabyte.com/Graphics-Card/NVIDIA-P106-100

 

[TJ Hooker]

* * * How the Market Might Improve* * * If Graphics Card Manufactures would not allow place like Newegg and Amazon to sell their cards "above MSRP" and just let them sell out...that would force the makers to increase production.

How would this help, or force manufacturers to increase production? It's already obvious that supply isn't keeping up with demand, and going from having a few, overpriced cards on the shelves to having no cards available wouldn't change that.

 

[szore88]

Just buy an open box card online at Microcenter.

 

[BaRoMeTrIc]

Nvidia is not stupid enough to alienate gamers they won't price the 2080 above $800 max, it starts with the partnership program it gives nvidia more control over pricing and allocation of cards to ensure gamers get their hands on them. While they appreciate miners buying up stock and making them nice fiscal earnings. They know gamers are their bread and butter. We are the ones who upgrade every 2-4 years regardless of cryptocurrency prices.

 

[10tacle]

I'm staying put with my 1080 Ti, regardless of the price-point of the next-gen... I'm (very) good right now at 1440p, even considering I'm still on a Z97/4790K.

Exactly what I have. In fact I'm in overkill with a 1080 Ti on my Z97/4690K since my 1440p monitor is only 60Hz. But I do plan on upgrading to a G-sync 144Hz this year. Prices seem to be coming down on some of them finally. The hardware setup we have should be good for two more years easy.

Interesting because Guru3D just did a story about how a seven year old Sandy Bridge i7 2600K setup is holding up with today's GTX 1080. Well at 1440p, right up there with an 8th Gen i7 8700K. Game bench pages start here:

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_sandy_bridge_core_i7_2600kthe_2018_review_time_for_an_upgrade,18.html

Watch the 11xx or 20xx (of whatever it's called), end up being a Pascal refresh. Would be hilarious, but hold to past generations.

Actually that was a rumor floating out there by some speculators this time last year. They were saying Nvidia might do a Pascal refresh to be released late last summer/early fall to hold over another year for Volta. Similar to what Nvidia did with Kepler with the GTX 6xx -> GTX 7xx refresh and Fermi GTX 4xx ->5xx refresh. They never refreshed the Maxwell 9xx series or Tesla 2xx series.

 

[Barty1884]

The CPU (within reason) matters less as you push up resolution, so the Guru3D results are not surprising at all.

I run a 4790K/Z97 and a 1060, so I'm not pushing up resolution anytime soon.... but the CPU aspect should still be viable to use (not necessarily to buy used) for years yet. An i7-2600K is a little over 7 years old at this point and, unless titles start utilizing the increasing number of cores/threads available on modern chips, I fully expect the 4790K to have the same sort of useable lifespan..... Realistically, AMD will likely drop support for AM4 (2020) before something like a 4790K is "obsolete"



I wouldn't be surprised at all, if the new 11xx or 20xx cards are a refresh only. Been lots of speculation that we wouldn't see "Volta" in consumer cards, "Ampere" coming to the fore etc. AMD didn't present the full-blown challenge that most people hoped for/expected so, a basic refresh may well be all they do.