Who is to blame for absurd DRM and the 'death' of PC gaming?

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selling is about aiming at a good market. Of course if crysis was on the xbox360 it would sell very well. The market it huge and every xbox360 owner knows the game will play exactly like the screenshots and as expected. Crysis for the PC was aimed at high end gamers, and very highly marketed towards directx 10. Dozens of articles were aimed at showing just how great directx 10 looked, and it was very well publicised that not even the greatest pc on earth can run the game at highest settings. (and they released a demo pre release to prove it too.) Currently (according to steams latest survey) even 6 months after crysis' release, only 13% of the gaming market has a pc in this market segment. They also released the game at the same time as about a dozen big name games too. It was a very competitive time to release. To get over 1 million sales means that did a very good job, attracting people who had a medium or low level capable pc as well as customers from the high end market... This is why we say crytec blaming pirates doesnt make sense!
 



not now but they used to be.

when ever those in power tried to limit the freedoms of the people for selfish gains, like when they wanted to control the flow of information, pirates took action and started mass producing informational content that those in power were trying to restrict to the people

piracy does not just relate to software.

during the block on alcohol, speakeasies were like the kazaa's and limewire's of the alcohol world.

while before this probem there were still people who pirated alcohol, it didn't become wide spread to encompass millions of people until a massive DRM was imposed on the alcohol

piracy will always be a problem but it doesnt really grow or shrink when left alone, but once DRM is added then you see piracy skyrocket because people see it as they are purposely making the software inconvenient to use , so they look for a version thats burdened by the DRM


also for cod4 they were lying about the cd key problem. the reason why cracked servers work is that there not connected or monitored by the gaming company. they cant possibly get info on them

and if a cd key is given out on line then only 1 pc can use it at a time. and a serial from a keygen will be just marked as invalid and you wont be able to connect at all. so they were making those number up

the foundation of a cracked server relies on the company not being able to pull up any stats from it.

it is like if someone walks up to you and says 15 is the answer

you cant tell him it is wrong because no question was ever asked so it doesnt matter what answer is given

thats why these companies never give and evidence to back up their claims

none of them have ever given evidence because there is non e to give.

cracked servers only work when they cant be detected or have any of the info sent to the company,
 


Um, dl the crack then, I never said don't use them, but buy the game !

 


So then we should just pirate the game right ? You can make all the weak ass arguments you like but DRM has always been around to discourage copying period. If ppl didn't make copies for their frinds or family or just dl the game, DRM would have never started in the first place.
 


I agree that the price is too high, I buy mine used for that reason.
 


The point is that we should not have to do that. I have drawn my line in the sand at one time activation per install. Limited installs is flat out unacceptable. I don't trust EA as much as I trust Microsoft and that is saying a LOT!
 
"So then we should just pirate the game right ? You can make all the weak ass arguments you like but DRM has always been around to discourage copying period. If ppl didn't make copies for their frinds or family or just dl the game, DRM would have never started in the first place."

thats the point i was trying to make. theres no need for this level of DRM
a basic drm gets cracked just fast as even the most intrusive / annoying ones

they don't have to go 100% drm free but they can make just a simple basic one that will prevent people from just copying it like how they would copy a text file.

make the game require a cd in drive

no serials, just require the cd in the drive (for most games, a keygen is the easiest thing to make for them.

a basic drm prevents people from just copying the game like how they would copy a text file and give it to their friend.

no need for anything more annoying because it wont make a difference to the crackers . for the basic users who only know at most how to just copy a cd like how they would copy audio cd, basic drm prevents that. adding a mllion other checks and hoops to jump through wont make it any harder

it is like putting spikes under the magma in a volcano then pushing them in there, the spikes wont hurt any hurt the person any more or less, the magma will already get the job done, the spikes will be useless.

the cracker will be like a ghost. you can push them into the magma, it wont bother them, having spikes there also wont bother them either.

while pirating software for no reason is bad. it also keeps many software companies in check. because people have a option to get the same thing done using a alternate method so companies have more of a reason to keep the customers happy.

if ford was th only car company on earth, do you thing you would still be able to get a car for under $20 thousand ?
no competition means no reason to keep customers happy and opens the doors to screw them over.


if earth was about to fall apart and 1 company had a space ship that could save everyone, but it has like 4 feet of cow feces in the housing area for the people, and they were charging you all of your life savings to get on the ship. i bet you would still go on and give them what ever they want.
(in this case you have no choice so you have to accept being screwed over )

if that same scenario had a second company that was allowing all people so go on board for free and there was no cow crap on the floor, which would you pick?

basic users have yet to be able to even come close to cracking any kind of DRM

so it does it's job of preventing problems with those users, but with crackers, no matter how much drm they add it wont stop them, so why not just stick basic drm and keep your current customers happy.


people don't mind cd checks because everyone is used to having the cd in the drive from being used to console gaming.

how many people complained about halo 3 requiring the halo 3 dvd in the cd drive of the xbox 360 ?


and people will just rather download a cracked game then buying the drm filled game then download a crack for it then cracking it your self

not to mention that most cracks come nicely packaged with fun little trojans :)

with buying a game and cracking it, you get the worst of both worlds. risk of infection from the crack, and the burdens of drm from the paid game
 
I wouldn't bother pirating DRM-heavy games, just say no.
I haven't purchased a commercial CD since 2004, though I'm still a member of two of the labels' "clubs". They send the disks, I send them back.

I get enough through Slacker anyway.

Back in the BBS days, one commonly downloaded file type were demo's. These were MOD audio files (polyphonic noise really) and graphics demo's, like panning and sweeping around a virtual landscape. Why were these popular? They were for the more advanced audio and video cards, not too many people had those cards and there wasn't much that utilized them.

Game producers then weren't driving for the bleeding edge, they wanted sales instead of video manufacturer sponsors.
 
DRM for the games will go the same way DRM went for the music, all the years and all the lawsuits and MSFT just jumped ship. napster is now D/L music DRM free, signs of the times, on a different note it is interesting to see that in the WORLD the USA is the only one bitching about piracy, really sounds like a few sore losers, we the people vote with our wallet and the company that produces a crap game gets crap in their checking accounts, and why can EB and Best Buy sell games that are not very old for so cheap, maybe after everyone spread the word that the game wasn't so hot, sales dropped dead, so they have to give them away to get them out of the stores, and the whiners about the continued piracy thing, what are you smoking, my OPINION is go cry somewhere else, I buy my games from E-Bay and get them dirt cheap, yea some of them are not new but i don't have a $2000.00 dollar high end system either,
 
so when they made the original diablo, and my cd got screwed up, and i changed the registry so i could still play it, that made companies start making drm? omg, you are soooo right, because when my diablo 2 cd had a half rubbed off cd key, and i called blizzard and they said "go buy another one" or basically "go f**k yourself" i was wrong to find an alternative method to play via the expansion? that made them turn to DRM!!! omg... you're sooo f-ing smart!
they're just stupid. drm does nothing but waste money, and they've been doing it for years, it's nothing new. If a game developer is smart, there are other alternatives out there that are better, smarter, and more popular with the gaming community... not to mention they don't destroy your computer... so just quit your yammering on, somebody lock this thread.
 
This is really funny. There are more things in this world we should worry about then money hungry SOB's who care nothing about their consumers. It's all about the money buddy. I support piracy and I will back it up 100%. Here's a good example of a company stiffing you. EA Games/EA Sports, buying NFL license forcing you to play their games. Remember, this is America, land of the free. I make my own choices, not EA. If I were to copy or download a game that EA produced, technically I'm not stealing. I'm getting back what EA owes me.

For the record, I buy all my maddens (stupid me), all my basketall games, all my PC RTS, just got Metal Gear Solid 4 and Grand Theft Auto 4. Hey, I even bought Smackdown vs Raw. Do you know how much money I spend on video games each year? You think it's wrong for me to want to try out a game before I buy it? I challenge you sir. I challenge you to see who spends more money and puts in time playing video games. I'd say I earned my rights.

my 2 cents

btw, there's a cure for cancer. Why don't you go celebrate a bit on that note and worry about Piracy later.
 
I never liked PC multi player much, cause to me its basicly the same thing as solo, but it's a way for the consumers to think that they did not just waste $50 on 5GB of data. All I do is download a game, play solo while downloading another game, play the downloaded game while downloading yet another game. With this method I can play 24/7 and saves me about $1000 a year. So I say save your money on PC games and Windows and Office and the $1000 CS4 Master Collection, use it on something physical, something you can touch and actually show off, don't waste it on software.
 



Well I have 4 custom built computers in my home, Two quads and Two dual cores and a dual core laptop. I have many games, like DOW II, Shadow run, Risk II, Cyris, EtC. ETc. that I would like to be able to play lan on. Shadow run allows it, DOW II doesn't, I am not sure about Dow series, haven't tried to Lan party it yet, but It is a nice thing to be able to do with out paying the extra fee just to play it Lan party. If I buy a game, which I have always bought my PC games, I want to be able to play Lan games in my own home on any computer I have, period. I shouldn't have to buy 5 copies of a game at $50 bucks a piece. That is crazy. I also like games like battle tech and that is one of the best Lan games of all time, you need to be able to play other people. I don't think you should have full internet multi player access on more then 2 computers with one disc but Lan game in your home, I believe you should be able to play on as many computers you like.

Just my 2 cents
 


I believe you should, too. But PC game companys don't allow you... if you buy one copy, you can play it on this one computer... They also limit the installs to 5 times. So if you do a system restore or hard drive failure, you can't even install the game after 5 times.. PC game companys are a bunch of greedy penny-pinchers. Look at Sims 3 for example, if you want a new item or a new town or something, You have to pay like $20 for it. You don't get free updates, you have to pay for everything you want to do. That is why I went pirating, because the games are just not worth it. After I buy the game for like $50, I have to pay $20 more for new items, $20 more for a new town, and $30 for a new expansion. I rather give that money to charity then in the hands of some fat greedy CEO basterd. They have way too much money anyway, and they don't really need my extra $50 to pay for their new BMW's.
 
Well pc games have foudn a way to make themselves more viable and stay in the race.. recently world of warcraft and Star Trek online jsut ot name a couple have gine free to play... you want the good stuff.. you ay a little here otthere or wait until eventually they just give it to ya.
The idea is not exactly what I woudl say to be PERFECT.. but it allows everybody to buy a copy and play. no questions asked. It's kind of liek payign for expansions to yoru account I guess is one wya to look at it.. by extra character slots for more characters to play.. buy add ons for your ships/characters that stays unique to your accoutn only... ect..
I thin kthe PC gaming industry has finally heard the masses and this is the best they can do for a now. I like it.. but they still need ot do away with hacks and cheats. Then hte games will be more balanced.
That's my input and I am sticking to it!
Richard450, Old school gamer from the 80's when atari 2600 was the system to have!
 
Piracy has always been a problem with recorded entertainment, analog or digital.
Who pirates? Seems to me it's primarily those that can't afford it.
Economy here is the US has taken a hit. I lost a third of my salary 4 years ago. Lots of people lost everything.
When people have less money to spend, they buy less entertainment goods, games qualify as those for sure. This means there are less sales, and more piracy.
I am not condoning piracy, but it's a crappy corporate tactic to blame "lost sales" on piracy, and then use that logic force the consumer to spend more on a game which has tighter DRM, when the real problem is there are less sales because people are spending less money on entertainment.
 


Not to inherently condone thread necromancy, as this thread is several years old, but a sega genesis cartridge originally retailed for about 50 dollars. Today, that is still about what you pay for a new game. While it can be argued that the cartridge has a greater production cost per unit, likewise it can be argued that the budget of game developers in 2012 is often 100 times what it was in the early 90's, as well as the shift from cartridges simply being the evolution of technology. Either way, you don't pay more per title today than you used to. Not literally, and not figuratively.

Piracy was rampant on the internet years (over a decade) prior to the economic downswing in the US. You could conversely argue that in tighter times, such is the need to protect your product increased, as you stand to potentially sell less and (by your own logic) the public incentive to pirate or rather plainly put, steal, is higher. Undoubtedly there is a correlation between poverty and theft, but games are not commodities, and as such it becomes that much harder to justify the theft of a game. It just makes the thief look incredibly petty.
 
I can't disagree with your arguments, but would like to make a couple of minor points:
1. Back in the Sega Genesis days, games were not as popular as they are today. the market now is much larger. PC games seemed to be less in price. I remember picking up homeworld for $40 new. SNES AAA games were $70 (FFIV - ridiculous gouging.)
2. The market for games now is larger due to FPS and sports games, I would imagine the sheer number of games sold today is much greater and would absorb the greater development costs.
Can't really argue with you about rampant piracy and product protection during a recession except that I believe that if these production houses kept new game price between $30 and $40, there would be less piracy and more sales.
 


As to your last bit, you might be right. Hard to say without having the numbers to crunch. It could simply be that they turn a wider profit by gouging the paying customer a bit and accepting whatever % increase it may cause to overall piracy as loss being more than covered. I'd certainly appreciate cheaper retail prices at launch, but by the same token I'm pretty satisfied with how digital download competition has really pumped up the frequency of sales, and how often those sales come early in a games life.

I agree with your other points, but I'm not going to fault a business for doing their job; making more money. Only when it feels predatory to the consumer, do I consider it a problem. Day 1 DLC in Mass Effect 3 feels predatory, for instance. Hence I chose not to buy it (and thankfully so-got a chance to play it and ew). Good post though, raises good points rpg_poser.
 
*facepalm*

Crysis and warhead sold over 3 million copies, just amazing. Crysis 2, a POS console port sold almost half a million and will continue to sell poorly.

Make a POS game no one will buy it(crysis 2 has sold worse on all 3 platforms than crysis did on just the PC).

Make a good game (a console port no less) like skyrim and it will sell well.

IMO most people who pirate a game would NOT have bought the game regardless.

Support good developers (not under the EA umbrella) and we will see more good PC games. Don't support bad developers (Like crytek, bioware ect). Simple 😀

I agree w/ 0% of your post OP.

And IMO the #1 reason Mass Effect 3 will be pirated is because of origin/not available on steam.

 
The OP is several years old nocturnal =)

Number one reason ME3 will be pirated is because people like free stuff. Same reason people still plastic jewelry and other worthless crap at the mall.

For the record though Crysis 2 was at about 2 million physical copies at the beginning of fall last year. Never saw a total statistic with digital downloads added to the number. Your point in general stands, just adding some info.
 
i do frequent some other sites and some not so legal 1s and nocturnal has a point.
in many of the treads i read the excuse isnt cost but who's publishing it and how, with what drm...
the games i see most copied are not the AAA titles but the lesser 1s like angry birds.
yes skyrim and assasins creeds did have a fair amount of downloads between em... but angry birds is over 12 times as many as both together across all available platforms...

publishers like steam are getting there with there buy 1 play on multiformat idea... where you buy say portal 2 on pc and you can then download it for any other platform for free. you just need access to the account that you bought the original with... this wont stop piracy but it does give the customer less reason to pirate a game they have already bought and as a result steam have cut piracy across all there supported platforms...

not many of the other companies are taking note though. steam has a great idea that ensures every 1 who buys the game is happy but companies like e.a and ubi refuse to adopt it... because to them we arnt customers we are all potential pirates... funny thing is most pirates are clueless as to what they are downloading and most people wouldn't know the first thing about how to copy an actual drm encrypted game... so in reality its a very small group who are distributing the games and they should be the targets not the guys actually downloading em...

if piracy was such a huge problem then e.a can go though the courts and persuade the individuals who crack the games and then distribute them to change there ways... its pointless going after the people who copied the game unless you just intend using them as a cash cow...(this doesnt work as the fines are often in the 10's of dollars rather than the 250,000 the games companies try to tell you, that your liable for)...

as i said most of the time its a personal thing with pirates as to who they choose to pirate... i found personally that e.a and activation are the 2 biggest loosers but they also happen to be 2 of the biggest companies so it cant be hurting them that much...

currently the only way they want to stop piracey is to stop people using the net. limit access to sites rather than go after the individuals responsible... in other words make every 1 pay for the actions of the few... last time heard of that hitler was running germany.... so am i comparing e.a to the nazi party? no. e.a havent killed people over there games...

1 thing i do find funny is that companies like e.a are amending there eulas with phrases like. if you buy this software you cannot take on a class action in court against e.a if your unhappy with the end product or the rules we put in place to stop you legally using this software... thats right they think because they have written it into there eula its a law... they are completely ignoring the constitution of the u.s.a and the human rights act in the e.u... e.a and other companies think they are so far above the common man they make the rules... pirates on the other hand break the rules and in some cases are sanctioned to do so...
so no if you want to blame sum1 for pirating a game just remember the companies are just as guilty of theft. but they would steal more than a few bux from your pockets they intend to steal your rights...
 
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