AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[GOM3RPLY3R]

I just want to say: Why is this such a huge thread?

Simple answer: Ranting about off topic things.

I'll sum up for everyone what they are complaining about:

In a performance aspect with prices out of the question, Nvidia and Intel are dominating the market.

With Prices in hand, they are about hand in hand, as wholes.

In conclusion, if you are on a tighter budget or want to use OpenCL, Bit Mine, or Video Edit, then hit up the AMD market.

If you have the money and you want kick-ass gaming for the performance, go for Intel and/or Nvidia.

Enough Said.

UPDATE: By the way, I encountered a problem with an AMD fan on a GAMING topic and he brought up Operating Systems and how AMD works better with these, his main point was Linux. Keep in mind, most of the World Population isn't a hardware geek and/or an intense gamer, so really the focus will be mostly Windows. Also that Linux is terrible with games.

 

[de5_Roy]

well, damn. here i was hoping for an oc core i3 vs fx8350 match up.
although, i am glad i told tg to hold off buying a haswell core i3.... i think i did...

 

[GOM3RPLY3R]

well, damn. here i was hoping for an oc core i3 vs fx8350 match up.
although, i am glad i told tg to hold off buying a haswell core i3.... i think i did...

Honestly, from the opinion of someone who favors Intel (since I'm more of a gamer and have the money), I really don't like the i3 series. Its good but, for the money, you could still get an FX-8350. The performance of the 8350, in terms of beating Intel and a overall performance grade, goes up to about the i5-3570k stock, really nothing more unless you OC it.

UPDATE: On your side, there are i3s that can reach 8350 performance and, for the most part, beat it, but at that point, you are water cooling with Ice inside a refrigerator.

 

[de5_Roy]

Honestly, from the opinion of someone who favors Intel (since I'm more of a gamer and have the money), I really don't like the i3 series. Its good but, for the money, you could still get an FX-8350. The performance of the 8350, in terms of beating Intel and a overall performance grade, goes up to about the i5-3570k stock, really nothing more unless you OC it.

since mid-2012, i don't like core i3 or any intel dual core. it was fun in 2011 cuz zambezi was so funny. but for gaming, dual cores went out of favor (from games) last year... no reason to get one anymore. price became too high with ivb...
i was hoping if haswell would bring back some value in that segment but my hopes were dashed. intel u ebil.

 

[GOM3RPLY3R]

Yeah it kinda sucks. But hey, you can still get a i5-3570k for ~$220 and OC it to the performance of a i7-3770k stock (with possible Water Cooling). ^_^

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I will make the obvious distinction that HSW isnt much of an upgrade on Intel side, SR appears to be a better upgrade AMD side.
And most importantly of all is, on the GPU side, AMD is quite capable of matching or beating nVidia as they have every other release, as each takes the crown for a period of time.

So, if you think a grand for perf you wont see for 7 months is worth it, or for 600 less in other words, which is 30 some odd percent less in perf, bleeding edge is fine if you want to spend the dough, Im going to wait myself, dont uaually do bleeding edge, tho sometimes I cant help but to

 

[GOM3RPLY3R]

You are right, that it may be better, but we will have to wait and see.

 

[sarinaide]

I thought Haswell was the Trinity killer, if anything a A10 5800k is looking better than it ever did. Iris better be amazing because Richland is on its way.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

I will make the obvious distinction that HSW isnt much of an upgrade on Intel side, SR appears to be a better upgrade AMD side.

Most importantly, how will a 4770K compare with a SR in raw CPU and "total platform energy consumption" metric.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

is intels poor iGPU perf a management issue, or a technical issue ?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Both
They didnt put people in place that needed to be there, then when they did, we see commitment, but HW and drivers are way behind where they should be.
Im saying here theyve done well, but I bet asking some that have been around Intel for awhile knows this as well as feels it.
Theyve done well, its where theyre coming from thats the problem

 

[GOM3RPLY3R]

I don't know about anyone else, but I read the article on the i7-4770k Haswell Review.

It goes into depth with charts and analysis with the i7-4770k vs the 3770k, 2770k, and the A10-5800k.

The A10 does beat it on a lot of tests, but keep in mind the A10 is an APU, not just a CPU.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

Read the AT review of GT3e.
GT3e kills Trinity desktop in gpu perf, at less than half TDP.

crystalwell is shared by both cpu and gpu.

 

[Ranth]

I don't know about anyone else, but I read the article on the i7-4770k Haswell Review.

It goes into depth with charts and analysis with the i7-4770k vs the 3770k, 2770k, and the A10-5800k.

The A10 does beat it on a lot of tests, but keep in mind the A10 is an APU, not just a CPU.

To be honest I would say that Intels cpu are sort off like an apu.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Read the AT review of GT3e.
GT3e kills Trinity desktop in gpu perf, at less than half TDP.

crystalwell is shared by both cpu and gpu.

I would hope so, for a chip that costs 678 bucks or so, it had surely better, I just wonder if Intel will drop there pricing on these mobiles once something tastier from AMD comes out.
The cpu perf isnt nearly as important as it once was, and the gap is closing between AMD/Intel.
The new BGAs from AMD will handle much, remember its BGA, and the power savings there as well, just another tool AMD has to use against these 678$ chips

 

[de5_Roy]

Read the AT review of GT3e.
GT3e kills Trinity desktop in gpu perf, at less than half TDP.

crystalwell is shared by both cpu and gpu.

a bit too enthusiastic. may be i am too underwhelmed after reading toms 4770k review... i dunno.
intel has once againt thrown away price/performance for perf/watt. i took one look at gt3 skus' prices and thought 'no way'. i like the efficiency though. intel has kept the perf/$$ door wide open for amd to run away with multiple wins. may be amd did the right thing delaying kaveri (especially mobile). may be.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/06/01/intel-outs-quad-core-haswell-cpus/

confusing lineup.
And the forced SKU making is... crippling. Suddenly the desktop K series part dont look so attractive

I would hope so, for a chip that costs 678 bucks or so, it had surely better, I just wonder if Intel will drop there pricing on these mobiles once something tastier from AMD comes out.

My mind boggles at that $678 price. This is basically supreme disregard for the competition.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I will say this once more.
We are in the good enough cpu days, already happening, much less attention for DT.
In mobile, its power usage that rules, and we are reaching the good enough for a work day plateau as well, or should I say Haswell?
What happens when power savings is good enough for most FF's?

Its 657$ my mistake, must be my dsylexia kickin in

 

[mayankleoboy1]

feeling depressed today.
Desktop Haswell K parts are an embarasment. CPU perf is same, GPU perf is mostly a smll bump. OC headroom is lesser. Doesnt have TX memory.
Notebook Haswell with GT3e is too expensive to buy.

And AMD cant seem to release Richland and Kaveri on time.

 

[truegenius]

Off topic:
For all those who wish they could overclock the haswell i3's with bclk... (if intel do the same with th i3 as the i5-i7 that is...) :

"That’d all be well and good if Intel was enabling this new level of flexibility for the folks who don’t spend extra on K-series parts, giving them the ability to pick higher BCLK settings without access to the ratio multiplier. However, the company instead chooses to restrict the ratios to the Core i7-4770K and i5-4670K—the same ones you can already overclock in 100 MHz increments. Anyone buying one of the 11 other SKUs in Intel’s new Core i7 and i5 line-up is out of luck."

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-review,3521-10.html

well, damn. here i was hoping for an oc core i3 vs fx8350 match up.
although, i am glad i told tg to hold off buying a haswell core i3.... i think i did...

intel broke my heart

 

[juanrga]

Read the AT review of GT3e.
GT3e kills Trinity desktop in gpu perf, at less than half TDP.

Ultraexpensive chip that offers a minor gain over Trinity, which is 20-30% slower than Richland, which is behind Kaveri, Kabini...

 

[mayankleoboy1]

And broadwell is 90% faster than GT3e. And Skylake is 135% better than Broadwell.

 

[juanrga]

feeling depressed today.
Desktop Haswell K parts are an embarasment. CPU perf is same, GPU perf is mostly a smll bump. OC headroom is lesser. Doesnt have TX memory.
Notebook Haswell with GT3e is too expensive to buy.

And AMD cant seem to release Richland and Kaveri on time.

Haswell desktop is just as waited: Failwell

The mobile chips are much more interesting but Richland already offers about that level of graphics performance by much much less money. Richland releases now in June.

 

[Ranth]

What I think is quite amazing is the powerconsumption... now I don't know what ddr5 wil do to kaveri, but at 50w gt3e is frighteningly good, well obviously not for the price.

 

[hcl123]

I don't know about anyone else, but I read the article on the i7-4770k Haswell Review.

It goes into depth with charts and analysis with the i7-4770k vs the 3770k, 2770k, and the A10-5800k.

The A10 does beat it on a lot of tests, but keep in mind the A10 is an APU, not just a CPU.

Yes its odd... Trinity still wins in games, though the differences have been much shorten.

What is the big surprise is the OpenCL results!!

Not only Haswell, but IB also wins for almost the double of difference!!

Was the drivers set alright, is just too big a difference (can't find the setup definition for this) ? ... which version of OpenCL was used ?... I thought IvyBridge only supported OpenCL 1, and targeting the CPU only, while Haswell seems to target both and is stated to support up to OpenCL 1.2!?

I mean targeting both, specially the GPU or above all if not exclusively the GPU, Haswell should deliver a beating to IB that is not even pretty to look at, specially that GTE3 with eDRAM comparing with the GT2 without eDRAM of IB, yet the results are very close!!

The original site seems to be gone https://amdfusion.activeevents.com/scheduler/catalog/catalog.jsp?sy=798 , and i can't find in the new site any reference to past keynotes and presentations
http://developer.amd.com/apu/ (no archives) which is very typical of AMD(their state of flux, perhaps the old webmaster was fired lol)

But i firefox scapbook a page of a remarkable 2011 presentation at the summit, it should be something like this for Haswell compared to IB:

Optimizing VLC Using OpenCL and Other Fusion Capabilities

VLC is a free and open source cross-platform multimedia player and framework that plays back most types of multimedia files. In our optimization work, we first integrated an AMD-exclusive algorithm, Steady Video™, into VLC, to stabilize shaky video played with VLC. Then we used OpenCL to optimize VLC’s scaling filter, which is used to enlarge or shrink the video on the fly during playback. This OpenCL optimization has achieved speedups of up to 10x on Llano and 18x on Trinity compared to a competing CPU. A de-noise filter in VLC is used to reduce the noise in video. Due to the algorithm’s data dependency nature between pixels, it is hard to parallelize. Through our optimization efforts, we have implemented an OpenCL version which is already faster on Trinity APU than on a competing CPU. Together these features/optimizations will enable a much better video playback experience on HSA platforms.

That should be the potential, yet it isn't as it seems with intel. OpenCL only on the CPU just doesn't make much sense, matter of fact it could/*SHOULD* be scrapped altogether.

Opencl mostly if not exclusively on the CPU is the only explanation i find for those results. Perhaps some of those apps indicated by amd as supporting "fusion" by OpenCL, should be included in a next test (if there are benchs of any of them... i think there are... ) http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/offerings-optimized-for-opencl-2011jun08.aspx