AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[sarinaide]

I'd like to ask, should I get the AMD 8350 and overclock it? or the steamroller that's 5.0ghz, the only concerns I have for the steamroller is the power consumption, and the price, what will the predicted price be?

Wait for steamroller, nobody actually knows the power consumption so its just rhetoric at this point and no it will not be a 220w TPD.

 

[The Q6660 Inside]

I'd like to ask, should I get the AMD 8350 and overclock it? or the steamroller that's 5.0ghz, the only concerns I have for the steamroller is the power consumption, and the price, what will the predicted price be?

I would guess Steamroller FX8XXX will be clocked at 4.5 with a 5GHz Turbo, power consumption will likely be around 150W and around $200. The FX8350 is a great processor as well, and will be able to handle Next-Gen upcoming console ports like it was cake, although Steamroller looks like it will have a 30% general improvement and therefore ~5-10% game improvement over Piledriver. If you are ready to build a system now, go for the FX8350, use it and wait for Steamroller to release, sell the 8350 and get a Steamroller FX8XXX. A good Steamroller-Ready (very likely) motherboard is the ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0, most of the people on the thread (including me) call it the best value for money board and overclocking miracle machine. Cowboy44mag managed to get his Phenom II 965BE to 5GHz with it.

 

[jdwii]

With that being said, per core, the power of the Intel processor is much superior to the 8350 per core, which running at a lower clock, producing less heat since there are less cores, and finally using less power.

Actually Intel typically operates at a much higher thermal envelope. For example...an AMD CPU with temps over 60C will shut the system down. Intel CPUs can operate at much higher temps...(and typically do). Also, while they use less power, it is only marginally less.

As for "superior cores" well...say what you want...but intel CPUs running 8 threads don't run 8 threads as well as AMD 8 cores. So...your argument about "superior cores" only makes sense under certain circumstances, making the entire argument circumstantial at best.

The i5-3570k has 4 cores and the FX-8350 has 8 cores. The FX runs at 4.0 while the i5 runs at 3.4, and they ~ have the same performance. Please read.

Also, I'm talking about the now. Running nitrogen cooling in a system that is overclocked that high is un-realistic. It would be better just to get an Xeon processor.

Comparing clock speeds to a different design isn't right maybe comparing 1 Amd core to 1 Intel core yes but IPC or Clock speed by itself doesn't matter, Also i would compare power consumption of each core. I'd say at 4.0Ghz Amd is around 25-30% "slower" per core than Intel per core at its 3.4Ghz clock speed. Actually at a TDP of 125watts for a 8350 and a TDP of 84 watts Amd does use less power per core. 21 watts for haswell/15 for 8350fx.
The APU's vs Haswell on a laptop(where power consumption actually matters) isn't much of a difference to an average person heck now a days it comes to price and that's it Performance is good enough and power consumption. Maybe not in tablets but hey x86 tablets aren't selling at least in michigan at my bestbuy that i work at.

 

[sarinaide]

AM3+ will release new SB1050 chipset boards for SR so like FM2+ may require a board upgrade so don't buy until you know or you will be locked in. That said a 8350 is plenty processor.

 

[jdwii]

I'd like to ask, should I get the AMD 8350 and overclock it? or the steamroller that's 5.0ghz, the only concerns I have for the steamroller is the power consumption, and the price, what will the predicted price be?

I would guess Steamroller FX8XXX will be clocked at 4.5 with a 5GHz Turbo, power consumption will likely be around 150W and around $200. The FX8350 is a great processor as well, and will be able to handle Next-Gen upcoming console ports like it was cake, although Steamroller looks like it will have a 30% general improvement and therefore ~5-10% game improvement over Piledriver. If you are ready to build a system now, go for the FX8350, use it and wait for Steamroller to release, sell the 8350 and get a Steamroller FX8XXX. A good Steamroller-Ready (very likely) motherboard is the ASUS Sabertooth 990FX R2.0, most of the people on the thread (including me) call it the best value for money board and overclocking miracle machine. Cowboy44mag managed to get his Phenom II 965BE to 5GHz with it.

Yes the sabertooth is boss but i wouldn't even understand why Amd would make steamroller so hungry and clock it so high when honestly if they did the improvements in performance per clock they could lower the clock rates actually and since performance only improved at Intel by 10% since sandy i wouldn't even understand why Amd would do it. I know power consumption doesn't matter much in gaming PC's but 220 Watts is a bit too much for me i want to have a heat-sink cool it down preferably my 212+.

 

[8350rocks]

Top steamroller SKUs are projected to be 125W TDP.

 

[maza90210]

I'd like to ask, should I get the AMD 8350 and overclock it? or the steamroller that's 5.0ghz, the only concerns I have for the steamroller is the power consumption, and the price, what will the predicted price be?

Wait for steamroller, nobody actually knows the power consumption so its just rhetoric at this point and no it will not be a 220w TPD.

I hope it will be only a little more than the 8350, also I need to wait for the gtx 760 (if reviews are good and price) Thanks, I'll just wait for the steamroller.

 

[BeastLeeX]

@maza90210

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-760-oc-gaming-performance-unveiled-15-faster-geforce-gtx-660-ti/

Should be close to 670 perf, with the slightest overclock and they are supposed to make 4gb chips. and from my observations so far, it seems like the revamped Kepler overclocks better. Compare the 770 and 680 here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_770/30.html

and:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_680_Twin_Frozr_III/31.html

The average of the 4 770s go 50Mhz higher then the average of the 5 680s.

 

[juanrga]

Marginally less 100w is what the normal difference from an i3 ivy bridge to fx4300 or i5 to fx6300 or fx8350 to i7 3770k.

For the two latter chips it is more as 40-80W.

 

[juanrga]

Temash is a massive step forward but single threaded performance is much worse.

Temash won the best Award at Computex because rocks.

 

[esrever]

Marginally less 100w is what the normal difference from an i3 ivy bridge to fx4300 or i5 to fx6300 or fx8350 to i7 3770k.

For the two latter chips it is more as 40-80W.

The 3770k consumes around 45w on full load if it was just the cpu. Also theres a reason why intel cpus take half the power consumption to do the same task as in 3770k vs fx8350. Haswell even improves on that.

This never happens.

 

[GOM3RPLY3R]

With that being said, per core, the power of the Intel processor is much superior to the 8350 per core, which running at a lower clock, producing less heat since there are less cores, and finally using less power.

Actually Intel typically operates at a much higher thermal envelope. For example...an AMD CPU with temps over 60C will shut the system down. Intel CPUs can operate at much higher temps...(and typically do). Also, while they use less power, it is only marginally less.

As for "superior cores" well...say what you want...but intel CPUs running 8 threads don't run 8 threads as well as AMD 8 cores. So...your argument about "superior cores" only makes sense under certain circumstances, making the entire argument circumstantial at best.

The i5-3570k has 4 cores and the FX-8350 has 8 cores. The FX runs at 4.0 while the i5 runs at 3.4, and they ~ have the same performance. Please read.

Also, I'm talking about the now. Running nitrogen cooling in a system that is overclocked that high is un-realistic. It would be better just to get an Xeon processor.

Read the thermal limits for the silicon...AMD's absolute limit is 62C, Intel's absolute limit is more like 90C. This means intel chips run hotter...news flash...they always have run hotter than AMD, this isn't a new development.

Also, Hasfail runs even hotter than IB.

I am not talking about a Nitrogen cooled system, I am talking about a CPU that runs 250 times faster than the FX 8350 at stock.

You need to find a bump in the road that will knock you off of intel's bandwagon...it's really getting old.

EDIT: So how long have you been on Intel's payroll? How much are they paying you for PR? You're not very good at it...

1. You are right, they just Idle hotter, which is a little strange.

2. I am talking about the 3770k, not the 4770k.

3. That's cool that you are talking about that, but in reality, just because it runs that hot doesn't help YOU. Running a CPU that hot or even 7.0 would usually need LN, and YOU and even I don't have the money for something like that? It's cool you get a clock record, but really, when comparing AMD and Intel, and the 3570 with the 8350, AMD ~always runs at a higher clock to get the same performance of something that is from the same generation.

Since most people usually buy the higher end processors for gaming, even just a little, I will base the performance of the threads off of that. The only game that uses more than 4 threads/cores is BF3, which barely runs better on the 8350 than the 3570k, but cannot beat the 3770k. Also with each core being stronger usually than AMD, you will get better performance on games that dont use more than 4 core/threads, which is more than 90% of games out there. Thus being said, on the gamer basis, the thread value is pointless when using the higher end processor, but in your case where you want the point to be proven, you have failed.

 

[8350rocks]

I think you misunderstand me...the future will see a day where 1 THz CPUs are common, just like no one thought we would ever hit 1 GHz, and look now...that's slow.

I can picture...AMD FX 11990 BE 1 THz (completely pulling nomenclature out of the sky)...maybe by then windows will be as smart as Linux.

 

[earl45]

I think you misunderstand me...the future will see a day where 1 THz CPUs are common, just like no one thought we would ever hit 1 GHz, and look now...that's slow.

I can picture...AMD FX 11990 BE 1 THz (completely pulling nomenclature out of the sky)...maybe by then windows will be as smart as Linux.[/quotemsg

This is the same wishful thinking about windows 8
making the FX CPU's sail past everything and guess what you're still waiting for it.

 

[8350rocks]

I think you misunderstand me...the future will see a day where 1 THz CPUs are common, just like no one thought we would ever hit 1 GHz, and look now...that's slow.

I can picture...AMD FX 11990 BE 1 THz (completely pulling nomenclature out of the sky)...maybe by then windows will be as smart as Linux.

This is the same wishful thinking about windows 8
making the FX CPU's sail past everything and guess what you're still waiting for it.

Don't troll...

One day both Intel and AMD will have 1 THz processors...

As for windows...well, that may be wishful thinking...but it would still be nice.

That or Linux takes over the world...either one would be fine by me...

 

[hcl123]

Make no mistake, I want 28nm FD-SOI, but 28nm bulk may become a reality, so I must trust it to win the bet :|.

And if you lose ?

a steamroller on 28nm bulk above > 9 ghz ( 8ghz is no improvement) on extreme cooling is your bet ?
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroller-speculation-expert-conjecture/page-94#11000985

FD-SOI or PD-SOI never was my bet, i mean, *IF* soi is in the equation the bet is off
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroller-speculation-expert-conjecture/page-94#10997522

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroller-speculation-expert-conjecture/page-94#10997952

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroller-speculation-expert-conjecture/page-94#11000687

 

[hcl123]

I would assume the iGPU is a 580+ SP with 16ROP's running off the 128Bit interface.

http://static.betazeta.com/www.chw.net/up/2013/06/Kaveri-IGP-512-portada-660x350.jpg


EDIT: Ah, wait, this is Berlin and not Kaveri. Disregard.

And make no mistake Berlin is a server part. The comparing with the X server kabini only means that the power much be also comparable, so its a very low power (otherwise doesn't make sense), meaning those 512sp must be real low clock, and tunned for "compute" not graphics. And double DRAM means Berlin will have 2 DRAM channels 128bit (kabini has 1 64bit). That is why i advanced that the Berlin socket could be different, that the system I/O is out of the die, different from actual APUs (maybe compatible with AM3+ or the "new" FM3... or perhaps C32... )

Ah thanks 512 which is the same as a HD7750, looks like the IGPU is a hybrid Cape Verde Pro.

Don't count on it, it can be 512sp, but no comparable at all. That could be the 512sp but on "kaveri" desktop, it can even be superior to HD7770 lol... if with the GDDR5 on socket.. example(but now i think will be MCM, on "substrate", not on socket)
http://www.techpowerup.com/img/11-05-03/17a.jpg

Entry level discrete graphic adapters are finished... nvidia will suffer more...

Nevertheless on GFLOPS even if quite low clock, Berlin as a server chip could wipe out many larger(more cores) more power hungry server chips... 512sp not only obliterates on "compute" power the kabini X server parts.

 

[hcl123]

I'd like to ask, should I get the AMD 8350 and overclock it? or the steamroller that's 5.0ghz, the only concerns I have for the steamroller is the power consumption, and the price, what will the predicted price be?

Wait for steamroller, nobody actually knows the power consumption so its just rhetoric at this point and no it will not be a 220w TPD.

And if Steamroller only comes on "bulk" ?

The enthusiast OC sector is a very small market, it can be disproportionately influential, but is small

Steamroller on bulk, can even end up a good chip, but if OC its an objective, than your advice may put "maza90210" out of luck.

 

[hcl123]

I think you misunderstand me...the future will see a day where 1 THz CPUs are common, just like no one thought we would ever hit 1 GHz, and look now...that's slow.

I can picture...AMD FX 11990 BE 1 THz (completely pulling nomenclature out of the sky)...maybe by then windows will be as smart as Linux.

You might have to wait a loooooooooooooong time... hey! even old men, granpas, can like computers lol

Into the foreseeable future, according to tests and demos, not even "graphene" chips will ever reach 1THz. And he problem gets worst because its not having a single core at those speeds, as long the processes gets smaller, the tendency is getting more cores, cores more fatter, enormous interconnect mazes, all of which goes against pure clock.

So the future is multithreading, 16 to 24 cores could be common in a decade on desktop/client, even more more ahead( even phones could have not too much long 16 cores)... the single-thread much proclaimed intel superiority is an ILLUSION, a mantra, a temporary marketing gimmick hype.

OTOH, 1THz we may not see in our lifetime ( never say never because sudden breakthroughs can happen, but the odds are very very very slim)

 

[juanrga]

Marginally less 100w is what the normal difference from an i3 ivy bridge to fx4300 or i5 to fx6300 or fx8350 to i7 3770k.

For the two latter chips it is more as 40-80W.

The 3770k consumes around 45w on full load if it was just the cpu. Also theres a reason why intel cpus take half the power consumption to do the same task as in 3770k vs fx8350. Haswell even improves on that.

45W on full load? half the power consumption? What?

 

[lesteron2]

They tried to do too much smart stuff and screwed some of it up.

 

[noob2222]

Marginally less 100w is what the normal difference from an i3 ivy bridge to fx4300 or i5 to fx6300 or fx8350 to i7 3770k.

For the two latter chips it is more as 40-80W.

The 3770k consumes around 45w on full load if it was just the cpu. Also theres a reason why intel cpus take half the power consumption to do the same task as in 3770k vs fx8350. Haswell even improves on that.

you are one delusional individual. www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/04/23/intel-core-i7-3770k-review/8

133w cpu load for 3770k, 137 for hw and this is from a very pro-intel website, and one of the closest power between sb and hasbeen, most give sb a 10-20 watt advantage.

45W .... wtf.

 

[hcl123]

Depends a lot on load, don't take that TDP marks as an absolute metric, its only an "average" representation that can have a more or less "LARGE ERROR MARGIN"...

Even a 45w desktop chip upon playing an heavy game can go over quite above 100W... total system power above 200W... lol

Besides Intel usually for the TDP doesn't count the large part of the "uncore", everything that usually goes by the 3.3V rails doesn't count for the CPU TDP

AN expert on power measuring http://www.lostcircuits.com/mambo//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=105&Itemid=1&limit=1&limitstart=3

A major caveat that applies to most Intel processors of the last few generations is that they receive power from more than just the auxiliary power. That is, especially Nehalem and Lynnfield platforms are receiving extra 3.3V. and 5V power through the board that cannot be monitored through our approach but which constitutes a major portion of the power budget in that the entire un-core is powered through it. The same caveat may or may not apply to Sandy Bridge, at this point we can only guess that there is auxiliary power from the board to the processor but we don't have concrete information on this. The bottom line here is that the power measurements need to be taken with a grain of salt until we have a chance for a complete analysis of the power circuitry. We cross-checked by measuring the system power using an Extech 380803 power analyzer to monitor wall power consumption and cross-correlate it with the isolated CPU power.

45W ?? .. ill put a *salt* kaveat lol

EDIT:

But if you complain about power, WHY NOT "UNDERCLOCK" ?

SOI is also very good to "underclock", not the best for low power that PD-SOI, but responds very well.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?284577-8350-Power-Consumption&p=5163272&viewfull=1#post5163272

An FX that could be rated below 45W... 0.919v 2.7Ghz... perhaps 1.1V could be above 3ghz yet less than 65w(insane) lol

 

[hcl123]

A FX8320... surely the 8350 could be a little better... as the FX9590 (centurion) ... at 6Ghz with a good water block
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?284577-8350-Power-Consumption&p=5195002&viewfull=1#post5195002

And the more remarkable is the temperature, 30ºC at idle... meaning CnQ is still functioning (insane) lol

"Centurion" at 220W might mean not much, since most of time a client/desktop is idling, average tipical usage power is quite below that (ref max for OEMs)... and those Extreme game riggs from OEMS for sure could came with very good water blocks, 6ghz might not be hard to find... and OCers on those centurion for sure will try 7Ghz on water (edit)

 

[-Fran-]

Don't feed the troll... Or even worst, don't waste words on a blind folk who refuses to see ~__________________~

Anyway, in regards to the IPC numbers you threw gamerk, AMD actually promised a 15% increase in IPC alone from gen to gen, right? Given that, then it might as well translate as the overall 7-9% we saw from BD to PD. That's not bad I guess.

Cheers!