AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

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noob2222

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for that you have to go way back to lynnfield release.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2832/16

in almost every single non-game test, the 920 was notably faster than the I5 750. The gaming benches turned that around in every case. Even the 975 blows the I7 870 out of the water in regular testing, but games are nearly identical, occasionally faster.

How can you have superior ipc and turn that around for gaming? What was the main thing lynnfield had going for it.
 

GOM3RPLY3R

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I would just like to put something out there.

Everyone knows that AMD can achieve higher clock speeds and can work at slightly higher temps than Intel. I am all for both, but people need to realize three things (on a gaming basis, which is what most high end computer buyers are):

1. How many cores are there

2. What the clock is

3. What the Power Consumption is

All the AMD Processors now are standardizing at an eight core chip while Intel is, for the most part, still on the four core basis (on the economical level). Many people think that since the AMD processors have more physical cores, that it is better.

Let me explain something. Hyper threading uses a very small amount of CPU power, and a good amount of thread power to make, however they aren't as powerful as real cores.

Thus being said, taking money out of the equation, an Intel i5-3570k with 4 cores and NO HT is ~on the same level as the FX-8350. The 3570k is at 3.4 and the 8350 is at 4.0, and the AMD produces more heat, and requires more power.

With that being said, per core, the power of the Intel processor is much superior to the 8350 per core, which running at a lower clock, producing less heat since there are less cores, and finally using less power.

In games, there are no games, with the exception of Battlefield, that utilize 4 or more cores, and even then, when you have Hyper Threading (3770k), it utilizes those as well. Even so with Battlefield, the game usually runs no less that 10 frames slower on the Intel than AMD, keeping in mind that the clock is lower and there are Hyper Threaded cores, the power of the Intel compared to the AMD is very close for the major physical differences.

In the end, with money out of the equation, Intel is obviously dominant. The reason that they cost more money is yes, they use bulk wafers, but the power per core is ~ twice as powerful as AMD processors, also while using less power and producing less heat.

(optional reading): A simple way that you can demonstrate it is with porcelain and non-porcelain vases with the parenthesis being the comparison to the CPU. The non-porcelain vase will cost much less money and be much harder to break (physical build "heat"), however the visual quality (performance) of it will not be on par with other fancy things you will have, giving it "less use". However the real porcelain vase will be somewhat easier to break and will be fragile (physical build "heat"), however the visual quality (performance) will be better than the non-porcelain vase, making it more valuable.

This physical aspect is set and done. Now when we bring money into the equation, this is where we get problems. Just to say, and everyone should know this, AMD is more of a budget friendly service, you may say, while Intel requires more since the quality of it is better (demonstrated previously). Usually, for people that are tight on a budget, video edit/render, or heavily use OpenCL applications, they will usually go for AMD, while the people that will game, use 3D operations, and have the money for it, will tend to go for Intel.

This is the true nature of humans, don't get me wrong. However on a realistic basis, I have to say that Intel is better with their performance (with the exception of some video editing and OCL).

Honestly, I would get AMD and like it if I was like I said previously, and I was thinking about making an AMD system for video rendering and editing for my Gaming Videos.

UPDATE: Thus being said, the "clock speed championship" is pointless to the fact that processors need a certain amount of clock to do certain amounts of work. Cool you may have your overclock record AMD, but it proves pointless to this fact, and that so one in the right mind needs to overclock their processor this high and run it with LN.
 

Make no mistake, I want 28nm FD-SOI, but 28nm bulk may become a reality, so I must trust it to win the bet :|.
 

GOM3RPLY3R

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I just mentioned this in my post I just put up. Clock when comparing AMD and Intel isn't valid as they need a certain clock to do certain loads of work. Also, who NEEDS their processor that high? I could maybe see 6.0 (as I plan to someday get to 5.2Ghz with my 3770k LC), but really? It is less than equivalent to AIDS, no one needs that, and no one wants that.
 

This is just a joke-bet on AMD breaking their own record :3
 

8350rocks

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Actually Intel typically operates at a much higher thermal envelope. For example...an AMD CPU with temps over 60C will shut the system down. Intel CPUs can operate at much higher temps...(and typically do). Also, while they use less power, it is only marginally less.

As for "superior cores" well...say what you want...but intel CPUs running 8 threads don't run 8 threads as well as AMD 8 cores. So...your argument about "superior cores" only makes sense under certain circumstances, making the entire argument circumstantial at best.
 

8350rocks

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Really? I want a 1 THz CPU...why not? Faster is faster...maybe by the time that day comes...windows will run as fast as Linux :p
 

Cazalan

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Well Kyoto/Kabini are SoCs not APUs, so yes the System or Platform Controller Hub on those is inside the chip. They are single chip solutions.
 

GOM3RPLY3R

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The i5-3570k has 4 cores and the FX-8350 has 8 cores. The FX runs at 4.0 while the i5 runs at 3.4, and they ~ have the same performance. Please read.

Also, I'm talking about the now. Running nitrogen cooling in a system that is overclocked that high is un-realistic. It would be better just to get an Xeon processor.
 

8350rocks

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Read the thermal limits for the silicon...AMD's absolute limit is 62C, Intel's absolute limit is more like 90C. This means intel chips run hotter...news flash...they always have run hotter than AMD, this isn't a new development.

Also, Hasfail runs even hotter than IB.

I am not talking about a Nitrogen cooled system, I am talking about a CPU that runs 250 times faster than the FX 8350 at stock.

You need to find a bump in the road that will knock you off of intel's bandwagon...it's really getting old.

EDIT: So how long have you been on Intel's payroll? How much are they paying you for PR? You're not very good at it...
 

Cazalan

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Based on the latest roadmaps there will be no FX9450. Or if it comes it won't be until 2015.

Those benchmark numbers you were citing were old projections (not benchmarks) from:

http://amdfx.blogspot.com/2013/05/amd-steamroller-fx-9650-45-ghz-48-ghz.html

They still had the outdated news that Kaveri would have 3M/6T, which has been recanted by the one source that provided the rumor and further backed by AMD themselves. Kaveri is only 2M/4T like all the others.

Anyhow based on AMD's naming scheme the Steamroller FX would be 45xx/65xx0/85xx right?
Bulldozer is 41xx/61xx/81xx
Piledriver is 43xx/63xx/83xx
Steamroller 45xx/65xx/85xx
 

juanrga

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For games/apps using four threads the i5 is faster. A four threaded app is using only a half of the FX chip whereas using the 100% of the i5 chip and still the i5 is not twice faster.

For eight threads the 8350 is faster than the i7-3770k (8 threads) and destroys the i5 (4 threads). In fact, thanks to recent software improvements, the 8350 can be faster than the i7-3960X (12 threads). Benchmarks have been given above.



Link? I only know a recent roadmap that shows no 4M Kaveri coming on 2013.
 

8350rocks

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LOL...so that's why Kabini in mobile parts consumes less power than intel parts right...?

You're either the funniest person I've ever met, or an incredible troll...I haven't quite decided which yet (leaning toward the latter over the former though).

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kabini-a4-5000-review,3518-13.html

power-gaming.png


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power-web.png


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power-video.png


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Now what were you saying again about power consumption?
 
When it comes to AMD people feel inclined to complain and complain about everything, nothing works or everything is wrong and the AMD world is giant fishbowl and everyone is looking in.

AMD is slower than Intel

Well gee wiz thank you for eluding me to that, I should hope a company with around 25x the resources of AMD make better parts or it would be rather embarrassing, that said AMD innovation is good, AMD technology is good and while process and architectures will evolve and be better per generation there is no guarentee that AMD will ever best Intel in whatever Benchmark the crying populace wish their insatiable appitites be sated on. AMD is actually executing well and doing a lot better than they really should be doing but nobody seems to ever be happy.

To much power Captain

AMD is not just a one line chip designer anymore, for a long time AMD was exclusively a x86 performance core designer/manufacturer but the change of markets have for AMD like many players altered the business model. FX represents AMD's performance processor line up, people in this segment are clockers and/or gamers and FX over time has changed perceptions that were initially bleak and it is shown that AMD still competes at a price point level but in instance where optimization is good they can actually beat Intel through out the line up. Needless to say the point in this segment is power users less inclined to be concerned about a 150w CPU under load.

Enters Kabini and Temash for a market that is not interested in absolute power but wants features and connectivity at a good price, AMD's ULV solutions in this segment which spans from handheld hybrids, to notebooks to all in one HTPC systems is about market leading at this point.

 
^^ is that what's been going on this whole time? "my intel is faster than (your) amd"? here i was looking forward to a speculation on how seattle, berlin....
edit: oops, sarinaide's post got in before i hit submit button. mine's to hafijur's post.
 

8350rocks

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The Kabini A4 hangs in there on games like Tomb Raider:

Tombraider-Low.png


That's the GCN based iGPU compensating for lesser CPU performance...considering the power consumption...the perf/watt is there as the intel i3 isn't 100% faster, but consumes 100% more power.
 
Looks like AMD's Spectre IGPU is on pace to compete with the HD7750 and threaten HD7770 space.

bf3_1920_1200.gif


BF Ultra settings with 4xMSAA and the HD7750 achieves around 25FPS at 1200P so we can assume that at Medium settings at 1080P with eye candy AMD may have the first 1080P legitimate iGPU solution. I would assume the iGPU is a 580+ SP with 16ROP's running off the 128Bit interface.

skyrim_1920_1200.gif


Skyrim even more so.

Soon I won't need to even think of a discrete GPU.

 

maza90210

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I'd like to ask, should I get the AMD 8350 and overclock it? or the steamroller that's 5.0ghz, the only concerns I have for the steamroller is the power consumption, and the price, what will the predicted price be?
 
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