AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[anxiousinfusion]

^^ Well we've come full circle now, haven't we.

 

[szatkus]

Feel free to ignore the arguments once again.

Thank you.



@gamerk316 I recommend to read the original article. It's really interesting and quite easy to grasp: http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/introducing-the-vacuum-transistor-a-device-made-of-nothing

 

[iron8orn]

This is why we want Higher-end chips from Amd to give Intel more competition

Companies lie with independence of competition. In any case, have you been living under a rock (PUN intended) the last months? AMD has already announced its plans for higher-end: K12 and companion x86 sister.

i was hoping for an fx4xxx branded igpu-less kaveri for socket fm2+. oh well. there's always next time.

The fact there is none in the market, proves that igpu yields are very very good, which is not a surprise because if there was yields problems they would be detected first in the CPU. :-D

Regardless of the implementation, the specifications should be LONG stabilized, otherwise it would be impossible to develop for. Specification != implementation.

It is not the implementation which is in beta. It is the own API which is being still developed in collaboration with game developers.

PhysX IS open. Proprietary to NVIDIA, but open.

Please check next link Propietary vs Open Standards

Except if Intel adopts Mantle, then ~82% of the GPU market would offer it and NVidia would be forced to do so or fight uphill against it eternally.

The problem is this is a big IF.

i think there will be a 8 thread steamroller Kaveri soon a 22nm process could be great but i think amd is working on something a little better. i speculate a 16nm cpu with 16nm gpu's

There is no 8 thread steamroller Kaveri in the menu. The IBM 22nm SOI process couldn't provide the characteristics needed for GCN. Moreover, people here is assuming, as proven, that IBM will license its process to anyone including AMD, when it is likely that GF will use IBM technology only for IBM products.

In any case, the route that AMD will follow is rather clear: 28m bulk planar --> 20nm bulk planar --> 14nm bulk FF, except if there are unexpected problems/delays, of course.

that means they are not saying that igpus will be better in gaming than dgpus
in accelerating tasks using gpus, igpus can easily beat dgpus ( for example quicksync vs amd/nvidia hw acceleration for video conversion ) because interconnect is holding dgpus here and not the gpus them self ( you can try an experiment t home, clock whichever cpu have to minimum speed and turn off all cres except 1, and then run video conversion task using hw acceleration ( you can use atixcoder for amd's dgpus ) and see how much percent dgpu is utilized and does it even runs at its full speed, this way you will find the amount of dgpu utilized which will show you that its interconnect holding back )
but gaming is different, pcie is not bottleneck here, gpus are bottleneck, run any game at highest settings and dgpu reaches to 100% at full speed, thus gpu is bottleneck

so treat these statement while keeping in mind that gaming and general purpose are different things, rest you can understand by yourself

i always said and will say it again that igpus can't beat dgpus in gaming

They are saying that Torrenza initiative is killed. Sometime ago someone here pretended that it was alive...

In any case regarding gaming, I already explained before how gaming is evolving to blur the distinction between compute GPU and rendering GPU, how killing GPGPUs will do gaming GPUs economically inviable, how nonlinear silicon scaling will affect future gaming dGPUs...

Feel free to ignore the arguments once again.

Not that AMD is really sticking to old plans.. but if they really want to remain competitive they would skip 20nm and go strait to 14nm cpu with 14nm gpu's so they are not embarrassed with Intel's 10nm shrink that will certainly be worthy of 14nm high performance gpu's.

 

[juanrga]

[Not that AMD is really sticking to old plans.. but if they really want to remain competitive they would skip 20nm and go strait to 14nm cpu with 14nm gpu's so they are not embarrassed with Intel's 10nm shrink that will certainly be worthy of 14nm high performance gpu's.

AMD could skip the 20nm node but I doubt AMD will release 14nmFF products before 2016. Volume production of 14FF is expected for late 2015. Moreover AMD will be introducing a completely new architecture, not a modification of current Bulldozer family.

Intel 10nm products are expected for 2016 as well.

 

[8350rocks]

[Not that AMD is really sticking to old plans.. but if they really want to remain competitive they would skip 20nm and go strait to 14nm cpu with 14nm gpu's so they are not embarrassed with Intel's 10nm shrink that will certainly be worthy of 14nm high performance gpu's.

AMD could skip the 20nm node but I doubt AMD will release 14nmFF products before 2016. Volume production of 14FF is expected for late 2015. Moreover AMD will be introducing a completely new architecture, not a modification of current Bulldozer family.

Intel 10nm products are expected for 2016 as well.

For once, you may be onto something there...

 

[iron8orn]

[Not that AMD is really sticking to old plans.. but if they really want to remain competitive they would skip 20nm and go strait to 14nm cpu with 14nm gpu's so they are not embarrassed with Intel's 10nm shrink that will certainly be worthy of 14nm high performance gpu's.

AMD could skip the 20nm node but I doubt AMD will release 14nmFF products before 2016. Volume production of 14FF is expected for late 2015. Moreover AMD will be introducing a completely new architecture, not a modification of current Bulldozer family.

Intel 10nm products are expected for 2016 as well.

For once, you may be onto something there...

within the next 6 months we will see if AMD is able to pull off a 8 thread Steamroller for either the am3+ or fm2+ and come 2015 the plan they device will be clear with a new socket supporting ddr4 taking the back seat with 20nm or stepping up to the plate with 14nm.
I see it as.. Nvidia will want nothing but the best process for there gpu's and will most likely be 14nm so AMD will have no choice to give it all they have and go strait to 14nm parallelism otherwise risk loosing everything.

 

[esrever]

AMD isn't releasing a 8 core steamroller CPU. There wouldn't be enough gains with the current processes. Maybe 20nm excavator will launch an 8 core but even that is doubtful.

 

[juanrga]

Thank you.

My pleasure.

For once, you may be onto something there...

I try to ignore your posts, but since you are posting another lie, let me satisfy your weekly need of being put in place: As someone else said the only difference between you and me is that I am usually right (or rather close) in my predictions "while 8350Rocks seems to fail most of his predictions due to his AMD insider constantly giving him massively wrong info."

 

[juanrga]

within the next 6 months we will see if AMD is able to pull off a 8 thread Steamroller for either the am3+ or fm2+ and come 2015 the plan they device will be clear with a new socket supporting ddr4 taking the back seat with 20nm or stepping up to the plate with 14nm.

There is no 8-core Steamroller neither for am3+ nor for fm2+. This is the roadmap up to 2015

https://twitter.com/juanrga/status/406390600804466689

AMD isn't releasing a 8 core steamroller CPU. There wouldn't be enough gains with the current processes. Maybe 20nm excavator will launch an 8 core but even that is doubtful.

20nm is Skybridge/Cambridge, and maybe Carrizo. Carrizo is quad-core max. The only 8-core 20nm could be Cambridge. Although I believe that it will be 16-core

At 14nm there is enough room for a 8-core APU. Also 14nm is for when AMD plans the new FX CPUs with 8/12/16 core.

 

[iron8orn]

So wheres the experts then?

Well i am no expert but i just call it how i see it. I mean AMD does not just compete with Intel, they have Nvidia to worry about.
AMD having a 20nm cpu and gpu while Intel and Nvidia put out 14nm... then Intel does one better and goes 10nm.
What is there really to say... other than who is going to buy a 20nm gpu when they can have 14nm.
If AMD chooses to start working on 20nm for production they will be at major risk.
They could just pull out of the high performance gpu market and keep working on apu's and servers but even then.. the testing that Toms did on the latest laptop apu's where not so great from my point of view.

Should just not mess around and make a am4 with ddr4,14nm FX and 14nm Radeon. Is that not what everyone want's from them anyway?

 

[szatkus]

So wheres the experts then?

Well i am no expert but i just call it how i see it. I mean AMD does not just compete with Intel, they have Nvidia to worry about.
AMD having a 20nm cpu and gpu while Intel and Nvidia put out 14nm... then Intel does one better and goes 10nm.
What is there really to say... other than who is going to buy a 20nm gpu when they can have 14nm.
If AMD chooses to start working on 20nm for production they will be at major risk.
They could just pull out of the high performance gpu market and keep working on apu's and servers but even then.. the testing that Toms did on the latest laptop apu's where not so great from my point of view.

Should just not mess around and make a am4 with ddr4,14nm FX and 14nm Radeon. Is that not what everyone want's from them anyway?

AMD and Nvidia both produce their GPUs in TSMC. Same prices, same economy. They will start using 14 nm more less in the same time (like GTX 6xx and R7xxx).

 

[iron8orn]

So wheres the experts then?

Well i am no expert but i just call it how i see it. I mean AMD does not just compete with Intel, they have Nvidia to worry about.
AMD having a 20nm cpu and gpu while Intel and Nvidia put out 14nm... then Intel does one better and goes 10nm.
What is there really to say... other than who is going to buy a 20nm gpu when they can have 14nm.
If AMD chooses to start working on 20nm for production they will be at major risk.
They could just pull out of the high performance gpu market and keep working on apu's and servers but even then.. the testing that Toms did on the latest laptop apu's where not so great from my point of view.

Should just not mess around and make a am4 with ddr4,14nm FX and 14nm Radeon. Is that not what everyone want's from them anyway?

AMD and Nvidia both produce their GPUs in TSMC. Same prices, same economy. They will start using 14 nm more less in the same time (like GTX 6xx and R7xxx).

So with the upgrade plan of Intel considered they have to skip 20nm.

 

[szatkus]

So wheres the experts then?

Well i am no expert but i just call it how i see it. I mean AMD does not just compete with Intel, they have Nvidia to worry about.
AMD having a 20nm cpu and gpu while Intel and Nvidia put out 14nm... then Intel does one better and goes 10nm.
What is there really to say... other than who is going to buy a 20nm gpu when they can have 14nm.
If AMD chooses to start working on 20nm for production they will be at major risk.
They could just pull out of the high performance gpu market and keep working on apu's and servers but even then.. the testing that Toms did on the latest laptop apu's where not so great from my point of view.

Should just not mess around and make a am4 with ddr4,14nm FX and 14nm Radeon. Is that not what everyone want's from them anyway?

AMD and Nvidia both produce their GPUs in TSMC. Same prices, same economy. They will start using 14 nm more less in the same time (like GTX 6xx and R7xxx).

So with the upgrade plan of Intel considered they have to skip 20nm.

Not necessary. Depends how good TSMC 20 nm is. Remember that they rolled out 28 nm GPUs, when Intel had 22 nm.

 

[de5_Roy]

3 more frostbite 3 based games have announced support for amd's mantle api
http://www.techpowerup.com/202447/three-new-electronic-arts-games-to-support-amds-mantle.html
in terms of number of games alone, mantle might soon become worthy of consideration i.e. buy gfx cards for mantle support, around the time mantle comes out of beta phase.

edit:

AMD to launch new FX processor or processors
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2014/2014062401_AMD_to_launch_new_FX_processor.html
+NaCl

 

[8350rocks]

Thank you.

My pleasure.

For once, you may be onto something there...

I try to ignore your posts, but since you are posting another lie, let me satisfy your weekly need of being put in place: As someone else said the only difference between you and me is that I am usually right (or rather close) in my predictions "while 8350Rocks seems to fail most of his predictions due to his AMD insider constantly giving him massively wrong info."

Actually, it is you who seems to be proven wrong consistently...however, I was being subtle about something...

You can continue to insult me, however, we shall see what comes...hmm?

 

[8350rocks]

So wheres the experts then?

Well i am no expert but i just call it how i see it. I mean AMD does not just compete with Intel, they have Nvidia to worry about.
AMD having a 20nm cpu and gpu while Intel and Nvidia put out 14nm... then Intel does one better and goes 10nm.
What is there really to say... other than who is going to buy a 20nm gpu when they can have 14nm.
If AMD chooses to start working on 20nm for production they will be at major risk.
They could just pull out of the high performance gpu market and keep working on apu's and servers but even then.. the testing that Toms did on the latest laptop apu's where not so great from my point of view.

Should just not mess around and make a am4 with ddr4,14nm FX and 14nm Radeon. Is that not what everyone want's from them anyway?

AMD is far more competitive than you give credit, and Intel's 10nm node is really ~12nm...they have been giving misinformation for a long time by providing the length of the shortest node, as opposed to the method used by other companies.

Perhaps just let the people who were educated about the subject hash it out...though juanrga seems not to follow that advice either.

 

[de5_Roy]

There are many here...most of the people posting are experts in the field.

The only one that is not, though he pretends he is, would be juanrga. He just sits at home and reads speculation articles and misinterprets marketing info from companies and spouts fud about ARM cores...

how dare you question the expertise of a published author? said i, rocking le armchair (geddit?).

on a marginally more serious note, i haven't seen glofo or tsmc document their process specs like intel does (may be cuz i haven't looked thoroughly). intel may be giving misinformation but we know that because they're more open. same with the "openness" of myriads of arm vendors who won't even say how long their cpu's pipeline is or how their cache system works or if they implemented software-specific firmware tweaks in the socs (might have learned from intel)....

 

[blackkstar]

3 more frostbite 3 based games have announced support for amd's mantle api
http://www.techpowerup.com/202447/three-new-electronic-arts-games-to-support-amds-mantle.html
in terms of number of games alone, mantle might soon become worthy of consideration i.e. buy gfx cards for mantle support, around the time mantle comes out of beta phase.

edit:

AMD to launch new FX processor or processors
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2014/2014062401_AMD_to_launch_new_FX_processor.html
+NaCl

As many games launched with Mantle in a week as PhysX saw with GPU acceleration in 2 years? Wow, it's over, PhysX is just like Mantle XD!

 

[gamerk316]

So wheres the experts then?

There are many here...most of the people posting are experts in the field.

The only one that is not, though he pretends he is, would be juanrga. He just sits at home and reads speculation articles and misinterprets marketing info from companies and spouts fud about ARM cores...

Wow, I'm considered an expert now? Yay, moving on up!

 

[logainofhades]

So wheres the experts then?

There are many here...most of the people posting are experts in the field.

The only one that is not, though he pretends he is, would be juanrga. He just sits at home and reads speculation articles and misinterprets marketing info from companies and spouts fud about ARM cores...

Wow, I'm considered an expert now? Yay, moving on up!

Nope, according to your badge, you are past an expert and are an authority.

 

[anxiousinfusion]

AMD is far more competitive than you give credit, and Intel's 10nm node is really ~12nm...they have been giving misinformation for a long time by providing the length of the shortest node, as opposed to the method used by other companies.

Perhaps just let the people who were educated about the subject hash it out...though juanrga seems not to follow that advice either.

XX-nm designations are becoming more and more like 3G/4G in that they relate to a multitude of technologies rather than a specific point of measure. At this point, I wish companies would begin to use % of previous scale to advertise their nodes since it's all marketing anyway.

20nm is Skybridge/Cambridge, and maybe Carrizo. Carrizo is quad-core max. The only 8-core 20nm could be Cambridge. Although I believe that it will be 16-core

At 14nm there is enough room for a 8-core APU. Also 14nm is for when AMD plans the new FX CPUs with 8/12/16 core.

The guys at overclock and semiaccurate forums have been stalking LinkedIn profiles to suggest CarrizoB has been ported to 20nm-LPM. I'm skeptical, personally as AMD is on record saying they're committed to 28nm throughout 2014.

 

[szatkus]

So wheres the experts then?

There are many here...most of the people posting are experts in the field.

The only one that is not, though he pretends he is, would be juanrga. He just sits at home and reads speculation articles and misinterprets marketing info from companies and spouts fud about ARM cores...

Wow, I'm considered an expert now? Yay, moving on up!

<trolling mode>
most of the people posting


</trolling mode>

 

[szatkus]

AMD is far more competitive than you give credit, and Intel's 10nm node is really ~12nm...they have been giving misinformation for a long time by providing the length of the shortest node, as opposed to the method used by other companies.

Yeah, I heard few times that Intel's 22 nm is really ~26 nm. It's all just marketing names like someone earlier said.

 

[juanrga]

Well i am no expert but i just call it how i see it. I mean AMD does not just compete with Intel, they have Nvidia to worry about.
AMD having a 20nm cpu and gpu while Intel and Nvidia put out 14nm... then Intel does one better and goes 10nm.
What is there really to say... other than who is going to buy a 20nm gpu when they can have 14nm.
If AMD chooses to start working on 20nm for production they will be at major risk.
They could just pull out of the high performance gpu market and keep working on apu's and servers but even then.. the testing that Toms did on the latest laptop apu's where not so great from my point of view.

Should just not mess around and make a am4 with ddr4,14nm FX and 14nm Radeon. Is that not what everyone want's from them anyway?

As I mentioned just above, 14FF is expected to be be ready for volume production at the end of 2015. Thus, Nvidia cannot have access to it much before AMD.

The guys at overclock and semiaccurate forums have been stalking LinkedIn profiles to suggest CarrizoB has been ported to 20nm-LPM. I'm skeptical, personally as AMD is on record saying they're committed to 28nm throughout 2014.

I know, one of those guys is trying to convince me both in public and private. I shared my skepticism therein

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=215764&postcount=478

 

[iron8orn]

I just think that parallelism is the road that they would like to take and would fit perfect for all the latest things they have been doing to go 14nm vs 14nm.

Would not be easy to roll out in time with Intel but i do not think that Intel ever claimed all the hard work they do to make the best enthusiast level cpu's is easy.