I'm going to compare this to a football game. There is an old addage that if you can't control the ball, at least control the clock. Many a game has been won by clever use of time as a weapon.
AMD currently controls the ball and the clock.
Ball:
For about 10 years now, they have had a price/performance advantage over Intel. For most of those years, they also had the flat-out performance advantage. There were a few periods where if you wanted the fastest computer available you had to buy Intel, but mostly the fastest at any given time was an AMD. Now, AMD has a substantial performance advantage over Intel. And when you talk price/performance it's not even close. They are about to ship the AM2 platforms, which have already been tested on par with the current platforms, but with much more flexibility and upward mobility.
Clock:
AMD is timing its AM2 push to coincide with the availability of high speed DDR2 memory. This is a luxury it couldn't afford when Intel ran the clock. AMD has been sandbagging lately because it can, and because they want to maximize the impact of the AM2 release. Intel has already announced that it can't get off the front side bus until 2009 at the earliest, so AMD controls the longer-term clock as well.
With AMD controlling the clock and the ball, Intel is getting desperate for a win. They will have to take bigger risks, and open the door to the possibility of mistakes. If they make a mistake at this point, the referee may have to stop the fight (OK I switched to a boxing metaphor - so sue me).
AMD is definitely in prime pouncing position. Two years ago, they may have been begging for Dell to take them as suppliers, but a year from now, Dell may be begging AMD. It could soon become near-impossible to sell a computer with Intel Inside. The only thing Intel has going for it now is its reputation. A few well-placed AMD ads would remedy that.
AMD currently controls the ball and the clock.
Ball:
For about 10 years now, they have had a price/performance advantage over Intel. For most of those years, they also had the flat-out performance advantage. There were a few periods where if you wanted the fastest computer available you had to buy Intel, but mostly the fastest at any given time was an AMD. Now, AMD has a substantial performance advantage over Intel. And when you talk price/performance it's not even close. They are about to ship the AM2 platforms, which have already been tested on par with the current platforms, but with much more flexibility and upward mobility.
Clock:
AMD is timing its AM2 push to coincide with the availability of high speed DDR2 memory. This is a luxury it couldn't afford when Intel ran the clock. AMD has been sandbagging lately because it can, and because they want to maximize the impact of the AM2 release. Intel has already announced that it can't get off the front side bus until 2009 at the earliest, so AMD controls the longer-term clock as well.
With AMD controlling the clock and the ball, Intel is getting desperate for a win. They will have to take bigger risks, and open the door to the possibility of mistakes. If they make a mistake at this point, the referee may have to stop the fight (OK I switched to a boxing metaphor - so sue me).
AMD is definitely in prime pouncing position. Two years ago, they may have been begging for Dell to take them as suppliers, but a year from now, Dell may be begging AMD. It could soon become near-impossible to sell a computer with Intel Inside. The only thing Intel has going for it now is its reputation. A few well-placed AMD ads would remedy that.
parlee
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id like to agree with ycon, u deserve to be put on an island with no internet because u are the most idiotic person ever, i am an amd fanboy, and for u to realize this u have to see that amd isnt the biggest comapny in the world. there pretty small, they have 21% of the desktop processor profits, this means intel has the other 79% (i know u cant subtract so...) now if u look at dell and see that they only support intel, and they get say (this isnt exact)60% of the market is a dell computer, thats a huge ass chunk. and its actaully not far from the truth, dell is probably the reason for intels huge market control, they are a massive company, everyone buys from them whether u think they dont or not, everyone does. if dell didnt excist i believe itd be closer to 50% 50% for profits from processors, but dell is huge, amd needs dell if they ever want to overtake intel. and ur a total idiot for calling michael dell an intel fanboy, he gets intel processors for nothing because he has a deal with intel saying he wont sell amd, if he sells amd intel will charge higher prices, meaning dell desktops will be more expesnive (with p4's) and intel processor prices will probably go up so that they can keep big profits, u realize that if this happens that means amd wont have to push as hard to keep a foot in the door on the processor field, so they wouldnt push as hard to make faster stuff, meaning, things would move more slowly, and moores law might become false. if amd does get dell. amds profits will skyrocket, maybe gaining close to 40% of the market share, meaning, cheaper processors, newer techs faster. iguess ur right in saying amd doesnt NEED dell but they want them BAD so that they can become the leader in processors. why do u think amd is trying so hard to get dell to sell there processors? theyve tried this before too and dell rejected them. dvd ur a blatent fanboy and ur points are invaild because u are a fanboy and there biased towards amd, for example if amd where to raise prices ud say "oh thats for more profit to make faster processors" but if intel did it ud say "stupid intel they want more money because there gtreedy!!!!" what im saying is, ur a dumbass. please, please please, go live on that island with no computer and never return, this forum would be much beetter off, and wed be able to have actual debates without idiots like u intruding. for the record, i like amd, i like building my own computers, but u have to realize that theres more than that and amd needs more than the 2% of people that know amd pwns intel right now to succeed.
luminaris
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Well, I wouldn't rule out anything against Michael Dell as he certainly is not beat. They're not the #1 computer manufacturer for nothing you know. AMD may have had and/or has an advantage over Intel however, Dell is still a selling hot point.
Maxiius
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What about Alienware, Voodoo, and Falcon? I wonder how many AMD chips they sell compared to Intel. I think Voodoo infact only sells AMD chips I believe, I could be wrong here (haven't checked). If AMD hooked up with Dell, that would put AMD chips in every mass marketed PC eh? (except for like HP or whatever, who buys HP desktops anyway 😛 )
linux_0
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I agree with Maxiius 😀
Alienware, Voodoo, Falcon and others like Penguin Computing sell a LOT of AMDs.
Some of the best high end workstations, top of the line gaming rigs and high end servers are AMD64 (Athlon64s and Opterons).
They certainly do not do the volume Dell does by any stretch of the imagination but they usually build comparatively really good boxen 😀
Alienware, Voodoo, Falcon and others like Penguin Computing sell a LOT of AMDs.
Some of the best high end workstations, top of the line gaming rigs and high end servers are AMD64 (Athlon64s and Opterons).
They certainly do not do the volume Dell does by any stretch of the imagination but they usually build comparatively really good boxen 😀
Worf101
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As for the eternal question of AMD vs. Intel. I admit I'm an AMD fan but I'm way to old and evil to be any company's butt boy. Every rig I've built has been AMD, not because I hate Intel but because I like the underdog and being in a smaller community of knowledgeble builders than mass market sheep. That being said I doubt Intel can regain the long term performance lead even if they wanted to not because of ignorance but bacause of "Corporate Calcification".
You get middle managers more concerned over their next promotion and top managers more concerned with their bonus than producing cutting edge product and your company stagnates. You see it time and again. They're so calcified they can't think outside the box. Kodax, Xerox, Poloroid, IBM Fortune 500 companies now shadows of their former glory. They can't see the boulder coming at them so they stick their collectiive heads in the sand and get their asses flattened. Intel won't improve cause it's managers have no reason to improve it's product. They're all getting rich by taking no risks at all. They could roll back ther performance of the Intel line and STILL make money so what incentice is there to gamble for the lead? None...
Da Worfster
You get middle managers more concerned over their next promotion and top managers more concerned with their bonus than producing cutting edge product and your company stagnates. You see it time and again. They're so calcified they can't think outside the box. Kodax, Xerox, Poloroid, IBM Fortune 500 companies now shadows of their former glory. They can't see the boulder coming at them so they stick their collectiive heads in the sand and get their asses flattened. Intel won't improve cause it's managers have no reason to improve it's product. They're all getting rich by taking no risks at all. They could roll back ther performance of the Intel line and STILL make money so what incentice is there to gamble for the lead? None...
Da Worfster
parlee
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"well parlee i think you are an idiotic intel fanboy and dell is very bad just call their tech support"
first to address this, i think ur retarded because i happen to own an amd computer that i built (amd socket 754 3700, 1gb corsair xms, x700pro, 160gb hd, creative x-fi) yes its nothing specail but if i was an intel fanboy id put a p4 in there.. so for the first part ur just retarded. and for the dell is bad, call their tech, i guess u didnt read my posts before... i understand u must have a short attention span with listening to all that rap and such, i forgive u for that, ill restate it. ive called there tech support to replace a broken mp3 player, the convo was no more than 10 min long and i got a replacement within 5 days, have u ever called their tech support? have u ever even owned a dell? do u even know what a fucking dell is? why dont u try calling their tech support before u go and bitch about how it sucks. u cant bs ur way through life, its gonna catch up, now that i called u on it theres nothing u can do but delete ur account and go to a different forum, or better yet, give me ur computer (without the hd, i dont want 30 gigs of gay porn) so get off my back about this stupid ass fanboy shit, i try to stay neutral but i bought amd because there better and it was dirt cheap for the socket 754 (tehre better now, they used to be worse) and i would choose dell over ANY other brand name computer comapny because dell makes cheap good reliable computers, but im sure u wouldnt know that because all u know is that people who build computers dont like them because itys more expensive, so of course u being a follower, agree to this not knowing shit about the comapny. and the intel only thing turned u off from the ebginning because amd offers a TINY BIT better perforamnce while generating less haet and using less energy. i guess u dont look at benchmarks because the things amd wins, its not huge wins, its small almost tied wins, intels wins are a bit bigger but they dont BLOW THE COMPETITION AWAY the chips perform very similarly, i guarentee if i built u a computer and didnt tell which brand of processor was in it, put u into any game and u wouldnt be able to tell the difference, so shut ur goddamn fanboy mouth and show me some actual facts or better yet, dotn even waste ur time trying becasue anything u say i wont beleive.
as for the falcon, alienware and other high end comptuer companys, i agree that they probably sell way more amds (with the exception of p4 EE, i bet they sell a bunch of those...) but u pay a premium for there stuff, falcon computers start at somthing like 2500 bux with an amd 3000+ and a 6600 vanilla... or somthing crazy like that... but there tech support is amazing, and they put care into building every computer, that to me still doesnt justify the price tag, for 2500 u could buy an xps with a 7800gt and a 3.2p4 or build ur own with an amd x2 4400 and x1900xt, but the falcon will never die, the dell will last a good 5 years before u get problems, and the homebuilt will be a hassle and ull have to do all the fixing on ur own. id choose falcon if i had DEEEEP pockets, but i dont, this is why people who have the knowledge build computers. im not argueing brand name is more expensive, but the fact is that if amd wants to expand they need to get dell, there not gonna expand very much if there just selling falcon and hp computers, i bet less than 1% has falcon/alienware and such... and 10% has an hp/compaq computer with an amd in it. the rest is pretty much dell.
and dvd just a question, what kind of computer do u have?
first to address this, i think ur retarded because i happen to own an amd computer that i built (amd socket 754 3700, 1gb corsair xms, x700pro, 160gb hd, creative x-fi) yes its nothing specail but if i was an intel fanboy id put a p4 in there.. so for the first part ur just retarded. and for the dell is bad, call their tech, i guess u didnt read my posts before... i understand u must have a short attention span with listening to all that rap and such, i forgive u for that, ill restate it. ive called there tech support to replace a broken mp3 player, the convo was no more than 10 min long and i got a replacement within 5 days, have u ever called their tech support? have u ever even owned a dell? do u even know what a fucking dell is? why dont u try calling their tech support before u go and bitch about how it sucks. u cant bs ur way through life, its gonna catch up, now that i called u on it theres nothing u can do but delete ur account and go to a different forum, or better yet, give me ur computer (without the hd, i dont want 30 gigs of gay porn) so get off my back about this stupid ass fanboy shit, i try to stay neutral but i bought amd because there better and it was dirt cheap for the socket 754 (tehre better now, they used to be worse) and i would choose dell over ANY other brand name computer comapny because dell makes cheap good reliable computers, but im sure u wouldnt know that because all u know is that people who build computers dont like them because itys more expensive, so of course u being a follower, agree to this not knowing shit about the comapny. and the intel only thing turned u off from the ebginning because amd offers a TINY BIT better perforamnce while generating less haet and using less energy. i guess u dont look at benchmarks because the things amd wins, its not huge wins, its small almost tied wins, intels wins are a bit bigger but they dont BLOW THE COMPETITION AWAY the chips perform very similarly, i guarentee if i built u a computer and didnt tell which brand of processor was in it, put u into any game and u wouldnt be able to tell the difference, so shut ur goddamn fanboy mouth and show me some actual facts or better yet, dotn even waste ur time trying becasue anything u say i wont beleive.
as for the falcon, alienware and other high end comptuer companys, i agree that they probably sell way more amds (with the exception of p4 EE, i bet they sell a bunch of those...) but u pay a premium for there stuff, falcon computers start at somthing like 2500 bux with an amd 3000+ and a 6600 vanilla... or somthing crazy like that... but there tech support is amazing, and they put care into building every computer, that to me still doesnt justify the price tag, for 2500 u could buy an xps with a 7800gt and a 3.2p4 or build ur own with an amd x2 4400 and x1900xt, but the falcon will never die, the dell will last a good 5 years before u get problems, and the homebuilt will be a hassle and ull have to do all the fixing on ur own. id choose falcon if i had DEEEEP pockets, but i dont, this is why people who have the knowledge build computers. im not argueing brand name is more expensive, but the fact is that if amd wants to expand they need to get dell, there not gonna expand very much if there just selling falcon and hp computers, i bet less than 1% has falcon/alienware and such... and 10% has an hp/compaq computer with an amd in it. the rest is pretty much dell.
and dvd just a question, what kind of computer do u have?
parlee
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ur like 11, u dont fix computers u break them. i no longer believe a word u say.
and i went to the falcon website, looks sick... i configured pretty much the top of the line computer
2 gb memory
2 x x1900xtx
fx60
x-fi plat
6900+shipping
could be build for 4.5-5k depending on what u use for other parts, if i had 7k id buy the falcon in a second just because id have them customize a case for me... which is like 500 bux but oh well looks nice... but since i can only dream of a computer that fast... thats what ill do 😛... and i also looked at the cheapest, it was 1600 dollars and had an amd3500 512 memory and a 6600gt, i was a bit off but u could build a computer with those specs for under 600 bux... once again though, u get the incredable service and those are built to last decades...
and i went to the falcon website, looks sick... i configured pretty much the top of the line computer
2 gb memory
2 x x1900xtx
fx60
x-fi plat
6900+shipping
could be build for 4.5-5k depending on what u use for other parts, if i had 7k id buy the falcon in a second just because id have them customize a case for me... which is like 500 bux but oh well looks nice... but since i can only dream of a computer that fast... thats what ill do 😛... and i also looked at the cheapest, it was 1600 dollars and had an amd3500 512 memory and a 6600gt, i was a bit off but u could build a computer with those specs for under 600 bux... once again though, u get the incredable service and those are built to last decades...
The thing with Dell is this. Yes you are getting an incredibly cheap machine, but there is a catch, the bait and switch. I myself am a victim of this. When I first was entering college I wanted a cheap computer. I saw Dell selling their 2400's for $450 with a free LCD. I thought "Great! Dell kicks ass! Ooohh I can customize it." From then on call me a sucker. After upgrading my RAM to 512 my hard drive to 80, adding Microsoft office, getting XP Pro, and a bunch of other vapor crap I never used and deleted anyways my computer came out to $1100. To rub salt in the wound the 2400 is a celeron piece of crap. I did not even realize that I was hosed until I found out that A) All Dell cheap computers are custom made to crappiness, meaning I cannot upgrade unless I get dell parts. B) No graphics slot of anykind. C) I cannot even use the OS I bought because its OEM. D) ITS FRIGGIN CELERON E) It is too poor to even run a tv tuner, which is what I planned to do later. F) Even though it has 512 MB of RAM it runs like it has 128 MB because of all the vaporware they put on it, and made it a bitch to get off. Last but not least. How much I spent on my computer, if I saved two hundred extra dollars. I could now build a pretty good dual core gaming rig. Dell............................
NEVER AGAIN!
NEVER AGAIN!
parlee
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well theres ur problem, u bought a low end computer and customized it to a higher end one, why didnt u just go to the i duno the model number but the one thats around 900 dollars, thats ur mistake, not dells. u didnt even know that it had a celeron before u spent 1100 bux, how can u even blame dell for ur ignorance? u said u wanted a computer for college, meaning cheap, u ended up spending 1100 bux, thats by no means cheap, mine was less than that. if u didnt config it it would run msword till the cows come home, itd be plenty for a college student who doesnt game. no agp/pciexpress slot is how they keep costs down, i agree that dell has no upgrade path, but the average user doesnt even know what that is so its not really why u buy a dell, u dont buy a 1100 dollar computer then put a video card in it... u customize it so u dont have to buy aftermarket parts, u can upgrade from other than dell i dont know what u mean by that, because all parts will work with a dell, with the acception of an apple or amd chip... but thats because its a different socket. as for the tv tuner thats total bs, we have one running in out 900 dollar 1.8 p4, its been in there for over a year, we never really use it it smore of a "look waht my computer can do" because we have a tv right behind it. but it works fine, OEM operating systems is another way they keep costs down, my question is why would u upgrade to xp pro on a budget pc? xp pro doesnt offer anything extra for a college student, besides remote access, which u can download free software that does it. pretty much the reason u hate dell is because ur an ignorant college kid who doesnt know how to check things through before he buys them? thats like buying a 2006 ferrari and not sitting in it before u buy it, let alone drive it. but u buy it without even sitting in it to find out that ur too tall to fit in it, its ur fault not ferraris, u didnt test drive it. same as with the dell, its ur fault u cant take the time to recheck what u ordered before u bought it, thats the lamest excuse to hate a company ive ever heard.
@ dvd
once again, i dont believe a word u say, im sure those numbers are, uve fixed 1 computer and it was a homemade one that u built.
@ dvd
once again, i dont believe a word u say, im sure those numbers are, uve fixed 1 computer and it was a homemade one that u built.
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