AMD - THE ROAD AHEAD

[endyen]

It really doesn't take much to realize that Fab36 was built and designed for 65 nanos.
The part I dont understand is how Intel can get any yields out of 65 nanos.
They are still using air, as thier etching medium. Air. Oh yah, it's so easy to control light in air.
It looks to me like Intel is going for cheap. That doesn't produce quality, ever.

 

[Atolsammeek]

What bad is both Intel and Amd fanboys need to get there heads out of there rears and wait. Then see what happens. Each side has there pros and cons. And Both sides needs to face this Bloody fact. We have to use the facts now That is the chips you can use NOW. Not in the pass not in the future. For the pass is old and the one in the future is not even out yet. So shut your bloody would be Fact or counter facts up.

 

[Omerta]

It really doesn't take much to realize that Fab36 was built and designed for 65 nanos.
The part I dont understand is how Intel can get any yields out of 65 nanos.
They are still using air, as thier etching medium. Air. Oh yah, it's so easy to control light in air.
It looks to me like Intel is going for cheap. That doesn't produce quality, ever.

Dude, i happen to work in Fab 11X for Intel and what you said makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Air? You are a dork 😳

 

[Atolsammeek]

Here what funny Omerta anyone on this forum can say I work for amd or intel. You think we beleave your lies. Let see I could say I work for Fab 30 amd. But most people already know I dont. So next time grow up and smell the coffee. So stop acting like a nitwit.

 

[Omerta]

I don't care if you believe me or not. I am sitting in the fab right now. And what he said makes no sense. :lol:

 

[jkflipflop98]

They didn't show it because unlike other companies *hint hint*, they don't announce everytime they go to the bathroom.

When do you think Intel will have 45nm, huh? You think 2006? Yea okay. Maybe 2007? Right, you're smokin' the wrong stuff bud.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

Intel just bin'd out the first working lot of die shrunk netbursts on 45nm a couple weeks ago. We're working on a merom/comroe shrink now. so about 6 months or so to full ramp.

 

[jkflipflop98]

It really doesn't take much to realize that Fab36 was built and designed for 65 nanos.
The part I dont understand is how Intel can get any yields out of 65 nanos.
They are still using air, as thier etching medium. Air. Oh yah, it's so easy to control light in air.
It looks to me like Intel is going for cheap. That doesn't produce quality, ever.

Dude, i happen to work in Fab 11X for Intel and what you said makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Air? You are a dork 😳

I work in advanced component research in Oregon. He's right. You didn't make one shred of sense.

 

[Omerta]

I work in advanced component research in Oregon. He's right. You didn't make one shred of sense.

Do you work in pathfinding? That's a job i would enjoy. Tired of HVM.

 

[mitch074]

Maybe he was thinking about Intel's paper-released products... You know, those products that were supposed to come out of fabs but never quite made it into a computer...

Air isn't a VERY good light conductor; sterilized and clean air is much better. Ionized air, even more so. Now, what's plasma? Stop me if I'm wrong, but plasma is heavily ionized gas - and I think chips are still engraved using plasma, no? My sources are showing their age...

 

[jkflipflop98]

Yup, I'm in Pathfinding.

That made a little more sense. O2 is combined with a host of other gasses, then blasted with a high amplitude RF signal to strike plasma. This etches into the surface of the wafer. So you're correct there. But that's only a tiny part of the process, and during an etch, you're going to have dirt and grit. That's just the way it works. There are subsequent steps after an etch to ensure the wafers are nice and clean.

If you're lookin to merely attack Intel, you better do it on another front than manufacturing process. That's one that you can't win.

 

[upec]

I hope AMD can continue to offer products that can compete with Intel.
Competition is always good for the consumer.

 

[conroe]

AMD has alot of money to spend. I'm sure it's going to good use and it is enough to tide them over to the next generation. Unfortunately K8L is not it. AMD should have something by mid'07 to have it face 45nm. I believe AMD's next real lead will be 2008 if they play their cards right. They have some very good engineers, and I know they have been scrambling over this all year.

Intel needs to put on the price squeeze and break them. Looks like they will give it their best.

 

[luminaris]

Where's AMD at these days?

- Obviously somebody didn't read that article....

Intel is clearly in a better position than AMD is. If AMD is so full of innovation, why aren't they leading? I'm not talking about performance here, i'm talking innovation.

- Goes back to what I said fanboy, that AMD doesn't announce when they go to the bathroom...and obviously, that metaphor is too advanced for some people.

The guys from the AMD camp are not only worried about Intel biting back but are now struggling to make the switch to where Intel has been for some time now.

- Uh.....what? I guess you know this because you spoke with all the Engineers and CEO's of the company, BTW, how is Jack in accounting?

I believe AMD will make it, but will be forced to sell at a significant discount to intels superior performing desktop products.

- That one made me laugh.

Be realistic MMM if a Pentium M shoehorned into a 875 chipset mainboard using DDR1 can match or in some cases beat an FX 57 do you actually believe a conroe is not gonna be better?

I was lying, THAT made me laugh.

I don't know anything about computers

- Finally something you said that is right! 😀

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

I knew you were going to fire back with the very old, tried, true and very used and abused FANBOY thing. The thing is, I have never called you anything at any given time nor will I stoop to your level of incompetence.

The point I was making is, Intel is well ahead of AMD and that's it PERIOD. Yes, I did read the article and it says, AMD is expected to be 65nm by the end of this year. HELLO, Intel has been there!

I don't give a rat's ass about being called a fanboy and my next question I would want to ask is, what's the big deal if I like Intel? Does that make me any less human than you?

The other thing i'll point out is this, where's your work? I've already proven to everyone here what i'm capable of. If your such a machine enthusiast, where's your benchmarks and proof of your mad modding skills? I've asked this countless times before and have yet to see anything. You bash people and call them names all the damn time for having what you call inferior equipment so, let's see what you got. I took what you call an inferior Intel chip almost up another Gigahertz and it ran stable with cheap RAM and yet, I showed the world my accomplishment. You talk all this smack dude, time to either show it or stfu

 

[conroe]

:lol: My 3200+ (faster than yours?) :lol:
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=84611

My winchester and dualSATA2 are in the closet needing a PSU.

Don't make me whip out my Quad Opteron 64 850 Server and pwn your Intel Fanboy @$$.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

I have a 3200+, 165, 3800+ X2, 4000+, and a host of others...so yea, I am right no matter what.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

Even when your wrong?

Put up, or PLEASE shut up.

 

[mitch074]

I'm not attacking Intel on manufacturing - as a matter of fact, I was trying to see whether using air as a medium was retarded, of which I was doubtful according to my somewhat limited knowledge (apparently, it is far from being lame) - I was trying to see if endyen had a point or really was a dork.

Attacking Intel on manufacturing is groundless. However, chip design is another matter - Netburst, Netburst, Netburst - and marketing yet another one (MTH, P-3 1.13GHz...).

Considering currently available products, AMD has the lead in design, and in actually launching innovative, efficient products. This may change, but considering Intel's past history many people are getting dubious of Intel's announcements.

AMD: first publicly available 1 GHz chip - first publicly available 64-bit x86 chip - first publicly available true dual core CPU.

Intel: first chip past the GHz barrier, buggy (removed from retail) - first publicly available 64-bit chip: Itanium, never sold in mass due to lackluster performance in x86 code execution - Pentium D: uses FSB to make the cores communicate.

Intel did get HT, SSE and DDR2. On the other hand, AMD managed to squeeze much more performance out of 'older' manufacturing processes than Intel did, so while Intel may have the lead in this area of innovation, AMD may have a better mastery of the manufacturing process.

Don't forget that AMD actually entered this business engraving Intel's CPUs (I actually saw an AMD/Intel 386/LX, bearing both marks)...

 

[tamalsmith]

130nm FX-55 CLAWHAMMER......

Denial?? :roll:

130nm is irrelevent the point being it was consistently beaten by a yonah core that was clocked 40Mhz slower than it was.

2600 MHz FX 55
2560 MHz Pentium M dothan.

*gr8mikey bangs head against wall and realizes he might have greater success having a debate with said wall
excuse my ignorance but I'm a bit confused, first some guys.. or more like INTEL CONROE fanboys shows-offs their benchmarks against a FX-60.
then they say its ok to "compare" and "benchmark" a new core cpu vs a older core cpu....that seems ok right?
well Im still confused why then again they compare a super old 130mm Clawhammer against a Dothan.....
its like comparing 65mm Pentium D with the Prescott 90mm counterparts, the diference is huge... 😵

Yet Conroe lovers at same time speculate about conroe speed and claim that AM2 will be slower, while they of course dont get the point that AM2 current cpus are still using 90mm technology with older cores.

so the question here is.. why the conroe lovers claim "AM2" is the new gen AMD cpu, when its just a new gen platform? thus making the AM2 90mm vs Conroe 65mm fight "Fair" ?
AM2 are just a TOLEDO revF using 90mm that supports DDR-2. this is not a completely new chip 😵


what they need to compare is new gen cpus vs new gen cpus
not new platforms vs new platforms

its like comparing a pIII with a "newer" mainboard but same core and same clockspeeds vs a AMD athlon 64 X2.

could we clasify that comparation fair??
I mean, just because the PIII could get DDR2 and have a new mainboard, does it classify as a "NEXT GEN CPU" ?

I think conroe fans are still blindfolded, conroe chipset is indeed very good, and beats the hell outa of ACTUAL AMD CPU CORES ( we're actually talking of VENUS, ORLEANS, TOLEDO )

so the fight should be "CONROE VS TOLEDO" rather than "CONROE VS AM2"


let me rephrase it
AM2= NEW PLATFORM, NOT NEW CORE.

CPU core technology is NOT EQUAL to NEW PLATFORM.

so unless AMD gets his "PARIS" code out ( or whatever the new 65mm cpu core with the improved technology is named )
let's dont make "INTEL OWNS AMD NOW"
and remember kids, conroe is still not out in shops, nor amd's counterparts.


*edited for some typoos*

 

[enewmen]

Moving to 65nm? Blah Blah Blah.
I think it will take more than a few MHz to beat the Conroe.
I'm not a fanboy, but as good as the X2 is, I think AMD needs to do a lot more.
I was hoping to hear about the K10.

 

[conroe]

News is that AMD has much increased it's production, yields AND raised prices. Prices should go down with yields, shouldn't they?

 

[INeedCache]

Most of you sound like gossipy, cranky old women sitting around the beauty parlor passing time. Who cares who makes what. Performance is performance and price is price. I care about getting the most performance at the best price. Whoever offers that gets my money. Are you walking billboards, mindless fanboys, or a combination of the two? Can't find anything else worth discussing? Try a beauty parlor near you.

 

[enewmen]

Ya.
Increasing production is a start.

 

[Omerta]

because it was built as an extension to fab 11. It is quite a long building. I started out working in Fab11 in 1995.

 

[Omerta]

That is a pretty good question. I am a technician, not a IE, but I imagine that it is because Fab11x is now taking over (converting to 300mm) the lower southern portion of Fab11. We have actually pretty well run out of space on this site and would need to demolish fab7 in order to build again.

 

[Omerta]

Wow. Sorry I don't have the answer to every little detail. What do you care anyway? I don't think I'd get a different answer from anyone else.

 

[Omerta]

Oh, and engineers? they really don't like to be here past sun-down :roll:

 

[Omerta]

I'm not sure what exactly you are refferring to. we have OHV's (Overhead Hoist Vehicles) that deliver lots to the tools/from the tools and Cars that carry the lots to the next destination. We track everything using WorkStream. That is Lot Annotation and Tool Documentation. We also use SPC++ as our statistical process control. We also have station controllers that fully automate the operation of the tools and the processing of lots. We have SO much tracking and documentation it is ridiculous. We have Specs that contain all of our procedures, limits, etc...

Did that answer your question? I'm just not sure what you were asking.