AMD Unveils Zen Microarchitecture, Demos Summit Ridge Performance

[blppt]

" Most enthusiasts have realized that 5GHz stock clock frequency is largely pointless when overall performance isn't there, especially when a 8320/8350 can get you most of the way there with conservative overclocking for less than $200 including the aftermarket heatsink while using less than 200W."

Its actually not even 5ghz--only under turbo does the cpu ever hit 5.0ghz, and that only occurs under light core loading. 4.7 is where its at most of the time.

 

[RedJaron]

Leo, please do not add to the derailment. And if you're going to insinuate I'm being mean, rude, or nasty, I challenge you to point out any place I've resorted to name calling and personal insults.

 

[hotroderx]

I bet I am the only person who is thinking! Who cares about 5-10% faster! Seriously when was the last time a Sandy/Ivy Bridge CPU wasn't plenty fast enough for even the most demanding task. I think people need to stop looking at CPU's as how much horsepower do they offer. At this point where kinda at maximum saturation. Where faster really doesn't mean a lot. Cutting down a work load by 2-3 secs isn't a big deal for gamers are the average joe on the street. Companies maybe over the course of a year that add up but still. Its like having a car with 1200 Hp is it really any better then one with 600hp. They both can only go so fast. Instead we need to focus on value and what the chipset the CPU supports offers. The only reason intel is selling newer chips is because the Z77 doesn't support things like NVME.

 

[uglyduckling81]

Ugly & Red can't we just all get along, I don't think if we disagree with each other we need to be rude and nasty. Sometimes there is no one correct point of view. Keep it fun and friendly it is good there are lots of points of views posted. I think we all need to do better to try not to insult each other or each others hind quarters.

That being said, I agree what was said before roll out the Zen already!

Agreed.

No idea why that guy is getting all bent out of sorts for me calling it like it is. It's like he is the founder of the companies and I'm making a personal attack against him, or like religious people getting mad when someone tells them god isn't real. They believe so devoutly their only response is anger.

Back on track.

Go AMD, bring me choice at a fair price.

 

[Saga Lout]

The thread might be back on track when you've finished making personal attacks on other posters. You're on the Mods watch list, uglyduckling81 so be careful what you post.

These Intel -v- AMD threads can degenerate quickly enough without any help by you.

 

[uglyduckling81]

The thread might be back on track when you've finished making personal attacks on other posters. You're on the Mods watch list, uglyduckling81 so be careful what you post.

These Intel -v- AMD threads can degenerate quickly enough without any help by you.

Literally made no personal attack on him at all.
When someone is so devout toward a company they get all angry and insulting when another person doesn't hold them on the same pedestal, that's pretty much the definition of a fanboy. Calling them what they are isn't insulting it's just the truth, there is no malice in it. I'm not making some kind of nasty post calling him stupid or other things of a nastier nature.
If you don't want to be called a fanboy then don't act the part. It's simple.
Thanks for the warning/threat though I assume you meant to write it at the angry guy attacking me rather than at me. An honest mistake.
Take care.

 

[Samer1970]

Any news about the Zen Chipset ? how many PCIe Lanes in the ZEN ?

 

[falchard]

It's rumored to have 128 pci-e lanes. But this would be for the server chips. Probably gonna run 64 on Desktop chips. I wouldn't worry about it until the silicon hits the review sites.

 

[Saga Lout]

Thanks for the warning/threat though I assume you meant to write it at the angry guy attacking me rather than at me. An honest mistake.
Take care.

No mistake on my part. Have a three day enforced holiday away from Tom's and re-read this thread before trying to post anything else.

 

[Samer1970]

It's rumored to have 128 pci-e lanes. But this would be for the server chips. Probably gonna run 64 on Desktop chips. I wouldn't worry about it until the silicon hits the review sites.

That would generate alot of heat , I doubt it ... I was expecting something between 32 and 64

 

[Memhorder]

You dont even need to go back that far---the 9590, if memory serves was at least supposed to launch at $1k, and I think it even sold for that price a month or so after launch, before AMD cut prices drastically.

When the 9590 came out and failed to consistently beat Intel's i3 and i5 chips while consuming three times as much power, demand for it simply wasn't there. Most enthusiasts have realized that 5GHz stock clock frequency is largely pointless when overall performance isn't there, especially when a 8320/8350 can get you most of the way there with conservative overclocking for less than $200 including the aftermarket heatsink while using less than 200W.

That's what I was saying. It didn't matter that the 9590 was a beefed up 8350 and performed as such. They still slapped it with a $1000 dollar price tag and called it a day, until it was dissected and benched. That's when they were forced to lower the price tag.

If Zen is as good as this article makes it out to be, AMD is back in the sub $250 market again.

More like "AMD is back in the over-$200 market."

Now we have a chip that can do more IPS than the competition. (Well, what the competition has currently. Who knows what they will have in Q1 2017) The i7 6900K is worth $1,409 in Canada at the time. I'm thinking this will be the next $1000 chip. I hope not but honestly.

 

[InvalidError]

The i7 6900K is worth $14,009 in Canada at the time.

You can get the i7-6950X for $2230:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7RD4FE9674&cm_re=i7-6950-_-19-117-643-_-Product

If you want to spend over $10k CAN on a CPU, you have to look at the top-end of the Xeon E7 lineup.

 

[Memhorder]

The i7 6900K is worth $14,009 in Canada at the time.

You can get the i7-6950X for $2230:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7RD4FE9674&cm_re=i7-6950-_-19-117-643-_-Product

If you want to spend over $10k CAN on a CPU, you have to look at the top-end of the Xeon E7 lineup.

wooops extra 0 edited. Yeah the 10 core Broadwell $2,239

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_1210_65&item_id=095970

I just don't see these being that cheap except the lower tier versions.

 

[RedJaron]

I bet I am the only person who is thinking! Who cares about 5-10% faster! Seriously when was the last time a Sandy/Ivy Bridge CPU wasn't plenty fast enough for even the most demanding task. I think people need to stop looking at CPU's as how much horsepower do they offer. At this point where kinda at maximum saturation. Where faster really doesn't mean a lot. Cutting down a work load by 2-3 secs isn't a big deal for gamers are the average joe on the street. Companies maybe over the course of a year that add up but still. Its like having a car with 1200 Hp is it really any better then one with 600hp. They both can only go so fast. Instead we need to focus on value and what the chipset the CPU supports offers. The only reason intel is selling newer chips is because the Z77 doesn't support things like NVME.

No, you're not the only one who doesn't care about that last 5%, though there are plenty that want the bragging rights. And yes, you've hit on a big thing, like those of us still using SB-based systems don't have USB 3.1, M.2 / NVMe, and other new features.

But a big chunk of value is the raw performance you get from a part or system in ratio to how much you spend on it. So even though you may get a plethora of very valuable auxiliary features, overall value suffers if your computer simply feels slow. For general home and office use, it's doubtful most people could tell the difference if they were using an AMD or Intel system. But in many more demanding tasks, Intel is pretty dominant right now.

That's why Zen is fairly exciting. If they have truly caught up with Intel in IPC and efficiency, it makes their CPUs equally as desirable as Intel's ( all other factors considered equal ).

 

[InvalidError]

That's why Zen is fairly exciting. If they have truly caught up with Intel in IPC and efficiency, it makes their CPUs equally as desirable as Intel's ( all other factors considered equal ).

Even if Zen offers equal performance, it still has one disadvantage: it is new, which means it has no track record other than AMD's own less-than-stellar previous CPUs.

Given a choice of two similar-performing and similarly-priced CPUs, most people will stick with the brand they are most familiar with or has the better recent track record. Zen will need to provide at least somewhat better value to compete.

 

[RedJaron]

Even if Zen offers equal performance, it still has one disadvantage: it is new, which means it has no track record other than AMD's own less-than-stellar previous CPUs.

Given a choice of two similar-performing and similarly-priced CPUs, most people will stick with the brand they are most familiar with or has the better recent track record. Zen will need to provide at least somewhat better value to compete.

Exactly true, which is why I said all other factors being equal. Reputation and prestige are not equal between the two right now. There will be other things too, like mboard price and features, which new codecs and instruction sets Zen will have, whether Zen will need more robust power and cooling solutions, like BD and PD did, etc.

 

[Samer1970]

That's why Zen is fairly exciting. If they have truly caught up with Intel in IPC and efficiency, it makes their CPUs equally as desirable as Intel's ( all other factors considered equal ).

Even if Zen offers equal performance, it still has one disadvantage: it is new, which means it has no track record other than AMD's own less-than-stellar previous CPUs.

Given a choice of two similar-performing and similarly-priced CPUs, most people will stick with the brand they are most familiar with or has the better recent track record. Zen will need to provide at least somewhat better value to compete.

dont worry , AMD fans are in millions ... They will come back .. Actually most the people I know who were AMD fans wish for AMD to come back.

 

[bit_user]

Leo, please do not add to the derailment. And if you're going to insinuate I'm being mean, rude, or nasty, I challenge you to point out any place I've resorted to name calling and personal insults.

Ego is the root of all flame wars.

Personal attacks only work if you accept them. If you simply take a policy if of stating that you don't respond to them and move on, then they lose their power.

The following sorts of things only escalate matters:

Oh my. Zing! You really got me there. That snappy repartee really cut me to the core. Do I need to borrow your virtue signalling tactic and recite my system spec history for the last 20 years to prove I'm not the dreaded F word? It takes more than a few anonymous words in an online forum to ruffle my feathers.

You accepted the attack and got defensive.

Your own words are, "What we do know though is Intel has been bending us all over for years," and, "We were all just chugging along accepting Nvidia to ream us for $550 for that privilege." So obviously you do have something against them.

Making the debate about the other person, instead of focusing on the point of disagreement.

Again with the entitlement.

Unnecessary and turns a valid point into an attack.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

I'm probably missing some history, but I don't see how this adds value to the discussion.

And don't forget that personal attacks and insults are against the forum ToD, so consider this your warning.

As a mod, you should aspire to a higher standard of conduct. Just my opinion.

My words and arguments have been founded in logic and fact.

If an argument is not based on logic and fact, then point out what you find lacking and move on. Let them chose to reply with better data or drop the point completely. Don't try to corner them.

The main thing is that arguments on these forums are not won. We can learn things by having debates and discussions, but you can't make somebody admit they're wrong. What you can do is focus on the issues and make it easy for someone to back off or concede a point.

People make mistakes, don't have all the information, and don't all have the same abilities. Some are not native English speakers and some are just replying on their phone or tablet. When someone makes a misstep, don't rub their face in it.

IMO, 99% of the time you use your mod powers should be on exchanges between others. If you're frequently modding discussions that you're also involved in, then maybe step back and have a think about your approach and its impact.

Do you want to be a calming or an inflammatory influence, here? It's not about being weak vs. strong, it's about the decision to focus on the issues and try to shut down everything else with as little drama as possible.


Feel free to ignore this. I don't have a dog in this fight. These are just some lessons I've learned that I thought I'd take time to share.

 

[bit_user]

Thinking about it some more, I guess I do have a small stake in the matter, because I want these forums to be a place where positive contributions are encouraged and rewarded. The site is a source of information, and the forums are a way that readers can participate in information sharing. I think we all want the best information.

Forums dominated by flame wars discourage good contributors from sticking around and bring out the worst in people, instead of challenging them and helping them grow.

Informing people and helping them grow are what a good community can do, at its best. If we agree, then how can we all maximize these effects?

 

[USAFRet]

...how can we all maximize these effects?

By presenting facts, and letting them speak for themselves.

I have no dog in this fight, other than attempting to have a viable conversation.
If old AMD, or Zen, or Intel is a better CPU, at a particular price and performance point, great. Show us.
With facts.

 

[Virtual_Singularity]

I dun believe it. Actual words of wisdom anyone could learn from, and here at Tom's, on this thread! Well said, bit_user (+ USAFret).

 

[falchard]

I bet I am the only person who is thinking! Who cares about 5-10% faster! Seriously when was the last time a Sandy/Ivy Bridge CPU wasn't plenty fast enough for even the most demanding task. I think people need to stop looking at CPU's as how much horsepower do they offer. At this point where kinda at maximum saturation. Where faster really doesn't mean a lot. Cutting down a work load by 2-3 secs isn't a big deal for gamers are the average joe on the street. Companies maybe over the course of a year that add up but still. Its like having a car with 1200 Hp is it really any better then one with 600hp. They both can only go so fast. Instead we need to focus on value and what the chipset the CPU supports offers. The only reason intel is selling newer chips is because the Z77 doesn't support things like NVME.

No, you're not the only one who doesn't care about that last 5%, though there are plenty that want the bragging rights. And yes, you've hit on a big thing, like those of us still using SB-based systems don't have USB 3.1, M.2 / NVMe, and other new features.

But a big chunk of value is the raw performance you get from a part or system in ratio to how much you spend on it. So even though you may get a plethora of very valuable auxiliary features, overall value suffers if your computer simply feels slow. For general home and office use, it's doubtful most people could tell the difference if they were using an AMD or Intel system. But in many more demanding tasks, Intel is pretty dominant right now.

That's why Zen is fairly exciting. If they have truly caught up with Intel in IPC and efficiency, it makes their CPUs equally as desirable as Intel's ( all other factors considered equal ).

I don't think Zen has caught up to Intel in terms of performance per clock and efficiency. The only way that will happen is if they had identical architectures. They target slightly different things and do so in different ways. To truly gauge how equal the Zen is to Intel, it would be better in some applications and worse in others. Then you pick the CPU thats best for your needs. What the previous FX processors did well was 3D rendering. However, it was the only task it did better than Intel. The problem AMD has which they will never overcome is that companies develop for Intel. If they do something that may make the Intel perform worse, yet the AMD will perform better they will opt in favor of the Intel.
The best thing AMD has going for it is the future of integrated graphics. Where an Intel must be paired with a GPU to get decent graphic performance, AMD has just recently started meeting the minimum specs for VR on integrated with the new XBox and PlayStation. This could potentially mean the extinction of mid-range graphics cards and could mean it's more valuable to use an AMD instead of Intel + a nVidia card.

 

[RedJaron]

Falchard, I'd say they're on the right track. Zen is beating Broadwell-E clock-for-clock in Blender according to this test. AMD hasn't been able to that for a long while ( BD vs SB, PD vs IB, etc ).

 

[InvalidError]

I don't think Zen has caught up to Intel in terms of performance per clock and efficiency. The only way that will happen is if they had identical architectures.

With a significantly updated architecture, it isn't far-fetched for Zen's performance characteristics to have improved overall. One of the biggest changes in Zen is the use of a micro-op cache to eliminate the instruction decoder from the small execution loop overhead. That's one of the key differences between the Core 2 and the Pentium 3. Cutting the instruction decoder bottleneck out of tight loops should improve performance in many everyday applications by a fair amount.

 

[falchard]

Falchard, I'd say they're on the right track. Zen is beating Broadwell-E clock-for-clock in Blender according to this test. AMD hasn't been able to that for a long while ( BD vs SB, PD vs IB, etc ).

I already know that AMD performs better in 3D applications. It's the main reason why I got an 8370e for my current system. I need minor CPU-based 3D rendering using Blender. Considering it had $1000 Intel CPU performance at $200 it was a no brainer. But this is the only area it won in. There is always that last 10% where it performs worse in because the architecture cannot complete an instruction in as little time as Intel. I believe this difference to be what the architectures are designed to achieve. However, I will be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong. Even if it isn't I am still getting a Zen for my next CPU, once again for its CPU-based 3D rendering ability.