AMD's Future Chips & SoC's: News, Info & Rumours.

[jdwii]

I'll never understand the stock market Amd shows 12nm and they won a major deal with tesla and their stock still drops what does it take?

This point i wonder if its even possible for Amd to be at 20$ if zen beat Intel even all around.

Sad that Basically Amd won't have an answer for coffee-lake for a whole year longer besides price cuts.

Edit actually after looking at the rumored pricing for coffee-lake maybe Amd won't have much to worry about 200$ for a unlocked I3(cough cough current I5) lol digital foundry already did a video showing a 1600 at 3.8ghz beating a 4.8ghz I5 in modern titles and the 1600 is about that price and is better in productivity

6 core locked I5 for 285$ that is more then a 1700 which will beat it in productivity and for gaming why would people buy either CPU over the locked I3 coffee-lake or 1600 in most builds. !$400! for the 6 core 12 thread I7 what the heck kind of crap is Intel smoking if true. No word on motherboard prices and if the mid-range socket will allow overclocking.

They really have the chance to knock Amd across the floor and it looks like they are pulling an apple instead

 

[8350rocks]

When discussing about intel 10 nm vs GF 7nm

(i) I can trust Intel data.

In the end you cannot trust Intel data either. Looks like Intel cannon-lake has been delayed to late-2018 reportedly due to 10nm issues.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20170920PD207.html
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3017743/intel-reportedly-delays-10nm-cannon-lake-cpus-until-late-2018
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/59209/intel-delays-10nm-cpu-tech-third-time-late-2018/index.html
https://www.neowin.net/news/intels-10nm-cannonlake-processors-delayed-to-late-2018
https://www.dvhardware.net/article67284.html

Intel reschedules Cannon Lake launch to year-end 2018, say sources SAY SOURCES ?????? what sources? A guy in a basement?

No, cannon lake was pushed back almost a year due to foundry difficulties. After 3 long years of trying, Intel still cannot get their 10nm to work.

 

[goldstone77]

Node Warfare?
GlobalFoundries unveils 12nm finFET process; foundries jockey for position on way to next full node.
SEPTEMBER 20TH, 2017 - BY: MARK LAPEDUS

By Mark LaPedus & Ed Sperling
GlobalFoundries uncorked a 12nm finFET process, which the company said will provide a 15% increase in density and more than 10% improvement in performance over the foundry’s existing 14nm process.

This is GlobalFoundries’ second 12nm process. It announced a 12nm FD-SOI process called 12FDX last September, although it first mentioned a 12nm process back in July of last year.

The announcement adds to the flood of process node numbers in semiconductor manufacturing these days. The reasoning behind all of this activity is that even though 7nm—the next full node—will be introduced next year, it will take time before that process is mature enough for commercial production. Foundries are trying to provide enough options to hold onto existing customers until that happens, while also tapping potential customers in new markets.

The new business involves sectors such as automotive, IoT, communications infrastructure, and artificial intelligence/machine learning. GlobalFoundries, for example, is taking aim at the automotive and RF/analog markets with its new process. The 12LP process is expected to meet Automotive Grade 2 qualification next quarter, which under AEC-Q100 means it will operate at temperatures between -40°C and +105°C, and it is being targeted for transceivers in 6GHz wireless networks.

“It builds on 14nm,” said Sanjay Jha, CEO of GlobalFoundries. “It pushes new designs and constructs.”

He noted that shipments are expected to begin in the first half of next year.

Still, there are now so many process node numbers out there that it’s becoming difficult to sort through them all, a task made all the more difficult because the numbers don’t match up from one foundry to the next. Intel’s 14nm process, for example, has double the number of transistors as TSMC’s 16nm, while Intel’s 10nm process is roughly the same as TSMC’s forthcoming 7nm.

Joanne Itow, managing director for manufacturing at Semico Research, said foundry customers have to do their homework to make sense of all of this.

“You have to do a lot of analysis of what process works with your products,” she said, noting that each foundry appears to be taking a base process and then proliferating it. She described GlobalFoundries move as a small tweak that gives customers new options.

And there is certainly plenty of node tweaking underway. TSMC unveiled a 12nm process this month, while Samsung introduced an 11nm process. In addition, Samsung announced 8nm, 7nm, 6nm, 5nm, and 4nm finFET processes in May, and said it plans to introduce 18nm FD-SOI in 2019.

 

[adamsleath]

When discussing about intel 10 nm vs GF 7nm

(i) I can trust Intel data.

In the end you cannot trust Intel data either. Looks like Intel cannon-lake has been delayed to late-2018 reportedly due to 10nm issues.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20170920PD207.html
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3017743/intel-reportedly-delays-10nm-cannon-lake-cpus-until-late-2018
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/59209/intel-delays-10nm-cpu-tech-third-time-late-2018/index.html
https://www.neowin.net/news/intels-10nm-cannonlake-processors-delayed-to-late-2018
https://www.dvhardware.net/article67284.html

Intel reschedules Cannon Lake launch to year-end 2018, say sources SAY SOURCES ?????? what sources? A guy in a basement?

No, cannon lake was pushed back almost a year due to foundry difficulties. After 3 long years of trying, Intel still cannot get their 10nm to work.

https://www.bit-tech.net/news/tech/cpus/intel-shows-off-10nm-cannon-lake-wafer-at-beijing-event/1/

already posted . 10nm must be working now.

As well as showing off proof that it can build 10nm Cannon Lake parts - or, at least, put them on a wafer - the company made bold claims about the superiority of its delayed 10nm node compared to the competition.

didnt intel do a show where they had a cannonlake mobile part in a laptop?

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/6qv90m/core_ix8000_series_comes_with_parts_from_kaby/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11722/intel-reveals-ice-lake-core-architecture-10nm-plus

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/design/products-and-solutions/processors-and-chipsets/platform-codenames.html#search-0=ice%20lake - ice lake


also this:
https://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/110318-intel-10nm-cannon-lake-cpus-delayed-end-2018/

According to Taiwanese supply chain sources, Intel will delay the rollout for the bulk of its 10nm Cannon Lake processor range until the end of 2018. A report published by DigiTimes says that the processors will be so late that some laptop makers, for example, are considering skipping the generation and will instead plan for Ice Lake based products, which now follow hot on the heels of the re-scheduled Cannon Lake parts.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/mainboard/110231-intel-z390-readied-support-8c16t-processors/

A big clue to why Intel is launching Z390 in H2 2018 was provided by a Eurocom Support exec this weekend. As VideoCardz reports, the representative might have just "inadvertently revealed the biggest secret of the new chipset". It looks like the Z390 will be introduced to support new octa-core (and up to 16 thread) Intel CPUs.

Eurocom is well known for building desktop replacement and mobile workstation laptops, often using desktop parts. "We are planning to update Tornado F5 to Z390 chipset supporting 8C/16T CPUs coming in H2/18. We will launch F7 at the same time too. We will skip z370 chipset. Meantime we added support for Quadro P5000 and P3000," the Eurocom rep told NoteBookReview forum members.

 

[juanrga]

I'll never understand the stock market Amd shows 12nm and they won a major deal with tesla and their stock still drops what does it take?

Most market was expecting Zen on 14nm+ in the first half of 2018. I was!

Small part of market was expecting Zen2 on 7nm in 2018. Those that trusted nonsense from semiwiki about Glofo foundry. Those that trusted news about Lisa Su promising Zen and Navi tapeout on 7nm this year (when she didn't mention those products). I advised those sites published fake news. I advised those foundry analysts from semiwiki published fake claims. I advised of all that!

The truth is that AMD has announced Zen and Vega on 14nm+ in the second half of 2018; moreover, this 14nm+ has been relabeled as 12LP.

The Tesla win is nice, but it is "noise", compared with the wins from Nvidia and Intel

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/nvidia-investors-should-ignore-the-noise-about-a-tesla-amd-partnership-2017-09-21

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/09/waymos-autonomous-vehicles-are-powered-by-intel/

The AMD stock drops because part of the hype sustaining the former value has gone.

 

[juanrga]

Edit actually after looking at the rumored pricing for coffee-lake maybe Amd won't have much to worry about 200$ for a unlocked I3(cough cough current I5) lol digital foundry already did a video showing a 1600 at 3.8ghz beating a 4.8ghz I5 in modern titles and the 1600 is about that price and is better in productivity

Anandtech mentions $400 for the top i7, still I can get one of those at lower price...

 

[juanrga]

When discussing about intel 10 nm vs GF 7nm

(i) I can trust Intel data.

In the end you cannot trust Intel data either. Looks like Intel cannon-lake has been delayed to late-2018 reportedly due to 10nm issues.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20170920PD207.html
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3017743/intel-reportedly-delays-10nm-cannon-lake-cpus-until-late-2018
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/59209/intel-delays-10nm-cpu-tech-third-time-late-2018/index.html
https://www.neowin.net/news/intels-10nm-cannonlake-processors-delayed-to-late-2018
https://www.dvhardware.net/article67284.html

Intel reschedules Cannon Lake launch to year-end 2018, say sources SAY SOURCES ?????? what sources? A guy in a basement?

No, cannon lake was pushed back almost a year due to foundry difficulties. After 3 long years of trying, Intel still cannot get their 10nm to work.

A wafer of 10nm Canonlake chips

A wafer of 10nm ARM chips

If you want more details, those are Cortex A57 cores running at 3.2GHz.

 

[aldaia]

All this theories about why AMD stock drops are nice, but irrelevant and useles. AMD stock has not droped.
Last friday was below 12.50 yesterday closed at 13.41

September 20 some rumor (maybe intel 10 nm rumor?) fueled shares from 13 to 14 in a very short time. Market is just re-adjusting. I wouldn't be surprised if shares go back to 13

 

[aldaia]

A wafer of 10nm Canonlake chips
A wafer of 10nm ARM chips

I agree that 10 nm delay to late 2018 is just a rumor (pending to be either debunked or confirmed).
However your argument proves nothing. Wafers can be displayed more than one year before the real product is released.

 

[goldstone77]

All this theories about why AMD stock drops are nice, but irrelevant and useles. AMD stock has not droped.
Last friday was below 12.50 yesterday closed at 13.41

September 20 some rumor (maybe intel 10 nm rumor?) fueled shares from 13 to 14 in a very short time. Market is just re-adjusting. I wouldn't be surprised if shares go back to 13

I can see the information from my news feed through ThinkorSwim TD Ameritrade. It went up based on rumors of AMD working with Tesla to create A.I. for driverless vehicles. If you notice that Nvidia stock dropped upon release of this news.

Edit: Tesla is working with AMD to develop its own A.I. chip for self-driving cars, says source
Tesla is working with AMD to refine its new chip, which will likely reduce its reliance on Nvidia.
Tesla has more than 50 employees involved in the project, including chip star Jim Keller.
Jordan Novet | @jordannovet
Published 3:50 PM ET Wed, 20 Sept 2017 Updated 8:41 AM ET Thu, 21 Sept 2017
CNBC.com

 

[jdwii]

All this theories about why AMD stock drops are nice, but irrelevant and useles. AMD stock has not droped.
Last friday was below 12.50 yesterday closed at 13.41

September 20 some rumor (maybe intel 10 nm rumor?) fueled shares from 13 to 14 in a very short time. Market is just re-adjusting. I wouldn't be surprised if shares go back to 13

I can see the information from my news feed through ThinkorSwim TD Ameritrade. It went up based on rumors of AMD working with Tesla to create A.I. for driverless vehicles. If you notice that Nvidia stock dropped upon release of this news.

Edit: Tesla is working with AMD to develop its own A.I. chip for self-driving cars, says source
Tesla is working with AMD to refine its new chip, which will likely reduce its reliance on Nvidia.
Tesla has more than 50 employees involved in the project, including chip star Jim Keller.
Jordan Novet | @jordannovet
Published 3:50 PM ET Wed, 20 Sept 2017 Updated 8:41 AM ET Thu, 21 Sept 2017
CNBC.com

Man i forgot Jim Keller worked their now i wonder if he had anything to do with this deal.

 

[8350rocks]

All this theories about why AMD stock drops are nice, but irrelevant and useles. AMD stock has not droped.
Last friday was below 12.50 yesterday closed at 13.41

September 20 some rumor (maybe intel 10 nm rumor?) fueled shares from 13 to 14 in a very short time. Market is just re-adjusting. I wouldn't be surprised if shares go back to 13

I can see the information from my news feed through ThinkorSwim TD Ameritrade. It went up based on rumors of AMD working with Tesla to create A.I. for driverless vehicles. If you notice that Nvidia stock dropped upon release of this news.

Edit: Tesla is working with AMD to develop its own A.I. chip for self-driving cars, says source
Tesla is working with AMD to refine its new chip, which will likely reduce its reliance on Nvidia.
Tesla has more than 50 employees involved in the project, including chip star Jim Keller.
Jordan Novet | @jordannovet
Published 3:50 PM ET Wed, 20 Sept 2017 Updated 8:41 AM ET Thu, 21 Sept 2017
CNBC.com

Man i forgot Jim Keller worked their now i wonder if he had anything to do with this deal.

They hired JK specifically to help design this processor. If he thought Nvidia had a good toolbox, I am sure they would be going that direction.

 

[jdwii]

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-vega-20-and-ryzen-5-pro-mobile-say-hello.html

Amd is aiming Ryzen 5 PRO mobile at kabylake I5 based CPU's shows a decent advantage in Cinebench and 3d mark 11

Also states Pinnacle Ridge will have a performance uplift which is probably what we all assume 5% boost.

This year must be over for new releases i thought Raven Ridge was coming out in the 4Q of 2017 but its a 2018 product

 

[-Fran-]

Ah, curses!

I wanted to see RR this year.

Oh welp. More track for the train to go faster, lol.

Cheers!

 

[juanrga]

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-vega-20-and-ryzen-5-pro-mobile-say-hello.html

Amd is aiming Ryzen 5 PRO mobile at kabylake I5 based CPU's shows a decent advantage in Cinebench and 3d mark 11

Also states Pinnacle Ridge will have a performance uplift which is probably what we all assume 5% boost.

This year must be over for new releases i thought Raven Ridge was coming out in the 4Q of 2017 but its a 2018 product

Raven Ridge for AM4, as Pinnacle Ridge, was always scheduled for 2018. You can find this old roadmap repeated a couple of times in this thread

Nice to see confirmation of what I have been saying during months [1]. Zen2 is a 2019 product. 2018 is all Zen.

[1] Those foundry analysts from semiwiki were wrong, when they said that AMD 7nm products would launch next year. And all those journalists that claimed that Zen2 tapeout this year did mean a 2018 launch were also wrong.

 

[goldstone77]

AMD Zen 2 Architecture: Socket AM4, 2019, Code-named "Matisse"
by Raevenlord Tuesday, September 26th 2017 05:00

AMD's Zen-based Ryzen and Threadripper have been said by the company as representing the "worst case scenario" of performance for their architecture. This is based on the fact that there are clear areas for improvement that AMD's engineers were keenly aware of even at the moment of Zen's tapping-out; inadvertently, some features or improvements were left on the chopping block due to time and budget constraints. As unfortunate as this is - who wouldn't love to have even more performance on their AMD processors - this also means AMD has a clear starting point in terms of improving performance of their Zen micro-architecture.

Spanish website Informatica Cero have gotten their hands on what they say is an exclusive, real piece of information from inside AMD, which shows the company's CPU roadmap until 2019, bringing some new details with it. On the desktop side, there's mention of AMD's "Pinacle Ridge" as succeeding the current Zen-based "Summit Ridge" Ryzen CPUs in 2018. These leverage the same Summit Ridge architecture, but with a performance uplift; this plays well into those reports of 12 nm being used to manufacture the second-generation Ryzen: it's an AMD tick, so to say. As such, the performance uplift likely comes from increased frequencies at the same power envelope, due to 12 nm's denser manufacturing design.

Another interesting tidbit from this slide is the confirmation of AMD's Zen 2 processors being released in 2019. Based on the company's revised Zen 2 cores (which should see those architectural improvements we were talking about in the beginning of this piece), AMD also seems to be doing away with the ridge-like codenames they've been using in recent times, and taking a more artistic approach. Matisse seems to be the code-name for AMD's Zen 2 architecture, and if you know your painters, it looks like AMD is betting on its Zen 2 cores to further define and influence CPU design. There is no mention of increased Zen threads, however, which likely points towards AMD keeping the same 8-core, 16-thread design as with their current Summit Ridge. This likely plays into AMD's plan for keeping the AM4 socket relevant - while good for consumers who might want to see longevity in their platform, it does prevent AMD from making more radical design changes to their architecture.
Jumping towards its notebook/desktop APU designs, AMD is looking to accompany Matisse with their code-named Picasso APUs for 2019. These should still leverage the company's upcoming Raven Ridge line of APUs, which pair Vega 11 NCUs on the graphical side of the equation and up to 8 Zen threads (4-core CPUs with SMT). However, usage of 12 nm processes across both its Zen CPU cores and Vega 11 NCUs apparently give AMD confidence that they can improve Picasso over Raven Ridge not only in the performance fields, but also the power consumption metrics.

A little bit of lore: AMD seems to be changing their code-names towards painters, and the marriage of Matisse in the CPU and Picasso in the APU space isn't a coincidence. Both artists are considered two of the most important players in the arts space of the beginning of the twentieth century, responsible for both defining and developing the arts. AMD's choice of both of them is, therefore, not a fluke; it's likely more of an artistic take on the company's vision of further defining itself as a key innovative player in the CPU space.

 

[jdwii]

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-vega-20-and-ryzen-5-pro-mobile-say-hello.html

Amd is aiming Ryzen 5 PRO mobile at kabylake I5 based CPU's shows a decent advantage in Cinebench and 3d mark 11

Also states Pinnacle Ridge will have a performance uplift which is probably what we all assume 5% boost.

This year must be over for new releases i thought Raven Ridge was coming out in the 4Q of 2017 but its a 2018 product

Raven Ridge for AM4, as Pinnacle Ridge, was always scheduled for 2018. You can find this old roadmap repeated a couple of times in this thread

Nice to see confirmation of what I have been saying during months [1]. Zen2 is a 2019 product. 2018 is all Zen.

[1] Those foundry analysts from semiwiki were wrong, when they said that AMD 7nm products would launch next year. And all those journalists that claimed that Zen2 tapeout this year did mean a 2018 launch were also wrong.

Well some rumors showed 4th quarter of this year shame since the current APU's are only practical for oems

 

[jaymc]

I'll never understand the stock market Amd shows 12nm and they won a major deal with tesla and their stock still drops what does it take?

This point i wonder if its even possible for Amd to be at 20$ if zen beat Intel even all around.

Sad that Basically Amd won't have an answer for coffee-lake for a whole year longer besides price cuts.

Edit actually after looking at the rumored pricing for coffee-lake maybe Amd won't have much to worry about 200$ for a unlocked I3(cough cough current I5) lol digital foundry already did a video showing a 1600 at 3.8ghz beating a 4.8ghz I5 in modern titles and the 1600 is about that price and is better in productivity

6 core locked I5 for 285$ that is more then a 1700 which will beat it in productivity and for gaming why would people buy either CPU over the locked I3 coffee-lake or 1600 in most builds. !$400! for the 6 core 12 thread I7 what the heck kind of crap is Intel smoking if true. No word on motherboard prices and if the mid-range socket will allow overclocking.

They really have the chance to knock Amd across the floor and it looks like they are pulling an apple instead

It's dropping because of a few things... when people started to realize that the 12nm was actually 14nm with more transistors... also the with Tesla is to develop a chip that they will own not a chip that AMD will get to sell to them... plus then the announcement from intel of 8th gen with 25% improvement on gaming is what is really driving it down at the mo...

Best thing to do is by the an then sell before everyone realizes the truth... when it bottoms out this time I will buy back in an wait for news of Epyc...

This is basically tit for tat.. it all started with the leak from Intel on bench's of their 18core.. then hit back with the news of 12nm an Tesla.. then Intel returned fire again with the 8th story....

When news of Epyc hits new contract or whatever it's gonna shoot up again..So I wouldn't worry It's actually a great way to make money just watch the news closely an trade the volatility.

 

[juanrga]

AMD Zen 2 Architecture: Socket AM4, 2019, Code-named "Matisse"
by Raevenlord Tuesday, September 26th 2017 05:00

<snip>

Whereas Zen2 in 2019 and Pinnacle Ridge still using Zen is just as expected, I didn't see Picasso coming. AMD will be still using Zen for the APUs in 2019!!!

 

[goldstone77]

AMD Zen 2 Architecture: Socket AM4, 2019, Code-named "Matisse"
by Raevenlord Tuesday, September 26th 2017 05:00

<snip>

Whereas Zen2 in 2019 and Pinnacle Ridge still using Zen is just as expected, I didn't see Picasso coming. AMD will be still using Zen for the APUs in 2019!!!

This is not an aggressive enough road map for AMD. They really needed to push into the laptop and tablet market harder. They can still make up for it in pricing to an extent.

 

[jdwii]

AMD Zen 2 Architecture: Socket AM4, 2019, Code-named "Matisse"
by Raevenlord Tuesday, September 26th 2017 05:00

<snip>

Whereas Zen2 in 2019 and Pinnacle Ridge still using Zen is just as expected, I didn't see Picasso coming. AMD will be still using Zen for the APUs in 2019!!!

This is not an aggressive enough road map for AMD. They really needed to push into the laptop and tablet market harder. They can still make up for it in pricing to an extent.

Tablet market is basically dead with most just having smartphones and Arm being very well good enough for most tablets for kids or for just reading on the web.

Even Intel pulled out of that market. Amd instead should have tried to get Zen 2 out faster with coffee-lake coming out soon and icelake following in late 2018 or early 2019. Guess the good news for Amd is they don't include a igpu saving them money on these ryzen parts compared to intel where 30% or more of the chip is a igpu. Plus being a module like design that also saves Amd money.

 

[juanrga]

This is not an aggressive enough road map for AMD. They really needed to push into the laptop and tablet market harder. They can still make up for it in pricing to an extent.

AMD put themselves out the tablet/phone market. Check Lisa Su FAD 2015 talk. Slide 12 of "Corporate Strategy and Long-term Plan", more concretely check the section "WHERE WE WILL NOT INVEST".

 

[goldstone77]

I see a lot of those flip top laptop/tablets all in one more. Apple, Samsung, and Amazon are strong in the tablet market. Amazon tablets are cheap and really good for the price, and you can add the google store really easy. The older Amazon 3rd gen 7" HDX models are still really good and can be bought for under $50 on ebay! Apple and Samsung are the two main cell phone companies, and technology has been heading into this direction. They are talking the place of PC's to an extent, and I think will eventually consume most desktops in favor of wearable VR/AR glasses.

 

[adamsleath]

i'd be pleased to see a slight clock increase in the pinnacle ridge 'zen refresh'. ryzen cpus seem to scale very well in performance with clock speed.

 

[goldstone77]

i'd be pleased to see a slight clock increase in the pinnacle ridge 'zen refresh'. ryzen cpus seem to scale very well in performance with clock speed.

The problem with current 14nm Zen was build on Samsung 14nmLPP for 3GHz operation, and is being pushed to it's architectural limitations 3.8,3.9,4.0, and 4.1GHz depending the the CPU this varies greatly. Once a particular CPU hit above normal operation frequency threshold the voltage required to increase just 100-300MHz spikes! If kept within normal operation it's very efficient, and runs cool. I'm interested to see what changes they have made in the new 12nm.