Anybody watch 60 Minutes tonight?

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"seems to me" <asdlf@alkjfd.com> wrote:

> You're guessing, and you're wrong. Read some of the literature
> that is based on data. John Lott's books are good examples in
> particular.

Sorry, but no, Lott's books are not particularly good examples.

The recently released NAS Firearms and Violence study shows just how poor of an idea it is
to use Lott's data. It did an extensive evaluation of John Lott's work and found that it doesn't
hold up.

On page 304 of the NAS Firearms and Violence study, Joel Horowitz writes, "In Lott and
Mustard (1997) and Lott (2000), the instruments include levels and changes in levels of crime
rates and are, by definition, correlated with the dependent variables of the models. Thus, they
are unlikely to be valid instruments. It is likely, therefore, that Lott's and Mustard's 2SLS
estimates are artifacts of the use of invalid instruments and other forms of specification errors."

Then there's Donald Kennedy, the Editor of Science - "What he did was to construct a false
identity for a scholar, whom he then deployed in repeated support of his positions and in
repeated attacks on his opponents. In most circles, this goes down as fraud."

About John Lott's reputation, see

http://tinyurl.com/zcsk
http://tinyurl.com/xlnr
http://tinyurl.com/zcrr
http://tinyurl.com/zcsh
 
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"riku" <riku@invalid.none.com> wrote in message
news:g0g13151sjhghcsre5ik79923dvc9vm5go@4ax.com...

> >Your choice, I can respect it even if I don't agree with it. You will be
at
> >a disadvantage if attacked, but that is your choice and your problem.
> >
> >The bigger problem is that most people on the anti-gun side seek to take
the
> >choice away.
> I live in a country where the "choice" of any lunatic owning a gun is
> taken away. And I am happy about that, because the chances of getting
> shot on the street here are virtually nil.

Ahh yes, yet another Euro seeking to group ALL gun owners into a "lunatic
owning a gun". The same old tired story.
 
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Thusly "Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> Spake Unto All:

>Euro would be caught dead saying the words "Bush was right". Not that Europe
>has any credibility on this issue whatsoever.

Wrt Iraq, Bush was right about *what*, exactly?

Just curious.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Here's an example of what we Americans are dealing with:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=7880955

There are millions identical to this 'man'. They walk the streets, they
fill our prisons, and they multiply like rabbits. They are the primary
reason we must be armed.

Non-Americans who live in regions impacted by non-White immigration
have a better understanding than prissy, sheltered idiots. Britain, for
instance, is now a very criminal society thanks to treasonous
politicians. (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21902)
 
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>> I can still dream, and I do think that a) people who design guns are
>> evil

> I don't think I would classify gun designers as "evil", hunting is a
> legitimate reason for guns.

Yes, but I wouldn't classify guns like UZI or AK47 as hunting weapons...
except for manhunting.

Tommy
 
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"Tommy Stenberg" <nobodysfool@dont.exist> wrote in message
news:qRiYd.104114$Vf.3990612@news000.worldonline.dk...
> >> I can still dream, and I do think that a) people who design guns are
> >> evil
> > I don't think I would classify gun designers as "evil", hunting is a
> > legitimate reason for guns.
> Yes, but I wouldn't classify guns like UZI or AK47 as hunting weapons...
> except for manhunting.

And you would be wrong. While the 9mm that the Uzi uses isn't used for
hunting, the 7.62x39mm rifle round the AK-47 uses is used quite often for
hunting. It's usually used more in the SKS than the AK but it can (and is)
used by both.
 
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"Sean Scott" <Its@secret> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>
>"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
>news😱9b1315jh0af5jaoq4l02360uv6qdkh1ld@4ax.com...
>> riku <riku@invalid.none.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
>> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:32:54 -0500, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>It's a bit hard for someone to be "accidently shot" by a properly stored
>>>>and secured firearm.
>>>
>>>What is a "properly stored and secured" firearm? One that is in a
>>>safe, locked up so that the kids can't get to it? And you can't either
>>>in the case you really needed it fast to protect yourself in your own
>>>house?
>>
>> Trigger lock, and/or in a safe or gun safe.
>>
>> Sorry I don't buy the "I'll need access to it in seconds to protect
>> myself from home invader argument."
>>
>> If it's that big a deal get a friggen alarm system so you've got lots of
>> warning.
>>
>> Mr burgler isn't too likely to keep on wandering round the house with
>> flashing lights and sirens going off, and you'll have plenty of time to
>> get your gun from the safe.
>>
>>>That's the dilemma I see with firearms at home. If you keep it
>>>available so that you it is actually useful in a life-threatening
>>>situation, then your kids could easily get it too.
>>
>
>And if some of us people that own guns live by ourselves and have no kids?

Why reply to me when you seem to be replying to something Riku wrote?

But i'll answer anyway.
You still have a responsibility to secure and store your firearms
properly.

If there's so much danger that someone might break in while you're home,
there's just as much (or more) that someone will break in while you're
out and your gun is lying around to be stolen.

If you leave a gun lying around and it's stolen, YOU are ultimately
responsible for anyone shot and/or killed with your stolen gun.


It never ceases to amaze (and amuse) me that so many Americans both
claim they need a gun to protect themselves in their own homes AND that
America is the greatest place to live on Earth.


Sorry, but "my home is an armed camp" is something i'd expect in a THIRD
world country.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 
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Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in
news:u7r231h6af995ocdg9k48imh0q0qh37lli@4ax.com:

> Wrt Iraq, Bush was right about *what*, exactly?

That Saddam Hussein was a Very Naughty Man.

That's about it, though.


stePH
--
If it cannot break the egg's shell, a chick will die without being born.
We are the chick. The world is our egg.
If we cannot break the world's shell, we will die without being born.
Smash the world's shell! For the revolution of the world!
 
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> Shawk wrote:
> aether wrote:
> > I suggest you read my post, rather than Heslop's. He's not a
resident
> > of the United States,
>
> This now a US-only group aether? or can anyone join if they agree
with
> your view?

Heslop doesn't live in the U.S., but pretends to be an authority on it
without even understanding the basic facts. The U.S. is considered a
violent society because the U.S. has tens of millions of people of
African descent. This race has proven themselves extremely violent
wherever they reside; in Africa, in the Caribbean, in South America,
Britain, and the U.S.

The crime rate of Americans of European descent is identical to that of
Western Europeans. America doesn't have a gun problem, it has a race
problem.

Now, if you have something pertinent to add, feel free to. Cries of
'heretic' or 'witch' (e.g. 'racist') will be ignored.
 
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Kroagnon wrote:
>
> "Tommy Stenberg" <nobodysfool@dont.exist> wrote in message
> news:qRiYd.104114$Vf.3990612@news000.worldonline.dk...
> > >> I can still dream, and I do think that a) people who design guns are
> > >> evil
> > > I don't think I would classify gun designers as "evil", hunting is a
> > > legitimate reason for guns.
> > Yes, but I wouldn't classify guns like UZI or AK47 as hunting weapons...
> > except for manhunting.
>
> And you would be wrong. While the 9mm that the Uzi uses isn't used for
> hunting, the 7.62x39mm rifle round the AK-47 uses is used quite often for
> hunting. It's usually used more in the SKS than the AK but it can (and is)
> used by both.

wanker
--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
 
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"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
news:6s4431l8slrp8va0t2a3pga39ib1srm3bs@4ax.com...
> "Sean Scott" <Its@secret> looked up from reading the entrails of the
> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>
>>"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
>>news😱9b1315jh0af5jaoq4l02360uv6qdkh1ld@4ax.com...
>>> riku <riku@invalid.none.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
>>> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:32:54 -0500, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It's a bit hard for someone to be "accidently shot" by a properly
>>>>>stored
>>>>>and secured firearm.
>>>>
>>>>What is a "properly stored and secured" firearm? One that is in a
>>>>safe, locked up so that the kids can't get to it? And you can't either
>>>>in the case you really needed it fast to protect yourself in your own
>>>>house?
>>>
>>> Trigger lock, and/or in a safe or gun safe.
>>>
>>> Sorry I don't buy the "I'll need access to it in seconds to protect
>>> myself from home invader argument."
>>>
>>> If it's that big a deal get a friggen alarm system so you've got lots of
>>> warning.
>>>
>>> Mr burgler isn't too likely to keep on wandering round the house with
>>> flashing lights and sirens going off, and you'll have plenty of time to
>>> get your gun from the safe.
>>>
>>>>That's the dilemma I see with firearms at home. If you keep it
>>>>available so that you it is actually useful in a life-threatening
>>>>situation, then your kids could easily get it too.
>>>
>>
>>And if some of us people that own guns live by ourselves and have no kids?
>
> Why reply to me when you seem to be replying to something Riku wrote?
>
> But i'll answer anyway.
> You still have a responsibility to secure and store your firearms
> properly.
>
> If there's so much danger that someone might break in while you're home,
> there's just as much (or more) that someone will break in while you're
> out and your gun is lying around to be stolen.
>
> If you leave a gun lying around and it's stolen, YOU are ultimately
> responsible for anyone shot and/or killed with your stolen gun.
>

The gun would go with me when I leave the house, that is the point of having
a concealed carry permit and concealed weapon.


>
> It never ceases to amaze (and amuse) me that so many Americans both
> claim they need a gun to protect themselves in their own homes AND that
> America is the greatest place to live on Earth.
>
>
> Sorry, but "my home is an armed camp" is something i'd expect in a THIRD
> world country.
>
> Xocyll
> --
> I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
> a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
> Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
> FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 
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"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
news:6s4431l8slrp8va0t2a3pga39ib1srm3bs@4ax.com...
> "Sean Scott" <Its@secret> looked up from reading the entrails of the
> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>
>>"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
>>news😱9b1315jh0af5jaoq4l02360uv6qdkh1ld@4ax.com...
>>> riku <riku@invalid.none.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
>>> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 14:32:54 -0500, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It's a bit hard for someone to be "accidently shot" by a properly
>>>>>stored
>>>>>and secured firearm.
>>>>
>>>>What is a "properly stored and secured" firearm? One that is in a
>>>>safe, locked up so that the kids can't get to it? And you can't either
>>>>in the case you really needed it fast to protect yourself in your own
>>>>house?
>>>
>>> Trigger lock, and/or in a safe or gun safe.
>>>
>>> Sorry I don't buy the "I'll need access to it in seconds to protect
>>> myself from home invader argument."
>>>
>>> If it's that big a deal get a friggen alarm system so you've got lots of
>>> warning.
>>>
>>> Mr burgler isn't too likely to keep on wandering round the house with
>>> flashing lights and sirens going off, and you'll have plenty of time to
>>> get your gun from the safe.
>>>
>>>>That's the dilemma I see with firearms at home. If you keep it
>>>>available so that you it is actually useful in a life-threatening
>>>>situation, then your kids could easily get it too.
>>>
>>
>>And if some of us people that own guns live by ourselves and have no kids?
>
> Why reply to me when you seem to be replying to something Riku wrote?
>
> But i'll answer anyway.
> You still have a responsibility to secure and store your firearms
> properly.
>
> If there's so much danger that someone might break in while you're home,
> there's just as much (or more) that someone will break in while you're
> out and your gun is lying around to be stolen.
>
> If you leave a gun lying around and it's stolen, YOU are ultimately
> responsible for anyone shot and/or killed with your stolen gun.
>
>
> It never ceases to amaze (and amuse) me that so many Americans both
> claim they need a gun to protect themselves in their own homes AND that
> America is the greatest place to live on Earth.
>

I never made claims that the US was the greatest place to live on Earth. I
have actually given serious thought to emigrating to one of the other
English speaking nations out there.


>
> Sorry, but "my home is an armed camp" is something i'd expect in a THIRD
> world country.
>
> Xocyll
> --
> I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
> a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
> Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
> FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 
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the same defence?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4341043.stm

Judge killed in US court shooting

The suspect is said to have grabbed a gun from a sheriff's deputy
A judge and two officials have been killed in a shooting at a court
house in the US city of Atlanta.
A major search is under way for the suspect, named as Brian Nichols,
33. He was appearing in court on rape and kidnapping charges.

Witnesses said the suspect grabbed a gun from a sheriff's deputy,
opened fire and escaped in a car he seized.

The judge and a stenographer died at the scene, while a sheriff's
deputy later died of his wounds.

A second deputy was also injured in the incident, which happened just
after 0900 (1400 GMT), police said. She is expected to survive.

Courthouse sealed off

The judge has been named as Rowland Barnes, 64, one of the most senior
judges in Atlanta.

A string of lawyers and colleagues paid tribute to Mr Barnes, who last
month ordered a woman who killed her five-week-old daughter to have
surgery to prevent her having more children.


Rowland Barnes was one of Georgia's most senior judges
All the judges in Fulton County courthouse were locked in their
chambers after the shooting, the Associated Press news agency reports.

The suspect reportedly tried stealing several cars at gunpoint,
eventually escaping in a green Honda.

One man he approached, Deronta Franklin, told CNN Brian Nichols opened
his car door and pointed a gun in his face.

"He was calm and cool. He said 'Get out of the truck'."

Chuck Cole, a lawyer who heard the shooting from a nearby car park,
told interviewers: "We heard some noise. It sounded like three or four
shots.

"At the time, we thought it was just an engine backfiring."

The building and others nearby were sealed and traffic in the
surrounding area was halted as police launched their search. Schools
in the area were also closed.

Dangerous clients

Across Georgia, electronic messages were being posted on motorway
signs giving details of the vehicle taken by the suspect.

Atlanta lawyer Ken Driggs, who represents clients on death row, told
the BBC News Website: "This is a reminder to those of us who do
criminal law that a percentage of our clients are very dangerous."

Mr Driggs said it was significant that the shooting took place in a
state court house rather than a federal court house, where security
would have been considerably tighter.

He also said that Nichols would be dressed in normal clothes, rather
than a jail uniform, because people on trial were allowed to wear
their own clothes for fear of prejudicing juries.

The shooting comes less than two weeks after the murder of the husband
and mother of a judge in Chicago.



--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
 
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If he gets that same crackpot/joke of a lawyer/defender than he likely
will. Same as the other situation, this guy did not want to do the time
for committing the crime. No "murder simulator" out there is going to
teach or cause that 😉


Paul Heslop wrote:
> the same defence?
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4341043.stm
>
> Judge killed in US court shooting
>
> The suspect is said to have grabbed a gun from a sheriff's deputy
> A judge and two officials have been killed in a shooting at a court
> house in the US city of Atlanta.
> A major search is under way for the suspect, named as Brian Nichols,
> 33. He was appearing in court on rape and kidnapping charges.
>
> Witnesses said the suspect grabbed a gun from a sheriff's deputy,
> opened fire and escaped in a car he seized.
>
> The judge and a stenographer died at the scene, while a sheriff's
> deputy later died of his wounds.
>
> A second deputy was also injured in the incident, which happened just
> after 0900 (1400 GMT), police said. She is expected to survive.
>
> Courthouse sealed off
>
> The judge has been named as Rowland Barnes, 64, one of the most senior
> judges in Atlanta.
>
> A string of lawyers and colleagues paid tribute to Mr Barnes, who last
> month ordered a woman who killed her five-week-old daughter to have
> surgery to prevent her having more children.
>
>
> Rowland Barnes was one of Georgia's most senior judges
> All the judges in Fulton County courthouse were locked in their
> chambers after the shooting, the Associated Press news agency reports.
>
> The suspect reportedly tried stealing several cars at gunpoint,
> eventually escaping in a green Honda.
>
> One man he approached, Deronta Franklin, told CNN Brian Nichols opened
> his car door and pointed a gun in his face.
>
> "He was calm and cool. He said 'Get out of the truck'."
>
> Chuck Cole, a lawyer who heard the shooting from a nearby car park,
> told interviewers: "We heard some noise. It sounded like three or four
> shots.
>
> "At the time, we thought it was just an engine backfiring."
>
> The building and others nearby were sealed and traffic in the
> surrounding area was halted as police launched their search. Schools
> in the area were also closed.
>
> Dangerous clients
>
> Across Georgia, electronic messages were being posted on motorway
> signs giving details of the vehicle taken by the suspect.
>
> Atlanta lawyer Ken Driggs, who represents clients on death row, told
> the BBC News Website: "This is a reminder to those of us who do
> criminal law that a percentage of our clients are very dangerous."
>
> Mr Driggs said it was significant that the shooting took place in a
> state court house rather than a federal court house, where security
> would have been considerably tighter.
>
> He also said that Nichols would be dressed in normal clothes, rather
> than a jail uniform, because people on trial were allowed to wear
> their own clothes for fear of prejudicing juries.
>
> The shooting comes less than two weeks after the murder of the husband
> and mother of a judge in Chicago.
>
>
>
 
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"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:423217A1.344D51A6@blueyonder.co.uk...
the same defence?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4341043.stm

>Judge killed in US court shooting

First, I haven't been keeping up with this thread. I'm interested in this
post, though, because it contradicts your theory of how gun policy should
be. You think that only police should be allowed to have guns, and the
judge was killed by a policeman's gun. All the laws in the world against
private gun ownership wouldn't have made a difference here.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly Paul Heslop <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> Spake Unto All:

>Kroagnon wrote:

>> > Yes, but I wouldn't classify guns like UZI or AK47 as hunting weapons...
>> > except for manhunting.
>>
>> And you would be wrong. While the 9mm that the Uzi uses isn't used for
>> hunting, the 7.62x39mm rifle round the AK-47 uses is used quite often for
>> hunting. It's usually used more in the SKS than the AK but it can (and is)
>> used by both.
>
>wanker

I'm impressed. Kromagnon actually managed to confuse "gun" with
"caliber".
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

aether wrote:
>
> I suggest you read my post, rather than Heslop's. He's not a resident
> of the United States, and is somewhat delusional as to reality.
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action/browse_thread/thread/4445eb64b314b01b/88530fca227ba624?q=vercingetorix#88530fca227ba624

another wanker? I didn't write the bloody article, I posted it exactly
as it's written. Then again, it's written by the BBC, who we know
aren't exactly flavour of the month with the US...

BTW, try http://tinyurl.com/ for your link, helps to get it all on one
line
--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
 
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aether wrote:
>
> I suggest you read my post, rather than Heslop's. He's not a resident
> of the United States, and is somewhat delusional as to reality.
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action/browse_thread/thread/4445eb64b314b01b/88530fca227ba624?q=vercingetorix#88530fca227ba624

oh, now I've read your 'post' I don't think I'll bother.
--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
 
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aether wrote:
> I suggest you read my post, rather than Heslop's. He's not a resident
> of the United States,

This now a US-only group aether? or can anyone join if they agree with
your view?


--
I mean, you've been around a bit, you know, like, you've, uh... You've
'done it'...
What do you mean?
Well, I mean like,... you've SLEPT, with a lady...
Yes...
What's it like?
 
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Shawk wrote:
>
> aether wrote:
> > I suggest you read my post, rather than Heslop's. He's not a resident
> > of the United States,
>
> This now a US-only group aether? or can anyone join if they agree with
> your view?
>
> --
it seems so

--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
 
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massivegrooves wrote:
>
> If he gets that same crackpot/joke of a lawyer/defender than he likely
> will. Same as the other situation, this guy did not want to do the time
> for committing the crime. No "murder simulator" out there is going to
> teach or cause that 😉
>
Agree totally... but maybe we should be pitching san andreas tothe
military by now?


--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

>>>The ready availability in the US of the coward's weapon, the
handgun,
might have just a little more to do with the problem than your
racial prejudices would admit.<<<

Virtually all violent acts committed using a handgun involve black
perpetrators. There's no comparison between the level of responsibility
shown by European-Americans on the one hand, and blacks on the other.
Minus this hostile population, the U.S. would have few deaths involving
handguns. If there's a large black population in an area, that area is
dangerous. Not only in the U.S., but in Britain, the Caribbean, Brazil,
and elsewhere.

Federal statistics, and your common sense, bear witness to the truth of
this post.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

aether wrote:
>
> > Shawk wrote:
> > aether wrote:
> > > I suggest you read my post, rather than Heslop's. He's not a
> resident
> > > of the United States,
> >
> > This now a US-only group aether? or can anyone join if they agree
> with
> > your view?
>
> Heslop doesn't live in the U.S., but pretends to be an authority on it

oh, you mean I have an opinion on humanity? sorry if some of it
happens to live in your country

> without even understanding the basic facts. The U.S. is considered a
> violent society because the U.S. has tens of millions of people of
> African descent. This race has proven themselves extremely violent
> wherever they reside; in Africa, in the Caribbean, in South America,
> Britain, and the U.S.
>
racist wanker


--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

On 11 Mar 2005 19:09:17 -0800, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>> Shawk wrote:
>> aether wrote:
>> > I suggest you read my post, rather than Heslop's. He's not a
>resident
>> > of the United States,
>>
>> This now a US-only group aether? or can anyone join if they agree
>with
>> your view?
>
>Heslop doesn't live in the U.S., but pretends to be an authority on it
>without even understanding the basic facts. The U.S. is considered a
>violent society because the U.S. has tens of millions of people of
>African descent. This race has proven themselves extremely violent
>wherever they reside; in Africa, in the Caribbean, in South America,
>Britain, and the U.S.

Funny thing... I didn't know that Mafia, Cosa Nostra and KKK members
and the supremacist nutters that run around in Montana and Idaho
were/are of African descent. One learns something new every day....
The ready availability in the US of the coward's weapon, the handgun,
might have just a little more to do with the problem than your
racial prejudices would admit.

John Lewis
USA

>
>The crime rate of Americans of European descent is identical to that of
>Western Europeans. America doesn't have a gun problem, it has a race
>problem.
>
>Now, if you have something pertinent to add, feel free to. Cries of
>'heretic' or 'witch' (e.g. 'racist') will be ignored.
>
 
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