Are Intel joking re: i3 pricing?

[ElMoIsEviL]

Nice question. I would only suggest etherial.

but no, all this dualism chatter is not of any use. I speak of experientials of a very personal nature. It is not possible to accurately describe or even easily illustrate. And so the seeming gibberish is a message. Often, incoherent, possibly useless, and other times, direct commune. It is simply personal and relates to nature of what we are. We all have this capability; but few will go there for a million reason, not the least of which is lame modboy meds cheap shot what he knows of this. In speak is silent yet somehow canhear with no sound silence and go with it and that's about the best descript. desCartes wasn't he a mathematician? That's ok too. It's all good but very personal and very seemingly so weird that people think scitzoid and all that useless bs. This simply is not of this world. Perhaps some notion of devotional which really is almost like sexual emotional communion, if you can imagine; but it's beyond description and seemingly delerious; but that does not have to be either. No rules. But no, not the dualism idea; although that's perhaps close; it's really an intellectualization of something else; it's not the thing itself. I am eluding to the thing itself. It's like turn of the farking intellect and let your mind fly away and see what comes. It's like learning how to fly; it takes time - no , do not attempt flight. Anyway, it's an interesting place that's like an infinite resource, after a while; but I found some personal work was needed en route. This appears in art, literature, music, and just out of nowhere. It actually was quite a surprise when it started; but I ended up writing for quite a while; then speaking, following instructions, following guidance. It looks like religion; but that's not it for sure; that's more for people who won't do this. It's apparently impossible to describe. Some say channel; that's not accurate either; although it could be for some. Anyway, I just wanted to mention. My amazing intellect became just intellect; it was devoid of experience, insensitive. There isn't a lot of emotion in intellect.

babbling

anyway that's that. It was part of a process that started years before; reading philosophy, esoteric literature, psych/Perls, Jung, and whatever else /Neitzche /Dostoyevsky /oouspensky /gurdjieff. Course in miracles, urantia, bible, lots of books, unusual books. anyway I thought I should mention to you.

a surprisingly pleasant interaction
thanks.

I see,

What you're asking of me to do is to stop reasoning, rationalizing and doubting information and instead allowing my mind to go with it and see where it takes me.

You see, if I did that, I would cease to be human. The primary thing which separates Humankind from the rest of the animal kingdom is our ability to rationalize and reason thus allowing us to solve problems. Other animals (particularly chimps and apes) have the same skill sets although on a very primitive and limited scale.

If I ceased to think, I would not doubt and not doubting would lead me to believe in, what I can only term as being, very unreasonable and irrational claims.

Most of the claims you have made regarding, what you term as being, "Spintel" are irrational and unreasonable. Perhaps you ought to apply some line of reasoning and formulate some form of rational regarding your viewpoints towards Intel.

There is very little doubt that Intel, much like any other Corporate or Private entity which operates in a Free Market, is probably corrupt. The pursuit of power and vast sums of wealth corrupts... Greed corrupts. One cannot make such claims without proof and proof is displayed in the form of empirical evidence which supports a hypothesis (how the legal system works).

I think that you are operating under the false pretense that AMD is good and that Intel is bad and this viewpoint (which stems from religion and spirituality you know Good/Evil) is a black and white way of filtering information as it comes at you.

I think it's safe to say that there is no such thing as ultimate good and ultimate bad. I don't think either exist as even people who do the most heinous crimes usually think they are righteous in their cause(s). And people who do things which we see as "good" (like the founding fathers of the USA for example) did so by doing some things we see as being very bad "Torture, murder, mass killings, rape etc".

Therefore I conclude by offering you a suggestion... perhaps it be time you viewed things in a multitude of shades... in other words... the shades of gray in between the black and white.

Peace.

 

[yomamafor1]

My personal motto has always been, "there's no black, no white, but a great shades of gray. It all depends on perception, and what angle a person always look from".

Your good can be perceived as bad by someone else, and vice versa.

 

[randomizer]

I think it's safe to say that the majority of humanity is far from rational. Now the Vulcans, they are rational.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

I think it's safe to say that the majority of humanity is far from rational. Now the Vulcans, they are rational.

I would argue that given the right environmental variables the true rational potential of humanity could be tapped. I suppose that, since we operate withing a world which sees Greed as a virtue, the irrational aspects of our beings are exposed.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Says the person who's only arguments consist of "ask around, you're absolutely wrong", and "I've learned to listen to better source".

From the quotation of Francois you posted earlier, only 8% of the PC sold will be used in gaming. And in that, 10% of them will feature a discreet card. So that's a whopping 7.2% of the entire PC market that will be gaming on IGP, with games like Farmville or Facebook games, which the current Intel IGP is perfectly capable of.

Does Intel need to update their IGP? Yes they do. Its called natural progression. Is it urgently needed? No. Will Intel's marketshare crash because their IGP sucks? No. Its been like this for a number of years, and it will continue like this for a number of years.

/go back to ignore mode.

Wrong, and its backtracking on your part. No ones EVER said Intel needs to improve their IGPs ever, as thats not needed for their focus, which is business, so changing your tune here only shows that its all Intel, when they have crap for IGPs, and its pointed out, you defend them saying it isnt needed nor desired, in any way, being a matural scenaio or mot, as that too was never mentioned, and now, since theyve done what I said they were soon going to do, and was hearing these same comments not 1 week ago, you come here and say, yes, its only natural? Of course, now that Intel has this, as I said they would, not even a week ago, its OK for them to spend their monies on this? Its OK business now has to spend for something they dont need as well, right, mow that Intels headed in this direction? Hmmph

As to the dear Drs quote, Id suggest you read the link, as the 8% wasnt about IGPs at all, only discrete and what Intel considers heavy gaming, so again, wrong.

You are so wrong on so many points here, it isnt funny, and no, this time, I spell it out. If 1 day, Intel has crap, and the group think is they dont need anything better, 6 days later it changes? Sorry ,Ill just as soon pull up a few posts from a week ago to show how this all is, and that some comments here concerning group think and Intel fit only too well, and all along, its what Ive wanted, tho this group thought was it wasnt needed and i was crazy

So, next time you say something you dont know alotabout, think please, as I happen to have a few ideas from differing areas, and no, not Intel only, which if thats some people extent on knowledge, will leave them short of the mark, as was LRB as well, as this attempt will until Intel has a better solution for their gfx on chip, which they desperately need, and this too isnt considered with the amount of thought it needs on these forums, and puts these forums behind, which is too bad, since they deserve more respect and thought than what I see.

Ive said Intel deserves my dollar, they make fine products, and all is good until I say they too can fail, and thats when the walls cave in. This is a shallow attitude some have. It may pain you to see me saying what needs be said, and it must make you feel good for 1 mistake I made by repeating it over and ober again, and it may make others decide to deride me etc, but the problem doesnt reside between me and Intel and thats where the real problem lays, as you dont see it, and being treated fairly by me isnt acceptable, as if Intel cant and doesnt deserve any criticism, which to me, only builds things once overcome.

So, in the end, Intel did what I said they would. They did what I said was needed a long time ago, and theyre late, theyre low in perf, but Ill take it, as it is an Improvement, but is really not even catching up to the competition. And yes, we need to hear more about how this isnt needed again, as Im sure Intel is wrong in doing what they did here

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

A discription of dualism isnt like living it, which no one thats described such nonsense has, and looking from the outside doesnt seem to make for the best explanations.

It certainly isnt scientific, tho close. Describing is not being, and falls short of the experience.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

1 simple point to make, and sound advice.
Anu company that currently is underperforming, or simply doesnt have the latest compliancy, will generally downplay its importance, such as Intels IGPs, nVidia and DX10.1 or possibly 11 etc.
The bad part here is, when people abandone other options outside their faavorite brands, and dont embrace the newer better ways.
This is what Im seeing here, and it doesnt fit with sound advice. Theres more factors involved, of that, Im well aware of, but as trends change, to deny them over personal attachments to pieces of sillycon is...silly

 

[roofus]

well i personally do not think the intel IGP solution deserves this much argument. that is like arguing over what kind of animal took a crap in your front yard.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Well, if its a velociraptor, it might just matter heheh

 

[theholylancer]

its simple, they can't offer discounts with chipsets (where if you buy intel cpu and IGP you get discount) due to antitrust, they now do it so that if you buy their cpu, you get a igp, but the cost is added in and if you go with say a ati/nvidia igp then you have to pay double for something similar, to end users this wont matter, but to those in the channel that you can no longer offer incentives, this is a GIANT incentive to stay intel all the way for the cheapest machines, and hell maybe even cut out the PCIE slot and call it a day for desktops,

 

[mindless728]

its simple, they can't offer discounts with chipsets (where if you buy intel cpu and IGP you get discount) due to antitrust, they now do it so that if you buy their cpu, you get a igp, but the cost is added in and if you go with say a ati/nvidia igp then you have to pay double for something similar, to end users this wont matter, but to those in the channel that you can no longer offer incentives, this is a GIANT incentive to stay intel all the way for the cheapest machines, and hell maybe even cut out the PCIE slot and call it a day for desktops,

idk know about double the cost, as you have to have an H55 motherboard (generally more expensive that AMD IGP boards), and the processor is more expensive (same price you can get Athlon II X4), though who knows what prices the OEM's are getting for bundling CPU + Mobo from either company or even what they get from AMD or Intel for bulk buy

 

[theholylancer]

well if you wanted a intel cpu + ati IGP, you are out of luck now, and on the mobile front, this would mean even more trouble.

i don't mean double the cost, but double the component, when there is a intel IGP and a amd IGP, so at best you'll see switchable gfx with intel igp on die and amd discreet for a notebook, or people overpaying for a piece of not used silicon in a desktop with intel.

this is just a way to make sure people use intel from top to bottom, and no one else other than some add in cards.

think about it, I could have chosen a intel GPU with a ATI/nvidia chipset before, and intel only makes some of the money in the chain, now if i wanted a intel CPU it's intel all the way, or else you give them free money for something you don't need.

 

[JDFan]

its simple, they can't offer discounts with chipsets (where if you buy intel cpu and IGP you get discount) due to antitrust, they now do it so that if you buy their cpu, you get a igp, but the cost is added in and if you go with say a ati/nvidia igp then you have to pay double for something similar, to end users this wont matter, but to those in the channel that you can no longer offer incentives, this is a GIANT incentive to stay intel all the way for the cheapest machines, and hell maybe even cut out the PCIE slot and call it a day for desktops,

Yep - which in turn gives prebuilt system makers like DELL another good excuse to make mobo'S without an expansion slot on them so that when you need to upgrade the video on that inexpensive system that you got at such a good price on you instead are stuck purchasing an entire new system which lets them keep selling more systems and making more profits from those that do not understand how to build their own systems !!

 

[mindless728]

well if you wanted a intel cpu + ati IGP, you are out of luck now, and on the mobile front, this would mean even more trouble.

i don't mean double the cost, but double the component, when there is a intel IGP and a amd IGP, so at best you'll see switchable gfx with intel igp on die and amd discreet for a notebook, or people overpaying for a piece of not used silicon in a desktop with intel.

this is just a way to make sure people use intel from top to bottom, and no one else other than some add in cards.

think about it, I could have chosen a intel GPU with a ATI/nvidia chipset before, and intel only makes some of the money in the chain, now if i wanted a intel CPU it's intel all the way, or else you give them free money for something you don't need.

well i wasn't talking about intel cpu + ati IGP, i was talking total platform cost, ie amd cpu + ATI IGP vs intel cpu/IGP + plus there mobo

@JDFan yes it would allow Dell to have a system without a pci-e x16 port, though you could still spend the ~$90 on a H55 mobo to replace it, so you wouldn't need a whole new system, just a new mobo (still sucks horribly), though for people not knowing how to build a system, they probably don't know how to replace a mobo, its not hard, people just don't want to take a chance i guess

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

OK, I see this also, and the problem is, Intels lack of ability. If their IGPs were factors better, like I believe we will see with AMDs fusion scenario, itll have a lessor impact, and is better overall for for us in general.
If fusion comes out with a 4670 ability, then itll be a reasonable option to keep your present system, even without a PCI slot, and, itll raise the minimum for dev in games.

Make no mistake, were heading into a 2 tiered scenario here, where itll be this or discrete, and the waste of those left empty PCI slots wont be there. This added expense will be dumped quickly by the OEMs, the PCI slot, and again, this will leave us even more bare for PC gaming, unless each companies solutions are halfways decent.
I know some dont think this matters, but it truly does

 

[roofus]

heck yes it matters. mainstream capabilities dictate what products are available to the end user. consoles are blamed often for killing pc gaming but inept mainstream solutions are just as guilty.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

This is why Im very wary of praising Intel for doing this, and certainly to excuse this for its higher pricing/costs, especially having IGPs on board in other setups thatre cheaper, that are also more productive.
This is a bad thing, not a good thing Intel is doing, and Im just pointing it out.
Not their implementation mind you, having a IGP on chip is great, but the quality of the IGP is what really matters here, and itll matter even more as we go forwards, and it is that important, as the proposed changes to come willo require better ones in the future, and Intel needs to catch up here, and no, Im not dissing them, we need Intel to do this, they need it as well

 

[roofus]

conceptually, it is a great idea. i think the execution leaves a lot to be desired though. it had potential to shake the earth had it been a departure from their typical IGP solution but it is marginally better and that isn't saying much.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I mentioned earlier, the cpu is helping the gpu in Intels solution, whereas, in the AMD solution, youll see the opposite.
This is done for obvious reasons. Intels gpus (IGPs) are weak, and need the help. Thats not the future here, this isnt the trend were heading into. And is why I say we need it for the gaming market for one, but Intel needs a better one for the future, as we see more gpgpu apps coming to light

 

[mindless728]

conceptually, it is a great idea. i think the execution leaves a lot to be desired though. it had potential to shake the earth had it been a departure from their typical IGP solution but it is marginally better and that isn't saying much.

agreed, and like you said could have stirred up commotion if it had been marginally better than there previous IGP's

though as a side note i would love to know what AMD plans on getting performance wise from the Fusion, are we talking HD4200 levels, maybe HD5200, or even the low end discrete card performance

keep in mind, i wasn't surprised by intel's new IGP in these cpus, i hoped for better though

 

[roofus]

yes it is odd they are running in reverse when compared to the current trend. that indicates to me they do not have a product to respond with at this time.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Haswell will have full implementation for its full usage. Thing is, having no other recourse because of this, this will end up having a negative impact on PC gaming, as all the people that purchasethese without PCI connectivity in the say, HP rigs, theyll be stuck like the few we see in the gpu section that comes in and wants to upgrade their gfx on their mobile lappys.
Forcing this scenario just cause its not needed for business doesnt make for a good argument, while also trying to make Intel look good at the same time. I said a long time ago, they just dont get it, and it still applies, especially as we start to see this happening now

 

[C00lIT]

i don't care what you say about me - i expect insults from some of the slaves here.

i am not a dronezone member = and your bias is well illustrated also - so I assume you are part of the spintel horde? that thinks antitrust is just o so great, and makes a respectable business model?

I just can't hold it anymore... :lol: :lol: LOL....

My work day is fantastic today thanks to you... I feel bad reading all this without having to pay someone for quality entertainment.

Here are my points.

I3 is a good dualcore but not worth the money because the Athlon X4 630 @ 110$ (I get it for 107 Canadian with my supplier) matched with an M4A785 something mobo will kill it in every possible aspect for quite a bit less.

The Radeon4200 impressed me a lot... I tested bioshock on it and it runs fairly well...


Sigh... you are insane and irritating...
Some of your posts aren't wrong but you express yourself like a maniac.
I can picture you with a turban and a c4belt running towards a bus stop advertinsing Intel screaming ALALALALALA Spintel Infidels must DIEEE!!!1 (I wish I knew how to animate cartoons)

here is some advice to be taken seriously.

ITS F***ING INTEL Reading SPINTEL every 3 seconds makes me want to hurt you.
Making a name like spintel is ok... if you use it once or twice... not a billion times.


Contrary to what I wrote above, when writing, be calm, do not write with emotions... (I must admit I couldn't hold it after reading so many of your posts

 

[mindless728]

@c00lit don't antagonize him, he seems gone for the moment and we would love to keep it that way, also impressed with the HD3300 onboard my 790GX mobo, though i actually have a 4870 making it a moot point

JDJ, know any good home theatre benchmark reviews with the i3 in there, just want to know if they improved that at least

 

[theholylancer]

I'm thinking that since intel jumped the gun and put out these parts that compete with current gen amt/nvidia IGP (if anand/thg is to be believed) then amd have to up the game with a low end maybe 4350 or hell 45xx level performance in a IGP and just knock intel out of the water again lol

or else amd is in a serious position to loose some of it's chipset deal (esp on laptops)