[SOLVED] Best way to connect AIO/Fans ?

[MicroRuben]

Hey guys!
So I bought an Ekwb Elite 360 and i'm planning to connect all the fans to the included hub. I'm not gonna put the 6 fans in the front, i'm going to substitute the ones i have now, 3front 2top 1 rear.
The main question which i'm reading a lot about is...
Which is the best way to connect all of this?
I own a MSI Tomahawk Wifi so I have a PUMP header, CPUu header and about 4 SYS headers.

1 - AIO Pump into the PUMP_Fan and the hub with all the fans to the CPU_Fan;
2 - AIO Pump into the CPU_Fan and the hub with all the fans to the SYS_Fan;
3 - AIO Pump into the PUMP_Fan, the front fans into the CPU_Fan and the top/rear to the SYS_Fan;
Which of these should be the best way of doing this? It may not even be any of this and i'm missing something, I just want to be sure, thank you!

 

[Ralston18]

Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information.

This:

"Which is the best way to connect all of this? "

What does the installation documentation say? Not only for the Elite 360 but for other components as well.

The question is certainly valid and appropriate. However, the entire build must be kept in mind.

 

[MicroRuben]

Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information.

This:

"Which is the best way to connect all of this? "

What does the installation documentation say? Not only for the Elite 360 but for other components as well.

The question is certainly valid and appropriate. However, the entire build must be kept in mind.

My pc is fully built I am just upgrading the AIO and wanted to know the best way of making things as best performance wise as I could.

 

[Ralston18]

Specs are still necessary: not at all uncommon that the PSU may not be up to the task. Likewise perhaps for other components.

The build will only perform as well as the lowest performing component.

= = = =

Are all three of your connection options supported by the documentation?

For the most part "best" is understood.

Yet how do you quantify your "best" requirements in terms of performance, temperatures, power usage, or some other measurable factor?

And it may prove out, in reality, that any differences between connection options actually result in no game play differences.

There are always trade-offs involved. As well as risks.

 

[MicroRuben]

Specs are still necessary: not at all uncommon that the PSU may not be up to the task. Likewise perhaps for other components.

The build will only perform as well as the lowest performing component.

= = = =

Are all three of your connection options supported by the documentation?

For the most part "best" is understood.

Yet how do you quantify your "best" requirements in terms of performance, temperatures, power usage, or some other measurable factor?

And it may prove out, in reality, that any differences between connection options actually result in no game play differences.

There are always trade-offs involved. As well as risks.

So full specs
MSI MAG x570 Tomahawk Wifi
AMD 5900x
EKWB Elite 360
MSI 3070 Gaming x Trio
G.Skill Trident Z Neos 3600mhz cl16
Samsung SSD 500GB
Seagate Barracuda 2TB
Corsair RMx 850W

I guess it's no problemo.
I already tested the first option and everything seems fine, still need to run the system for a while so bubbles and stuff to go out either than that the only thing bothering me is the pump noise which I will probably leave it running at 100% for a while and then decrease it to maybe 75-80% so it's a bit quieter

 

[Paperdoc]

"Best Way" is not one you have listed.

To start, recognize that ARGB fans are really two devices in one unit - a fan with motor for cooling things, and lights in the frame for visual impact. They actually operate completely independent of each other and have separate cables for connection to different points. The Hub supplied combines connection points for both motors and lights of each fan but that does not mean they ALL have to have their cables plugged in there.

Let's look at this from the viewpoint of function - what are each of these supposed to do?
The PUMP is supposed to circulate cooling fluid around a loop from CPU lid to radiator and back. It is intended to run at full speed all the time and is wired like a fan. The FANS on the RAD push air though the rad to remove heat from the fluid inside, and THESE fans should have their speed controlled according to the heat removal needs of the CPU chip as indicated by a temperature sensor inside the CPU chip. The OTHER fans NOT on the rad are to blow air though the case and remove heat from all of the components inside. Their heat removal needs are best indicated by a different temp sensor built into the mobo. The LIGHTS are a separate issue, and most people want all their lighting units to show the SAME display - that is, synchronized - so ALL of the fans' lights should be fed the SAME control signals.

To get that, here's the recommendation.

1. The PUMP motor cable (looks like a fan connector) should go to the mobo PUMP_FAN1 header. In BIOS Setup (see manual p. 64) that header should be configured for power to a PUMP, not a Fan. At the upper left of that screen choose the PWM option, not DC. This will ensure the pump gets full power for full speed at all times AND its speed is monitored for possible pump failure.
2. All three of the RAD FANS should be connected to motor ports of the Hub supplied - preferably ports 1 to 3. You will also connect to this Hub three cables: (a) one to a SATA power output connector from the PSU for power; (b) one to the mobo CPU_FAN header for control of CPU cooling; and (c) one to one of the mobo 3-pin JRAINBOW headers (see p. 42) and NOT the 4-pin JRGB headers to get lighting control signals. With this setup you will have all of your rad fans' speeds controlled by the temperature inside the CPU chip, and the speed of ONE fan (on Hub Port #1) monitored for speed and failure. In BIOS Setup (p. 64) for the CPU_FAN header configure it to use PWM Mode and the Default control settings for now.
3. For the three exhaust fans at top and rear that are primarily for case ventilation, do NOT plug their motor cables into the Hub. Instead plug each into a mobo SYS_FAN header. For each header used this way, in BIOS Setup configure them all the same with PWM Mode and Default settings. That way all of them will be controlled exactly the same based on the mobo temp sensor (not the one inside the CPU).
4. For ALL of the fans' lighting cables, plug them into lighting ports of the Hub so that they all receive the same control signals drawn from the mobo JRAINBOW header. You will use the utility Mystic Light supplied with your MSI mobo to configure the lights.

 

[MicroRuben]

"Best Way" is not one you have listed.

To start, recognize that ARGB fans are really two devices in one unit - a fan with motor for cooling things, and lights in the frame for visual impact. They actually operate completely independent of each other and have separate cables for connection to different points. The Hub supplied combines connection points for both motors and lights of each fan but that does not mean they ALL have to have their cables plugged in there.

Let's look at this from the viewpoint of function - what are each of these supposed to do?
The PUMP is supposed to circulate cooling fluid around a loop from CPU lid to radiator and back. It is intended to run at full speed all the time and is wired like a fan. The FANS on the RAD push air though the rad to remove heat from the fluid inside, and THESE fans should have their speed controlled according to the heat removal needs of the CPU chip as indicated by a temperature sensor inside the CPU chip. The OTHER fans NOT on the rad are to blow air though the case and remove heat from all of the components inside. Their heat removal needs are best indicated by a different temp sensor built into the mobo. The LIGHTS are a separate issue, and most people want all their lighting units to show the SAME display - that is, synchronized - so ALL of the fans' lights should be fed the SAME control signals.

To get that, here's the recommendation.

1. The PUMP motor cable (looks like a fan connector) should go to the mobo PUMP_FAN1 header. In BIOS Setup (see manual p. 64) that header should be configured for power to a PUMP, not a Fan. At the upper left of that screen choose the PWM option, not DC. This will ensure the pump gets full power for full speed at all times AND its speed is monitored for possible pump failure.
2. All three of the RAD FANS should be connected to motor ports of the Hub supplied - preferably ports 1 to 3. You will also connect to this Hub three cables: (a) one to a SATA power output connector from the PSU for power; (b) one to the mobo CPU_FAN header for control of CPU cooling; and (c) one to one of the mobo 3-pin JRAINBOW headers (see p. 42) and NOT the 4-pin JRGB headers to get lighting control signals. With this setup you will have all of your rad fans' speeds controlled by the temperature inside the CPU chip, and the speed of ONE fan (on Hub Port #1) monitored for speed and failure. In BIOS Setup (p. 64) for the CPU_FAN header configure it to use PWM Mode and the Default control settings for now.
3. For the three exhaust fans at top and rear that are primarily for case ventilation, do NOT plug their motor cables into the Hub. Instead plug each into a mobo SYS_FAN header. For each header used this way, in BIOS Setup configure them all the same with PWM Mode and Default settings. That way all of them will be controlled exactly the same based on the mobo temp sensor (not the one inside the CPU).
4. For ALL of the fans' lighting cables, plug them into lighting ports of the Hub so that they all receive the same control signals drawn from the mobo JRAINBOW header. You will use the utility Mystic Light supplied with your MSI mobo to configure the lights.

I highly appreciate and want to thank you for the time you took to write this. I fully understood what you explained. I still need to setup fan speeds and stuff and will follow as you wrote.
So it's like the 3rd option I wrote "AIO Pump into the PUMP_Fan, the front fans into the CPU_Fan and the top/rear to the SYS_Fan;"
Being the front RAD Fans into the HUB connected to the CPU_Fan and the exhaust fans (top/rear) into the SYS_Fan 1, 2 and 3.
Just a genuine question, would it matter to have all of them into the CPU_Fan? It would mean all of them spinning faster if the temps get higher and not only the front RAD ones right?
Another question is, can I have the PUMP running around 75/80%? 100% does a very noticable and annoying noise. It would decrease noise and increase temps a bit but is it a risk for the pump?

 

[Paperdoc]

Whatever you plug into the Hub (which gets its fan speed control signal from the CPU_FAN header) will always be guided by the cooling needs of the CPU chip. The needs of the REST of your system (mostly the mobo components) are not necessarily the same, although they are related because they all work towards the overall workload. That is why there is a separate temp sensor on the mobo to guide the SYS_FAN headers.

Yes, you can have the pump run at less than full speed. The major reason it is designed for full always is that you cannot have TWO control elements (the pump speed and the fan speeds) both trying to control the same thing (the CPU internal temp) because they would conflict with each other and produce instability. So keeping one of these (the pump speed) constant is best. Within that framework, the logical fixed speed is max speed so that even at maximum workload and heat production the circulating liquid can carry the max rate of heat away from the CPU. Then the fan speeds actually determine how fast that heat is removed completely from the system. There are some AIO systems that offer the option for you to reduce the pump speed manually to a lower fixed speed. This is kind of a "ranging" adjustment you make infrequently. You set it so that even at the max workload you typically use, the rad fans are not yet running at their full speed.

Actually making the pump run at less than full speed may need a bit of "tweaking". The most common design (not sure about your system) has the PUMP wired just like an older 3-pin Voltage Control fan. When you plug that fan type into a header using the new 4-pin PWM Mode of signals for control, you do not get speed control - it simply runs full speed all the time. Normally that is what you want in a pump. BUT if you change the configuration of the PUMP_FAN1 header where the pump is plugged in to treat the connected device as a FAN, and not a PUMP, then the header will try to alter the speed. THEN you must also change the header's MODE to DC instead of PWM so that it sends to the pump the correct type of signals to achieve the speed setting you make. And finally, you must set your fixed speed. To do that in your system you need to alter the default "fan curve" graph of speed versus temperature for that header so that it runs at the same speed (whatever your choice) for virtually all temperatures.

By the way, consider this before proceeding. Most pumps run very quietly at full speed. If your is noisy, it MAY be because right now it still has some air bubbles in it and they are in the pump itself, causing what is known as "cavitation" noise. This should go away as the system operates and pushes the air to another location, like the top of the fluid reservoir. To help this along sometimes you need to move the system to different angles to get the air bubbles to move.

 

[MicroRuben]

Whatever you plug into the Hub (which gets its fan speed control signal from the CPU_FAN header) will always be guided by the cooling needs of the CPU chip. The needs of the REST of your system (mostly the mobo components) are not necessarily the same, although they are related because they all work towards the overall workload. That is why there is a separate temp sensor on the mobo to guide the SYS_FAN headers.

Yes, you can have the pump run at less than full speed. The major reason it is designed for full always is that you cannot have TWO control elements (the pump speed and the fan speeds) both trying to control the same thing (the CPU internal temp) because they would conflict with each other and produce instability. So keeping one of these (the pump speed) constant is best. Within that framework, the logical fixed speed is max speed so that even at maximum workload and heat production the circulating liquid can carry the max rate of heat away from the CPU. Then the fan speeds actually determine how fast that heat is removed completely from the system. There are some AIO systems that offer the option for you to reduce the pump speed manually to a lower fixed speed. This is kind of a "ranging" adjustment you make infrequently. You set it so that even at the max workload you typically use, the rad fans are not yet running at their full speed.

Actually making the pump run at less than full speed may need a bit of "tweaking". The most common design (not sure about your system) has the PUMP wired just like an older 3-pin Voltage Control fan. When you plug that fan type into a header using the new 4-pin PWM Mode of signals for control, you do not get speed control - it simply runs full speed all the time. Normally that is what you want in a pump. BUT if you change the configuration of the PUMP_FAN1 header where the pump is plugged in to treat the connected device as a FAN, and not a PUMP, then the header will try to alter the speed. THEN you must also change the header's MODE to DC instead of PWM so that it sends to the pump the correct type of signals to achieve the speed setting you make. And finally, you must set your fixed speed. To do that in your system you need to alter the default "fan curve" graph of speed versus temperature for that header so that it runs at the same speed (whatever your choice) for virtually all temperatures.

By the way, consider this before proceeding. Most pumps run very quietly at full speed. If your is noisy, it MAY be because right now it still has some air bubbles in it and they are in the pump itself, causing what is known as "cavitation" noise. This should go away as the system operates and pushes the air to another location, like the top of the fluid reservoir. To help this along sometimes you need to move the system to different angles to get the air bubbles to move.

I never had so much confidence in someone giving me directions online via a forum. Thank you so much! My pump uses a 4-pin so I guess it saves me the trouble. I will just do what you said and change top/rear fans to SYS_Fan and configure everything so it's set like you said earlier.
About the noise, I guess is just the pump itself working, it makes a noticable whinning . (3:13-3:18)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsHqEbuoh6s
That's why I said if it was a risk lowering the pump speed so that the whinning can be a little bit more quiet. Before I turned the pc on I tilted the pc in a way so that the bubbles would go along the tubes to the top of the radiator so they wouldn't even come in contact with the pump from the start.
Well, I will just leave the PC running for a bit so that any kind of trapped air that may be trapped moves, change the fan connections from the CPU_Fan to the SYS_Fans and configure them like you said.
Thank you so much man, you had the time, patience and knowledge to help me out. Really appreciated!

 

[Paperdoc]

You're welcome, and thanks for Best Solution.