Question can Raid 1 work on both Mac and PC?

purple buzz

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I am planning on getting 2 internal 2.5" HDDs (1TB to 2TB) for backup, and put them into a Raid Enclosure to set them up as RAID 1. planning on getting this one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Bay-USB-RAID-Hard-Drive-Enclosure-2-5inch-USB-3-0-to-SATA-1-2-3-Interface/392281688831?hash=item5b55cf8aff:g:648AAOSwXcJcojAS

I have 2 questions:

  1. if I format them both as ExFat, will they work on Mac and PC? if not, no biggie. I'll just use my Windows 7 or W10 laptop for backup as NTSF format
  2. is it recommended backing them up using ExFat? if not, why?
I will go for whatever is more stable/reliable, as I want as little problems as possible. Plus, I am not even sure how long more I will be using a Mac.

I am just curious because I have never used RAID before, and I am getting extremely frustrated backing up on 2 HDDs manually each time. I waste houuuuuurs of making both disks look exactly the same.
 

USAFRet

Titan
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  1. RAID 1 is not a 'backup'.
  2. Your backups need not be done manually. There are several tools that do this automated, on a schedule. Free or small $$. Personally, I use Macrium Reflect for this.
  3. Unlikely you'd find some RAID 1 format that will work seamlessly between Mac and Windows.
 

popatim

Titan
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Keep in mind that if this Enclosure fails and takes out the drives, you lose both your backups in one go.
Same for if your pc gets an encrypting virus and you don't realize it and connect this, now everything is locked.

So if you'e good with those so am I but I don't know if I would trust an unbranded, no warranty or support, enclosure that you won't probably return since you'd have to send it back to Shenzhen, China at your expense.

Also I searched for feedback on this product and found none in the past 12 month.
 

purple buzz

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Keep in mind that if this Enclosure fails and takes out the drives, you lose both your backups in one go.
Same for if your pc gets an encrypting virus and you don't realize it and connect this, now everything is locked.

So if you'e good with those so am I but I don't know if I would trust an unbranded, no warranty or support, enclosure that you won't probably return since you'd have to send it back to Shenzhen, China at your expense.

Also I searched for feedback on this product and found none in the past 12 month.
so you wouldnt trust that one? I mean, there is another one that has a brand, but it's still from China... probably the original

https://www.newegg.com/p/2S7-000C-0SY01?Description=Raid Enclosure 2 -bay&cm_re=Raid_Enclosure_2_-bay-_-9SIAHBU9EC3318-_-Product

and another brand but again, ships from China...

https://www.newegg.com/p/0VN-006R-00014?Description=raid enclosure&cm_re=raid_enclosure-_-9SIA2RP3X81128-_-Product

i cannot find anything else other than this one from US

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CineRAID-CR-H212-USB-3-0-Bus-Powered-Dual-Drive-RAID-JBOD-Portable-Enclosure-NEW/163626313529?epid=1001862926&hash=item2618e36739:g:dtMAAOSwjNdcBR4R:sc:USPSFirstClass!94080!US!-1

but looks cheap, and i think it's made of plastic... so i dunno.. id didnt know making RAID was this complicated, at least with external laptop HDDs. i no longer own a desktop so... i guess i'm outta luck... or ill have to take a chance and/or do some research on each one of those to find ratings with the least 1 stars...
 

purple buzz

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  1. RAID 1 is not a 'backup'.
  2. Your backups need not be done manually. There are several tools that do this automated, on a schedule. Free or small $$. Personally, I use Macrium Reflect for this.
  3. Unlikely you'd find some RAID 1 format that will work seamlessly between Mac and Windows.
can you explain what Macrium Reflect does? I literally just need to backup on 2 HDDs at once. so if I decide to go back into a Photoshop file in one of my folder and edit it > Save > it will save on 2 HDDs. same if i wanna delete a file somewhere. this is why i need RAID 1.

i am sick and tired of wasting so much time on manually backing up each time i save a file on one HDD. can you imagine my headache? i make 20 changes in 20 dirs, i gotta go back in my 2nd HDD and make those changes there as well. i dread each time i gotta backup, and postpone it for months and even longer!
 

USAFRet

Titan
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Macrium will create a Full drive Image, off to some other drive.
Then, daily Incremental or Differential images. Again, off to some other drive.
Repeat weekly or monthly, however you choose to do it.

All unattended, on whatever schedule you set.
I have mine set to do its backups nightly, between 1AM and 4AM.

It can write these Images out to whichever and however many drives you choose.

Each system gets its own top level folder. Then, each drive in the system gets its own subfolder.
This target drive can be anywhere. A USB external, or like mine...a NAS box on the same LAN.

Recovery for secondary drives is easy. Run the Macrium client, select which Image you want to recover, and tell it what drive to apply it to.
I recently had to do this with a dead 1TB SSD. 100% of the data (605GB) recovered exactly as it was at 4AM that morning when the nightly Incremental ran.

For a dead )or otherwise affected) OS drive, you use a Macrium Rescue USB. Boot from that, and again tell it which Image to recover, and what drive to aply it to.

A RAID 1 only helps in the case of a physically dead drive. It does nothing for all the other forms of data loss. Ransomware, accidental deletion, corruption, other viruses...
 
I am just curious because I have never used RAID before
That much is obvious.

As mentioned RAID IS NOT BACKUP. RAID is to guard against sudden HD failures and high availability. So if HD1 fails suddenly, HD2 still function immediately with potential zero downtime. High Availability=that's a technical term for you can't afford to be down EVER, your time is money. Are you running a business with time critical apps?

RAID is not backup because what happens when you are hit with a virus. RAID doesn't know anything, all it knows is, data on HD1 replicate to HD2, that's all it knows and does. So bad stuff on HD1, immediately get replicated on Hd2, u got backup of bad stuff that's it.

am getting extremely frustrated backing up on 2 HDDs manually each time. I waste houuuuuurs of making both disks look exactly the same.
As already mentioned, this doesn't have to be manual, as long as u keep the machine on, and even sleep, the backup app can "wake up" in the middle of the night to do your bidding.
 

purple buzz

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Macrium will create a Full drive Image, off to some other drive.
Then, daily Incremental or Differential images. Again, off to some other drive.
Repeat weekly or monthly, however you choose to do it.

All unattended, on whatever schedule you set.
I have mine set to do its backups nightly, between 1AM and 4AM.

It can write these Images out to whichever and however many drives you choose.

Each system gets its own top level folder. Then, each drive in the system gets its own subfolder.
This target drive can be anywhere. A USB external, or like mine...a NAS box on the same LAN.

Recovery for secondary drives is easy. Run the Macrium client, select which Image you want to recover, and tell it what drive to apply it to.
I recently had to do this with a dead 1TB SSD. 100% of the data (605GB) recovered exactly as it was at 4AM that morning when the nightly Incremental ran.

For a dead )or otherwise affected) OS drive, you use a Macrium Rescue USB. Boot from that, and again tell it which Image to recover, and what drive to aply it to.

A RAID 1 only helps in the case of a physically dead drive. It does nothing for all the other forms of data loss. Ransomware, accidental deletion, corruption, other viruses...
thanks for info, but i dont really need all that. just 2 HDDs backed up same files within the exact same file structure. which is why I mainly need RAID 1 Enclosure.
 

purple buzz

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That much is obvious.

As mentioned RAID IS NOT BACKUP. RAID is to guard against sudden HD failures and high availability. So if HD1 fails suddenly, HD2 still function immediately with potential zero downtime. High Availability=that's a technical term for you can't afford to be down EVER, your time is money. Are you running a business with time critical apps?

RAID is not backup because what happens when you are hit with a virus. RAID doesn't know anything, all it knows is, data on HD1 replicate to HD2, that's all it knows and does. So bad stuff on HD1, immediately get replicated on Hd2, u got backup of bad stuff that's it.


As already mentioned, this doesn't have to be manual, as long as u keep the machine on, and even sleep, the backup app can "wake up" in the middle of the night to do your bidding.
i understand, but how can u not call RAID 1 backup? it is dual backup, incase of 1 HDD failure, you got all your files on the 2nd. that's all i really need. all that other stuff you mention is overkill. i dont use my external 2.5" HDD for anything else other than to backup files. why should i care about viruses? the HDD is not connected to my main PC or any other system 95% of the time or more... and i think getting cloud for large files (anything over 500GB is retarded. i just want it locally.
 

USAFRet

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How are you getting this data into this enclosure?

Assuming this is some sort of actual backup (a second/third/fourth copy of data that actually lives elsewhere), than a RAID 1 inside that enclosure might be OK.
But if that enclosure is your primary data location, then the RAID 1 is not a backup, and not really a safe way forward.
 

purple buzz

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As already mentioned, this doesn't have to be manual, as long as u keep the machine on, and even sleep, the backup app can "wake up" in the middle of the night to do your bidding.
i am not running a business. this is for my own files, apps, games, photos, videos, etc.. i do photography so my HDD gets filled on the regular when i shoot.

and which backup App are you talking about here? see, the thing is. i am running a laptop, and my external HDD is NOT connected to it most times. so what will App do? ask me to hook up the backup HDD every day? no ty. i'd rather back it up on my own whenever i need it. which should be pretty easy with RAID 1.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
i am not running a business. this is for my own files, apps, games, photos, videos, etc.. i do photography so my HDD gets filled on the regular when i shoot.

and which backup App are you talking about here? see, the thing is. i am running a laptop, and my external HDD is NOT connected to it most times. so what will App do? ask me to hook up the backup HDD every day? no ty. i'd rather back it up on my own whenever i need it. which should be pretty easy with RAID 1.
Backing up to a RAID 1 with 2 drives is no different than backing up to a single physical drive.
The user and the OS sees a single volume.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
i'm confused. so besides buying the Raid Enclosure, 2 internal HDDs, I also have to buy a good RAID software??
The RAID enclosure should do that.
If it works and is non-crappy, it should notify you of a failing or dead drive, and let you act accordingly.

But as with any RAID 1, you the user, and the OS, simply sees a single volume and set of files.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
that's exactly what i need-to only see 1 file, but have it backed up in 2 places. it will make my life so much easier, it's not even funny.
That's the thing...a RAID 1 is not "in two places".
There is little difference between 'backing up' to a single drive in that enclosure vs two drives in a RAID 1.

An accidental deletion or ransomware screws the data on both physical drives at the same moment.


But, as long as this 'backup' is an actual backup (second copy of data that also lives elsewhere)... if this is what you think you need...go for it.
 

purple buzz

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That's the thing...a RAID 1 is not "in two places".
There is little difference between 'backing up' to a single drive in that enclosure vs two drives in a RAID 1.

An accidental deletion or ransomware screws the data on both physical drives at the same moment.


But, as long as this 'backup' is an actual backup (second copy of data that also lives elsewhere)... if this is what you think you need...go for it.
you are really confusing me

https://www.diffen.com/difference/RAID_0_vs_RAID_1

RAID 1 "data is fully stored on each disk."

while accidents happen, why would i want to backup on RAID 1 (2 drives) AND an extra drive somewhere else? This would include 3 drives total. i understand i only see 1 file, but it automatically gets backed up/delete on 2 SATA drives in the RAID Enclosure. why do you keep saying it's the same thing as backing up on 1 HDD? if that 1 HDD dies, where will i recover my files from? if 1 HDD inside the RAID Enclosure dies, i'll still have all my files on the still living HDD left in there. unless, i am not understanding this correctly.

you could say the same about Dropbox app. accidents happen, and if you delete a file in your Dropbox dir, you delete it in the cloud as well. so, back it up on a 3RD drive somewhere.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
So lets assume your data lives on your PC.
You wish to institute a good backup routine.

A backup is a second (or third/fourth) copy.

Your working data still lives on your PC. You just have this second copy on a backup drive.
With me so far?

So, if your PC were to die, or get a virus or whatever...your data is still safe on that backup location.
Right?
You can recover from that backup.

Or, if the backup drive were to die, your data still lives on the actual PC. Just get a new drive for the backup location, and start your backup routine again.

Nothing is lost so far.


So lets say your external enclosure is a 2bay thing, RAID 1.
You dutifully backup to this. (how are you doing this?)
Now lets say this somehow gets infected with ransomware.
It is exactly like if that were a single drive in that enclosure.
The OS and the ransomware sees the single volume and data.

It is not really a 'second copy'.

The RAID 1 only helps in the case of a single physical drive fail in that RAID 1 enclosure.
A drive physically dies, and the data still resides on the other half of the RAID 1.
Data loss would require that all 3 drives die at the same time. Unlikely.
Drive 1 = The PC
Drive 2 = RAID 1_A
Drive 3 = RAID 1_B


A RAID 1 is good for 24/7 uninterrupted ops. Like if you're running a webstore, and sudden downtime = lost sales.
The system can limp along with the degraded array, until you can schedule some downtime to replace the dead drive and let the array rebuild itself.

And any good admin that runs a RAID 1 in such a situation also has a good backup routine. To prevent all those other forms of data loss.
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
Bottom line - Physical drive fails are pretty rare. Which is the only thing a RAID 1 protects against.
And if you can sustain 30 minutes of downtime, the RAID 1 is not really needed, and gives you a false sense of security.
 

purple buzz

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So lets assume your data lives on your PC.
You wish to institute a good backup routine.

A backup is a second (or third/fourth) copy.

Your working data still lives on your PC. You just have this second copy on a backup drive.
With me so far?

So, if your PC were to die, or get a virus or whatever...your data is still safe on that backup location.
Right?
You can recover from that backup.

Or, if the backup drive were to die, your data still lives on the actual PC. Just get a new drive for the backup location, and start your backup routine again.

Nothing is lost so far.


So lets say your external enclosure is a 2bay thing, RAID 1.
You dutifully backup to this. (how are you doing this?)
Now lets say this somehow gets infected with ransomware.
It is exactly like if that were a single drive in that enclosure.
The OS and the ransomware sees the single volume and data.

It is not really a 'second copy'.

The RAID 1 only helps in the case of a single physical drive fail in that RAID 1 enclosure.
A drive physically dies, and the data still resides on the other half of the RAID 1.
Data loss would require that all 3 drives die at the same time. Unlikely.
Drive 1 = The PC
Drive 2 = RAID 1_A
Drive 3 = RAID 1_B


A RAID 1 is good for 24/7 uninterrupted ops. Like if you're running a webstore, and sudden downtime = lost sales.
The system can limp along with the degraded array, until you can schedule some downtime to replace the dead drive and let the array rebuild itself.

And any good admin that runs a RAID 1 in such a situation also has a good backup routine. To prevent all those other forms of data loss.
I fully understand what you are saying, but I don't think you're understanding me correctly.

  1. my main data DOES NOT live on my PC. sure, I got some data in my profile, but the important stuff isn't. reason is, companies are becoming cheap. an average laptop is running a 256GB SSD. no room for 500GB+ backups
  2. my main data lives in 2 places, 1-my HDD (1TB) and 2-my SECOND HDD (1TB). hence, i must back these 2 up manually. let's say i make changes to file1.photoshop file. i must go in 2nd HDD, locate that file, and replace it with the newer saved one. imagine changing 10 or 20 files, or needing to delete them. could u see my chaos each time i do changes or add a backup (not as painful but still could be
  3. my 2 HDDs (backups) are NOT on the network. they are in my room somewhere. they are not connected to my PC 95-98% of the time. I have never gotten a virus on neither of them. so, why should i be concerned with ransomware? I am not running a server and/or business where my files must be online 24/7.
 

purple buzz

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Bottom line - Physical drive fails are pretty rare. Which is the only thing a RAID 1 protects against.
And if you can sustain 30 minutes of downtime, the RAID 1 is not really needed, and gives you a false sense of security.
2 more questions

  1. are there RAID Enclosures that just die and kill both/all HDDs inside of them? if so, i can see your point to my original need in getting RAID 1
  2. if i got a desktop, do i even need a RAID Enclosure?
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
I fully understand what you are saying, but I don't think you're understanding me correctly.

  1. my main data DOES NOT live on my PC. sure, I got some data in my profile, but the important stuff isn't. reason is, companies are becoming cheap. an average laptop is running a 256GB SSD. no room for 500GB+ backups
  2. my main data lives in 2 places, 1-my HDD (1TB) and 2-my SECOND HDD (1TB). hence, i must back these 2 up manually. let's say i make changes to file1.photoshop file. i must go in 2nd HDD, locate that file, and replace it with the newer saved one. imagine changing 10 or 20 files, or needing to delete them. could u see my chaos each time i do changes or add a backup (not as painful but still could be
  3. my 2 HDDs (backups) are NOT on the network. they are in my room somewhere. they are not connected to my PC 95-98% of the time. I have never gotten a virus on neither of them. so, why should i be concerned with ransomware? I am not running a server and/or business where my files must be online 24/7.
#2 - Currently, your data lives in two places, HDD #1 and HDD #2.
HDD #1 is your working drive, and HDD # 2 is the backup of that. Correct?
You wish to make a RAID 1 out of these.
So then your data lives in ONE place.

Good luck.

(there are multiple ways to duplicate (actual backup!) between HDD #1 and HDD #2, that don't involve a RAID 1)
 

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