China Expects to Compete with Intel, in 20 Years

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rantoc

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I wouldn't be surpriced if they pull it off, the chineese are more determined and nowadays also have the resources (US have loaned no less than 1160 billion dollars as of dec 2010, do the math).

Where do you think the majority of your computer toys are made?
 

mailpranshu

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HA Ha....wake up guys. AMD designed its entire Phenom series in Bangalore and fabricated it in Dresden. Intel has massive R&D facilities in India and China because there has been a big brain drain in Europe and US. A large part of tech companies R&D are again run by a lot of Asians. Its common sense. Now the situation for innovation and the hard cash is not as conducive as , say at PARC. But if there is an environment created for it to grow, how long will it take for these guys to actually come up with breakthroughs and innovations? Its not a theory but a very cold hard fact.

Asians are usually brought up in hard conditions. These guys have to make do with whatever they have. They still game on old cards, overclock the crap out of it and repair it if its broken even if its warranty is void because "THEY CANT AFFORD A REPLACEMENT". They have been pushed into a corner for a long time but are waiting to explode out. There is a very very strong desire to achieve and succeed. If the average Minnesota guy does not study he can still get a job.On the other hand there are 10s of thousands of PHD's who dont get proper jobs in Shanghai, Bangalore etc. They innovate to survive.
 
[citation][nom]atminside[/nom]cool, that means intel prices will drop[/citation]
Dude... Not cool..
You need to look at the big picture. Intel sells CPU's all over the world. To keep our money valuable and our country and citizens wealthier than most other countries we need to sell products world wide to bring foriegn money into the US. It's like the car industry. Everyone used to buy only american and the foriegn cars were a joke. Today wealthy people in america seem to want to buy expensive foriegn cars (BMW for example). To top it off the middle class tends to buy cars from asian (Honda, Toyota and Hyundai) Now take a look at the american auto industry. Factories have closed and thousands of people are out of work. It has gone down hill fast and only Ford seems to have a decent future. Detroit has been hit hard an is now an undesireable place to live. The fact is that everyday americans buy more foriegn cars than american which means they are sending their money to a company overseas. Top that off with our richest people giving millions to third world countries and all of us sending our money to other contries cannot be a good thing.
(This isn't a full analsys and I'm not an expert but it's just what I've seen in my lifetime.) I'd rather see AMD better compete with Intel than have a 3rd major player. Yeah, prices could come down but it could also effect our country in a negative way.
 

Cash091

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I love how this turned into what it did... I'm not sure how many of you watch The Science Channel, but all those future prediction shows say China will be one of the main super powers in the next 20-50 years. Think about it, we(USA) already owe China a CRAAAAAAAAAPLOAD of money(I'm not going to pretend to understand) and they do have a crazy amount of resources. We'll just have to wait and see... but don't bash China just because they make cheap stuff! There was a time in the past where Americans thought Japan made cheap stuff!!!
 

daniel123244

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[citation][nom]Stevemeister[/nom]Articles saying such and such will happen in 20 years are guessing. China right now largely makes inferior copies of goods designed elsewhere and as an economy they have yet to learn to distinguish between cheap and good, but make no mistake, while they have not yet "arrived" in terms of being leading innovators the capability is certainly there. I manage a team in China and while wages right now are very low relative to North America/Western Europe, in the built up urban areas like Shanghai skilled labor is only roughly half what it costs in North America BUT, and this is the kicker, wages are increasing at a much faster rate than NAM (average wage increases are ~10% per annum for qualified university engineering graduate in China versus closer to ~3% per annum in NAM so at that rate of differential, in 20 years there will be wage parity and any economic advantage will have been lost (think of Japan 40 years ago). China simply wants to have technological independence but make no mistake the Intels of the world will not be standing still in the meantime.[/citation]

In this graph I made blue is china red is the state of Connecticut
http://www.function-rapher.com/graphs/1589f363ad85dca84b912e9ec689da24.png
So i guess you are right but it will probably take like 20-25.
 

TeraMedia

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During the cold war, the US employed export restrictions to keep the latest CPU technology from reaching the USSR. Why? Because we knew that the technology could be used to speed up the development of war technologies: fighters and bombers, nuclear weapons and ICBMs, submarines, and communications equipment. For decades, the U.S. also instituted a policy of requiring certain military components to be made entirely in the US. This policy was intended to avoid both the capture of designs by foreign adversaries, and the inability to produce a piece of war technology due to the producer being an adversary.

People have grown accustomed to peace. A few local skirmishes and a couple of Iraq events notwithstanding, the world has known greater peace over the last several decades than is typical (my apologies to residents of those skirmish locations for making light of your plight).

That said, China has demonstrated to me one capability that to this very day exceeds the capabilities of most democratic nations. They look ahead 10, 20, even 50 years, and then they plan ahead. In the U.S., we are lucky if we manage to plan ahead 4 years. One example of this is population management: the Chinese realized that population growth would very quickly lead to their downfall. Unlike India, they did something effective about it. While I do not condone some of their methods, I do applaud their willingness to recognize that the unchecked growth of their population would ultimately lead to the demise of the strength of their nation, and an intolerable reduction in the quality of life for its citizens. To this day, the U.S. government is still too shortsighted to address this problem, instead preferring to let "the next guy" deal with it.

China knows that worldwide population demands will soon lead to insurmountable shortages of food, fuel, and water. The U.S. knows this too, but politicians don't get elected by bad news... so the information is not handled responsibly and used to effect the changes that are so essential to stem the resulting hardships.

What happens when several powerful nation-states are all competing for the same limited resources, and the very lives of their constituents are at stake? War.

I suspect that China sees this, and is taking steps to ensure that when it happens they will continue to be able to produce all of their goods - both for peace and for war. And if by some unlikely twist of fate a war doesn't happen, then, well, they will at least own the semiconductor industry. Intel's massive annual R&D budget is a small pittance compared to the annual trade deficit the U.S. has with China. All China has to do is use part of that to hire out knowledgeable CPU architects - or pay them to spy - and they can get up to speed on the latest CPU technologies very quickly. Next, they buy the latest IC manufacturing technology from TSMC or similar. Then they hunker down and start to build a modern fab plant while they develop a core R&D team to advance their CPU and fab technologies over time. They can initially make CPUs and/or GPUs for companies that outsource the fab work (AMD, anyone?). Then, they can move on to fab'ing their own chips when their designs are ready. With enough impetus, they could do all of this in 10 years. It will take them longer than Intel to make their first couple of plants and architectures because they will have to learn those processes along the way. But eventually they will hit a rhythm, and along the way they will inject stolen technologies from the West to keep them as close to leading edge as they can be. So 20 years sounds feasible barring the introduction of a new technology such as nanotube-based circuits.

That's a bit longer than I intended, but I think the world is going to end up as sharecroppers to the Chinese if we don't recognize the trends.
 

newbie_mcnoob

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Good luck China. Intel won't give up its stranglehold on x86 so easily. Unless China will be using a different architecture or developing their own. Maybe it will catch on. We need to get away from x86 anyway.
 

zinabas

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Call my cynical, but I think when China is done pissing off corporations and countries that aren't itself that everyone is going to wait for the next natural disaster and cut China off and starve most of the poorer people in it. Then we'll take back what they stole, install our own spy network and treat them to some corporate espionage. If they were half as smart as you guys give them credit for they would fix most of the stuff that would allow us to do this. The population is underfed, underpaid, massively unhappy, so on and so forth. At the first sign of weakness from the government I think the U.S. will help them 'install' new leadership like the did in the Middle East.

Why though? Because the U.S. government has been on the corporate paycheck for far to long and what the corporations want the corporations get at the expense of any and everyone one the U.S. can brute force to get it done. There isn't any competition here in America for most of the important stuff and its no coincidence that the people who provide competition elsewhere keep getting 'help' from the U.S. where we invade and install the leaders we see fit.

I don't condone either country but the U.S. has been at the game for quite a while longer then China.
 

endrewsmith

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@anonymouslies : I couldn't agree with you more. Chinese gov does nothing to stop its companies not only from blatant copying of foreign inventions but also from counterfeiting. Just a take stroll in ebay mart and you'll see what I mean: LV bags for $20?$500 earphone for $30? And they are all from China. Some Chinese companies don't even care their countries' image. I remember Chinese booths in German Electronic expo got shut down by German police few years back because they didn't pay the respective codec owners for their codecs and were caught using them in their devices. Such a disgrace to country's reputation to say the least. Unless Chinese government proactively fights counterfeiting and copying, I don't see much changes in future in invention respect;they would always be follower.
 
G

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iC design is both an art and a science, it takes years to perfect and require individuals and teams to be able to visualize flow in 4D (time being the 4th), the number of people who can do this and come up with unique and novel approaches to IC design are few and far between (and are paid stupid money by corps like Intel), it's a quality that cant be copied

as for cheap CPU, you lot do know the Atom chip just by itself cost no more then $20, now im pretty sure they can probably build and sell a chip for cheaper but for the same reason i do not buy cheap funny brand batteries, a cheap chip could well be a false economy
 

jdamon113

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China. taking credit from US companies and coping them.
Good to know in 20 years the world will be gone. So will F*(*( commie china.
Made in China Sucks.
If you your Chineese and reading this. Kiss my ass.
 

xantek24

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[citation][nom]silverblue[/nom]As a Brit, I find all these generalisations quite off-putting. Luckily, I don't see you in the same way, aciaman, as I simply refuse to believe the rest of the population in your beautiful country is as narrow-minded as you are (I, personally, have no issues with Japan and wish it well with its recovery following recent, tragic events, and applaud the use of British taxpayers' money to aid with the search and rescue effort). Moreover, you've copied a Wikipedia comment and haphazardly merged it with your own viewpoints yet you are accusing the Chinese of copying and pasting... are you truly being objective here? I couldn't care less that there's no British Empire anymore. We still make cars in the UK, just not anywhere near to the extent that we used to, and in general our manufacturing sector has been declining for a long period of time, but we're not the only country to be experiencing such conditions.Let's see what China comes up with, and let's also bear in mind that Beijing was furious that a Chinese firm was accused of trying to steal secret green technology from French car manufacturer Renault, so perhaps China isn't the evil some of us perceive it to be.[/citation]

As an american, i was born here and raised here and i love my LAND, but the people here are just STUPID LAZY GOVERNMENT FEEDING WHINING LITTLE OBESE BRATS!!! DID I SAY LAZY? AND I HAVE NOT SEEN 1 CHINESE PERSON HERE THAT ARE ON WELFARE! WHITE PEOPLE ARE SUPERIOR!?!? I SEE CHINESE PEOPLE IN MERCEDES WHILE ELSEWHERE I SEE A DOUCHE BAG WHITE BOY IN HIS PAPA'S TRUCK....so americans, stop talking trash without standing in front of a mirror....
 

COLGeek

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If in 20 years, they are competitive with the Intel of today, then they can probably make it. If they mean to be competitive with the Intel of 20 years from now, that will prove to be much more difficult.

Regardless, and in spite of the source of discussion being China, this bodes well for consumers. If another viable source for processors is available to consumers, this will increase competition and drive down prices for consumers (while increasing performance).

Lets face it. We live in a global economy and national boundaries serve as less of an availability/marketplace hurdle vice a political one. Competition is good for all, in the long run.
 

f-14

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i like how people are saying a product not even made yet, but 20 years from now will be crap, while most of their current computer they're using right now was made in china.
what i find funny is it's going to take 20 years for china to reverse engineer the cpu, since they only want to keep this cpu in house in china they could just steal intels and amd's designs instead, china doesn't care that much about patents and copyrights and such, they easily could.
 

MxM

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[citation][nom]doctorpink[/nom]Wow so much jealousy from westerner! LOL... why are you guys so scared?!? Look behind your monitor, desktop, laptop, lcd, led, plasma and tell me where its been made....Chinese copy, dont invent argument.... but what some stupid westerner dont know is that lots OF THEIR OWN INVENTION were made by CHINESE immigrants LOL...[/citation]

But that's the whole point, is not it? It is not that Chinese are stupid (they actually score better in IQ tests) it is their political system and culture that prevents them from being inventive. It is "Chinese Collective" - one men does not matter, the whole is the only thing that matters, and creativity, individualism is suppressed. People have to move out of China to become grate inventors, not the other way around.
 

omnimodis78

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[citation][nom]andy5174[/nom]Republic of China (Taiwan) is NOT the China referred to here. I am sure you know this very well![/citation]
Yup, and I guess I should have elaborated on my comment, but I thought that what I did write would make the point. China (proper) and Taiwan are basically in parallel to one another in terms of R&D - and if we chose here to disregard China's contribution to R&D, then we must also reject Taiwan's - and that should make us scratch our heads in confusion, because we all know what that means. You should know as, as any Chinese person living here will tell you, that the Chinese stuff we get here are often crap, but the stuff the Chinese make for themselves is up there in "Japanese" quality. We want the cheap stuff, so they send us the cheap stuff, that doesn't mean they are only capable to manufacture the cheap stuff. We just get what we ask for.

The other thing that is actually rather comical is the emotional and totally irrational comments by Americans (mostly) - did anyone notice how our American friends are doing the name calling on here "numb-nuts", "idiots", etc... Why do that? It just demonstrates the archtypical characteristic of what the rest of the World perceives as being typical American. Nobody is good enough for them, and yet probably 9 out of 10 of them have never even left their state boundary. I think that China got super lucky and yes, they are copying a lot of the Western technology and even lifestyle (music, art, etc.) but so what? The Americans basically "liberated" German, Russian, Polish, Hungarian, Italian, French, British scientists to develop almost everything that now makes them a super-power. They too, took full advantage of circumstances. That's how the World has always been, and it will always be.
 
[citation][nom]Stevemeister[/nom]China right now largely makes inferior copies of goods designed elsewhere and as an economy they have yet to learn to distinguish between cheap and good, ...[/citation]
Sounds like Japan in the '50's and 60's and South Korea in the '70's.
 

lorllc

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Amazing how ignorant many Americans are. In the 1960's they said Japan would never be able to rebuild and that there junk would always be junk. You can look up the microfilm declassified at any Library stating that America expected Japan to take 50 years to redevelop..

Korea came out of one party political system in the 90's and are now major hi tech producers.

Gunpowder, eyeglasses, the crankshaft (used to mill rice into flour), advanced astronomy, first printing press, etc were all developed in China long before the land mass we know as America was even colonized by Europeans.

Of all the Ancient Civilizations; China is the only one left...4000 plus years of contiguous history as a nation.

In a short few years the Chinese already developed the world’s fastest supercomputer.

Before ignorant comments like, so what they do it by copying etc...so did the Europeans and Americans alike. Remember the West used RACIAL Slave labor to provide free labor to sustain their industrial economies.

Just because you forgot that Europe became illiterate and went into the dark ages does not mean they "INVENTED" all the things you claim. Remember the west FORGOT all the things the ROMANS invented...cause of the DARK AGES. LET ALONE 3500 years of advanced tech in the EAST where people were literate.

At the age of 16 many Chinese already have memorized over 7000 plus Chinese Characters...which means they got a good method of developing memory...which may mean they pick things up quicker? Maybe huh? Many are multilingual, which means they can sell their products to many countries and other markets...wait

wait...maybe being multilingual and having a good memory is a bit like being able to think and speak in two or more languages... Like dual booting? Hyperthreading? lol...ok...enough with the nerd stuff, but you get it right?

There is also an expression to explain many of the ignorant responses here...

You feel you know it all since of the lack of Asian History taught in U.S. schools. Lying by omission is a nice way of manipulation by the way. U.S. Citizens fill in the rest with emotion and ignorance.

It is true most people who are quick to judge with harsh words have never even ventured into anything beyond their comfort zone...its like the expression by the Japanese.

What does the frog in the pond know of the ocean~
 

loomis86

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There are 5 times as many people in china as in america. There are 4 times as many people in india as in america. The region called "south east asia" has twice as many people as there are in america. Combine the three areas and you are talking about 11 times as many people as there are in america. Most of the people in america already have a computer. Most people in india, china, and southeast asia do not already have a computer.
I REALLY DON'T THINK CHINA CARES ONE BIT IF THEY EVER SELL A SINGLE COMPUTER IN AMERICA. EVER.
 

jwl3

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Who are they going to reverse-engineer and steal ideas from at that point? Everyone is freaking out about China. Until they allow free thought and pure capitalism without massive corruption, they will not be developing ideas. They can brute-force copy and steal. But that only gets you up to par with the leader, not exceeding them.
 
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