rwpritchett
Splendid
- Mar 17, 2006
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[citation][nom]sidran32[/nom]The continual return of this tired argument somehow seems to necessitate the posting of this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqeMwcl6p_E[/citation]
i had an lexus gx i broke the side mirror and replace it with the side mirror of the toyata (i think its the land cruiser...the car looks exactly the same on the outside but for the back lights)...but why would you expect any different its the same company...dont you think they would want to use as much as the same parts as possible? Lexus is very reliable because toyotas are known for their reliability....dont beleive american media...y'all attacked toyota because us car manufacturers cant compete with them....how about when ford had those failling tires?
as for apple and pc somethimes its not about price...i can afford a mac but i wont buy one...i would buy one for my mom cuz i feel a closed environement suits her needs.....whats the problem either you want one or not...its even reassuring that we are not all robots and like the same thing...people are different and want different things
i had an lexus gx i broke the side mirror and replace it with the side mirror of the toyata (i think its the land cruiser...the car looks exactly the same on the outside but for the back lights)...but why would you expect any different its the same company...dont you think they would want to use as much as the same parts as possible? Lexus is very reliable because toyotas are known for their reliability....dont beleive american media...y'all attacked toyota because us car manufacturers cant compete with them....how about when ford had those failling tires?
as for apple and pc somethimes its not about price...i can afford a mac but i wont buy one...i would buy one for my mom cuz i feel a closed environement suits her needs.....whats the problem either you want one or not...its even reassuring that we are not all robots and like the same thing...people are different and want different things
These cheesy PC vs Mac comparisons are getting so lame these days. It's like comparing a Mustang GT to a Porsche 911 because the make about the same horsepower. Sorry, but Porsche customers don't even consider the Mustang, because it's about more than just raw hp. Same here, only the price difference is much closer. But I guess some people are dumb enough to believe the marketing hype and choose the Dell. Have fun with your bottom dollar peecee operating system!!
I don't know what offends me more, the shear lack of specs (not even mentioning the i7 CPUs compares are not even the same SERIES, let alone same GHz, no resolution, no GPU data, no memory speed data, and more), or the fact that a dozen people HERE ON TOM'S completely bought this shit dell was slinging.
These systems don't even BEGIN to compare on real specs. Every mac chosen completely trounces the dell chosen almost across the board, and adds numerous additional features dell conveniently leaves out or fails to compare honestly.
They choose the i7 15" to compare against, but the i5 17"?
They choose the mini and the 21.5" but nothing for the 27"?
Shared memory graphics compared to discrete?
Comparing a desktop to an all-in-one?
iLife compared to Windows Live????? (seriously, even the anti-mac guy across the table from me laughed at that)
No mention of every mac including bluetooth, and not available in most dells.
No mention of dual radio Mimo wireless N in all macs and in NO dells.
No comparison for the workstation line?
No local service offered, even though their warranty "sounds" better (apple offers all those features too, they just don;t give them names, and apple also sup[ports the OS and Software with more than a "reinstall from the factory CD and call us if you still have issues" model)
Seriously, this is borderline false advertising. I don't even own a mac (my wife happens to), and I'm seriously defending apple here. A car company making a comparison like this would be sued in seconds. In many countries, this type of comparison is illegal to begin with (for just this type of reason).
Dell nit picked every details they could fudge, left out the rest, and tried to make their systems look better.
These systems don't even BEGIN to compare on real specs. Every mac chosen completely trounces the dell chosen almost across the board, and adds numerous additional features dell conveniently leaves out or fails to compare honestly.
They choose the i7 15" to compare against, but the i5 17"?
They choose the mini and the 21.5" but nothing for the 27"?
Shared memory graphics compared to discrete?
Comparing a desktop to an all-in-one?
iLife compared to Windows Live????? (seriously, even the anti-mac guy across the table from me laughed at that)
No mention of every mac including bluetooth, and not available in most dells.
No mention of dual radio Mimo wireless N in all macs and in NO dells.
No comparison for the workstation line?
No local service offered, even though their warranty "sounds" better (apple offers all those features too, they just don;t give them names, and apple also sup[ports the OS and Software with more than a "reinstall from the factory CD and call us if you still have issues" model)
Seriously, this is borderline false advertising. I don't even own a mac (my wife happens to), and I'm seriously defending apple here. A car company making a comparison like this would be sued in seconds. In many countries, this type of comparison is illegal to begin with (for just this type of reason).
Dell nit picked every details they could fudge, left out the rest, and tried to make their systems look better.
gogogadgetliver
Distinguished
- Apr 7, 2010
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[citation][nom]lock51[/nom]I general it looks biased towards Dell:1. Weight and the size of the notebook, this is where Apple beats Dell. 2. Battery life on Apple is longer, with less weight and size3. Apple has a better touch-pad, then Dell. 4. Microsoft Messenger is available for Mac OS straight from Microsoft.5. Dell comes with 720p screen and not 1080p, like Apple. 1080p can be chosen as an option for 100$ more.Some items, which Dell didn't mention are an option for Blu-Ray, built-in broadband and removable battery. These are strong points of Dell.[/citation]
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Weight and battery aren't really mentioned and with battery life in particular Apple is going to clown them. But... that said facts is facts.. $949 looks a hell of a lot better than $2199.
Not sure what you mean about messenger though. Messenger is a very tiny subset of Windows Live Essentials.
Really though it's the currently available Windows Live Essentials BETA that competes head to head with iLife (and wins!). The current non beta version doesn't have facial recognition, remote control and data sharing with sync etc..
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Weight and battery aren't really mentioned and with battery life in particular Apple is going to clown them. But... that said facts is facts.. $949 looks a hell of a lot better than $2199.
Not sure what you mean about messenger though. Messenger is a very tiny subset of Windows Live Essentials.
Really though it's the currently available Windows Live Essentials BETA that competes head to head with iLife (and wins!). The current non beta version doesn't have facial recognition, remote control and data sharing with sync etc..
well as long as we are comparing apple to cars i would say apple is more like porche...mostly spot on with a couple of misses but always perfecting it year after year with incredible engineering even tough their happered by the engine being in the back (engine in the back=osx) and the pc is like volkswagen...from the cheap beetle to the all around good golfe to the amazing veyron....the mac is good but it will never have the potential a pc can
[citation][nom]Nossy[/nom]Less stickers, and no AOL promotion shortcuts on my desktop.[/citation]
Where did you see one of those recently? 😵 I've set up four new Dell systems over the past three weeks for relatives and never saw even a hint of AOL on the systems.
Where did you see one of those recently? 😵 I've set up four new Dell systems over the past three weeks for relatives and never saw even a hint of AOL on the systems.
[citation][nom]thesupermedium[/nom]A Corvette ZR1 is just as fast as a Ferrari Enzo. You can get the ZR1 for a fourth of the price, but if you can afford the enzo, and will have to spend a lot of time in the interior, then why the hell would you get the ZR1? Macs and PCs are comparable to this. I buy a PC because I can't justify spending over $1000 on a laptop or desktop unless I built it myself. However, I would love to have one, and I am always impressed by their battery life, customer service (I have an iPhone) and their interfaces. It's all just completely relative to the user, but you have to admit Apple puts it in a nicer overall package.[/citation]
Except in this case it's worse, since these systems being compared by dell are not a) in the same class (where Dell does have systems in the right class to compare), b) many, many of the systems specs were completely left out (like processor MODEL, let alone speed of it), c) additional data (like additional options, upgradability, and apple-only features) are left out. Their Apple's to Apples comparison is outright false advertising, and if any car maker tried this they'd be sued in 5 minutes flat.
I'm completely disgusted by Dell at this point, and I don't even own a mac. I'm more discussed by the leagues of Toms readers, who all SHOULD know better, who bout into this and said "way to go dell!" Every one who commented this comparison was reasonable should have their IT credentials revoked and be blacklisted from Tom's. I'm also ashamed tom's ran this without pointing out the GLARING discrepancies and complete BS nature of the comparison.
Except in this case it's worse, since these systems being compared by dell are not a) in the same class (where Dell does have systems in the right class to compare), b) many, many of the systems specs were completely left out (like processor MODEL, let alone speed of it), c) additional data (like additional options, upgradability, and apple-only features) are left out. Their Apple's to Apples comparison is outright false advertising, and if any car maker tried this they'd be sued in 5 minutes flat.
I'm completely disgusted by Dell at this point, and I don't even own a mac. I'm more discussed by the leagues of Toms readers, who all SHOULD know better, who bout into this and said "way to go dell!" Every one who commented this comparison was reasonable should have their IT credentials revoked and be blacklisted from Tom's. I'm also ashamed tom's ran this without pointing out the GLARING discrepancies and complete BS nature of the comparison.
TEAMSWITCHER
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- Aug 7, 2008
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Between this and Microsoft's pathetic PC vs. Mac attempt, something must have happened. My guess is that the back to school numbers are starting to come in and Apple is selling more than Steve Ballmer and Michael Dell would like them too. Welcome to America, boys!
Free Electrolytic capacitive fluid facial with every Dell! Just turn on and place face against motherboard!
I personally find dell's practices just as bad as Apple's. Dell skimps badly on durability and reliability, ships known defective products, take your pick.
Though it seems a Google battle between "Dell Lawsuit" and "Apple Lawsuit" has Apple beating dell 10 to 1!
*chanting* DOJ! DOJ! DOJ!
I personally find dell's practices just as bad as Apple's. Dell skimps badly on durability and reliability, ships known defective products, take your pick.
Though it seems a Google battle between "Dell Lawsuit" and "Apple Lawsuit" has Apple beating dell 10 to 1!
*chanting* DOJ! DOJ! DOJ!
love your arguement about battery life and weight marcus, so with that arguement i pit your macbook up against a nintendo DS, the games for DS are far superior to the games you can play on macbooks btw the ds also has longer battery life and better battery weight. game point, set match, shup with macs already they aren't good for anything but reading email browsing the web, writing word file documents, reading a book on or making pretty pictures and other cheap graphics and their business solutions usefulness are extremely limited, hence why only schools buy most of the macs in the world and businesses buy pcs. money talks and apple is doing the death grip to keep from slipping away.
LOL, that page no longer exists, i wonder why.. One thing they fail to mention is that the dells are made from plastic not aluminum.. makes a big difference in heat dissipation (which prolongs life) and also when you accidentally drop it. My thought is, if you are just worried about the cost then go dell, But if you want a high end product get a mac. like comparing a geo to a BMW or Audi... Also from my experience the expected life of a dell is about 3 years (not taking into account bad caps) For a mac, well its hard to say since none of them have died yet and some of them are 5+ years old. So this is another thing to consider do you want to or plan on replacing your computer every 3 years or so?
Here is the catch, dell does make systems that are comparable to macs in quality but they are the high end systems that in most cases cost MORE than the comparable mac specs..
so final verdict:
If you compare them in price only compared to system specs (with the lowest price from both companies) then dell would win.
But if you compare them in quality for equal specs Apple would win.
Also if you compare in equal price ranges for same specs it would be a tie.
Here is the catch, dell does make systems that are comparable to macs in quality but they are the high end systems that in most cases cost MORE than the comparable mac specs..
so final verdict:
If you compare them in price only compared to system specs (with the lowest price from both companies) then dell would win.
But if you compare them in quality for equal specs Apple would win.
Also if you compare in equal price ranges for same specs it would be a tie.
This is not a good comparison. The Dell has a cheap plastic body, and everyone here is using that as an excuse for why the Mac Book is more expensive. Compare the HP ENVY line, which are similarly well built and you'll start to see the real cost savings of going with a PC. I just speced out an HP ENVY 14.5 vs the Mac Book 15. $1489.99 VS $2399.00 with very similar specs.
Sorry, Apple fans-- I understand that you love your product, but there's really no denying that you're getting ripped off from a hardware standpoint.
Sorry, Apple fans-- I understand that you love your product, but there's really no denying that you're getting ripped off from a hardware standpoint.
[citation][nom]robj_30[/nom]This is not a good comparison. The Dell has a cheap plastic body, and everyone here is using that as an excuse for why the Mac Book is more expensive. Compare the HP ENVY line, which are similarly well built and you'll start to see the real cost savings of going with a PC. I just speced out an HP ENVY 14.5 vs the Mac Book 15. $1489.99 VS $2399.00 with very similar specs.Sorry, Apple fans-- I understand that you love your product, but there's really no denying that you're getting ripped off from a hardware standpoint.[/citation]
HP Envy has problems with overheating and it does not have a full aluminium body.
HP Envy is a cheap copy of a MacBook Pro. It's an Apple wannabe.
tobj_30, I understand that you can not afford a MacBook pro but acting like a spoiled brat and offending anyone that buys a MacBook is plain stupid...
If you want to make yourself feel better about your purchase you should organize a "I hate Apple" club and then have joint sessions, that way everyone in the group will feel better.
HP Envy has problems with overheating and it does not have a full aluminium body.
HP Envy is a cheap copy of a MacBook Pro. It's an Apple wannabe.
tobj_30, I understand that you can not afford a MacBook pro but acting like a spoiled brat and offending anyone that buys a MacBook is plain stupid...
If you want to make yourself feel better about your purchase you should organize a "I hate Apple" club and then have joint sessions, that way everyone in the group will feel better.
f-14 hate to tell you this..ok maybee not, but you are soooo wrong.
there are more games that you can play on a mac than a DS beucase most games are cross platform (guess you havnt heard about steam) plus you can run windows on a mac so the rest of your argument is invalid since you can do the exact same thing on a mac that you can a pc.. but not visa versa (at least not easily without a bunch of cracks etc..) as far as battery life you are also wrong the expected battery life of a DS is 9 hours for a macbook pro it is 10 hours (under ideal conditions for both)
Your just a mac flamer so you dont have any right to even speak on this subject.. I on the other hand am unbiased since i use both mac and pc, both for different reasons.
there are more games that you can play on a mac than a DS beucase most games are cross platform (guess you havnt heard about steam) plus you can run windows on a mac so the rest of your argument is invalid since you can do the exact same thing on a mac that you can a pc.. but not visa versa (at least not easily without a bunch of cracks etc..) as far as battery life you are also wrong the expected battery life of a DS is 9 hours for a macbook pro it is 10 hours (under ideal conditions for both)
Your just a mac flamer so you dont have any right to even speak on this subject.. I on the other hand am unbiased since i use both mac and pc, both for different reasons.
rwpritchett
Splendid
- Mar 17, 2006
- 3,159
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I really do have a Lexus and it's a good SUV. I also have a macbook (actually it's my wife's). My point is, brand snobbery is obnoxious in cars as well as electronics and it's laughable when one thinks or even argues that their re-badged Toyota has better quality because it has a different name.
I couldn't care less about the Dell advert. It's just backlash for the I'm-a-Mac campaign. I's business, that's all.
maestintaolius
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- Jul 16, 2009
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[citation][nom]smeker[/nom]Lexus is the luxury branch of Toyota.. They are more expensive not because of the logo but the built quality.[/citation]
We supply automotive electronics OEMs and I can tell you with 100% certainty Lexus is just a fancy Toyota. Yes, the Lexus (Lexi? Lexuses? Lexusi?) come with more sound proofing and a few things like trim but they still come from the same factories and are mostly produced on the same lines and several of them share the same frames and many of the same electronics. What you'll find is that you can take a Toyota and get all the bells and whistles and it'll be almost the same in cost, trim, features and cost as the base model equivalent Lexus model.
Granted, I'm not saying the 80k fully equipped Lexus is going to compare to the 35k fully equipped Toyota. They won't allow you to put the V8 engine or the 8-speed transmission in the Toyota model (and it's not that they can't, it's just that they won't). But, you're fooling yourself if you're thinking it's not a Toyota. If you compare the 35k Lexus to a 35k Toyota, you'll find that they're largely similar with only slight tweaks here and there and share many of the exact same parts.
DISCLAIMER: I don't drive Jap cars (I won't deny that a Lexus is a nice car), go German or go home.
We supply automotive electronics OEMs and I can tell you with 100% certainty Lexus is just a fancy Toyota. Yes, the Lexus (Lexi? Lexuses? Lexusi?) come with more sound proofing and a few things like trim but they still come from the same factories and are mostly produced on the same lines and several of them share the same frames and many of the same electronics. What you'll find is that you can take a Toyota and get all the bells and whistles and it'll be almost the same in cost, trim, features and cost as the base model equivalent Lexus model.
Granted, I'm not saying the 80k fully equipped Lexus is going to compare to the 35k fully equipped Toyota. They won't allow you to put the V8 engine or the 8-speed transmission in the Toyota model (and it's not that they can't, it's just that they won't). But, you're fooling yourself if you're thinking it's not a Toyota. If you compare the 35k Lexus to a 35k Toyota, you'll find that they're largely similar with only slight tweaks here and there and share many of the exact same parts.
DISCLAIMER: I don't drive Jap cars (I won't deny that a Lexus is a nice car), go German or go home.
Euphoria_MK
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- Mar 4, 2009
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[citation][nom]rwpritchett[/nom]My point is, brand snobbery is obnoxious in cars as well as electronics and it's laughable when one thinks or even argues that their re-badged Toyota has better quality because it has a different name.I couldn't care less about the Dell advert. It's just backlash for the I'm-a-Mac campaign. I's business, that's all.[/citation]
And yet people come over and make stupid posts about how Steve Jobs is raping everyone that buys a Mac. Have you ever considered that people see the value in what they buy. While some people might like purchasing a cheap plastic laptop that has to be recharged every three hours, others will pay extra $1000 but have the luxury of a real mobile device that can work without any recharge for 6 or more hours.
It's the same with the iPad, thats why HP pulled the Slate from the market, because they knew they can not compete, price wise and performance wise. Whats the point of having a Table with a full blown OS when you need to have an extension power cable next you at all time.
And yet people come over and make stupid posts about how Steve Jobs is raping everyone that buys a Mac. Have you ever considered that people see the value in what they buy. While some people might like purchasing a cheap plastic laptop that has to be recharged every three hours, others will pay extra $1000 but have the luxury of a real mobile device that can work without any recharge for 6 or more hours.
It's the same with the iPad, thats why HP pulled the Slate from the market, because they knew they can not compete, price wise and performance wise. Whats the point of having a Table with a full blown OS when you need to have an extension power cable next you at all time.
To those who are attacking this statement (and the user who posted it). I would like to bring to your attention that many of you are committing the classical logical fallacy known as ad hominem.
Essentially, by calling him a hypocrite or arguing that his way of life conflicts with what he is stating, you in no way address the validity of his point directly. Rather you are just attacking his character and drawing the false conclusion that because of his character flaws, that his point is no longer valid.
A simple example is one such as this, "Don't trust Bob when it comes to his policies on poaching, he hunts rare wildlife year round!" The fact that Bob hunts wildlife has absolutely nothing to do with the logical soundness of his policies. The same applies here.
I'm not going to argue one way or the other, but in the future perhaps this will help some of the users make a sound argument
/end philosophy rant
jadedgamerx
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- Nov 12, 2008
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[citation][nom]smeker[/nom]Its interesting there is nothing about built quality.Both Toyota and Lexus cars have wheels, doors, seats, and engine but Lexus is Lexus.Salute![/citation]
....You do know that Lexus is a subsidiary of Toyota right? They share the exact same manufacturing process. Lexus just charges more for a car that comes with some of the options available on Toyota vehicles with slightly different body design and badging.
http://www.truedelta.com/comparisons101/ES-vs-Camry-price-comparison.php
....You do know that Lexus is a subsidiary of Toyota right? They share the exact same manufacturing process. Lexus just charges more for a car that comes with some of the options available on Toyota vehicles with slightly different body design and badging.
http://www.truedelta.com/comparisons101/ES-vs-Camry-price-comparison.php
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