Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (
More info?)
"HarryKrause" <harry.krause@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Od2dnakwrNxPanrfRVn-qA@comcast.com...
> Patrick L. Parks wrote:
>> Leythos wrote:
>>> In article <iNadnWQACfN0SXrfRVn-3g@wideopenwest.com>,
>>> 1H8Comcast@anybodyelse.com says...
>>>
>>>> While I do enjoy building my own machines and do from time to time, I
>>>> completely disagree with the concept that you can buy the same parts
>>>> which "will" perform better and will cost less. By the time you factor
>>>> in all of the things needed (case, power supply, operating system, etc)
>>>> you cannot hardly buy a machine for less cost than a packaged system
>>>> like the Dell.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then you don't know enough about buying parts and don't know where to
>>> get the best deals on quality parts.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The thing I really like about Dell is that my computer is nearly
>>>> silent. For me, this is a big deal. My self built systems have always
>>>> been considerably louder. In terms of name brand parts, my machine has
>>>> them.
>>>
>>>
>>> It has nothing to do with Dell and hardly anything to do with any
>>> vendors systems - the PSU and FANs are controlled by the motherboard and
>>> the PSU sensor. If you want a quite system you just need a system that
>>> changes the speed of the fan based on temp and a fan that has RPM
>>> feedback. Each of the whitebox computers I've ordered/spec'd in the last
>>> two years have quite fan assemblies, it's very easy to spec if you
>>> understand what you are doing. Oh, and not all Dell systems are quite.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Even though it's a Dell, it has Intel processor (3.2ghz), Seagate Hard
>>>> Drive, ATI Radeon X800XT video card, 1GB of RAM (PC4200) and Sound
>>>> Blaster Audigy 2 ZS sound card. I bought it with XP Pro and got a 17"
>>>> flat panel monitor and barely have over $1200 in the machine.
>>>
>>>
>>> I bought a 3.2ghz P4 w/HT, 1GB RAM, 6 channel sound card, 1GB NIC,
>>> Windows XP Professional, Office 2003 Prof, 80GB SATA Drive, DVD+/-RW
>>> drive, keyboard, mouse, and a 256MB PCIx 8x video card (DVI and SVGA
>>> connectors/cables), in an Fancy case, 2 fans (speed controlled) and an
>>> nice Antec 500w PSU), without the monitor, delivered (including
>>> tax/shipping) for $1299. The 19" LCD panel we ordered was a nice unit,
>>> but it ran about $500 since we bought the higher end of the line we
>>> wanted, I could have got a 17" LCD without DVI connector for about $250.
>>>
>>>
>>>> In February of 2005, you could not buy these parts and make it cheaper.
>>>> I'll bet you that my machine is quieter and can outperform anything
>>>> hand built for $1250 or less (office apps, gaming, compiling software,
>>>> and recompiling a linux kernel).
>>>
>>>
>>> I bet you don't know what you are talking about - the above system is
>>> very close to the same price you paid (considering we also bought Office
>>> 2003 Prof) and performs as well if not better.
>>>
>>> Now, if you want to get into reality, it's always been easy to get the
>>> same hardware costs, but most of us buy better quality which costs a
>>> little more. The area that Dell gets most home builders is when it comes
>>> to Warranty and Software - but, if you look hard enough, you can get OEM
>>> software (which is what Dell provides) for the same reasonable price
>>> that Dell sells it to you for).
>>>
>>> Oh, when it comes to higher-end systems, it's a BIG difference in cost.
>>> I can duplicate a Dual or Quad Xeon box with the same spec's, including
>>> the same rack-mount, and be about 1/3 the cost of a Dell - including the
>>> software.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Couple of thoughts (with regards to my not knowing any better)
>>
>> 1. You mention a 6 channel sound card. A lot of motherboards can do 6
>> channel sound. I just checked Newegg and you "can" get a 6 channel PCI
>> sound card for $7.49. I specifically said a genuine Sound Blaster Audigy
>> 2 ZS.
>>
>> 2. I realize that Newegg is not the absolute cheapest company in the
>> world....but they are competitive. A legit copy of Office 2003 Pro for
>> OEM is nearly $300. A legit copy of Windows XP Pro OEM is nearly $150.
>> So, if this was $450 of your $1299, that means the rest of the computer
>> parts only cost you $849. I'm sure you will come back with some
>> ridiculous low price for those two peices of software, but if you
>> certainly buy from a legit outfit, you are gonna pay closer to what I
>> quoted above, unless you buy in MASS quantities, which the average joe
>> just isn't going to do.
>>
>> 3. The cost of hard drives isn't much, but my hard drive was 160GB
>> versus the 80 that you mentioned. Again, not much of a difference here.
>>
>> 4. You mention a 256MB PCIx 8x video card with AGP and DVI. If you are
>> truly a computer guy, or a gamer, you must know "as I do" that a video
>> card is not just a video card. I specifically said an ATI Radeon X800XT
>> 256MB PCIx video card. This card alone is gonna set you back $400 or so.
>> I'll happily challenge you video wish to a generic card with 256MB RAM
>> and absolutely blow your doors off.
>>
>> 5. I did forget that my system came with a 8x DVD reader and a DVD+/-RW
>> supporting dual formats. Again, these things are both very cheap.
>>
>> 6. You mention a PCI Express 8X video card. Could you please explain
>> what you mean by the 8x? For somebody who doesn't know what they are
>> talking about, I do know that the 4x/8x ratings are for AGP video cards,
>> not PCI Express.
>>
>> 7. With regards to fan noise, while the power supply does make a
>> difference to overall fan noise, my Dell is quiet because they don't have
>> to use a fan on the motherboard chipset or the CPU. Dell strictly uses a
>> cooling tower on the P4 @ 3.2. All self built systems usually are bought
>> with clunky loud fans. Granted, better fans are totally available, if
>> you are trying to build a system cheap, you aren't investing $50+ for a
>> CPU cooler.
>>
>> 8. I agree, most people do buy nicer hardware and it does cost more. My
>> point was that the Dell I spec'd out, did have nice hardware. Genuine
>> Sound Blaster Audigy 2, a seagate hard drive, an ATI Radeon X800XT. The
>> system you gave me specs on just said 6 channel sound and a some video
>> card with 256MB of RAM. Like I said, I would be more than happy to
>> benchmark against you. Go out and run something like SiSoft Sandra or
>> 3dmark 2005 and give me your numbers.
>>
>> 9. Any of the Dell desktops that I have used in the last two years are
>> very quiet. I have Optiplex GX150's, Optiplex GX260's, GX270's and
>> GX280's, as well as Dimension 4550's, 4600's and 8400's which are all
>> nearly silent. The cooling fan on my video card is the loudest part of
>> these systems. If you are talking about Dell servers........well then
>> servers should NOT be quiet. They need cooling and quiet performance
>> should not even be a consideration on a server. I'm talking strictly
>> desktops.
>>
>> With regards to high-end equipment;
>>
>> I never made a mention of server equipment....manufacturers versus
>> building your own. I work in a server environment and we have approx
>> 350 rack mount servers. All Compaq/HP and IBM's. With servers, you pay
>> for service. We have 4 hour or faster response time on everything we
>> own. For us, downtime means lost revenue. Handbuilding a server with
>> commodity parts is just not worth the risk to our business. And I can
>> count on 1 hand the number of HP Proliant DL 380 Gen 1, Gen2, Gen3 and
>> Gen 4's that we have had fail in the past 3 years. We might be paying
>> more than we have to, but these things are rock/solid stable.
>>
>>
>>
>> I just like trying to set the record staight for people who read these
>> forums. While I agree you can build a great computer and get exactly
>> what you want for a decent price, it's hard if not nearly impossible to
>> beat the deals that Dell has to offer. It's not fair to slam a Dell
>> simply because it is a Dell.
>
>
> I just got this quote for a system I am considering along with the xps 5:
>
> Monarch Versall Custom Desktop w/DDR2 1 $59.00
> Case: 100621 - No PS - Lian-Li PC-61 Aluminum Case (Black $115.00
>
> Power Supply: 100122 - PS 535W - Enermax EG565P-FMA REV.2.0 ATX $89.00
>
> Motherboard: 110517 - Asus P5WD2 Premium 955x Audio/GB-LAN/IEEE $219.00
>
> Processor: 120316 - Intel P4 650 3.4GHz LGA775 2MB 800 FSB Retail $414.00
>
> Thermal Grease: 800018 - Shin-Etsu G675 Thermal Grease (Cools CPU $14.00
>
> Memory: 140313 - DDR2 (667) 5400 - 1 GB (2 pcs 512) Corsair $163.00
>
> Hard Drive: 150239 - SATA - Western Digital (WD740GD) 74 GB/10 $175.00
>
>
> CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/CD-RW: 160499 - CD-RW - Plextor PX Premium/SW-BL 52X32X52
> $99.00
>
>
> Floppy Drive: 170108 - Mitsumi Floppy 7-in-1 USB Card Reader/Sma $25.00
>
> Video Card: 190671 - ATI (Sapphire) Radeon X850 XT 256MB DDR3/ $390.00
>
> Operating System: 210111 - Microsoft Windows XP Professional w/Service
> Pack 2 Retail
> $150.00
>
> Warranty: 800012 - 1 Year - Parts & Labor - Plus $15.00 $15.00
>
>
> CD-RW Software: 210613 - Ahead Nero 6.3 Suite DVD+-RW Software (OE $6.99
>
> DVD-ROM Software: 210601 - Cyberlink PowerDVD 6.0 (OEM) $6.99
> $6.99
>
>
> Total: $1,940.98
>
> Three day delivery to my zip code is $50.
>
>
>
> Very very competitive with Dell, similarly equipped.
What's not to like? If the vendor will be around should you have problems,
then buy it - unlocked BIOS and all.
Stew