Epic: Piracy Drove Us From PC Focus

[Djhg2000]

[citation][nom]tayb[/nom]What? Are you people delusional? Console piracy isn't anywhere NEARLY as bad as PC piracy. It's not even close. http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_4.htmlFrom the article, Fallout 3 was downloaded 270,000 times during 'x' period of time compared with 20,000 for the Xbox 360. COD4 was downloaded 560,000 times compared to 59,000 for the 360. The idea that 'Xbox 360 has 10x the piracy of pc' is just insane.[/citation]

Actually, if Wikipedia is to be trusted, there are 40,000,000 360's sold worldwide.
And according to internetworldstats.com, there are 1,802,330,457 internet users right now.

This, according to your own statistics, would mean 20,000/40,000,000=0.0005=0.05% of all 360 users pirated Fallout 3 and 60,000/40,000,000=0.0015=0.15% pirated CoD 4 among all 360 users.

Meanwhile, for PC, there would be 270,000/1,802,330,457=0.000149806=0.015% pirated copies of Fallout 3 and 560,000/1,802,330,457=0.000310709=0.031% pirated copies of CoD 4, again distributed among all users.

I know there are a few things left out here, such as statistics of how many are actually playing the games which is hard to get accurately because of the definition of playing (more than a couple of hours total play time for example), but I really don't think piracy is that much of a bigger problem on PC.

 

[Nightsilver]

He added that perhaps Facebook could still save PC gaming, especially with titles like Farmville under its belt...

Really? Has this guy been fired yet?

 

[hemelskonijn]

I don care what platform a game is made for if it is a great game i will buy it however, currently it seems like paying 50 euro for a game is not good enough you have to buy DLC and some times even pay to be able to play online ... none of the things you pay are actually yours and if a publisher decides to drop a game you payed for its just to bad for you.

Also there is this little controversial part of console game pricing where for reasons unknown the PC version of a game is relatively cheap a console game costs a minimum of 50 euro and stays at that price point a long time before they drop and when they drop they rarely go below 20 euro while PC games sell for as little as 5 after a year maybe or maybe two.

So in short i have a PS3 i pay an extra premium for my games (even over the same game for the xbox360) so i can play them on the only platform that has not been hacked to play backups. And if i like them the publishers/developers reward my foolish spending on overpriced games by serving me overpriced DLC.

Come to think of it i can remember a lot of articles about micro transactions and it being the next big thing to ensure both profit and a load of DLC. 15 euro for 5 maps (2 reused) is far from a micro transaction and the same goes for 10 euro for the fallout 3 packs while the game of the year edition costs 30 euro (including the 5 packs). Personally i am sick of them driving up the prices and keeping them up a micro transaction of more then 1 euro is no micro transaction but just another transaction!

 

[sliem]

Would it stop piracy if SOMEONE stop charging $15 for 3 new maps? Lol.
Got cow? oh, we are the cow.

 

[Ghost_702]

[citation][nom]drakaun[/nom]...Typical americans,want something for nothing....its sad.[/citation]

While I don't agree with your American comment, as piracy is running rampant throughout the entire world, I do agree on pirates making terrible excuses. Even comments to this article show why companies aren't producing quality games or have stopped making games all together. People are taking their funds from them. There is not one legitimate reason as to why you should pirate a game. If you cannot afford it, don't buy it. If it sucks, then don't buy it. I love it though when pirates try defending themselves by blaming OTHER pirates. "Well, I'm an idiot obviously, however console owners pirate just as much as pc owners, so it's cool, Ii'm an idiot". It sickens me really. It's HILARIOUS though when pirates complain about the lack of quality in pc games when they are a direct cause as to why those games suck so much, yet they never have the balls to say it. When you are taking money from studios, they don't have enough funds to make a better game. Get over yourselves.

 

[aethm]

I still don't believe that piracy really hurts PC sales. Lack of marketing, inconsistent system requirements, difficulty of use, lack of modern GPU's in OEM's, expense, drm, etc.. are REALLY hurting the PC market. If I have to pick between a version I almost always go with the Xbox version because 1. No DRM, 2. Easy, 3. I don't anyone else messing with my PC.

Also: I'd like to point out that there has been virtually no development in the PC market for years. What's the point of getting the latest and greatest? Do I really need to get 200+ fps? No, I don't.

 

[Guest]

A company isn't formed to spend millions of dollars to entertain you. It is formed to make money by entertaining you. If you are entertained, they are doing their job and have earned the money they have made. If you pirated their product then you have taken the unearned. We have a word for that, theft. It makes no difference if you took a purse from an old lady, broke into a house and took a television, snuck into a movie theatre to watch a movie or pirated a piece of software. You took, without permission, the product of another man's efforts and that makes you a thief. No amount of illogic can save you from that conclusion.

 

[Guest]

Absolutely love how people label it stealing. It's sad to think something some people out there enjoy designing games regardless of the profit it makes. They pour there long,sun-less hours into a computer screen reticulating splines etc and release their developed babies. Let their babies spew across the internet. Plain and simply speaking i would love to see a product i developed be loved by my FANS rather than easily cloned teenagers hopping on "the next best thing" blindly spending their parents money down the tube on a product that was nothing but the equation of "profit margins/market differentation". You want to earn money? Sell government backed mutual bonds. You want to make a game? Make it good enough where you care about your fan following. I will be their to back a developer that focuses on the needs of the gamer and not of the company.

 

[Trueno07]

I see a cycle here, and it just spins faster and faster the more we argue.

1. The Developers say piracy is the reason for lousy sales.
2. Some are upset, and call the people who pirate "Scum" and "Thieves"
3. This upsets the people who do pirate, which pisses them off, leading them to blame the developers for not making good games, then they go back to pirating.

 

[jacney]

The forum has been more interesting than the article. Hopefully it will open the eyes of developers as to what the real issue is. Once PC gaming dies, guess what rockets up the pirating charts...Consoles. I do not pirate and do condemn it. I find PC platforms like Steam the best way to buy my PC games that way I can play them any where without the silly DRM. I have an M11x and cannot play some games without the CD. I feel dirty using daemon tools, but that's what I must do.

Games are developed on PCs, why they can all be ported to the PC is beyond me. I do wish we saw GOW2 but without the silly Microsoft login crap.

Consoles will most likely rule because they are easy, plain and simple. PCs offer a superior gaming experience (controls and graphics) as well as deeper storylines. Show someone COD or GOW on the PC and then put them back on the console only to cry about how bad it now looks. I only use my PS3 for social gaming (rock band, GH, etc) and racing (wheel, playseat, etc). I can't imagine playing a RTS on my PS3, that would suck!

My kids will learn to appreciate both. Long live PC gaming.

 

[marsax73]

Maybe people should do something more creative with their time than playing video games? How about read a book, hang out with your friends, watch some sporting events, etc.

 

[CptTripps]

[citation][nom]marsax73[/nom]Maybe people should do something more creative with their time than playing video games? How about read a book, hang out with your friends, watch some sporting events, etc.[/citation]

You are on a tech site writing in a forum, perhaps take your own advice. Besides that, I love to play games but still manage to do all those things you mentioned.

Last but not least, how is reading a book/watching sports "creative"?

 

[joe gamer]

Piracy is a just a scapegoat trotted out by companies who can't hack together a decent game.

Can't rent a PC game
Dev's don't put out demo's anymore
Can't trust review sites
PC games are non-returnable, non-refundable(because of the DRM and cd keys meant to prevent piracy lol. Well killed the second hand market so I guess win for them anyway?)

They've stacked the entire retail experience against me so why shouldn't I pirate a "demo"?

I have no problem shelling out money for games I actually play but your god damn right I'll "demo" the game before I buy it. I bought Mass effect 1&2, Bad Company 2, Dragon age, Humble Bundle, Warhammer DOW2, Fallout 3, nearly a hundred games on steam from 2009 alone. Hell I've got a back catalog that would make a nostalgic gamer cry tears of joy. Yet I've also demo'd nearly every PC game ever released and I'm glad for it because it saved me from buying some really shitty games.

My goal for PC gaming is to only buy "quality" games, that way developers and publishers might just stop wasting time cranking out crapware and focus on making games that are fun. Imagine if everyone "bought" section 8, then they'd all be madly cranking out section 8 sequels, and no one wants that.

when I think of the death of PC gaming I think of crapware like section 8, Iron Man, Shadowrun, the Halo ports, The RE4 port, hell any god damn port, Modern Warfare 2, Avatar, spore (DRM), Assasins Creed 2(Oh god more DRM), etc. This is the *** that's killing PC gaming, not piracy. Who in their right mind would want to pay for this junk?

Valve, Bioware, Blizzard, These guys seem to be doing just fine with their PC games so why is Epic floundering? oh yeah all of their last PC games have been shitty, "god damn pirates, how dare they not buy our shitty games" *shakes fist impotently toward the sky

Don't forget that pirates are also collectors, compulsive pack rats with terabytes of game iso's, they could play from dawn till dusk and not play them all. It's no wonder the download rates are high, one pirate will grab enough off the net to satisfy ten normal people. So it is important to remember that every download is not a lost sale, or likely to even be installed, most of them just sit on some hard-drive forgotten about, I only get to about a quarter of the demo's I download and I can't imagine many people spend more time on the computer than me.

Everyone has a certain amount of income they spend on entertainment, pirates included. If you make a game that's good enough then they will buy it(course most of them can't afford $60 chunks in their budget), but for PC gamers it has to be damn good or at least damn cheap. It also helps to get your game onto steam, god those specials are good at getting me to open my wallet.

A useful link I've seem recently http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/wolfire-programmer-poor-pc-ports-not-piracy-hurt-business.ars ignore the followup article about how the Humble bundle got pirated so much, the way they calculated the numbers was extremely biased and unscientific, in fact the whole article should be retracted but hey gotta get those hits.

Also some good info about the real purpose for DRM (hint: not piracy)
http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2007/01/8616.ars
love this article.

 

[marsax73]

[citation][nom]CptTripps[/nom]You are on a tech site writing in a forum, perhaps take your own advice. Besides that, I love to play games but still manage to do all those things you mentioned.Last but not least, how is reading a book/watching sports "creative"?[/citation]

I'm on a tech website during my work day multi-tasking and then when I get home, I play music, spend time with my family, etc. I do own a computer that I utilize to record my music so I'm not saying getting on a pc is a complete loss. Just saying to sit there and think of ways to pirate software and complain about why companies don't support new PC games is my problem. Maybe less worrying about games and more on something else that will actually produce something tangible. I like video games too but only play about 2-3 hours a week.

 

[mhughes81]

As mentioned previously, Valve and Blizzard are doing just fine.

I've bought plenty of PC games over the past few years but the only one that holds my interest the most is......WoW. 11 million people back me up on that too. 11 million x $15/mo = $165,000,000 monthly. Add to the fact that there are plenty of illegal private servers people play on and Blizzard is still pulling bank.

It is called learn and adapt. Before WoW, I was addicted to playing Battlefield 2 online. Use the internet to your advantage and stop blaming it for piracy.

HL2 and Portal were great, then I beat them. BF2 was great too. Doom 3, Spore, Sims 3, the new AvP game and all the others I bought are collecting dust because they failed to hold my interest....yet I mostly play a game that was released in 2004.

 

[eyemaster]

The pc sits in my room with a 24 inch monitor. The PS3 sits in the living room with a 46 inch monitor. Both have surround sound. Yes, I COULD put the PC on the TV, but it's just not as convenient.

With that said, sometime I'd rather sit on the couch, hold a controler and play some games in the open space of the living room than being in my room playing on the computer. Sometimes it's the other way around.

No reason to hate console OR PC gamers from either side.

 

[kanaric]

releasing unreal tournament twice in 2 years killing the online communities for the game and CoD and Battlefield 2 coming out for the PC did not?

 

[yamagiru]

To bad for them it is 100x easier to pirate a console game..........

 

[demonhorde665]

[citation][nom]rhino13[/nom]Just reading these comments makes me want to cry!What will it take to make you guys stop pirating?You just keep making up lies that it's someonelse's fault. It's the developer, it's the producer, it's DRM, it costs too much, it really isn't any good, I can't afford it... and on it goes. A virtually boundless number of excuses why it's OK for you to pirate and ruin PC gaming for the rest of us.[/citation]


I agree with you 100% theives will justify thier theft any way possible and i find it disturbing. ther is nothing that justifies stealing entertainment , you do not need it to continue living , there are many forms of entertainment that can cost less if you can't aford this or that entertainment. there is no excuse or justification for stealing games on any platform.
Furthermore i can not blame Epic or any other company for moving thier buisness to another platform. If you were starting a buisness you would not look to rent a buidling in an area where buisnesses are routinely robbed at gun point, so why should Epic or any other game company give much support to a platform that get's robbed a lot more than a different platform.

 

[NuclearShadow]

I have to call BS on this. Piracy has little to no impact on PC game sales when it comes to cd-key or app protected programs like steam.
I remember the original UT didn't have a cd-key protection so I could believe that piracy may have effected sales. But every one of their major titles sense then if I recall right has been protected. They simply cannot claim any of their modern titles that went to PC was effected by piracy. Any lack of sales is do to their part of not making quality games anymore just look at UT3.

If developers think that they can easily entertain console gamers with lower quality games forever and make major profits they are wrong.
Back in the 80's console gaming consisted of plat-formers like Mario and simplistic RPG's like the original final fantasy's while PC gamers tended to play more complex games. However you don't see that in console games today when it comes to big hit titles. They too evolve and while likely to always be 2 steps behind the PC what are developers like Epic going to do when they release what they expect to be a big hit title like UT4 and even the console gamers see it as trash and don't buy it? Piracy has nothing to do with this is all about lack of quality.

 

[NuclearShadow]

I would also like to make it clear that my previous comment is about multi-player focused games. Where single player is either nonexistent or isn't the true aim for the game to be played.

 

[matt87_50]

[citation][nom]duckmanx88[/nom]to make an awe inspiring game costs money to hire the talent to develop it. it doesn't pop out of midair. also those stupid 2d flash games make millions of dollars.you don't want to make that money? fine. don't. you're acting irrational and my only conclusion is that you're 12 and don't understand what a business is or that you're drunk out of your mind.[/citation]

I work as a game developer at a games company, and I don't pirate games. we have our games pirated but we don't care. we're doing fine none the less.

so maybe its you who doesn't understand.

I work at a games company because I like making good games, not because I like making money. games developers make a lot less money than general I.T. guys for that very reason. if all it was about was making money, I'd just go and do general I.T. get paid 3 times as much just to sit there all day telling people to jiggle the power cord.

piracy is WRONG. don't do it plz. but companies: deal with it, I can guarantee bitching to the general public about it isn't going to help.

we have had Epic come to us and try and sell their technology many times, and when it comes to PR and spin, they are pretty much as bad as Apple.

If the money you can make from the PC market isn't enough to fund your work then fine, so be it, Valve seem to do ok, but what ever right? they also have the unfair advantage of still being able to make GREAT GAMES that people want to buy. so fine, but don't come crying to us with a sob story about pirates!

maybe if it was some boring platform that no one cares about, like the PSP, I wouldn't care. but the PC? thats where the forefront of gaming tech is at! its where the consoles get a lot of their ideas, and for a big gaming tech company to not focus on it is sad. sad because the evolution of gaming technology will suffer.

 

[fpsdominator]

ummm do they know that all of their games are being pirated on the 360 just as much if not more?

 

[aletoil]

Ho Hum. Piracy has ALWAYS been an issue, and sure, faster net speeds, the economy, and *slightly* more knowledgeable users who can find games easier add to the problem. Gaming has effing changed. Blockbuster games are made like movies now:Sequels to only proven games and a notch or two above a movie in length. Thanks to hardware and the desire for big companies to make blockbuster games, they INVEST far more in making games than companies did back in the day, when they were just happy to have people play(shareware, demos...all concepts that are forgotten now)and pay when they could. We didn't get DLC 3-4 times a year at $5-$15 each. We waited 2 years to get a real expansion that was damn near another game(Diablo 2, Baldur's Gate 2, the various half life packs, see where im going?)

We have to be honest with ourselves. Most pirates were never going to buy the game. There is no difference between them downloading and subsequently not playing it and borrowing it from a friend. Either way you don't get paid. The emphasis should be on blowing the minds of the people who did pay, not telling them "tough luck" thanks to the people who didn't. Quote me on this:
The honest reason the industry is suffering is because it has become a legitimate media format. When companies saw the money Halo made vs the movies that came out at the same time, everyone who invests in those companies want similar performance. Production houses have grown from a garage of a few guys to a few hundred with ballooned budgets. The industry itself took what was a labor of love and increased its own overhead. The more money you spend the more you want back, correct? Pirates suck, sure, but repackaging the same game under different names to ride a wave of success another game had and telling me there is no demo in addition to the $10 increase in price is asking for me not to pay(I dont pirate. Im still playing Baldur's Gate, Quake 3, Half Life 2...no quality games have caught me eye in 5 years). In addition, Look at what happened to Tony Hawk's pro skater...guitar hero...devs must think every game and its 7 versions are all good. Dont even get me started on buying a game and being sold more pieces shortly after release...EA and your Sims 3 store, im looking at you.

 

[Cespenar]

Drakaun, do you think we can find out if a game sucks by not buying it?
That is the stupidest statement on this forum.
Rhino13, releasing demos will slow piracy. Nothing will stop it.
And why say others are liars. Another ridiculous statement.
A liar is the developer who released viruses so he/it could sell anti-virus software. He/it was fined many years ago and I hope he/it is broke.
I'll repeat myself, at age 64 I game all the time, but will only buy a game i can review for myself.
Which makes me ask drakaun an important question: Will you review games for us? No, of course you wont. Because you cant.