Foxconn Holds Anti-Suicide Rally for Employees

[irh_1974]

[citation][nom]azcoyote[/nom]Having actually been to Shenzhen and lived/worked in tech in the region, I can tell you the issue comes down to work environment and managerial culture. Think your boss drives you hard? Think again. No breaks is not uncommon. Employees being berated in front of co-workers. Not uncommon. Low pay (by our standards)? Not uncommon. With 920K, you can say what you want about percentages from Detroit... blah blah... The problem is culture and work environment. PERIOD.[/citation]
I'm not denying its hard work, it's so bad people are killing themselves LESS

 

[mchawk]

[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]Sorry to use abusive language, but are you fucking blind?Can't you read?Scale of the suicide? The scale is 1/7th that of the rest of the country.Jeez, maybe you should jump off a building instead...[/citation]

What are you?!? A well paid Foxconn employee?

Do you work 12 hours a day? I BET NOT!
Are you forbidden to talk with your co-workers? I BET NOT!
Are you underpaid? I BET NOT!
Are you forced to work in a place you don't want to? I BET NOT!
Do you have to do extra shift just to barely make it to the next month? I BET NOT!
Does your superior yell at you all the time? I BET NOT!
Do you think you're going nowhere and do nothing but the same day after day? I BET NOT!
Do you have to work standing? I BET NOT!
Are you human? I BET NOT!

So show a little sympathy, will ya?

 

[azcoyote]

[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]I'm not denying its hard work, it's so bad people are killing themselves LESS[/citation]

Wow. I will tell you this irh_1974... Your comments peg you as a complete Foxxconn shill. You must either work for them or with them... Otherwise, you are just a trolling moron...

Your apples to oranges comparisons were crap BTW. People committing suicide at an industrial complex due to working conditions is NOT a comparable statistic to how many people commit suicide in Detroit. The reasons/situations for suicide at Foxxconn are finite... Pay, treatment, work conditions, and culture. The demographic in Detroit is broad.. young and old are included. At Foxxconn, these are mostly young people... That the number of suicides at Foxxconn is LOWER than the Chinese national average doesn't mean Foxxconn is great. It just means that it is better than the average shithole Chinese company that abuses and exploits it's work force. That in no way makes Foxxconn good.

Like I said before... I have been there and seen it with my own eyes.
Sell your wares elsewhere you Foxxconn shill...

 

[irh_1974]

[citation][nom]azcoyote[/nom]Wow. I will tell you this irh_1974... Your comments peg you as a complete Foxxconn shill. You must either work for them or with them... Otherwise, you are just a trolling moron...Your apples to oranges comparisons were crap BTW. People committing suicide at an industrial complex due to working conditions is NOT a comparable statistic to how many people commit suicide in Detroit. The reasons/situations for suicide at Foxxconn are finite... Pay, treatment, work conditions, and culture. The demographic in Detroit is broad.. young and old are included. At Foxxconn, these are mostly young people... That the number of suicides at Foxxconn is LOWER than the Chinese national average doesn't mean Foxxconn is great. It just means that it is better than the average shithole Chinese company that abuses and exploits it's work force. That in no way makes Foxxconn good. Like I said before... I have been there and seen it with my own eyes.Sell your wares elsewhere you Foxxconn shill...[/citation]
Whatever dude, I did post a very good study on suicide rates for Taiwan which conatined stats for the exact demographic that are killing themselves at Foxconn. Under 25s, jumping off building, all the same circumstances. But obviously you just dont read facts, you just want to make up this stuff as you go along. Call me a shill all you want, but the only thing I am selling is the truth.

Answer me this Einstein.

Hard working conditions at Foxconn are bad - true.
So how come the suicide rate isn't HIGHER than outside Foxconn?

Answer me that 1 simple question without being a moron and not only will I stand corrected but I will wire you a thousand dollars, (monopoly money).

 

[LORD_ORION]

[citation][nom]pirateboy[/nom]this move by foxconn isn't creepy at all[/citation]

That is the creepy part... this is clearly a photo-op "look we're doing something" propaganda spin for the western world.

 

[rooket]

I like that new iphone, but life is too valuable.

 

[cruiseoveride]

Apple and their suicide factories.

 

[azcoyote]

[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]Whatever dude, I did post a very good study on suicide rates for Taiwan which conatined stats for the exact demographic that are killing themselves at Foxconn. Under 25s, jumping off building, all the same circumstances. But obviously you just dont read facts, you just want to make up this stuff as you go along. Call me a shill all you want, but the only thing I am selling is the truth.Answer me this Einstein.Hard working conditions at Foxconn are bad - true.So how come the suicide rate isn't HIGHER than outside Foxconn?Answer me that 1 simple question without being a moron and not only will I stand corrected but I will wire you a thousand dollars, (monopoly money).[/citation]

Simple. You are using a methodology that is FLAWED.

You cannot compare the suicides for Detroit with those of Foxxconn for one simple reason. In Detroit, there is NO SHARED COMMONALITY. While the demographic for the Foxxconn suicides is important, it pales in comparison to the importance of the fact that all the suicides at Foxxconn are AT FOXXCONN. It isn't the suicides in Shenzen being compared to Detroit. It isn't the suicides across the border in Hong Kong. It isn't the suicides in the greater part of PRC. You are comparing a group of people who ALL WORKED AT FOXXCONN AND WHO WERE ALL UNDER 25 to a group of people who span a BROAD demographic encompassing varying age, work places, lifestyles, and cultural backgrounds. In the Foxxconn instance, all of the previously listed traits were shared by the deceased. Working conditions. Age group. Even lifestyle (its pretty much a freaking city of its own). The Foxxconn facility is a microcosm, not a broad group base like Detroit.

Your comparisons are flawed.
Your conclusions are flawed.

That these suicides have happened at the rate they have inside a place like Foxxconn is indicative of a serious problem. Trying to compare them to the rates of a city or country while ignoring the fact that the stats involved are non-comparable is PURE DISHONESTY or INHERENT STUPIDITY on your part.
Whether by choice or ignorance, YOU ARE A SHILL.

Next to you, I really AM an Einstein apparently.
Feel free to wire the play money forthwith...

 

[LORD_ORION]

[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]Whatever dude, I did post a very good study on suicide rates for Taiwan which conatined stats for the exact demographic that are killing themselves at Foxconn. Under 25s, jumping off building, all the same circumstances. But obviously you just dont read facts, you just want to make up this stuff as you go along. Call me a shill all you want, but the only thing I am selling is the truth.Answer me this Einstein.Hard working conditions at Foxconn are bad - true.So how come the suicide rate isn't HIGHER than outside Foxconn?Answer me that 1 simple question without being a moron and not only will I stand corrected but I will wire you a thousand dollars, (monopoly money).[/citation]

I'll take a stab... the sample indicator. We'll take these 2 imaginary 3/100000 sample.

eg: 1 guy sets himself on fire for religious reasons
1 guy blows his brains out because he is a drug addict and realizes it.
1 guy commited a serious crime and is going to be punished, so he hangs himself.

3 FoxConn employees jump from a roof. Determined contributing factor for all 3? Work stress.

 

[stuckless]

920,000 strong workforce, increasing it to 1.3 million workers across 16 factories sometime next year.

MAKE MOAR NINTENDOS!!!

 

[azcoyote]

[citation][nom]LORD_ORION[/nom]I'll take a stab... the sample indicator. We'll take these 2 imaginary 3/100000 sample.eg: 1 guy sets himself on fire for religious reasons1 guy blows his brains out because he is a drug addict and realizes it.1 guy commited a serious crime and is going to be punished, so he hangs himself.3 FoxConn employees jump from a roof. Determined contributing factor for all 3? Work stress.[/citation]

Exactly the point I am trying to make with the shill, your example being far more succinct. Thank you LORD_ORION. Perfect example.

 

[nuvon]

Instead of putting up net, try treating them more human like. Maybe it will help? Believe it or not, some jails in the state have better living environment than factories in China. The inmates are treated with great respect.... National Geographic channel "Lockdown"

 

[JonathanDeane]

Damn it I want a cheaper Wii, stop killing yourselves!!! I blame management, obviously these people are not working hard enough, if they have free time to do this crap!!!

All joking aside (I hope people would recognize this as a joke and sarcasm) It's sad that employed people hate there jobs sooo badly that killing yourself seems like a better idea then going back to work. I have worked some awful jobs in my day 12 hour shifts in 100F weather with no breaks and a 15 minute lunch, but I had a decent home to look forward to going to when the work was done so killing myself wasn't really on my mind.

 

[irh_1974]

[citation][nom]azcoyote[/nom]Exactly the point I am trying to make with the shill, your example being far more succinct. Thank you LORD_ORION. Perfect example.[/citation]
So none of these 920,000 people have any other factors affecting them at all?
So seeing as the only thing that is making them commit suicide is work stress that explains the reduced rate?
Back to the comparison, not the Detroit one, this one
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2259336/
Also in Taiwan, also showing figures for the age group under 25, also showing figures for method by jumping, it all matches perfectly.
So let's break it down.
Outside Foxconn, in the general population, discount all the people who commit suicide for other reasons such as the aforementioned
1) guy sets himself on fire for religious reasons
1) guy blows his brains out because he is a drug addict
1) guy commited a serious crime and is going to be punished
How many are simply suicide due to work stress
If the number is lower than Foxconn I will concede you are right
If the number is higher than Foxconn, I expect you to do the same

Can anyone be bothered to actually do research on this subject?

 

[triculious]

I thought they had nailed the problem when my subconscious read "The company dished out tshirts, pom-poms..." as t-shirts, poRn-poms... then my brain kicked in and read the correct pom-poms =P

 

[azcoyote]

[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]So none of these 920,000 people have any other factors affecting them at all?So seeing as the only thing that is making them commit suicide is work stress that explains the reduced rate?Back to the comparison, not the Detroit one, this onehttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2259336/Also in Taiwan, also showing figures for the age group under 25, also showing figures for method by jumping, it all matches perfectly.So let's break it down.Outside Foxconn, in the general population, discount all the people who commit suicide for other reasons such as the aforementioned1) guy sets himself on fire for religious reasons1) guy blows his brains out because he is a drug addict1) guy commited a serious crime and is going to be punishedHow many are simply suicide due to work stressIf the number is lower than Foxconn I will concede you are rightIf the number is higher than Foxconn, I expect you to do the sameCan anyone be bothered to actually do research on this subject?[/citation]

You are an asshat of biblical proportions but I will try and explain it to you again....

You are using flawed logic to come to your conclusions.

Now, you want to compare people in the general population who kill themselves from work related stress to people at Foxxconn who kill themselves for the same reason.

By your logic, if less people kill themselves over work related stress AT FOXXCONN than do in the general population, then Foxxconn is exonerated.
THAT is the flaw in your thinking. I will give you that in your comparison, the number at Foxxcon is lower. That doesn't mean Foxxconn is not to blame. Quite the opposite actually. There is no dispersal in Foxxconn data. Same place, same group, same conditions.

That all the sample data in the example you posit regards people who kill themselves from work related stress does not make the comparison you are making valid. You are comparing TAIWAN to a single COMPANY. The sample data from Taiwan comes from people who do not share the commonality of WORKING FOR A SINGLE COMPANY. (BTW - Apples are the red crunchy ones, oranges are the ones you have to peel.)

In the words of Mark Twain... There are lies, damned lies and statistics.
You are a SHILL and a LIAR pal... You twist the data to match what you want to be perceived and compare data that is non-comparable.

Oh, I doubt you will ever concede I am right despite the fact I have PWNED you repeatedly in this debate. You are obviously incapable of that act of humility.

Still waiting on my play money...

 

[azcoyote]

Just as one last example, here is a metaphor for the statistical process... Maybe that will help you understand...

Say I go fishing with two nets.

One net is 50 feet across.
One net is 2 feet across.
I cast the nets one time each.

My big net returns 22 fish.
My little net returns 18 fish.

Which net is statistically significant?
Does the fact that the little net has fewer fish mean the big net is better? Or is there an unusually high concentration of fish in the small net?

Foxxconn is the little net here and the concentration of sample data within Foxxconn having commonality (age, stress, single company, DEAD) is the statistically important factor.

 

[BulkZerker]

Cost for those shirts? $10usd. Cost for a stool the employee earns the privladge of using so lonjg as thry don't pass out at the line $5.

Foxcon you did it wrong!

 

[Guest]

All of this debate about Foxconn vs Detroit (how suiting, I'm sitting in Detroit while writing this)... think of it this way. How many McDonald's suicides were there last year? None that I heard of. Maybe a few, but compared to this it approaches zero. Clearly then, working at McDonald's does not make you want to kill yourself.

I find that hard to believe. Time to jump.

 

[grieve]

I am going to apply @ Foxconn! The guy on the left looks far happier then I am.... hmm.. where are my anti-depressants again?

 

[mpavao81]

[citation][nom]mchawk[/nom]What are you?!? A well paid Foxconn employee?Do you work 12 hours a day? I BET NOT!Are you forbidden to talk with your co-workers? I BET NOT!Are you underpaid? I BET NOT!Are you forced to work in a place you don't want to? I BET NOT!Do you have to do extra shift just to barely make it to the next month? I BET NOT!Does your superior yell at you all the time? I BET NOT!Do you think you're going nowhere and do nothing but the same day after day? I BET NOT!Do you have to work standing? I BET NOT!Are you human? I BET NOT!So show a little sympathy, will ya?[/citation]

if you were asking this question 6 months ago I could answer yes to every one except the being forced part. There are plenty of shity companies/factory jobs like this in North America as well Ive been at one making parts for Ford at a feeder plant. A lot of companies get away with more than you think.

 

[MonsterCookie]

[citation][nom]theshonen8899[/nom]There are not too many people. The world is not as overpopulated as everyone thinks.


If you think humanity should die you can start off with yourself. Just understand that some people never had the choice.[/citation]

Get your facts right. Even 10% of the current human population would be already too much for this planet.

Second thing: They DO HAVE a chose. If they would stop pumping out kids, than they could TAKE CARE of those two or three kids instead of making 15 kids like an animal.

Humanity should not die, but if we PRETEND to be humans we should THINK and ACT as a human too.

 

[nuvon]

"10% of the current population would be already too much for this planet"

Maybe you should jump off the building first. This way we have one less human to feed.

 

[Azgoroth]

Reminds me of the Vietnam era pic of the POW flipping off the camera while pretending he was happy at the behest of his torturers. The 5 min that pic took to take was probably the first break those folks had all day.

 

[JackFrost860]

While working for an electronics company, i had to visit one of these factories and i can tell you that it is a living hell. Why is the iPhone so expensive if thay use slave labour?