FYI: Your FRAME RATES and your SOUND CARD

[Heyyou27]

Nice thread Slava. Don't pay attention to the people that don't believe the increase in performance, they just dont have a damn clue what they are talking about.

Owning an X-Fi, I can honestly say the performance increase you talk of is almost non existent. Maybe if you were playing at 640x480 on a low graphics quality, then you would notice a difference in framerate, but anything higher makes it almost nonexistent. I'm not saying a soundcard is worthless; I own an X-FI, however I cannot justify the purchase with performance increases.

 

[Slava]

He calls the thread participants(us) a bunch of "wankers", and uses his girlfriends oppinion on the matter to add sustenance to his (and your) own oppinion.

Hehe. Hot got balls.

 

[Slava]

This thread belongs in the freakin' sound card forum anyways....it has nothing to do with graphics cards :roll:

Lol good point, why is it here anyway?

Because everyone who wants to improve perfromance in games (FPS) comes here. It does not occur to anyone to think of improving FPS by switching to a dedicated sound card.

 

[Slava]

Yeah, installing that X-Fi sounds card only boosted my 3dmark06 score from 6350 to 6580. Not a big jump in performance at all. :roll:

Please don't tell me you're using a synthetic benchmark to measure the performance improvement of adding a dedicated soundcard. :lol:

As long as it is a full version with sound... why not use a synthetic? (I've nerver had a commercial version of any 3DMark though so I don't really know much about its features).

 

[Slava]

Nice thread Slava. Don't pay attention to the people that don't believe the increase in performance, they just dont have a damn clue what they are talking about.

Owning an X-Fi, I can honestly say the performance increase you talk of is almost non existent. Maybe if you were playing at 640x480 on a low graphics quality, then you would notice a difference in framerate, but anything higher makes it almost nonexistent. I'm not saying a soundcard is worthless; I own an X-FI, however I cannot justify the purchase with performance increases.

Okay, guys... One last time: It is not about how immediately noticeable the boost is. It is about % of total perfromance. All else equal, would you rather have 100% or 105%?

By way of analogy:

1. Do you see a major difference between driving at 50 mph versus 55 mph (50 vs. 55 is a 10% speed increase)? I am sure you do not, especially if you are driving on an empty street. But enter a highway where (for the sake of discussion) every single car is going at 50 mph while you are doing a steady 55 mph. Major difference? No, but you are passing everyone. Heck, you will be passing everyone even if you do 51 vs their 50.

2. Not long ago there was an automotive discussion on this forum. Some people (myself included) were wondering what's the big deal about a 500 Hp HEMI engine. Well, 160 Hp or 500 Hp does not make a difference (except in the fuel consumption department) in day-to-day driving when you spend 50% of the time in traffic jams. But, for example, if you could afford to have a turbo car instead of the non-turbo version of the same car which one would you prefer? Or the same non-turbo car with some performance options installed?

Point is that evey little bit helps. And PC performance enhancements add up

If you are using a top of the line Core 2 Duo CPU, it is so powerful that you will likely notice no difference in your PC performance regardless of the type of sound card you are using. But, most people have average machines; and those who come to this forum trying to figure out simple and budget sensitive ways of prolonging lives of their below average machines should be aware of performance benefits of using dedicated sound cards. What else can I say?

 

[lasseht]

I think it's a great post!

I have an Audigy Pro in my now old system:

Quick spec: P4 3Ghz, 1Gb ram, Audigy Pro, GeForce 6800 ultra, SATA HD.


One thing that has not really been talked about is things like VoIP apps, like Skybe, Team Speak etc.

playing eve-online we some times have up to 200+ people in the same TS channel and the people how have problems often have issues because of a bad headset/mic or because they use a build in sound card.

I'm soon to upgrade, might just wait till the G80 is out, but a X-Fi card is def on the shopping list.

 

[Howard_Stern]

Thanks for the answer Hey. Cool pic by the way. 😀

 

[Howard_Stern]

Finally, someone is over exaggerating the benefits of a dedicated soundcard. The only real benefit gained from a dedicated soundcard is the improved sound quality.

Heyyou27, I hate to bother you, but is your image a scene from the Jonestown massacre?

Off subject I know. My sincere apoligies, but I must know.

High regards,
HowardYes it is.

I'd like to tell you a Jim Jones joke, but the PUNCHLINE is too long.

Hey kaotao,
would love to hear it. It's not like these posts ever go off subject...LOL

 

[gm0n3y]

Yeah, installing that X-Fi sounds card only boosted my 3dmark06 score from 6350 to 6580. Not a big jump in performance at all. :roll:

Please don't tell me you're using a synthetic benchmark to measure the performance improvement of adding a dedicated soundcard. :lol:

As long as it is a full version with sound... why not use a synthetic? (I've nerver had a commercial version of any 3DMark though so I don't really know much about its features).

I have a 'friend' that found the full version of the latest 3dmark on a bittorrent site. Its actually pretty easy to find and lets you change many different settings (all resolutions, aliasing, etc). You can't submit scores though, obviously.

 

[Slava]

Thanks gm0n3y

BY POPULAR DEMAND :lol: I've made some edits to my original post. I hope that this will reduce the bickering and we can discuss this in a more constructive manner.

 

[Dr_asik]

Wow poor me, I'm stuck with 408 frames per seconds... must... buy... sound card!

 

[Slava]

Wow poor me, I'm stuck with 408 frames per seconds... must... buy... sound card!

That's 9.6% performance improvement. Your sarcasm is useless because in a different game average frame rate may be lower and an almost 10% boost will make a difference.

Let's consider this: I want to prolong the useful life of my aging PC until I can do a complete upgrade including a next generation video card. Assume I am not very good at removing stock coolers and installing aftermarket ones, so I am afraid to overclock my video card very aggressively. Let's say I can safely overclock my video card with stock cooling only marginally

and this gives me a 6% performance boost.

Then I install a good sound card

and get, say, another 9%.

Then I tweak Windows and unload all unnecessary background applications and services,

say I get another 3%.

Defrag my hard drive and do other tweaks such as set my paging file to a fixed size and

this gives me another 1%

Finally, since I am also fearful of aggressively OCing my CPU and RAM

here I get, say 4%

This brings me to a total of 23% performance improvement. What this translates to is that my 25 FPS (which is rather choppy) becomes much smoother 31 FPS .

Like I said, it all adds up. What I find significant here is that by spending $50-60 on a sound card and doing some minor tweaking/maintenance I have a stable system with much better performance and better sound to boot. What's not to love?

P.S.

EDIT: Additionally, not every game relies entirely on the GPU. Some games are much more CPU intensive than others and some other games may be CPU intensive and rely heavily on sound at the same time. Yes, in some cases you will get almost of all your game’s performance boost from upgrading your video card or flashing its BIOS or overclocking or all of the above. But in other games where the CPU works double time as it is the sound card will be a major performance factor.

 

[4745454b]

Right, and I think this is what I and others are hung up on. Getting a sound card is just like another "tweak". Onboard sound has come far enough that it really is good enough for most people. If I went with a sound card in this computer, I would have had to get a 7600GT or ATI card of similar price/performance, instead of the x1800XT. By using onbaord sound, I have good enough sound, and a video card that is more then just 10% more powerful.

By no means am I saying sound cards are a waste. But in todays age, they really aren't needed, unless that 5-10% is going to give you that little bit that you need.

 

[derek101700]

why not spend the $$s on a faster 15% faster cpu than a sound system, for sound is not too important to me, the 15% cpu speed will make everything else faster other than just sound

 

[JonathanDeane]

why not spend the $$s on a faster 15% faster cpu than a sound system, for sound is not too important to me, the 15% cpu speed will make everything else faster other than just sound

Very true but I think the point he is making is that no matter how much money you spend on upgrades, all things being equal (IE some one has the same system as you) the one who installs a sound card will get a slight performance increase. Wich is true I might add (as long as you have your games configured to take advantage of things like X-RAM lol)
Its all a pretty pointless discussion there are two groups of people who will pay to have a sound card, Audiophiles who have to have the best sound money can buy and Performance freaks who have to have the fastest system money can buy. If you dont fit in one of those groups (or maybe a milder combination of both like me) then dont buy a sound card ! Onbourd audio has improved to the point of being equal or better then an old Sound Blaster ! (Not knocking the SB it was an awesome card in its day !) I think Nvidia had a mobo that had something called SoundStorm ? I believe that was or is the best onbourd audio one could get ?

As always todays top end will be tomaro's junk ! (Weeps over his poor retired 9800 Pro)

 

[kaotao]

Finally, someone is over exaggerating the benefits of a dedicated soundcard. The only real benefit gained from a dedicated soundcard is the improved sound quality.

Heyyou27, I hate to bother you, but is your image a scene from the Jonestown massacre?

Off subject I know. My sincere apoligies, but I must know.

High regards,
HowardYes it is.

I'd like to tell you a Jim Jones joke, but the PUNCHLINE is too long.

Hey kaotao,
would love to hear it. It's not like these posts ever go off subject...LOL

That WAS the joke. Get it... Jonestown massacre... they drank poison koolaid... the punchline is too long... get it?

EDIT: typo

 

[gm0n3y]

I think that another way of putting it is that if you have decent system and want an upgrade, if you have onboard sound, buying an addon card can be a good bang for the buck, considering you would have to invest much more than the $50 to get a new video card or cpu.

 

[Heyyou27]

Once again, you're exaggerating the performance increases when using a dedicated soundcard.

 

[levicki]

And as games use more realistic sounds, the processors get better, so they can still handle them.

There isn't single desktop dual-core CPU available yet which has enough horse power to produce reverberation for 64 or 128 channel positional 3D sound using FDN or any other high-quality reverb algorithm and to run other things such as AI and game visuals (video driver also uses CPU time you know).

 

[randomizer]

Once again, you're exaggerating the performance increases when using a dedicated soundcard.

But the point is that the performance increase is there, and it's sometimes significant considering the price of a sound card.

Also I have a question. Do you think I should se my old SB live in my old pc instead of its onboard sound? That system which I quoted the specs for on the previous page currently uses your tyical ac 97 audio chip on the abit kv8-max3.

 

[randomizer]

And as games use more realistic sounds, the processors get better, so they can still handle them.

There isn't single desktop dual-core CPU available yet which has enough horse power to produce reverberation for 64 or 128 channel positional 3D sound using FDN or any other high-quality reverb algorithm and to run other things such as AI and game visuals (video driver also uses CPU time you know).
Of course not, and no onboard supports that well anyway. But the cpu can handle the basics pretty well.

 

[Slava]

system which I quoted the specs for on the previous page currently uses your tyical ac 97 audio chip

Yeah. AC97 plain stinks. I am rather confident that you will get both a performance increase and much better sound (unless you use some $hitty desktop speakers )

EDIT: Ahem.. but I have to ask... Just how old an SB are we talking about? If it is SB 64 :? then no, stick with AC97

 

[randomizer]

Its a SB live value 5.1 card. And my speakers are pretty crappy, creative inspire 4400 4.1 "surround" (I like to think so )

 

[dean7]

People are really starting to bug me when it comes to grammar and spelling. Here we are, talking about the obscure issue of whether or not adding a stand-along sound card can affect (not effect) your FPS, and these people can't (not cant) even spell. How am I supposed to trust somebody's opinion when they can't spell the word opinion?

I don't mean to be a jerk, but the moral of this story is: at least take the time to cut and paste your post into a word doc and spell check it. Please?

Let's just take a look at this post...

He calls the thread participants(us) a bunch of "wankers", and uses his girlfriends

... girlfriend's

oppinion on the matter to add sustenance to his(and your) own oppinion.

Oppinion isn't a word. Perhaps you mean opinion?

That's like me saying "your a dolt".....and getting my girlfriend to agree with me that your a dolt, so by golly....you must really be a dolt.

You're a dolt... not your a dolt. This kind of crap drives me nuts. Am I the only one???

....and I can guarantee you, that my girlfriend is much better at recognizing a dolt, then his girlfriend will ever be at noticing a possible slight increase in framerates in some ****** computer game(complete bullshit :roll: )

Comma usage is horrible, and you might want to look "then" up in the dictionary. I think you'll then find that the word you really wanted to use was "than".

 

[randomizer]

Not everyone is natively english-speaking like you, not saying that GeneticWeapon isnt. And for your info, I often leave out apostrophes in wourds because Im lazy. I also often dont use capitals unless its the beginning of a sentence or its an 'I' (and even then I dont always do it), again because Im lazy and dont want to spend forever spell/gammar-checking. Also this is a hardware forum, not an english forum.