Nice comparison look like i'll be buying 2 5870 fo the same price of the gtx 580 and have awsome performance. For those biases people against ati I'll have you know tha i'm an nvidia fan boy but my mobo only suppors crossfire and you cannot beat the value that ati is offering for the 5000 series of cards.
- Status
- Jul 4, 2008
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[citation][nom]scrumworks[/nom]Tom's lacking the know how i guess. Check this Finnish site article. They have used the older version of Furmark to bypass nvidia's "Advanced Power Management" feature. Also, they are not using "custom" Metro 2033 settings and instead using in-game "high" settings to avoid further bias. http://tinyurl.com/3xl79wd[/citation]
What utility is there, really, in FurMark, especially if it's generating an unrealistic load case? I frankly prefer the idea of using a logged max-detail gaming load to determine power use. If this is something you guys would like to see in the future, I'm down to go that route.
As for the detail settings, I used Very High quality, PhysX disabled, DoF disabled, 4xMSAA, and 16xAF for the Custom settings. There, bias averted *whew* =)
What utility is there, really, in FurMark, especially if it's generating an unrealistic load case? I frankly prefer the idea of using a logged max-detail gaming load to determine power use. If this is something you guys would like to see in the future, I'm down to go that route.
As for the detail settings, I used Very High quality, PhysX disabled, DoF disabled, 4xMSAA, and 16xAF for the Custom settings. There, bias averted *whew* =)
Travis Beane
Distinguished
- Aug 6, 2010
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That case is a thing of beauty. I have a lovely Silverstone KL-01, but I use a Antec 300 instead. The KL-01 is a midtower, and the 300 s a full tower, and I simply need the extra space.
Disappointing though, the KL-01 is a sexy beast. The KL-01 is quite similar to a FN Talon (I'd prefer the talon actually, as I don't want the transparent side panel).
That case, however, is in my sights. What a beauty. Black brushed steel. Steel, right? None of the pansy aluminum stuff right? The option for removing the logo is pretty cool too.
Rough, simple and badass, the way it should be.
I wasn't interestd in the GTX 480 launch, but atleast they finally relased the card they meant to. I've had 1 Nvidia and 4 ATi cards so far, who will get my money next?
Disappointing though, the KL-01 is a sexy beast. The KL-01 is quite similar to a FN Talon (I'd prefer the talon actually, as I don't want the transparent side panel).
That case, however, is in my sights. What a beauty. Black brushed steel. Steel, right? None of the pansy aluminum stuff right? The option for removing the logo is pretty cool too.
Rough, simple and badass, the way it should be.
I wasn't interestd in the GTX 480 launch, but atleast they finally relased the card they meant to. I've had 1 Nvidia and 4 ATi cards so far, who will get my money next?
[citation][nom]cangelini[/nom]tpi: Don actually did that review for us up in Canada. A little backstory: my wife gave birth to our first little one about five weeks ago. In my absence, Don attended the AMD launch event in Los Angeles, took two boards home, and got some others from HIS to make the CrossFire comparison possible. AMD stopped by in Bakersfield before taking back off to Markham, but only left a single 6870 and a single 6850. They're now shipping duplicate boards to enable CrossFire of both, but as I get back into full swing, I wasn't able to do CrossFire'd 6800s in this one. The 5870 1GBs and 2GBs were still good info to me, though.Shoot, for anyone trying to match the performance of a single 580 with multiple cards, remember that a pair of 460s is faster than the 480. You can get two 1 GB cards for like $380. A pair of 6850s could do the same thing. There are a ton of dual-card configurations you could come up with to best a 580, really...[/citation]
Congratulations Chris! Those must be busy times then 😉 All the best!
Now if you could just explain me two things: Why is Don's name in the comments section Cleeve ? Or it isn't ? It was a bit confusing in the beginning, and I'm still not 100% sure it's him. Actually I should just aks him, but you're probably more at hand right now hehehe.
Second, is it me or you didn't do an acoustics measurement ?
Congratulations Chris! Those must be busy times then 😉 All the best!
Now if you could just explain me two things: Why is Don's name in the comments section Cleeve ? Or it isn't ? It was a bit confusing in the beginning, and I'm still not 100% sure it's him. Actually I should just aks him, but you're probably more at hand right now hehehe.
Second, is it me or you didn't do an acoustics measurement ?
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It's him
I had videos of GTX 480s in SLI and GTX 580s in SLI to showcase the difference, but upon capturing them, discovered that my mic sensitivity was too high, creating a near-field buzz. Next time I'll not bother with trying to get fancy and just use the Extech meter I've been using for the past year.
I had videos of GTX 480s in SLI and GTX 580s in SLI to showcase the difference, but upon capturing them, discovered that my mic sensitivity was too high, creating a near-field buzz. Next time I'll not bother with trying to get fancy and just use the Extech meter I've been using for the past year.
TheGreatGrapeApe
Champion
- Feb 18, 2003
- 20,040
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Can't help but notice that the GTX580 review got non of the naming scheme BS that the HD6870 got, for being a GTX485 and not a GTX580, and you even mention it's nothing new, but you focus (correctly) on the price not the BS names, just wish you could've seen fit not to waste a whole FAQin' page in the HD6870 review on that, but I guess the concern about people being fooled into thinking the HD6870 was a major upgrade for a much lower price was greater than the concern about the GTX580 being a major upgrade for the same price. 
I guess when people come to expect bad naming for one IHV and not the other then it's worth a whole page to detract from the rest of the review and then in the other just ignore it as business as usual.
Wow you even managed to get in an Adobe CS5 plug with a hack for the one 1 out of 3 features MPE has that is CUDA accelerated (and to be replaced by OpenCL in the next release according to Adobe), all that before you were able to run more HQV or better tests on the HD6870 to finally improve on the rushed initial review that there was 'no time for'. And even in this test you half-ass it again ! "I’m leaving AMD’s cards out because this isn’t an AMD versus Nvidia battle. It’s all about hardware (GPU) against software (CPU) rendering—expect the AMD cards to look a lot like the Nvidia cards running in software mode."
If you're going to leave them out, then don't mention them, you don't even test the cards yet you comment on their expected performance in a way that is far from neutral, it clearly positions AMD v nV.
Jeez Chris, you should know better than that, seriously WTF kind of validity is there in that comment without actually making the test? Well we don't want to make it A vs B, but assume that B best effort is as bad as A horrible low-end results.
Cleeve should've included other references in his review for the HQV results and then use the time excuse when he could've simply added the provided material for reference in a shorter time than it took to write the naming BS (no Cleeve telling me it gets 204/210 (or AMD got 198) doesn't mean Jack if I don't know what the intel or nV numbers are for the same rig/test, as they could be getting 207 and 209 respectively or did that not occur to you that without a relationship to other cards you don't know what a 'good', 'good enough' or 'great' score is).
Seriously guys, get some consistency in your testing methods and your writing. [:grahamlv:3]
And get a better editor who will force you guys to maintain internal and external validity in your testing methods, cause right now whether it's the excuse of time or effort, neither of these last two reviews have been up to the standards of even your Fermi paper-launch review and analysis in January.
For the limited time I have to read reviews, I see less reason to read a THG one as it's gone from a great technical review (Chris' old reviews were among the better ones out there) to simply a slight alteration on the re-hash of the PR kit. At least Crash/Thomas' reviews are still the A-class calibre he's been producing since before he joined the THG staff, I will still seek out his reviews as they remain among the best in the biz, even if he doesn't get all the attention and all the sexy new toys.
I'll wait for a better review (Like Xbit's that came a few days later) rather than worry about who published on day/minute one, and right now it seems that's the goal in order to get page views by getting it out there fast rather than getting out a review worthy of the previous THG efforts.
I guess when people come to expect bad naming for one IHV and not the other then it's worth a whole page to detract from the rest of the review and then in the other just ignore it as business as usual.
Wow you even managed to get in an Adobe CS5 plug with a hack for the one 1 out of 3 features MPE has that is CUDA accelerated (and to be replaced by OpenCL in the next release according to Adobe), all that before you were able to run more HQV or better tests on the HD6870 to finally improve on the rushed initial review that there was 'no time for'. And even in this test you half-ass it again ! "I’m leaving AMD’s cards out because this isn’t an AMD versus Nvidia battle. It’s all about hardware (GPU) against software (CPU) rendering—expect the AMD cards to look a lot like the Nvidia cards running in software mode."
If you're going to leave them out, then don't mention them, you don't even test the cards yet you comment on their expected performance in a way that is far from neutral, it clearly positions AMD v nV.
Jeez Chris, you should know better than that, seriously WTF kind of validity is there in that comment without actually making the test? Well we don't want to make it A vs B, but assume that B best effort is as bad as A horrible low-end results.
Cleeve should've included other references in his review for the HQV results and then use the time excuse when he could've simply added the provided material for reference in a shorter time than it took to write the naming BS (no Cleeve telling me it gets 204/210 (or AMD got 198) doesn't mean Jack if I don't know what the intel or nV numbers are for the same rig/test, as they could be getting 207 and 209 respectively or did that not occur to you that without a relationship to other cards you don't know what a 'good', 'good enough' or 'great' score is).
Seriously guys, get some consistency in your testing methods and your writing. [:grahamlv:3]
And get a better editor who will force you guys to maintain internal and external validity in your testing methods, cause right now whether it's the excuse of time or effort, neither of these last two reviews have been up to the standards of even your Fermi paper-launch review and analysis in January.
For the limited time I have to read reviews, I see less reason to read a THG one as it's gone from a great technical review (Chris' old reviews were among the better ones out there) to simply a slight alteration on the re-hash of the PR kit. At least Crash/Thomas' reviews are still the A-class calibre he's been producing since before he joined the THG staff, I will still seek out his reviews as they remain among the best in the biz, even if he doesn't get all the attention and all the sexy new toys.
I'll wait for a better review (Like Xbit's that came a few days later) rather than worry about who published on day/minute one, and right now it seems that's the goal in order to get page views by getting it out there fast rather than getting out a review worthy of the previous THG efforts.
Bluescreendeath
Splendid
- Jan 15, 2009
- 4,199
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Bluescreendeath
Splendid
- Jan 15, 2009
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[citation][nom]mustbhacks[/nom]I'd say Metro more than fills Crysis's shoes.And to the guy above who was dissapointed by the 6850, you're insane.[/citation]
Crysis at Very High looks way better than Metro2033. And UltraHigh mods blows Metro away.
Crysis at Very High looks way better than Metro2033. And UltraHigh mods blows Metro away.
NightLight
Distinguished
- Dec 7, 2004
- 576
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So Nvidia has a single chip card that almost and in some cases outperforms a dual chip card. Good show! now "gx2" it 😉
Benchmark Results: SLI
Chris I can under stand how you want to show how well or not the GTX fairs up against AMD's Flag ship Cards in SLI VS CrossFire , but in this case you failed as you left out the 6870.
Yes it is not TOP card but be honest , even you KNOW it is FASTER then the GTX ,5870 and 5970 in CrossFire. So Why did you Leave it out ???
Other sites like Guru 3d have in on the charts and guess what ???
May be NVIDIA ( or AMD for that matter ) does not want the 6870 crossfired compared to here simply because it is a BEAST in crossfire.
ALL for $480
Chris I can under stand how you want to show how well or not the GTX fairs up against AMD's Flag ship Cards in SLI VS CrossFire , but in this case you failed as you left out the 6870.
Yes it is not TOP card but be honest , even you KNOW it is FASTER then the GTX ,5870 and 5970 in CrossFire. So Why did you Leave it out ???
Other sites like Guru 3d have in on the charts and guess what ???
May be NVIDIA ( or AMD for that matter ) does not want the 6870 crossfired compared to here simply because it is a BEAST in crossfire.
ALL for $480
- Jul 4, 2008
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Great,
It's easy: AMD incremented a generation and *reduced* performance. That warrants a stern warning to anyone in the market who might get duped. Nvidia incremented a generation and *increased* performance.
Does the GTX 580 deserve to be called a GTX 580? I asked Nvidia this directly. Why not call it a GTX 490? Well, as it turns out, there is another wave of cards coming based on this "bug-fixed" version of the chip. The company's lineup is already convoluted enough with 450, 460, 465, 470, 480, etc. Do we really want to see 457, 468, 474, etc as new versions start emerging? I don't. Had they slid backward on perf., though, they would have received similar treatment.
As for the CS5 test, there is absolutely no reason to make that another reason to fuel the fanboy fire by making it an AMD/Nvidia fight. If you're rendering on the CPU, then you're rendering on the CPU--graphics be darned. It's a pretty basic concept, which has nothing with "half-assing" anything.
Thanks for the feedback, though!
Chris
It's easy: AMD incremented a generation and *reduced* performance. That warrants a stern warning to anyone in the market who might get duped. Nvidia incremented a generation and *increased* performance.
Does the GTX 580 deserve to be called a GTX 580? I asked Nvidia this directly. Why not call it a GTX 490? Well, as it turns out, there is another wave of cards coming based on this "bug-fixed" version of the chip. The company's lineup is already convoluted enough with 450, 460, 465, 470, 480, etc. Do we really want to see 457, 468, 474, etc as new versions start emerging? I don't. Had they slid backward on perf., though, they would have received similar treatment.
As for the CS5 test, there is absolutely no reason to make that another reason to fuel the fanboy fire by making it an AMD/Nvidia fight. If you're rendering on the CPU, then you're rendering on the CPU--graphics be darned. It's a pretty basic concept, which has nothing with "half-assing" anything.
Thanks for the feedback, though!
Chris
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[citation][nom]nate007[/nom]Benchmark Results: SLI Chris I can under stand how you want to show how well or not the GTX fairs up against AMD's Flag ship Cards in SLI VS CrossFire , but in this case you failed as you left out the 6870.Yes it is not TOP card but be honest , even you KNOW it is FASTER then the GTX ,5870 and 5970 in CrossFire. So Why did you Leave it out ???Other sites like Guru 3d have in on the charts and guess what ???May be NVIDIA ( or AMD for that matter ) does not want the 6870 crossfired compared to here simply because it is a BEAST in crossfire.ALL for $480[/citation]
Addressed earlier in the comments! Thanks,
Chris
Addressed earlier in the comments! Thanks,
Chris
[citation][nom]cangelini[/nom]Addressed earlier in the comments! Thanks,Chris[/citation]
Ive always referenced Toms Charts and THANK god you guys are staying on top of things otherwise it be a shame if Toms became just another web site.
Thanks Cris looking forward to the updated Crossfire / SLI reviews !!
Ive always referenced Toms Charts and THANK god you guys are staying on top of things otherwise it be a shame if Toms became just another web site.
Thanks Cris looking forward to the updated Crossfire / SLI reviews !!
Partizan92
Distinguished
- Nov 6, 2010
- 29
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as the game rules say... both players have to show their cards before the winners name is told to the crowd... now we just have to wait for the other player
The GPU wars are back on! Finally some interesting hardware wars to talk about, unfortunately nVidia hasn't impressed me with being so far behind its original release with the G400 cards and the G500 series seems like a bandaid to counter AMD. nVidia needs to focus incredibly on the G600 starting and focus on doing what it used to do best, making AMD/ATi catch up. Right now this almost looks embarrassing for nVidia with the G4/500 series and because of those two generations it's painfully clear that nVidia got stumbled BIG TIME by AMD.
AvielSe7en
Distinguished
- Nov 9, 2010
- 5
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- 18,510
First off, great review...I applauded the observation about the TWIMTBP games.
I'm from the UK and i'm looking at the prices of the new GTX580s from all board manufacters....I have to say Nvidia are pricing these so aggressively...to the point that the prices of the GTX480 match that of the 580s. I'm incredibly excited what this means when AMD release their new top end line up of cards....this is great news for gamers all round!
Oh and when you mentioned in your article on the 6850 and the 6870 and Nvidia's decision to drive their prices down...well i hope AMD's response is similar when they release their new line of cards because currently on other website and video reviews...the 6870 is being directly compared to the 460s...which in terms of pricepoint is not good for AMD since i'm seeing a HUGE price difference between these products...whether these reviewers have the wrong end of the stick or AMD have misjudged the pricing wars, have yet to be seen. I'm a bit sad to say that i'm a bit of an AMD fan however 😀
I'm from the UK and i'm looking at the prices of the new GTX580s from all board manufacters....I have to say Nvidia are pricing these so aggressively...to the point that the prices of the GTX480 match that of the 580s. I'm incredibly excited what this means when AMD release their new top end line up of cards....this is great news for gamers all round!
Oh and when you mentioned in your article on the 6850 and the 6870 and Nvidia's decision to drive their prices down...well i hope AMD's response is similar when they release their new line of cards because currently on other website and video reviews...the 6870 is being directly compared to the 460s...which in terms of pricepoint is not good for AMD since i'm seeing a HUGE price difference between these products...whether these reviewers have the wrong end of the stick or AMD have misjudged the pricing wars, have yet to be seen. I'm a bit sad to say that i'm a bit of an AMD fan however 😀
cleeve
Illustrious
- Mar 7, 2003
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[citation][nom]TheGreatGrapeApe[/nom]Can't help but notice that the GTX580 review got non of the naming scheme BS that the HD6870 got, for being a GTX485 and not a GTX580, and you even mention it's nothing new[/citation]
You totally miss the point, Ape. Our beef is about the implied 6800 performance vs the previous gen name.
6870 < 5870
580 > 480
As far as the 580 name, there's not really anything to complain about. The 580 is a performance upgrade from the 480.
But the 6870 is a performance downgrade from the 5870. That's why we mentioned it, because it's somewhat misleading. The name suggests that performance should be better than the 5870, but it's not even on par - it's quite inferior.
You totally miss the point, Ape. Our beef is about the implied 6800 performance vs the previous gen name.
6870 < 5870
580 > 480
As far as the 580 name, there's not really anything to complain about. The 580 is a performance upgrade from the 480.
But the 6870 is a performance downgrade from the 5870. That's why we mentioned it, because it's somewhat misleading. The name suggests that performance should be better than the 5870, but it's not even on par - it's quite inferior.
[citation][nom]_Pez_[/nom]This is review is almost all i need to know, now i am just waiting to see Radeon High end graphics Card and then buy 2 of the best of the best... whichever company.[/citation]
While the 5870 does indeed fair better then the 6870 on a 1v 1, it is not what most think , in other words if you look at the DX11 games especially at 1920 x 1600 or higher the 6870 scales nicely. Add to this another card and now you have the 6870's besting the 5870's in crossfire. So while it's certainly not an upgrade to someone who has a 5870 already I wouldn't say it is a downgrade. The crossfire scaling of the 6000 series is obviously better .
While the 5870 does indeed fair better then the 6870 on a 1v 1, it is not what most think , in other words if you look at the DX11 games especially at 1920 x 1600 or higher the 6870 scales nicely. Add to this another card and now you have the 6870's besting the 5870's in crossfire. So while it's certainly not an upgrade to someone who has a 5870 already I wouldn't say it is a downgrade. The crossfire scaling of the 6000 series is obviously better .
g-thor
Distinguished
- Nov 7, 2008
- 227
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I'm not sure what Chris meant here. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embargo, an embargo is "the partial or complete prohibition of commerce and trade with a particular country, in order to isolate it." Who has AMD embargoed?
I know, I sound like the language police, but words have meanings, and those who work with words as a profession need to know those meanings so they can communicate clearly. It is probably just a slip, but I really don't know what Chris meant. I can guess, but I shouldn't need to guess at what a writer means.
While I would probably be called an AMD fanboy, I really hope nVidia hits big with this, as it will push AMD to their next big chip as well. Competition works to the consumers' benefit. Go, AMD/nVidia, Go!
[citation][nom]g-thor[/nom]I'm not sure what Chris meant here. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embargo, an embargo is "the partial or complete prohibition of commerce and trade with a particular country, in order to isolate it." Who has AMD embargoed?I know, I sound like the language police, but words have meanings, and those who work with words as a profession need to know those meanings so they can communicate clearly. It is probably just a slip, but I really don't know what Chris meant. I can guess, but I shouldn't need to guess at what a writer means.While I would probably be called an AMD fanboy, I really hope nVidia hits big with this, as it will push AMD to their next big chip as well. Competition works to the consumers' benefit. Go, AMD/nVidia, Go![/citation]
Me either, I'm sure Cris will explain.
GO NVIDIA !! GO AMD !! ......GO Lower Prices so I can get a 2nd CARD!!
Seriouly though ,this is GREAT !!! I can see the price shifting as Cayman come's out and resets the playing field !!
The GOLDEN Eggs (IMHOP) are the 6850/6870 & 460/470...these are the cards to get and HOPEFULLY they will continue to go DOWN in price !!
Me either, I'm sure Cris will explain.
GO NVIDIA !! GO AMD !! ......GO Lower Prices so I can get a 2nd CARD!!
Seriouly though ,this is GREAT !!! I can see the price shifting as Cayman come's out and resets the playing field !!
The GOLDEN Eggs (IMHOP) are the 6850/6870 & 460/470...these are the cards to get and HOPEFULLY they will continue to go DOWN in price !!
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