I see absolutely no reason to go Intel now

[coolsquirtle]

Right now AMD is taking the lead, that doesn't mean it'll stay this way. remember Athlon 1000? Intel dont just sit at Santa Clara and go "oh AMD is beating us, MEH!"

also, Athlon XP got their asses kicked serverly by the P4Cs find me proof otherwise.

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
never tried to go crazy when it comes to o/cing.
THGC's resident Asian and Graphics Forum's resident nVboy 😀

 

[pauldh]

Nforce chips are as good or better than intel

Actually wrong again. NF2 is great no doubt, but care to compare memory scores with i865/875? IMO all three are great.

NF3 is not at all up to par with NF2. Not in stability or class leading performance. Want the best A64 performance, it aint with Nvidia chipset dude. Gotta go VIA.

<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-06.html#nvidia_nforce3_bug" target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-06.html#nvidia_nforce3_bug</A>

"Nvidia: NForce-3 Bug

The extremely low AGP performance of the NForce3 can be clearly attributed to problems with the HyperTransport channel interface to the Northbridge. That is proven by the benchmark results and the performance differences of up to 33.2 percent. Details about this can be found in the benchmark section of this article.

Originally, Nvidia had planned to also integrate a SATA RAID controller in the Southbridge. Although the controller is included in the current NForce 3, Nvidia deactivated this feature. The reason was that error-free operation was not possible. For this reason, we decided to use additional boards based on the VIA K8T800 chipset.

Nvidia (Athlon 64 FX, or alternatively GeForce FX - related names) may be a more high-profile partner for AMD than VIA. However, we would point out that VIA, with the K8T800 chipset, currently offers a clearly better solution for the Athlon 64."

Another quote:
"The shortcomings of the Nvidia NForce-3 chipset are clearly and abundantly evident!"

And furthermore, look at the performance numbers here. Not just Quake3, but look at all of them, read the whole review (again). P4's not looking too shabby, are they.

<A HREF="http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-22.html" target="_new">http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030923/athlon_64-22.html</A>

or here is a review from this year after the A64 3400+ launch.

<A HREF="http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040106/athlon64_3400-05.html" target="_new">http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040106/athlon64_3400-05.html</A>


And before posting any more Crap Like A-XP= P-4C, or even A64 > P4C hands down, why not read this summary.
<A HREF="http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040106/athlon64_3400-35.html" target="_new">http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040106/athlon64_3400-35.html</A>


Let's face it fanboys, the P4's are still looking very good against A64. Once 64 bit aps come into play, yes things might/should change. And the fact that P4-2.8C does as well against A64 3200+, and is $100 cheaper. Only a true AMD Fanboy won't admit the P4-C's are still a valid option. Saying nothing is needed between XP2500+ and A64 3000+ is like saying the only video cards we need is Ti4200 and FX5900U. Makes no sense at all. Especially with R9600 pro and 9800 pro's available.

OH yes, and by the way, i865/875 > NF3 hands down.

Also, I laugh at all of you who snag up early A64 mobos/chips. Futureproofing yourselves so you think without considering how much better A64 mobos will soon be. How well are the new PCI-express Video cards going to run in your current "set for the 64 bit revolution future" A64 systems. I'll keep enjoying my IS7/2.6C and NF7/Mobile XP2500+ systems and once A64 really makes sense, i'll let you know what you could have had. If you really want to be ready for the future, you should have waited for socket 939 dudes. You may think your 64 bit cpu will be the king for some time to come, just wait and see what systems during the summer will be doing.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[endyen]

Just go to your own clicky and compare the xp scores in Sandra, and the P4c scores in Sandra with your own scores in Sandra. Then tell me that it is consistant. If the P4c can win on it's own, why rig it? If the other scores are as hugly cheats, where does that leave you? Dont give me any lies until you have at least looked and thought about it.

Not accusing you of lying I mean benchmarks that are designed to favour Intel.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by endyen on 03/12/04 00:01 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Crashman]

Unless you actually wanted a good motherboard, then A64 isn't an option right now.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[P4Man]

you keep saying that, but I still have to read any issues whatsoever with VIA K8T800 if you're not a heavy duty overclocker. I understand some are traumatised by prior experiences, but I think its time to put our KT133 experiences behind us now.. every VIA chipset since the KT266A has been decent, getting better with every respin. We're not judging the 875 on prior experiences with the i820 or 815 either.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[endyen]

My question is why do people dismiss the Nforce 3 solution. Certainly the via chip won the race, with it's faster hyper transport. So what! The 800 mhz hypertransport is not needed. The nforce boards are great. They are more than enough to keep you in the game. What could you actually do with the via ht that you could not do as fast on the nforce boards? It's like the 875 and 865 chipsets. The 875 may be faster, but it doesn't always work that way.

 

[Crashman]

You still have to use patched drivers with a lot of cards on VIA chipset boards. Most drivers have been patched for YEARS, but why should any company have to make chipset-specific patches?

i820 was a great chipset. MTH was an add on part buyers forced. RDRAM i820 boards didn't have a MTH. i815 was also a great chipset.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[P4Man]

"Patched drivers" ? What are you talking about ? You're not referring to the ancient soundblaster live/VIA PCI corruption bug are you ? AFAIK that was mostly a soundblaster problem where Creative did not adhere to the PCI specifications, not a via bug, even though it mostly only showed up with VIA chipsets. I would never recommend Creative for anything. Regardless, that was 2001. The issue has been solved for ages.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Crashman]

No, I'm refering to the "ancient" PCI latency bug that affected the Soundblaster Live (YES, it WAS VIA's fault), Aureal SQ2500, Diamond MX300....a bunch of SCSI cards, etc etc etc etc forever. These things have all been "fixed" to work with VIA chipsets, or have been lost to the market.

Ancient? The bug exist to this day.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[P4Man]

I'd like to see any evidence the PCI latency "bug" in the 686B South Bridge still exists today. I put bug between quotes, because what I recall, motherboard vendors where to blame. AKAIK, these issues have been resolved since the VT8237 southbridge, and all current KT400/600/880 and K8 chipsets are completely unaffected. I'm not a big VIA fan myselve having owned Apollo Pro133, KT133 and KT133A mainboards, but I have not seen or heard of a single issue with VIA's latest chipsets, especially their K8 chipsets. Have you ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[baldurga]

Agree that currently AMD is the best bang for the buck. In fact, I would say not mobile 2500+ but mobile 2400+, that costs LESS than $80!

An about a reason for building Intel, I suppose people that want to get insane Ghz, very powerfull system, watercooled, will go for Intel. AFAIK AMD64 doesn't overclock very far, about 10%, while Intel can go close to 4Ghz.

Anyway, I haven't test any of these posibilities, I'm a budget buyer!


Still looking for a <b>good online retailer</b> in Spain :frown:

 

[Crashman]

The last chipset I've seen anyone use BIOS hacks to allow an MX300 to work on was the KT400.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[Crashman]

I don't know why I even bother to discuss this stuff with you, it's obvious that you support an Anti-American company. If they had been located in the U.S. the CEO would be in prison by now.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[ytoledano]

There's a reason noone mentioned. Prices outside the US/UK are a bit more expensive for Intel and a lot more expensive for AMD. Same goes for Nvidia being a little more expensive and ATI being a lot more expensive.
I know where I live you can get a P4 3.2C for 396$, 3.0C at 316$, A64 3000+ at 361$ and A64 3200+ at 439$ (3.2EE at 1300$, but that's besides the point). I think when these are the prices, AMD doesn't offer more value than Intel, and I haven't mentioned the mobos which are more expensive for A64 too.

<b>Buying Dell for tech-support is like buying Playboy for the articles.</b>

 

[P4Man]

LOL ! It had not even occured to me VIA was not American, and other chipset manufacturers would. Seriously, I don't even know if ALI, ATI or SIS are American, and I don't care *whatsoever*.. sheesh. well, maybe it explains your attitude, I'm not sure..

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[pauldh]

Crash is right again. It was Via's fault, and it wasn't "solved" even with the KT400. But yes, KT266A, KT333, KT400 were far superior to KT133.

KT133 has caused me more headaches than all other chipsets combined. Almost every KT133 system I sold eventually came back to bite me. One current problem is on 2 seperate customers machines with KT133 chipsets, they crash when trying to burn CD's. One worked fine burning Cd's for a year, but now is crashing. The other had been later upgraded, and after putting 3 different CD-RW's in it and changing the power supply, it still couldn't consistently burn a CD. I have only seen this in KT133's though. I'm on a KT266A here now that has been a Gem for me day in and day out, running Win XP even with my original SB Live! in it. But even so, I sure wish it was an NF2.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[darko21]

Re: Crash is right again.

I think his original post states.....
"Unless you actually wanted a good motherboard, then A64 isn't an option right now."

This is wrong again....

Via has had issues in the past so has intel yet if you cannot bring yourself to buy via (seeeing their are no isuses today) their are other choices out there.
seems like he's always looking for an excuse to avoid a64.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.

 

[kinney]

So basically what you are saying is that if you really want an inferior processor but must have hyperthreading than intel is the way to go?

I dont need HT, I am just looking for clarification.

I'd agree, 2500 (mobile and not) are the best deal available. With A64 ruling top end. I just wanted to see if intel had any merits at all left.

Its nice to see at least that if Intel is going to have its faced rubbed in the mud, their slower architechure to begin with will overclock nicely!
I wondered how people who bought that crap slept at night.

----
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Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR

 

[Crashman]

VIA breaks laws that we uphold with great esteem here, laws which are part of our culture, laws that make us "american". They steal ALL there new technology (Americans think of themselves as inovators) and use strong arm tactics to block other companies from doing business (WE'VE had anti-trust laws on the books for over 100 years to prevent that). Basically American culture is capitalistic at heart, where restrictions are in place only to keep the market competitave. VIA's anti-competitave practices would be felonious here.

Who else do you see like that, ALi? SiS? Even nVidia stops short of what Americans consider "breaking the law" most of the time. Meanwhile there's VIA, circumventing the law so they can push crap into the market while putting the companies who actually designed that technology out of business.

The American dream: You do something well, you get rich. That doesn't include comitting crimes well, it's supposed to involve more effort, more integrety. VIA's dream: Someone else does something well, you steal it from them and use it to put them out of business.

This type of crime has been around forever, it's definately not American. It might be human, but only in the basist of human nature, greed, kill them before they kill me, etc. That might go over well in certain undeveloped contries, or even Tiawan, but Americans are above that sort of thing.

VIA has cost me hundreds of hours of service work, as a technician. Just last night I re-assembled a system that was 3 years old, and fought the thing for 2 hours trying to figure out what it's problem with RAM was, then remembered "Doh, do a BIOS update" and behold, the RAM problems went away, and the BIOS update only worked because it contained a BIOS patch for the VIA memory controller. BTW, all those lost hours are MONEY.

VIA has also hurt my reputation as a seller. I sold a couple systems which became unstable, and because they were new the BIOS patches weren't available yet. Those systems were eventually fixed, but by that time I'd lost several sales (a couple returns, and word of mouth causing lost sales). Sure eventually the systems were fixed and resold, but I could have made MORE money had I sold a couple more systems, rather than reselling the rehashed trash.

OK, so even if VIA wasn't a rotten company, I've lost enough money because of them that I'll never do business with them. Ever. And I'd rather see you die than buy one of their products.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[Crashman]

I know you've read my other post in other places, so you prove you're either a liar or idiot once again.

1.) The SiS 755 chipset has none of the memory issues of the K8whatever, Anandtech says it's the best chipset. But the "best" board to use it is the cheapo ECS 755-A2. Companies such as Asus and DFI promised high end 755 boards, but never delivered.
2.) OCWorkbench claims superiority of the Soyo K8USA, which uses an ALi chipset. But I'm not familiar enough with it to give it a solid reputation, I've had problems with Soyo, and ALi has a spotty record, so I'll have to watch that one.
3.) nVidia recently released the nForce3 250 chipset. But I still don't see any on the market.

You've heard me say those things over and over. So when you say I'm looking for an excuse to avoid the A64, you're talking out the wrong end. Rather, I'm saying that we're better off WAITING until boardmakers offer us a decent board.

It's not like I have anything against AMD, the nForce2 chipsets are great and the XP2500+ is a cheap CPU that can be overclocked to XP3200+ speeds.

With all the GARBAGE platforms on the market right now for the A64, Intel having problems with the Prescott, etc, a builder would be well advised to take the value rout and go with an XP2500+ on an nForce2 400/Ultra400 platform.

This is wrong again....

Again I see you're talking out your arse, you know what I'm saying is true.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[darko21]

LOL you are like a spoilt kid defending his favorite toy. Crash you sound like a broken record always slagging AMD and VIA. If you don't like one of them that's fine but do we need to hear it again and again. I mean just how many times have you bashed amd in the past. Now amd has the athlon64 and you have a hard time accepting it. So you say the chip is ok but nothing but junk platforms for it. So avoid this cpu for now.

Let me spell this out for you crash. I Don't like you. You are too biased when it comes to AMD. Crash your opinions on Via are just that opinions I have heard nothing wrong with the current Via boards. As a matter of fact I have heard nothing bad of Via in quite a while. Since you no longer use Via your opinion is no longer relevant.

What's wrong with nforce3 150 any way (the 800 600 issue) it still cleans up against a simmalar intel system. Or is it because the Via system has a slight performance lead. (I hope you see the humour in that)

Then there are other chipsets for the athlon64


Re: The SiS 755 chipset has none of the memory issues of the K8whatever, Anandtech says it's the best chipset. But the "best" board to use it is the cheapo ECS 755-A2. Companies such as Asus and DFI promised high end 755 boards, but never delivered.

Why are they not high end no built in raid or advanced apu?


Re: OCWorkbench claims superiority of the Soyo K8USA, which uses an ALi chipset. But I'm not familiar enough with it to give it a solid reputation, I've had problems with Soyo, and ALi has a spotty record, so I'll have to watch that one.

You might want to refrase "I'm not familiar enough with it to give it a solid reputation" Just because you say somthing don't make it so. Your ego and bias gets the better of you too often. Remember Omid states lots of things it don't make it so.

Re: It's not like I have anything against AMD, the nForce2 chipsets are great and the XP2500+ is a cheap CPU that can be overclocked to XP3200+ speeds.

Yup latley you say you can look to amd in the low end segment.


Re: Again I see you're talking out your arse, you know what I'm saying is true.

I know you believe your opinions. Too bad you are not smart enough to see your own bias cloulding your opinions you claim as fact.


If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.

 

[Crashman]

LOL you are like a spoilt kid defending his favorite toy

No, you're like an idiot looking for a reason to cry foul

Crash you sound like a broken record always slagging AMD

No, you sound like an idiot always promoting junk platforms, I for one LIKE AMD.

Let me spell this out for you crash.

Considering the lack of merit in your arguments, I'm surprised you CAN spell anything out.

I Don't like you.

That's because you know you can't win

You are too biased when it comes to AMD.

You mean to imply that I'm biased AGAINST AMD? Because I've been pushing AMD for 3 months now. Again your argument lacks merit.

Crash your opinions on Via are just that opinions

I'm a system builder, when I say I've lost time to issues with VIA chipsets, that's not an opinion. Time is factual. When I say that VIA chipsets aren't compatable with a bunch of older drivers, that's also a fact. You need to learn that everything YOU say is an opinion, but all my "opinions" have a reasonable number of FACTS behind them.

Since you no longer use Via your opinion is no longer relevant

Wrong again, I still repair systems, I just ran into another system full of BIOS problems, the update was easy...and was dated 2 years after the board was produced.

What's wrong with nforce3 150 any way (the 800 600 issue)

I think you answered you own question.

Or is it because the Via system has a slight performance lead.

So does SiS and ALi, why do you defend VIA instead of supporting something better?

Why are they not high end no built in raid or advanced apu?

ECS is an economy board maker, they don't put advanced features on their boards that enthusiast like, ie built in RAID and advanced overclocking options. ECS also has a somewhat spotty quality control record.

solid reputation

Typo, I meant recommendation, and was thinking of their reputation, hence the word swap

Just because you say somthing don't make it so.

I only say things when they already ARE so. Otherwise I would say it was an opinion.

Your ego and bias gets the better of you too often

If your father had a habit of punching you every so often, without warning, you'd eventually get to the point where you tried to avoid him. You'd duck whenever you saw him come around. And you can't understand why I don't like VIA?

Yup latley you say you can look to amd in the low end segment.

XP2500+ is midrange, and everybody deserves a good price. You called it low-end, now who's biased?

Too bad you are not smart enough to see your own bias cloulding your opinions you claim as fact.

Check the news, VIA stealing technology is a fact, they get nabbed every few months. Or was it the time I spent fixing these problems, did you consider that an opinion? Time can be counted in hours, so it's quantitive, not qualitive. Or was it the PCI bug I mentioned? I can't proove it exist on any newer chipset than the KT400, because I don't know of anyone who's tried affected hardware on any newer chipset. But I let everyone know that from the outset. The KT400 is recent enough to assume the problem was never fixed, instead drivers for individual cards were patched.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[P4Man]

> I've lost enough money because of them that I'll never do
>business with them. Ever. And I'd rather see you die than
>buy one of their products.

Sheesh man, chill out. You got issues dude, getting all wind up over a frigging piece of silicon. I bet you're hardly exagerating about the dying part either. Maybe you want to keep a shotgun in your store for whenever someone asks for VIA board ?

You know, there is not a whole lot of technical stuff I learn here on THGC, but people like you, Kinney, RC,.. sure give me another perspective on "Americans". You guys and your lack of perspective scare me, honestly.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Xeon]

You tell em Crash!!!

Xeon

<font color=orange>Scratch Here To Reveal Prize</font color=orange>

 

[pauldh]

No actually Kinney, given the current motherboard choices, and the fact that Intel 800 bus chips perform very well around the board, I am saying right now I feel P4 2.8C and $40 for a better video card is a much better choice than A64 3000+. Did you look at all the performance numbers I linked to? A64 will make more sense if superior socket 939 boards were available. Right now A64 makes little sense to me unless you don't care about getting a stable, true enthusiast mobo, and all you do is play games. That is what i am saying. Yes, and to repeat it once again, NF2 XP2500+ still great value.

Basically, you can buy a great NF2 mobo and a cheap OC XP2500+ knowing you are getting the best of the whole Athlon XP chipset/performance/value. Or, You can buy a tested and true I865pe, I875p mobo, knowing your getting the best P4 boards/ performance ever made, or you can be early to jump on A64, settling for a mediocre motherboard/chipset just to game a little faster and claim you have the best chip. But again, buy buying A64 now, you are guaranteeing other people will soon have much better 64 bit solutions than yourself, with more enthusiast friendly features, more future features like PCIe, better performance, come socket 939.

Again, I laugh at the early A64 owners who think they are so set for the future. But I am thankful for them as I'm glad AMD is getting revenue off there fanboyism. I want AMD to make a profit and keep challenging Intel for years to come. Thanks guys for help making that possible so i can save my $$$ for a better 64-bit solution. :lol: :lol: :lol:



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt