Intel's Future Chips: News, Rumours & Reviews

[juanrga]

Uhm... This will be an interesting dilemma to have now... Go for the "de-facto" i5 as gaming king or move that to the i7...

Given the trend and all of the leverage the extra cores have given the -E moar-core sibling in a lot of titles, the i7 might be the new "value" king, even being way more expensive? Haha, Intel better play this one carefully. The next i7 from mainstream might eat part of the entry HEDT market, making the 7820X a stupid and useless stopgap.

The current gaming king is the i7-7700k. The new gaming king will be the i7-8700k.

The 7820X is a 8-core. I doubt any gamer was doubting between the 7820X and the i7 8700k. The general rule is

Gamers --> CFL
Pros --> SKL-X

 

[-Fran-]

Uhm... This will be an interesting dilemma to have now... Go for the "de-facto" i5 as gaming king or move that to the i7...

Given the trend and all of the leverage the extra cores have given the -E moar-core sibling in a lot of titles, the i7 might be the new "value" king, even being way more expensive? Haha, Intel better play this one carefully. The next i7 from mainstream might eat part of the entry HEDT market, making the 7820X a stupid and useless stopgap.

The current gaming king is the i7-7700k. The new gaming king will be the i7-8700k.

The 7820X is a 8-core. I doubt any gamer was doubting between the 7820X and the i7 8700k. The general rule is

Gamers --> CFL
Pros --> SKL-X

You do realize that the 7820X is just the 7700K in another socket, right?

Although I don't disagree, the stupid nitpick is, well, stupid.

So you think the 8700K is going to do nothing to Intel's entry HEDT stuff?

Cheers!

 

[Gon Freecss]

Uhm... This will be an interesting dilemma to have now... Go for the "de-facto" i5 as gaming king or move that to the i7...

Given the trend and all of the leverage the extra cores have given the -E moar-core sibling in a lot of titles, the i7 might be the new "value" king, even being way more expensive? Haha, Intel better play this one carefully. The next i7 from mainstream might eat part of the entry HEDT market, making the 7820X a stupid and useless stopgap.

The current gaming king is the i7-7700k. The new gaming king will be the i7-8700k.

The 7820X is a 8-core. I doubt any gamer was doubting between the 7820X and the i7 8700k. The general rule is

Gamers --> CFL
Pros --> SKL-X

You do realize that the 7820X is just the 7700K in another socket, right?

Although I don't disagree, the stupid nitpick is, well, stupid.

So you think the 8700K is going to do nothing to Intel's entry HEDT stuff?

Cheers!

You're confusing the 7820X with the 7740X. The former is an 8 core Skylake-X chip, and the latter is a 4 core Kaby Lake-X chip.

 

[goldstone77]

There was plethora of negative responses Skylake-X from reviewers and the enthusiast community as a whole! From pricing, reductions of PCI-E lanes, VROC NVME RAID dongles, the entire value structure, and over heating issues with huge power consumption along with a terribly rushed launch destroyed Skylake-X. Also, the inclusion of the i5 and i7 CPU's to Intel's the HEDT line up. Skylake-X is the worst blunder in recent Intel History. Now, mainstream is where Intel has a big chance to shine bright again with the 8600K, which I suspect will be a big success with gamers. They get the 2 more cores when Intel really needs right now to relieve issues with i5 and i7 stuttering in some games. This will allow better smoother game play vs. the multitude of programs and threads running in the background destroying consistent performance. This will also help with streaming quality which Ryzen has just been better at core for core 1800X vs 6900K. Honestly, 6 cores 6 threads is what we have needed for 2 or 3 years.

 

[-Fran-]

Uhm... This will be an interesting dilemma to have now... Go for the "de-facto" i5 as gaming king or move that to the i7...

Given the trend and all of the leverage the extra cores have given the -E moar-core sibling in a lot of titles, the i7 might be the new "value" king, even being way more expensive? Haha, Intel better play this one carefully. The next i7 from mainstream might eat part of the entry HEDT market, making the 7820X a stupid and useless stopgap.

The current gaming king is the i7-7700k. The new gaming king will be the i7-8700k.

The 7820X is a 8-core. I doubt any gamer was doubting between the 7820X and the i7 8700k. The general rule is

Gamers --> CFL
Pros --> SKL-X

You do realize that the 7820X is just the 7700K in another socket, right?

Although I don't disagree, the stupid nitpick is, well, stupid.

So you think the 8700K is going to do nothing to Intel's entry HEDT stuff?

Cheers!

You're confusing the 7820X with the 7740X. The former is an 8 core Skylake-X chip, and the latter is a 4 core Kaby Lake-X chip.

Burp. You're absolutely right. I was thinking about the 7740X all the time.

Cheers!

 

[juanrga]

Uhm... This will be an interesting dilemma to have now... Go for the "de-facto" i5 as gaming king or move that to the i7...

Given the trend and all of the leverage the extra cores have given the -E moar-core sibling in a lot of titles, the i7 might be the new "value" king, even being way more expensive? Haha, Intel better play this one carefully. The next i7 from mainstream might eat part of the entry HEDT market, making the 7820X a stupid and useless stopgap.

The current gaming king is the i7-7700k. The new gaming king will be the i7-8700k.

The 7820X is a 8-core. I doubt any gamer was doubting between the 7820X and the i7 8700k. The general rule is

Gamers --> CFL
Pros --> SKL-X

You do realize that the 7820X is just the 7700K in another socket, right?

Although I don't disagree, the stupid nitpick is, well, stupid.

So you think the 8700K is going to do nothing to Intel's entry HEDT stuff?

The 7820X is a 8-core Skylake-X.
The 7700k is a 4-core Kabylake.

I would replace "nothing" by "minimal impact", because the targets are different. One chip is for gamers the other isn't.

 

[juanrga]

There was plethora of negative responses Skylake-X from reviewers and the enthusiast community as a whole! From pricing, reductions of PCI-E lanes, VROC NVME RAID dongles, the entire value structure, and over heating issues with huge power consumption along with a terribly rushed launch destroyed Skylake-X. Also, the inclusion of the i5 and i7 CPU's to Intel's the HEDT line up. Skylake-X is the worst blunder in recent Intel History. Now, mainstream is where Intel has a big chance to shine bright again with the 8600K, which I suspect will be a big success with gamers. They get the 2 more cores when Intel really needs right now to relieve issues with i5 and i7 stuttering in some games. This will allow better smoother game play vs. the multitude of programs and threads running in the background destroying consistent performance. This will also help with streaming quality which Ryzen has just been better at core for core 1800X vs 6900K. Honestly, 6 cores 6 threads is what we have needed for 2 or 3 years.

And despite all the biased reviews and the bad press, the SKL-X line is selling well. Even the mindfactory store that everyone talks has sold more units of the SKL-X line than of TR:

At Mindfactory 175 TR chips have been sold compared to 1040 SKL-X.

This proves that the typical target user cannot be fooled easily. And customers of SKL-X chips are all very happy with their purchase.

I agree that the inclusion of the i5 and i7 CPU's to Intel's the HEDT line up is nonsensical. But those aren't Skylake-X models.

 

[jimmysmitty]

I think it's more interesting to see how the % and the arrows link to each other.

ST/MT performance

I'm more curious about the $$$ price tag on these new processors!

Similar to current line.

If they pull off $250-350 for the 6 cores they will be in much better shape than they are in now in terms of price to performance competition until next generation Ryzen.

What the Zen v2? I want to see what they will do minus slight enhancements and maybe slightly better stock clocks. From what I have seen on Zen and Vega it doesn't look like high clocks will be around so long as they use the 14nm they have which is what, 2019 for 7nm if all goes well?

Honestly, at this point? I'm planning on holding on to my 2600k until post-Core architecture. Which I figure will be when Intel moves to 7nm (since they kinda have to respond to AMD now). Of course, that's about 4 years from now...

Seriously, there's a chance my 2600k makes it a DECADE. :/

I'm starting to think the same. Nothing comes close to it at 4.6Ghz that is actually worth upgrading to. Platform included, the Z77 has been a good chipset and doesn't really have anything to envy new platforms. M.2 would be the only thing, but then again, I have 2 HDDs in raid 0, 1 HDD for storage and 2 SSDs for game duty, so I don't see how much performance I can get out of a new platform (from either camp, mind you).

I might wait to see what Zen 2 brings to the table and how Intel answers to that.

Cheers!

As long as you have a slot free, you could still do M.2 with a PCI-E adapter.

Minus booting. I am pretty sure the first chipset that supports PCIe and NVMe booting is the Z97.

There was plethora of negative responses Skylake-X from reviewers and the enthusiast community as a whole! From pricing, reductions of PCI-E lanes, VROC NVME RAID dongles, the entire value structure, and over heating issues with huge power consumption along with a terribly rushed launch destroyed Skylake-X. Also, the inclusion of the i5 and i7 CPU's to Intel's the HEDT line up. Skylake-X is the worst blunder in recent Intel History. Now, mainstream is where Intel has a big chance to shine bright again with the 8600K, which I suspect will be a big success with gamers. They get the 2 more cores when Intel really needs right now to relieve issues with i5 and i7 stuttering in some games. This will allow better smoother game play vs. the multitude of programs and threads running in the background destroying consistent performance. This will also help with streaming quality which Ryzen has just been better at core for core 1800X vs 6900K. Honestly, 6 cores 6 threads is what we have needed for 2 or 3 years.

Do you have any proof that the 1800X is better for streaming than the 6900K? I would assume with similar thread counts they should perform similarly minus IPC advantages etc.

 

[8350rocks]

I think it's more interesting to see how the % and the arrows link to each other.

ST/MT performance

I'm more curious about the $$$ price tag on these new processors!

Similar to current line.

If they pull off $250-350 for the 6 cores they will be in much better shape than they are in now in terms of price to performance competition until next generation Ryzen.

What the Zen v2? I want to see what they will do minus slight enhancements and maybe slightly better stock clocks. From what I have seen on Zen and Vega it doesn't look like high clocks will be around so long as they use the 14nm they have which is what, 2019 for 7nm if all goes well?

Honestly, at this point? I'm planning on holding on to my 2600k until post-Core architecture. Which I figure will be when Intel moves to 7nm (since they kinda have to respond to AMD now). Of course, that's about 4 years from now...

Seriously, there's a chance my 2600k makes it a DECADE. :/

I'm starting to think the same. Nothing comes close to it at 4.6Ghz that is actually worth upgrading to. Platform included, the Z77 has been a good chipset and doesn't really have anything to envy new platforms. M.2 would be the only thing, but then again, I have 2 HDDs in raid 0, 1 HDD for storage and 2 SSDs for game duty, so I don't see how much performance I can get out of a new platform (from either camp, mind you).

I might wait to see what Zen 2 brings to the table and how Intel answers to that.

Cheers!

As long as you have a slot free, you could still do M.2 with a PCI-E adapter.

Minus booting. I am pretty sure the first chipset that supports PCIe and NVMe booting is the Z97.

There was plethora of negative responses Skylake-X from reviewers and the enthusiast community as a whole! From pricing, reductions of PCI-E lanes, VROC NVME RAID dongles, the entire value structure, and over heating issues with huge power consumption along with a terribly rushed launch destroyed Skylake-X. Also, the inclusion of the i5 and i7 CPU's to Intel's the HEDT line up. Skylake-X is the worst blunder in recent Intel History. Now, mainstream is where Intel has a big chance to shine bright again with the 8600K, which I suspect will be a big success with gamers. They get the 2 more cores when Intel really needs right now to relieve issues with i5 and i7 stuttering in some games. This will allow better smoother game play vs. the multitude of programs and threads running in the background destroying consistent performance. This will also help with streaming quality which Ryzen has just been better at core for core 1800X vs 6900K. Honestly, 6 cores 6 threads is what we have needed for 2 or 3 years.

Do you have any proof that the 1800X is better for streaming than the 6900K? I would assume with similar thread counts they should perform similarly minus IPC advantages etc.

Zen2 tapes out this year on 7nm, launch in 2018

Threadripper supports native NVMe RAID 0/1/10

 

[goldstone77]

If they pull off $250-350 for the 6 cores they will be in much better shape than they are in now in terms of price to performance competition until next generation Ryzen.

What the Zen v2? I want to see what they will do minus slight enhancements and maybe slightly better stock clocks. From what I have seen on Zen and Vega it doesn't look like high clocks will be around so long as they use the 14nm they have which is what, 2019 for 7nm if all goes well?

First question:
I was talking about the current 6 and 8 core line up vs. the 4 core Intel.
Second question: it's a 2 parter
1. There are tradeoffs that can be made in electrostatics, leakage, pattern, manufacturability and transistor performance. And how quantum effects impact FinFET designs in terms of fin width, fin height and anything that impacts bandgap. Also, they are looking into packaging on top of an interposer. So, there are many ways to improve upon an existing node, and future nodes. Just increasing electrostatics can increase transistor performance by 20%. Electrostatics is how they leverage low performance and high performance in processors. So, we could expect to see and increase in frequency and IPC just from electrostatics.

2. From GlobalFoundries claims and news reports they appear to be on schedule. Now the speculation. It would be possible for them to release 7nm sometime in the 2nd half of 2018. If you look at their road map the next server processor 7nm. The function of their near 99% yield efficiency come from the fact that they use Ryzen 8 core parts to create server parts. Defective CPU's are binned into R5 and R3 lines. If they can start selling 7nm second half of 2018 will they put out a gap filler 14+? They have said they would, so we can assume they will, but I doubt that will be going into servers. Also, Navi is suppose to be released next year on 7nm.

Back to the AMD thing. Given that the new AMD Ryzen architecture was launched on 14nm in Q1 2017, it should be reasonable to predict that AMD could refresh Ryzen on 7nm in the second half of 2018 putting AMD 7nm just six months behind Intel 10nm. I certainly hope this is the case because I really want to see how Intel PR spins that one!

Click here for link

GLOBALFOUNDRIES 7LP
"As Dan Nenni previously discussed in his GlobalFoundries 7nm and EUV Update! blog 7LP (Leading Performance) will offer a greater than 40% performance improvement relative to 14nm or greater than 60% lower power. Area scaling will be approximately 2x and the die cost reduction will be greater than 30%, with greater than 45% in target segments. Initial customer products on 7LP are expected to launch in the first half of 2018 with volume production in the second half of 2018.

GLOBALFOUNDRIES on Track to Deliver Leading-Performance 7nm FinFET Technology
Jun 13, 2017

In September 2016, GF announced plans to develop its own 7nm FinFET technology leveraging the company’s unmatched heritage of manufacturing high-performance chips. Thanks to additional improvements at both the transistor and process levels, the 7LP technology is exceeding initial performance targets and expected to deliver greater than 40 percent more processing power and twice the area scaling than the previous 14nm FinFET technology. The technology is now ready for customer designs at the company’s leading-edge Fab 8 facility in Saratoga County, N.Y.

When: September 20th 2017
Where: Hyatt Regency Santa Clara
Speaker
Michael Mendicino, Senior Director, Leading-Edge Product Management, GLOBALFOUNDRIES

1:00-1:30

Abstract
High-performance computing and premium mobile markets continue to drive adoption of leading-edge FinFET technology, and additional segments such as AR/VR, deep learning, and automotive CPU are accelerating node migration.

GF’s leading-edge product offerings are ideally suited for those needing maximum computing performance within a given power envelope and at a balanced cost. 14LPP FinFET is a complete, fully-enabled platform in high volume manufacturing with excellent yield and Performance/Power/Area (PPA). And, 7LP technology is in development with risk production next year.

It leverages the solid foundation of 14nm and delivers more than twice the logic and SRAM density, with >40% performance boost or >60% total power reduction, compared to 14nm foundry FinFET offerings. GF is planning a seamless phase-in of EUV and additional platform extensions including performance boost and automotive, similar to 14nm FinFET.

Location
Magnolia (first floor)

Greater than 40% performance improvement relative to 14nm, or greater than 60% lower power. We will have to see which direction they take it. 7LP(LP stands for Leading-Performance not low power) if that is any indication which direction they are taking this next node.

There was plethora of negative responses Skylake-X from reviewers and the enthusiast community as a whole! From pricing, reductions of PCI-E lanes, VROC NVME RAID dongles, the entire value structure, and over heating issues with huge power consumption along with a terribly rushed launch destroyed Skylake-X. Also, the inclusion of the i5 and i7 CPU's to Intel's the HEDT line up. Skylake-X is the worst blunder in recent Intel History. Now, mainstream is where Intel has a big chance to shine bright again with the 8600K, which I suspect will be a big success with gamers. They get the 2 more cores when Intel really needs right now to relieve issues with i5 and i7 stuttering in some games. This will allow better smoother game play vs. the multitude of programs and threads running in the background destroying consistent performance. This will also help with streaming quality which Ryzen has just been better at core for core 1800X vs 6900K. Honestly, 6 cores 6 threads is what we have needed for 2 or 3 years.

Do you have any proof that the 1800X is better for streaming than the 6900K? I would assume with similar thread counts they should perform similarly minus IPC advantages etc.

Ryzen is THE BEST CPU for Game Streaming? - $h!t Manufacturers Say Ep. 2
Linus Tech Tips
Published on Apr 6, 2017
Is Ryzen REALLY the best consumer CPU option for video encoding and game streaming? Let's find out!
[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jludqTnPpnU&ab_channel=LinusTechTips"][/video]
4:37 Hardware Specs

 

[goldstone77]

I ran across this investor meeting product slide, and I want to share a few things.
Click here for a like to whole slide in PDF.

You can see the size of processors reducing in size. Look at 32nm down to 5nm. Now look at the two Advancing Process Technology Lowers Costs. They are significantly reducing the overall cost even though process R&D cost drastically increased. It went up 20% higher than the 10% historically. But would have to rise another 160% for them to break even!!! In other words they have been consistently saving billions of dollars per node shrink, and still charging us the same price or higher for years! Meanwhile, you can buy a 65" 4k UHD for $556 at Walmart. Prices on other electronic devices have significantly dropped and what we get for our money has significantly increased. Look at The ways to test the model: Unit Demand Changes. It shows a continuous 25% decrease in demand over 10 years would have to occur to offset economic scaling benefits. Next slide Three ways to test the Model: R&D Cost Increases. They learned the longer they sit in a node and create generational improvements the more money they save in R&D. Imagine what would happen if Intel didn't have a competitor. Look at the last ~10 years 4 core processors with 5% performance improvements. How many generations re-branded processors with higher base clocks claiming performance improvements? Intel is laughing all the way to the bank! I own 3 computers and they all have Intel processors. Since manufacturing is so cheap for them now they can easily offer us a couple extra cores at the same price they have been charging us for 2 and 4, and still maintain their profit margins without blinking! We all better hope 7nm Ryzen is going to be the processor it looks like it's going to be, because we need competition to drive prices down to where they should be!

Click here for Intel's Annual Income Statement.

 

[Gon Freecss]

The 6900K is absolutely better at streaming.

 

[juanrga]

Zen2 tapes out this year on 7nm, launch in 2018

Threadripper supports native NVMe RAID 0/1/10

Next year is Pinnacle Ridge, which uses Zen. Zen2 is a 2019 product.

Threadripper NVMe RAID support is broken.

 

[juanrga]

If they pull off $250-350 for the 6 cores they will be in much better shape than they are in now in terms of price to performance competition until next generation Ryzen.

What the Zen v2? I want to see what they will do minus slight enhancements and maybe slightly better stock clocks. From what I have seen on Zen and Vega it doesn't look like high clocks will be around so long as they use the 14nm they have which is what, 2019 for 7nm if all goes well?

First question:
I was talking about the current 6 and 8 core line up vs. the 4 core Intel.
Second question: it's a 2 parter
1. There are tradeoffs that can be made in electrostatics, leakage, pattern, manufacturability and transistor performance. And how quantum effects impact FinFET designs in terms of fin width, fin height and anything that impacts bandgap. Also, they are looking into packaging on top of an interposer. So, there are many ways to improve upon an existing node, and future nodes. Just increasing electrostatics can increase transistor performance by 20%. Electrostatics is how they leverage low performance and high performance in processors. So, we could expect to see and increase in frequency and IPC just from electrostatics.

2. From GlobalFoundries claims and news reports they appear to be on schedule. Now the speculation. It would be possible for them to release 7nm sometime in the 2nd half of 2018. If you look at their road map the next server processor 7nm. The function of their near 99% yield efficiency come from the fact that they use Ryzen 8 core parts to create server parts. Defective CPU's are binned into R5 and R3 lines. If they can start selling 7nm second half of 2018 will they put out a gap filler 14+? They have said they would, so we can assume they will, but I doubt that will be going into servers. Also, Navi is suppose to be released next year on 7nm.

Back to the AMD thing. Given that the new AMD Ryzen architecture was launched on 14nm in Q1 2017, it should be reasonable to predict that AMD could refresh Ryzen on 7nm in the second half of 2018 putting AMD 7nm just six months behind Intel 10nm. I certainly hope this is the case because I really want to see how Intel PR spins that one!

Click here for link

GLOBALFOUNDRIES 7LP
"As Dan Nenni previously discussed in his GlobalFoundries 7nm and EUV Update! blog 7LP (Leading Performance) will offer a greater than 40% performance improvement relative to 14nm or greater than 60% lower power. Area scaling will be approximately 2x and the die cost reduction will be greater than 30%, with greater than 45% in target segments. Initial customer products on 7LP are expected to launch in the first half of 2018 with volume production in the second half of 2018.

GLOBALFOUNDRIES on Track to Deliver Leading-Performance 7nm FinFET Technology
Jun 13, 2017

In September 2016, GF announced plans to develop its own 7nm FinFET technology leveraging the company’s unmatched heritage of manufacturing high-performance chips. Thanks to additional improvements at both the transistor and process levels, the 7LP technology is exceeding initial performance targets and expected to deliver greater than 40 percent more processing power and twice the area scaling than the previous 14nm FinFET technology. The technology is now ready for customer designs at the company’s leading-edge Fab 8 facility in Saratoga County, N.Y.

When: September 20th 2017
Where: Hyatt Regency Santa Clara
Speaker
Michael Mendicino, Senior Director, Leading-Edge Product Management, GLOBALFOUNDRIES

1:00-1:30

Abstract
High-performance computing and premium mobile markets continue to drive adoption of leading-edge FinFET technology, and additional segments such as AR/VR, deep learning, and automotive CPU are accelerating node migration.

GF’s leading-edge product offerings are ideally suited for those needing maximum computing performance within a given power envelope and at a balanced cost. 14LPP FinFET is a complete, fully-enabled platform in high volume manufacturing with excellent yield and Performance/Power/Area (PPA). And, 7LP technology is in development with risk production next year.

It leverages the solid foundation of 14nm and delivers more than twice the logic and SRAM density, with >40% performance boost or >60% total power reduction, compared to 14nm foundry FinFET offerings. GF is planning a seamless phase-in of EUV and additional platform extensions including performance boost and automotive, similar to 14nm FinFET.

Location
Magnolia (first floor)

Greater than 40% performance improvement relative to 14nm, or greater than 60% lower power. We will have to see which direction they take it. 7LP(LP stands for Leading-Performance not low power) if that is any indication which direction they are taking this next node.

There was plethora of negative responses Skylake-X from reviewers and the enthusiast community as a whole! From pricing, reductions of PCI-E lanes, VROC NVME RAID dongles, the entire value structure, and over heating issues with huge power consumption along with a terribly rushed launch destroyed Skylake-X. Also, the inclusion of the i5 and i7 CPU's to Intel's the HEDT line up. Skylake-X is the worst blunder in recent Intel History. Now, mainstream is where Intel has a big chance to shine bright again with the 8600K, which I suspect will be a big success with gamers. They get the 2 more cores when Intel really needs right now to relieve issues with i5 and i7 stuttering in some games. This will allow better smoother game play vs. the multitude of programs and threads running in the background destroying consistent performance. This will also help with streaming quality which Ryzen has just been better at core for core 1800X vs 6900K. Honestly, 6 cores 6 threads is what we have needed for 2 or 3 years.

Do you have any proof that the 1800X is better for streaming than the 6900K? I would assume with similar thread counts they should perform similarly minus IPC advantages etc.

Ryzen is THE BEST CPU for Game Streaming? - $h!t Manufacturers Say Ep. 2
Linus Tech Tips
Published on Apr 6, 2017
Is Ryzen REALLY the best consumer CPU option for video encoding and game streaming? Let's find out!
[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jludqTnPpnU&ab_channel=LinusTechTips"][/video]
4:37 Hardware Specs

From GlobalFoundries always appear to be on schedule, until, the delay or cancellations hapens. This has happenened in all nodes they have tried up to now. It happened with 10nm, 12nm, 14nm, 20nm, 28nm, 32nm, 45nm,...

AMD didn't say that 7nm comes in in 2018, neither server nor otherwise.

Navy doesn't mean anything. Polaris (14nm) was released before Zen (14nm).

The semiwiki quote ignores the roadmap for 2018. This quote is from same people that is hypping Glofo foundry and givnig incorrect info about Intel and TSMC foundries.

Those percentages given by Glofo marketing team are idealized improvements measured at the transistor level and ignore realities such as BEOS overheads.

There was plethora of negative responses Skylake-X from reviewers and the enthusiast community as a whole! From pricing, reductions of PCI-E lanes, VROC NVME RAID dongles, the entire value structure, and over heating issues with huge power consumption along with a terribly rushed launch destroyed Skylake-X. Also, the inclusion of the i5 and i7 CPU's to Intel's the HEDT line up. Skylake-X is the worst blunder in recent Intel History. Now, mainstream is where Intel has a big chance to shine bright again with the 8600K, which I suspect will be a big success with gamers. They get the 2 more cores when Intel really needs right now to relieve issues with i5 and i7 stuttering in some games. This will allow better smoother game play vs. the multitude of programs and threads running in the background destroying consistent performance. This will also help with streaming quality which Ryzen has just been better at core for core 1800X vs 6900K. Honestly, 6 cores 6 threads is what we have needed for 2 or 3 years.

Do you have any proof that the 1800X is better for streaming than the 6900K? I would assume with similar thread counts they should perform similarly minus IPC advantages etc.

Linus Tech Tips is kidding. The 6900k has better IPC, better memory support, and OC betters.

 

[aldaia]

Zen2 tapes out this year on 7nm, launch in 2018

Threadripper supports native NVMe RAID 0/1/10

Next year is Pinnacle Ridge, which uses Zen. Zen2 is a 2019 product.

Threadripper NVMe RAID support is broken.

NVMe RAID support is fine, what is not yet supported is bootable NVMe RAID, however that is going to change in a few days.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-1900-threadripper-tr4-ryzen,35360.html

the X399 platform launched without support for bootable NVMe RAID, but the company is adding support for RAID 0, 1, and 10 via firmware updates. You can build bootable RAID arrays of up to ten devices, and the upgrade is free.

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-nvme-raid-driver-threadripper-coming-september-25th_197500

One of the missing features when the AMD X399 platform launched was bootable NVMe RAID. AMD knew this was an issue and has managed to enable bootable NVMe RAID arrays in a driver update that is coming on September 25th.

On the x299 side you have to pay for anything other than Raid 0
http://techreport.com/news/32020/computex-2017-intel-unleashes-nvme-raid-for-x299

Support for RAID 0 NVMe arrays is free, but you have to shell out $99 for a physical VROC key to plug into the header to unlock RAID 1 and RAID 10. For RAID 5, there's a more expensive key (we heard both $199 and $299 are possible).

TLDR;
TR supports NVMe RAID
TR will support bootable NVMe RAID after September 25th
You have to shell out a few hundred bucks for NVMe RAID on x299

 

[YoAndy]

You have to be nuts to think ""the 1800x is better at streaming than the 6900k"", after Intel been better clock per clock with (better IPC) and higher overclock potential. 😉

 

[goldstone77]

There was plethora of negative responses Skylake-X from reviewers and the enthusiast community as a whole! From pricing, reductions of PCI-E lanes, VROC NVME RAID dongles, the entire value structure, and over heating issues with huge power consumption along with a terribly rushed launch destroyed Skylake-X. Also, the inclusion of the i5 and i7 CPU's to Intel's the HEDT line up. Skylake-X is the worst blunder in recent Intel History. Now, mainstream is where Intel has a big chance to shine bright again with the 8600K, which I suspect will be a big success with gamers. They get the 2 more cores when Intel really needs right now to relieve issues with i5 and i7 stuttering in some games. This will allow better smoother game play vs. the multitude of programs and threads running in the background destroying consistent performance. This will also help with streaming quality which Ryzen has just been better at core for core 1800X vs 6900K. Honestly, 6 cores 6 threads is what we have needed for 2 or 3 years.

Do you have any proof that the 1800X is better for streaming than the 6900K? I would assume with similar thread counts they should perform similarly minus IPC advantages etc.

Ryzen is THE BEST CPU for Game Streaming? - $h!t Manufacturers Say Ep. 2
Linus Tech Tips
Published on Apr 6, 2017
Is Ryzen REALLY the best consumer CPU option for video encoding and game streaming? Let's find out!
[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jludqTnPpnU&ab_channel=LinusTechTips"][/video]
4:37 Hardware Specs

The 6900K is absolutely better at streaming.

Do you have any proof that the 1800X is better for streaming than the 6900K? I would assume with similar thread counts they should perform similarly minus IPC advantages etc.

Linus Tech Tips is kidding. The 6900k has better IPC, better memory support, and OC betters.

You have to be nuts to think ""the 1800x is better at streaming than the 6900k"", after Intel been better clock per clock with (better IPC) and higher overclock potential. 😉

Jimmy you asked for proof, and I gave you a review from Linus Media Group who employs 11 people. Linus Tech Tips currently has 4.4 million subscribers. He has a good working relationship with Intel, and assembled 10 6950X Intel workstations on Jun 12, 2017, and this was a paid Intel promotion. Click here for the video! He explains why he went with the 6950X click here! He has no reason to lie, or skew his findings. Optionally, you can take anyone of these other commenters detailed responses 😉

 

[jimmysmitty]

I think it's more interesting to see how the % and the arrows link to each other.

ST/MT performance

I'm more curious about the $$$ price tag on these new processors!

Similar to current line.

If they pull off $250-350 for the 6 cores they will be in much better shape than they are in now in terms of price to performance competition until next generation Ryzen.

What the Zen v2? I want to see what they will do minus slight enhancements and maybe slightly better stock clocks. From what I have seen on Zen and Vega it doesn't look like high clocks will be around so long as they use the 14nm they have which is what, 2019 for 7nm if all goes well?

Honestly, at this point? I'm planning on holding on to my 2600k until post-Core architecture. Which I figure will be when Intel moves to 7nm (since they kinda have to respond to AMD now). Of course, that's about 4 years from now...

Seriously, there's a chance my 2600k makes it a DECADE. :/

I'm starting to think the same. Nothing comes close to it at 4.6Ghz that is actually worth upgrading to. Platform included, the Z77 has been a good chipset and doesn't really have anything to envy new platforms. M.2 would be the only thing, but then again, I have 2 HDDs in raid 0, 1 HDD for storage and 2 SSDs for game duty, so I don't see how much performance I can get out of a new platform (from either camp, mind you).

I might wait to see what Zen 2 brings to the table and how Intel answers to that.

Cheers!

As long as you have a slot free, you could still do M.2 with a PCI-E adapter.

Minus booting. I am pretty sure the first chipset that supports PCIe and NVMe booting is the Z97.

There was plethora of negative responses Skylake-X from reviewers and the enthusiast community as a whole! From pricing, reductions of PCI-E lanes, VROC NVME RAID dongles, the entire value structure, and over heating issues with huge power consumption along with a terribly rushed launch destroyed Skylake-X. Also, the inclusion of the i5 and i7 CPU's to Intel's the HEDT line up. Skylake-X is the worst blunder in recent Intel History. Now, mainstream is where Intel has a big chance to shine bright again with the 8600K, which I suspect will be a big success with gamers. They get the 2 more cores when Intel really needs right now to relieve issues with i5 and i7 stuttering in some games. This will allow better smoother game play vs. the multitude of programs and threads running in the background destroying consistent performance. This will also help with streaming quality which Ryzen has just been better at core for core 1800X vs 6900K. Honestly, 6 cores 6 threads is what we have needed for 2 or 3 years.

Do you have any proof that the 1800X is better for streaming than the 6900K? I would assume with similar thread counts they should perform similarly minus IPC advantages etc.

Zen2 tapes out this year on 7nm, launch in 2018

Threadripper supports native NVMe RAID 0/1/10

Sure it will. When they show it off working I will believe it.

And I said first chipset to support PCIe and NVMe booting. Nothing about what TR supports or does not.

Zen2 tapes out this year on 7nm, launch in 2018

Threadripper supports native NVMe RAID 0/1/10

Next year is Pinnacle Ridge, which uses Zen. Zen2 is a 2019 product.

Threadripper NVMe RAID support is broken.

NVMe RAID support is fine, what is not yet supported is bootable NVMe RAID, however that is going to change in a few days.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-1900-threadripper-tr4-ryzen,35360.html

the X399 platform launched without support for bootable NVMe RAID, but the company is adding support for RAID 0, 1, and 10 via firmware updates. You can build bootable RAID arrays of up to ten devices, and the upgrade is free.

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-nvme-raid-driver-threadripper-coming-september-25th_197500

One of the missing features when the AMD X399 platform launched was bootable NVMe RAID. AMD knew this was an issue and has managed to enable bootable NVMe RAID arrays in a driver update that is coming on September 25th.

On the x299 side you have to pay for anything other than Raid 0
http://techreport.com/news/32020/computex-2017-intel-unleashes-nvme-raid-for-x299

Support for RAID 0 NVMe arrays is free, but you have to shell out $99 for a physical VROC key to plug into the header to unlock RAID 1 and RAID 10. For RAID 5, there's a more expensive key (we heard both $199 and $299 are possible).

TLDR;
TR supports NVMe RAID
TR will support bootable NVMe RAID after September 25th
You have to shell out a few hundred bucks for NVMe RAID on x299

Short of RAID 0 RAID is pointless outside of a NAS or SAN. RAID 1 is pointless and inferior to an offline backup.

And how many NVMe M.2 drives do most motherboards support currently? 2? Even the top Asus X399 has a DIMM.2 slot with a module that supports 2 M.2 drives so that literally kills RAID 10 as you need more than 2 drives for RAID 10 (normally 4).

Unless you plan to use a PCIe slot in which case to get optimal performance you now take one of the x16 slots away (dell has a quad M.2 to PCIe in x16 form) so there goes your dual PCIe x16 SLI/CFX setup, even the top end Asus board only has x16/x8/x16/x8.

 

[logainofhades]

The R7 series has a better price/performance than a 6900k. With the same budget, you are always going to get a better overall rig for your money with AM4 vs x99 or X299. From that perspective, it is the best for the vast majority of streamers. Only those with crazy high budgets can get better, and even then I would consider threadripper over x99, or x299, just for more PCI-E lanes. The price is just crazy for Intel's 6 core+ i7 offerings.

 

[juanrga]

Zen2 tapes out this year on 7nm, launch in 2018

Threadripper supports native NVMe RAID 0/1/10

Next year is Pinnacle Ridge, which uses Zen. Zen2 is a 2019 product.

Threadripper NVMe RAID support is broken.

NVMe RAID support is fine, what is not yet supported is bootable NVMe RAID, however that is going to change in a few days.

It isn't fine

Just a note, you can't do an NVMe RAID setup on Threadripper until AMD updates it's AGESA code to allow it.

 

[goldstone77]

The R7 series has a better price/performance than a 6900k. With the same budget, you are always going to get a better overall rig for your money with AM4 vs x99 or X299. From that perspective, it is the best for the vast majority of streamers. Only those with crazy high budgets can get better, and even then I would consider threadripper over x99, or x299, just for more PCI-E lanes. The price is just crazy for Intel's 6 core+ i7 offerings.

I agree with you word for word 100%!

 

[-Fran-]

The R7 series has a better price/performance than a 6900k. With the same budget, you are always going to get a better overall rig for your money with AM4 vs x99 or X299. From that perspective, it is the best for the vast majority of streamers. Only those with crazy high budgets can get better, and even then I would consider threadripper over x99, or x299, just for more PCI-E lanes. The price is just crazy for Intel's 6 core+ i7 offerings.

I agree with you word for word 100%!

Sometimes, people lose sight of the forest because of the tall trees, right?

That being said. I still have to give the caveat that only "pro streamers" may need a beefy setup. Normal gamers that stream from time to time, are fine with even an i5 and 720p. I think I have said it before, but I can stream and game perfectly fine in 1080p using OBS Studio, software compression (x264), high profile, 1200Mb/s ,4 key frame intervals and "very fast" CPU (I had to go and read that; been some time since I've streamed anything other than GW2 or Assetto Corsa, lol).

Cheers!

 

[jimmysmitty]

The R7 series has a better price/performance than a 6900k. With the same budget, you are always going to get a better overall rig for your money with AM4 vs x99 or X299. From that perspective, it is the best for the vast majority of streamers. Only those with crazy high budgets can get better, and even then I would consider threadripper over x99, or x299, just for more PCI-E lanes. The price is just crazy for Intel's 6 core+ i7 offerings.

The only issue I have with the PCIe is that you are not actually getting all 64 for PCIe use. So no true PCIe x16 quad GPU setup, even though that is just stupid these days.

I think certain parts get over hyped, like PCIe lanes. Hell even gamers can't saturate a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot yet.

I do think Intel needs to come down in price a bit but AMD also needs a more competitive chip to push them there. Right now it is competitive but it isn't K8 competitive. K8 demolished all P4s in every area, not just some. The only Pentium that competed with K8 was the Pentium M adapted to a 478 socket and overclocked.

As well the other big market is mobile. AMD hasn't had much competition there so I guess we will see how well Zen does in that space.

That said, Intel still is on track for 10nm and maybe they will get their power in check with Canon Lake X.

 

[juanrga]

The R7 series has a better price/performance than a 6900k. With the same budget, you are always going to get a better overall rig for your money with AM4 vs x99 or X299. From that perspective, it is the best for the vast majority of streamers. Only those with crazy high budgets can get better, and even then I would consider threadripper over x99, or x299, just for more PCI-E lanes. The price is just crazy for Intel's 6 core+ i7 offerings.

SKL-X has better price/performance than 6900k (Broadwell-E). The newest chips have to be cheaper and/or faster; otherwise people will not update.

About comparing AM4 and X299, I don't see that performance/price advantage of the AM4. SKL-X is cheaper and usually faster

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1852?vs=1903

 

[goldstone77]

The R7 series has a better price/performance than a 6900k. With the same budget, you are always going to get a better overall rig for your money with AM4 vs x99 or X299. From that perspective, it is the best for the vast majority of streamers. Only those with crazy high budgets can get better, and even then I would consider threadripper over x99, or x299, just for more PCI-E lanes. The price is just crazy for Intel's 6 core+ i7 offerings.

SKL-X has better price/performance than 6900k (Broadwell-E). The newest chips have to be cheaper and/or faster; otherwise people will not update.

About comparing AM4 and X299, I don't see that performance/price advantage of the AM4. SKL-X is cheaper and usually faster

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1852?vs=1903

It's not cheaper at all, and consumes much more power double to more than double to the point of inefficiency compared to performance with the 1700. Overall they trade blows back and forth, but are very close in performance. That benchmark you compare the 1700X with 7800X The 1700, 1700X, and 1800X are the same CPU. So, here I compare the 1700 a $294(comes with a great cooler) CPU to the 7800X a $375(need to buy a freezer to cool it) CPU. $81 difference in CPU. Now for the cost in platform!
Motherboards AM4
Click here for a list on PC Parts Picker
MSI B350 TOMAHAWK AM4 AMD B350 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard $99.99 $89.99 after $10.00 rebate card.
MSI - B350M GAMING PRO Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard Price: $69.99 Free Shipping for Prime Members

Motherboards X299
Click here for a list on PC Parts Picker
MSI Pro Series Intel X299 LGA 2066 DDR4 USB 3.1 SLI ATX Motherboard (X299 RAIDER) Sale Price: $217.89
$207.89 after $10.00 rebate
Gigabyte - X299 AORUS Gaming 9 ATX LGA2066 Motherboard Price: $499.99 Free Shipping for Prime Members
TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP CPU and Motherboard
Ryzen
$383 with the popular MSI B350 TomaHawk ($8 more expensive than the 7800X processor alone)
$363 with the poplular MSI gaming Pro ($22 cheaper than the cost of the 7800X processor alone)

HEDT X299
$582 with the cheapest board on PC Parts Picker
$874.99 for the most expensive board on PC parts Picker.

I wouldn't recommend Skylake-X at all!

Edit:
Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Turbo OC Video Card
Price: $499.99 Free Shipping for Prime Members
$862-882 with the 1700 with a 1080.