Most Demanding Game

[PCgamer81]

We've had very different experiences. You keep saying things that contradict my experiences.

With 1 GPU, I played Crysis at high, not very high. With 1 GPU I played Metro 2033 at medium/high (I tried both, but motion sickness made me go to medium). With 2 GPU's, both played maxed out very easily, except in a few places outdoors in Metro 2033, but that seemed to be more of a bug, because lowering settings didn't help much.

I've played Crysis maxed out with some computer issues that I could tell was not the FPS it should be, but still felt pretty smooth. When I turned on a meter, it was running at 10-15 FPS. I found it amazingly smooth for a game with 10-15 FPS. You say the opposite. Our different experiences might be due to the motion blur setting.

Like I tried to say before, you are basing your judgements on emotional feelings and not facts. This is why almost everyone has disagreed with you.

The only person that has disagreed with me is the OP, and believe me when I say I couldn't care less.

Again, when we are close to a compromise, you find need to insult me. Emotional? Everyone disagrees with me?

Okay. Give an inch, you take a mile. I guess conceding that Metro 2033 is harder to max wasn't good enough - now you want more.

Well, you're not going to get it. Crysis is harder to run at high visual settings - minus DoF and Tess - and that's that.

 

[bystander]

The only person that has disagreed with me is the OP, and believe me when I say I couldn't care less.

Again, when we are close to a compromise, you find need to insult me. Emotional? Everyone disagrees with me?

Okay. Give an inch, you take a mile. I guess conceding that Metro 2033 is harder to max wasn't good enough - now you want more.

Well, you're not going to get it. Crysis is harder to run at high visual settings - minus DoF and Tess - and that's that.

I didn not believe calling your judgement emotional as being an insult. You just kept talking about the reason you felt that way is because Crysis kept kicking your butt and go on and on about it.

It also seems to me that with Crysis, you seemed unwilling to compromise on settings, while you felt no problem compromising with Metro 2033.

Those seem to be more emotional responses, not fact.

There were others besides me and the OP, that did not agree with you and some agreed with you because you didn't give them the facts at first, and now it goes the other way.

I've already stated it pretty clear why we disagree. You are translating the "most demanding" to be "most demanding to play at the settings you believe gives a minimum quality". Unfortunately, that minimum quality you desire is an personal opinion as well as the fact I believe it's clouded by your strong desire to max out Crysis while not having that desire with Metro 2033.

 

[PCgamer81]

There were others besides me and the OP, that did not agree with you and some agreed with you because you didn't give them the facts at first, and now it goes the other way.

Can you give me an example of someone who sided with me and then went against me?

Also, I thought we reached a compromise. What happened?

Remember the boxer analogy? Crysis 11 rounds, Metro 2033 1 round (DoF and Tess), and you wanna say Metro 2033 wins the fight.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. At least not when we are talking about most demanding and not "hardest to max out".

Not when to make Metro 2033 run great at amazing visuals, all you have to do is disable DoF and Tess.

Not when you can do no such thing, disabling DoF and Tess that is, to make Crysis run good.

You seem to be hung up on technicalities.

You can say that Metro 2033 is more demanding, all you want. But for me, that is intellectual dishonesty and broad generalizing.

I will do no such thing.

 

[PCgamer81]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/demanding

Demanding: making difficult or irksome demands on one's resources, patience, energy, etc.

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http://www.yourdictionary.com/maximum

Maximum: greatest possible, permissible, or reached




Also, a game can be demanding even in low settings. Or medium. Or DX9. Or...whatever.

For you to apply it to only maximum settings is just unfair. Broaden your views.

That is why I say that Metro 2033 is more demanding when maxed out, but Crysis is more demanding overall.

The fact that you have a problem with such a logical and reasonable theory is indicative of your stubborn refusal to be wrong about something.

 

[bystander]

Can you give me an example of someone who sided with me and then went against me?

Also, I thought we reached a compromise. What happened?

Remember the boxer analogy? Crysis 11 rounds, Metro 2033 1 round (DoF and Tess), and you wanna say Metro 2033 wins the fight.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. At least not when we are talking about most demanding and not "hardest to max out".

Not when to make Metro 2033 run great at amazing visuals, all you have to do is disable DoF and Tess.

Not when you can do no such thing, disabling DoF and Tess that is, to make Crysis run good.

You seem to be hung up on technicalities.

You can say that Metro 2033 is more demanding, all you want. But for me, that is intellectual dishonesty and broad generalizing.

I will do no such thing.

I'm not going to go through all this again.

You obviously have a different view of what "most demanding" means. I agreed that if you were talking about which game was easiest to get to a good look, that Metro 2033 might seem easier, but that is an opinion as you can't measure what is good enough.

"Most demanding" by most people here, at least by every post I ever read on these forums, is what game requires the most power to max out the game, or at least, use their Highest predefined settings with or without AA. I kind of agree that most people have an unhealthy desire to play games maxed on these sites, but that is what people want to measure and it is something that you can measure. You can't measure opinions (what is enough).

The more you write, the more I realize that a lot of your reasoning is based on some extreme desire to max out Crysis, which is all fine and good, but Crysis still looks very good at high settings, and even a mix of high and medium settings, at least in my opinion. If you feel Metro 2033 was good enough without tessellation and DoF, why isn't Crysis good enough at medium and high settings? (This is where I come to the conclusion that a lot of your judgements are based on emotional reasoning; the uncompromising desire to max Crysis, but not other games.)

 

[bystander]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/demanding

Demanding: making difficult or irksome demands on one's resources, patience, energy, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.yourdictionary.com/maximum

Maximum: greatest possible, permissible, or reached




Also, a game can be demanding even in low settings. Or medium. Or DX9. Or...whatever.

For you to apply it to only maximum settings is just unfair. Broaden your views.

That is why I say that Metro 2033 is more demanding when maxed out, but Crysis is more demanding overall.

The fact that you have a problem with such a logical and reasonable theory is indicative of your stubborn refusal to be wrong about something.

I partly agree with you. Except that you keep saying "overall", how do you define overall? Crysis is more demanding at the highest settings compared to Metro 2033 at it's medium/high settings?

I do understand where your view comes from, but you can't measure your current view, which is why I can't just agree with you. How do you define overall, and can you measure it? You kept stating it as "Fact" earlier, but a fact has to be measurable and you have yet to measure it in a fair way (comparing Crysis at max compared to Metro 2033 at below max is not fair).

As a result, I just can't accept your definition as fact or even valid. I can consider an opinion and I do accept that as your opinion.

 

[PCgamer81]

I partly agree with you. Except that you keep saying "overall", how do you define overall? Crysis is more demanding at the highest settings compared to Metro 2033 at it's medium/high settings?

I do understand where your view comes from, but you can't measure your current view, which is why I can't just agree with you. How do you define overall, and can you measure it? You kept stating it as "Fact" earlier, but a fact has to be measurable and you have yet to measure it in a fair way (comparing Crysis at max compared to Metro 2033 at below max is not fair).

As a result, I just can't accept your definition as fact or even valid. I can consider an opinion and I do accept that as your opinion.

Well, I will make a video using my camera, first showing my GPU clock speeds, then entering Metro 2033 and running a series of 1 minute fraps benchmarks in different settings.

Then I will exit Metro 2033 and enter Crysis, where I will do the same.

I will then display the benchmark results in my video, as well as post them here.

Then you will know what I mean.

I will be back in an hour or two.

Who knows, you may be right...

 

[bystander]

Well, I will make a video using my camera, first showing my GPU clock speeds, then entering Metro 2033 and running a series of 1 minute fraps benchmarks in different settings.

Then I will exit Metro 2033 and enter Crysis, where I will do the same.

I will then display the benchmark results in my video, as well as post them here.

Then you will know what I mean.

I will be back in an hour or two.

Who knows, you may be right...

What settings are you going to use? The difficult part of what you are about to do is what is a fair range of settings to compare. What settings do you carry over from one test to the next, and which you do? What part of the games do you test? You could use their built in benchmarks. Metro 2033's is very good, except that it might be more demanding than the average place in game.

It's a hard undertaking and I'm not sure how you can make a definitive answer. Anyways, good luck.

 

[PCgamer81]

What settings are you going to use? The difficult part of what you are about to do is what is a fair range of settings to compare. What settings do you carry over from one test to the next, and which you do? What part of the games do you test? You could use their built in benchmarks. Metro 2033's is very good, except that it might be more demanding than the average place in game.

It's a hard undertaking and I'm not sure how you can make a definitive answer. Anyways, good luck.

The video is uploading now.

I couldn't test many settings because I had trouble with the camera - trying to hold it and play at the same time.

Metro 2033 AA maxed and AF maxed, 1080p and Very High DX11 with Tess - everything maxed except for DoF.

Also, I tried it with the above settings - except I disabled both DoF and Tess, and switched the settings to normal.

I ran Metro 2033 in an outdoor level on both benchmarks - maybe the most demanding part of the game (right when you meet up with Bourbon again).

-------------------------------------------------------

Crysis maxed out and using the natural mod - the natural mod does not affect perfomance at all. In fact, it is known by many to improve performance. Ask anyone, google it, whatever. Just don't try to use that as an excuse because that would be BS. Research it.

I switched Crysis down to high and then tried it again.

You can see for yourself the results, I will have it posted in a few.

 

[bystander]

I don't see the link yet, but I'm wondering about your everything max except DoF, did that mean PhysX was on or not?

I personally chose to play with DoF and not PhysX rather than the other way around. I couldn't see any difference with PhysX when in Dx11 everything max, according to the info on the benchmark tool, it mention PhysX would do real time calculations vs pre calculated stuff.

Oh, and what settings are you doing for Crysis?

 

[PCgamer81]

I don't see the link yet, but I'm wondering about your everything max except DoF, did that mean PhysX was on or not?

I personally chose to play with DoF and not PhysX rather than the other way around. I couldn't see any difference with PhysX when in Dx11 everything max, according to the info on the benchmark tool, it mention PhysX would do real time calculations vs pre calculated stuff.

Oh, and what settings are you doing for Crysis?

No, physx is disabled because I am using an amd card. My CPU would have to handle the calculations if I enabled it, and I have done that before with almost no hit in performance. I don't do it anymore because my CPU crashed to bios one time when using physx.

Also, Crysis vid is totally maxed and then in high settings. But because of the mod my performance is a little better than normal.

 

[PCgamer81]

Link on it's way.

About another 20 minutes.

Also, I had to scale the bit rate down so it would upload faster. It is still decent quality.

 

[PCgamer81]

Thanks for being patient.

Here is the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbge0ZELZ60

 

[PCgamer81]

Let me tell you something else...

I purchased Crysis 2 last night (it was on sale in Origin). This morning I patched it to DX11 and installed the High-Res pack.

I honestly think it gives both Crysis and Metro 2033 a run for their money. It also makes me want to go shell out on a 3D monitor.

 

[bystander]

Let me tell you something else...

I purchased Crysis 2 last night (it was on sale in Origin). This morning I patched it to DX11 and installed the High-Res pack.

I honestly think it gives both Crysis and Metro 2033 a run for their money. It also makes me want to go shell out on a 3D monitor.

I have 3 complaints about that video.

1) Your Crysis has 8x AA compared to AA on Metro. Especially after the argument earlier.
2) You chose the easiest outdoor area. That was a special corridor scene, about the easiest outdoor area there is.
3) You didn't use DoF...why didn't you?

If you had at least used 2x MSAA on Crysis, and standard Very High settings in Crysis, you should see 40-50 FPS at 1080p from personal experience (still higher than AA or use 4x MSAA for both). That was still lower than your Metro 2033 scene, but the performance in Metro 2033 is up and down a lot, and you chose an extremely easy scene, even if it was out doors.

You may be right about averages though, but please show you aren't trying to fudge the comparisons (even if unintentional).

 

[PCgamer81]

I have 3 complaints about that video.

1) Your Crysis has 8x AA compared to AA on Metro. Especially after the argument earlier.
2) You chose the easiest outdoor area. That was a special corridor scene, about the easiest outdoor area there is.
3) You didn't use DoF...why didn't you?

If you had at least used 2x MSAA on Crysis, and standard Very High settings in Crysis, you should see 45-50 FPS at 1080p from personal experience (still higher than AA or use 4x MSAA for both). That was still lower than your Metro 2033 scene, but the performance in Metro 2033 is up and down a lot, and you chose an extremely easy scene, even if it was out doors.

You may be right about averages though, but please show you aren't trying to fudge the comparisons (even if unintentional).

Bullsh*t. You are wrong.

I had AA and AF MAXED out.

Look at the settings again. Then go into Metro 2033 (I assume you have it) or check some youtube videos of people playing it "maxed out", and see if you notice anything more than 4AA 16AF, which is what I had it set to.

In fact - everything was maxed except DoF, and the reason I didn't turn on DoF was because I already conceded that Metro 2033 might be more demanding maxed. So, I made the video just to show you how badly Crysis pwns Metro 2033 - getting about half the fps as Metro 2033.

And that easy outdoor area sh*t you pulled is classic. You just can't give it up, can you? That scene is very demanding. You have mutants coming at you from everywhere, snow falling - it is at least more demanding than anything you would get in the corridors, which is 90% where Metro 2033 is played.

I am shocked dude. I really am. I go to all that work to show you something, and you try weasel your way out of it with lame excuses.

 

[bystander]

Bullsh*t. You are wrong.

I had AA and AF MAXED out.

Look at the settings again. Then go into Metro 2033 (I assume you have it) or check some youtube videos of people playing it "maxed out", and see if you notice anything more than 4AA 16AF, which is what I had it set to.

In fact - everything was maxed except DoF, and the reason I didn't turn on DoF was because I already conceded that Metro 2033 might be more demanding maxed. So, I made the video just to show you how badly Crysis pwns Metro 2033 - getting about half the fps as Metro 2033.

And that easy outdoor area sh*t you pulled is classic. You just can't give it up, can you? That scene is very demanding. You have mutants coming at you from everywhere, snow falling - it is at least more demanding than anything you would get in the corridors, which is 90% where Metro 2033 is played.

I am shocked dude. I really am. I go to all that work to show you something, and you try weasel your way out of it with lame excuses.

Sorry, 4x compared to 8x AA on Crysis. Well, I just know for a fact that there are many other more demanding areas, but like I said, Crysis might still be more demanding compared to Metro 2033 without DoF, but at least be a bit more fair is all i was saying.

 

[PCgamer81]

Sorry, 4x compared to 8x AA on Crysis. Well, I just know for a fact that there are many other more demanding areas, but like I said, Crysis might still be more demanding compared to Metro 2033 without DoF, but at least be a bit more fair is all i was saying.

Well, so Metro 2033 has 4AA and Crysis has 8AA - Metro 2033 has Tessalation (DX11), where as Crysis is running in DX10. So they are even (opinion).

Dude, listen. I don't mean to come off as a prick, but you have to understand my point of view. Crysis is special to me and for a lot of reasons. If I could find an analogy to compare my relationship to Crysis, the best one would be Captain Ahab and Moby Dick. For a while I have wanted to run that game totally maxed with decent performance. And everytime I make a hardware change, I go straight to Crysis - only to have my spirit utterly crushed, again and again.

I will not deny that Metro 2033 is a system crusher in it's own right. And with DoF, I get about 30-35 fps compared to about 35-40 fps in Crysis. That is what I wanted to show you in the video - not that Crysis was harder to max, but to show you that just by disabling DoF gets me about 50-60fps on average. I can turn AA off in Crysis and it won't so much as move, and I swear this. I tone everything down a notch - nothing. You either have to play in medium settings and/or play in DX9 to get the kind of bench that I did with Metro 2033 - at least with a mid range machine.

That is why I feel that Crysis is more demanding in general.

 

[tjosborne]

Okay, because someone comes on here with that unproven malarkey, we should stop our debate.

No way a Batman game tops Metro 2033 max settings. No way.

OK B!T(H CONTINUE WITH THIS NONSENCE a never ending argument

 

[tjosborne]

this thread should be what is the most un-optimized game, not demanding. crysis 2 w/ dx11 looks 100% better than metro or crysis 1 and runs 100% better also

 

[PCgamer81]

this thread should be what is the most un-optimized game, not demanding. crysis 2 w/ dx11 looks 100% better than metro or crysis 1 and runs 100% better also

People may interpret "demanding" in many different ways. You see it as being related to optimization, and for the most part I do too.

And as bad as I hate to, I have to agree with you about Crysis 2. It does look better than Crysis 1 and Metro 2033, provided you have the hardware to run it in DX11 with high res textures.

 

[bystander]

People may interpret "demanding" in many different ways. You see it as being related to optimization, and for the most part I do too.

And as bad as I hate to, I have to agree with you about Crysis 2. It does look better than Crysis 1 and Metro 2033, provided you have the hardware to run it in DX11 with high res textures.

I also agree Crysis 2 Dx11 looks great. I especially like the tessellation effect on the brick and cobblestones. I forget the technical term for it, but I don't recall any other game using that effect (the heaven benchmark does).

 

[PCgamer81]

I also agree Crysis 2 Dx11 looks great. I especially like the tessellation effect on the brick and cobblestones. I forget the technical term for it, but I don't recall any other game using that effect (the heaven benchmark does).

What is Crysis 2 like in 3D? Is it worth me shelling out $500?

 

[bystander]

What is Crysis 2 like in 3D? Is it worth me shelling out $500?

It's possibly the best 3D game I own. It has no 3D bugs. It looks great, and it even works with Dx11, unfortunately, I use Dx9 due to performance issues. I think two 580's could play it with good performance, but not two 470's at 1080p. I get FPS between 30-40 and that is not good enough IMO.

 

[PCgamer81]

It's possibly the best 3D game I own. It has no 3D bugs. It looks great, and it even works with Dx11, unfortunately, I use Dx9 due to performance issues. I think two 580's could play it with good performance, but not two 470's at 1080p. I get FPS between 30-40 and that is not good enough IMO.

I max Crysis 2 in DX11 and also with the high res pack, and I get about 40fps on average. It never drops below 30 and often goes about 50. I heard that the human eye can't read more than 30 or so frames per second, anyway. I think the thing that make it look laggy isn't necessarily the 35fps, but the fast drops repeatedly. I have ran detailed benchmarks and have found that a game can drop 20fps and back up again in a fraction of a second. That instability causes lag. I have also ran games in fraps, where I would lock the fps at a low value (30 or so), and it was smooth and lag free. PC games often have the tendency to bounce all over the place with the frame rate, and that instability - especially when it bounces back and forth in a fraction of a second - gives the appearance of heavy lag.

For me, anything under 30 is unplayable. Anything over 40 is desirable. And anything in between is ''meh''.

You have about the equivalent of two 6870s in xfire, so I would think you would be getting 60 fps. Is 3D a hit on performance?