Mozilla Says Microsoft Went Too Far With Windows 10

[zanny]

It seems that Mozilla got scared of a faster, reliable, user friendly browser.

Edge is proprietary, and is thus much less reliable or user friendly than Chromium or Firefox just due to that fact. Significant amount of the reason why Chrome / Firefox are web standards compliant and even Edge is most assuredly not is because Microsoft has a few dozen developers working on their browser while Firefox and Chromium have hundreds of contributors from Google / Mozilla plus dozens of other companies and thousands of freelance contributors.

In the moment Microsoft wrote an ultra-optimized HTML rendering engine. Big whoop. It won't keep up with standards, and will likely not get updated often enough, and will probably still hold web standards back like IE has for two decades. It isn't a change in approach from Microsoft, just rebranding and putting a new paint job on the same old same old.

Who remembers IE11 when Windows 8 came out? It was beating Chrome and Firefox for all of a few weeks before the constant update cycle of the open browsers reclaimed the throne once they were able to observe Microsofts optimizations and either adopt them or similar mechanisms. Today IE11, the only Microsoft browser available on Windows 7 or 8, is now one of the slowest browsers on the market because they lack the raw manpower popular open source communities produce to constantly iterate on performance.

 

[Vlad Rose]

Biggest reason I don't/won't use edge: no Chromecast support

 

[Davil]

I use chrome and when I first went to open up a webpage from somewhere other than opening my browser it prompted me for what I wanted to use and had a checkbox for using it as my default. What is the problem?

 

[Vlad Rose]

I use chrome and when I first went to open up a webpage from somewhere other than opening my browser it prompted me for what I wanted to use and had a checkbox for using it as my default. What is the problem?

Same thing here. It was the same way with previous versions of Windows. If Firefox doesn't have that option built into their browser, it's their own fault, not Microsoft's.

 

[littleleo]

MS shouldn't be allowed to change my default choices they are trying to force people to use their bloatware. Sure most can change it back themselves, but we shouldn't have to, and some will not be able to figure out how to change it themselves. Yes there are people that won't be able to figure it out (e.g. the tea baggers, fox "news" watchers).

 

[wiyosaya]

There are much bigger issues. Like the data mining of users. Have you read the official list of data that gets collected and transmitted to MS? Passwords (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), emails (!!!!!!!!!!!!), instant messages (!!!!!!!!!!), your name, address, EVERYTHING.
Why isnt anyone complaining about that? Are they all braindead? Nobody has learned anything from the last 2 years?
Unbelievable...

Anyone using a smart phone has already fallen victim to these tactics. Why no animosity toward Apple and Google???

Maybe because the thread is about Microsoft? Or are you fanning the flames because you are all powerful?

 

[getochkn]

I always wonder why MS gets in so much trouble for their bundling and defaults, but other OS's dont. They got sued and had to sell Windows with a Media Player or Browser, but does the MacOS not include Safari as it's default or iTunes? Every Linux I've installed includes Firefox as a default.

 

[wiyosaya]

I use chrome and when I first went to open up a webpage from somewhere other than opening my browser it prompted me for what I wanted to use and had a checkbox for using it as my default. What is the problem?

That comes from Chrome when Chrome recognizes that it is not the default browser. As I see it, that is a far cry from something in Windows that is specifically tasked with asking the user what their preferences are. If it were Windows asking you what your browser preference is, then NO ONE would complain.

 

[wiyosaya]

I always wonder why MS gets in so much trouble for their bundling and defaults, but other OS's dont. They got sued and had to sell Windows with a Media Player or Browser, but does the MacOS not include Safari as it's default or iTunes? Every Linux I've installed includes Firefox as a default.

In the case of Linux, no one is making a profit on it, and including Firefox does not give a monetary advantage to anyone.

 

[surphninja]

Maybe this feature was developed in response to so many browsers and malware surreptitiously changing your default browser on you. If it makes it harder for programs to take over the browsing of unwitting users, I'm all for a little extra work.

 

[Beebstar]

Uh, Windows 7 is available for sale on NewEgg and will be supported for years to come. No one is required to upgrade to Windows 10. Also, there are PC brands that offer non-Microsoft OSs on their units. Microsoft's behavior may be similar to past events; however, times HAVE changed - thankfully.

 

[zanny]

MS shouldn't be allowed to change my default choices they are trying to force people to use their bloatware. Sure most can change it back themselves, but we shouldn't have to, and some will not be able to figure out how to change it themselves. Yes there are people that won't be able to figure it out (e.g. the tea baggers, fox "news" watchers).

What alternative do you want? State agencies dictating how Microsoft can write their own software? How about talking about OSX, and how you literally have no power over that at all?

In the end, its Microsofts software, you chose to use it, and that means putting up with whatever they want to do with it. The 2000 antitrust case was about monopolistic power on the x86 platform, which is still a valid argument, but has nothing to do with whatever defaults or settings Microsoft wants to put in their OS.

If their TOS said we are going to record your microphone and webcam and sell all that footage to whoever wants it, and you click yes (and you would have to to use the OS) there is no violation of anything happening because you agreed to be spied on. That is how a lot of this Cortana stuff works in the first place.

You chose your OS, and you have the choice to either not use Windows 10 or any MS OS at all if you wish it. It might even be a hard choice, if you are dependent on Windows only software, but its still your decision to make, especially if you decided to use Windows-only products in the first place.

 

[Vlad Rose]

If there is actually that much of a hassle to hit the 'set as default button' to change the default browser in Windows 10, run Mac OSX. Oh wait, they force the same thing themselves with Safari.

At least there's Chrome OS. Oops, Chrome browser is the default.

What do you guess will be the default browser in Firefox OS? You guessed it.

Ubuntu? Firefox.

Debian? Epiphany on Gnome or Konqueror on KDE.

Every OS does the same thing. So why should Microsoft be at blame?

Trust me, it could be much worse. Back in the days of Windows 95, the only way to get a web browser on the machine was either to install via CD or download it through a web browser via the internet. So, short of buying a disc, you needed a web browser to download a web browser. See the oxymoron there? At least by having IE in Windows by default, you're able to get Firefox, Chrome, etc without jumping through a ton of hoops. I can most definitely live with having to hit a button that says "set as default" a lot easier than with the other option.

 

[bvmcdaniel]

I've been a faithful Firefox user for years. However, I find Mozilla's statement a little hypocritical: "Mozilla feels that this needlessly forces users into trying products they may not want." The last Firefox upgrade I performed set Yahoo! as my default search engine and as my home page -- all without prompting me. Mozilla was obviously trying to force me into trying a product I didn't want. If I had wanted Yahoo! -- which I most certainly don't -- I would have set it up a long time ago myself without any nudges from Mozilla.

 

[tical2399]

and Edge is pretty decent.

I personally use Mozilla Firefox for 50% of my browser time and the rest goes to edge.

I have been a chrome user for like a zillion years. I am kinda liking edge.....

Edge is very quick , been using it.

You are all proof that Microsoft's strategy works, and that Mozilla should be worried.

Your comment makes no sense. You're making it seem like these people only used edge because they got tricked into it or something. Most on here are probably in the insiders program or the types to try out new software anyway. Them liking edge is probably just them liking it, not proof that MS plan worked.

 

[ludax]

"Hey Cortana, change my default browser to Mozilla Firefox"

 

[Marcus52]

The fact is, the kind of person that would have difficulty changing back to a different browser wouldn't have anything different than Internet Explorer installed to begin with. Is it a bit heavy-handed? Yes I think it is, but it is realistically a non-issue.

It won't stop me from using Firefox. The only thing that would even get me to try something else would be that the other browser allowed for NoScript - or provided all the features NoScript does inherently. If someone makes a "NoScript included" browser - THAT would impress me. Otherwise, I don't care how fast or slick your internet interface software is.

 

[wiyosaya]

Maybe this feature was developed in response to so many browsers and malware surreptitiously changing your default browser on you. If it makes it harder for programs to take over the browsing of unwitting users, I'm all for a little extra work.

Getting away from conspiracy theories and assuming that Microsoft is not always evil, I think this makes a lot of sense.

 

[wiyosaya]

If there is actually that much of a hassle to hit the 'set as default button' to change the default browser in Windows 10, run Mac OSX. Oh wait, they force the same thing themselves with Safari.

At least there's Chrome OS. Oops, Chrome browser is the default.

What do you guess will be the default browser in Firefox OS? You guessed it.

Ubuntu? Firefox.

Debian? Epiphany on Gnome or Konqueror on KDE.

Every OS does the same thing. So why should Microsoft be at blame?

Trust me, it could be much worse. Back in the days of Windows 95, the only way to get a web browser on the machine was either to install via CD or download it through a web browser via the internet. So, short of buying a disc, you needed a web browser to download a web browser. See the oxymoron there? At least by having IE in Windows by default, you're able to get Firefox, Chrome, etc without jumping through a ton of hoops. I can most definitely live with having to hit a button that says "set as default" a lot easier than with the other option.

The whole point of Mozilla's objection (and the discussion in this thread) is that on upgrading an OS from 7, 8, or 8.1 when that OS already has FireFox installed and set to be the default browser, to Windows 10, the default upgrade process changes the user's preference for the browser to Edge from Firefox. It is not that 10 installs Edge and Edge is the default.

 

[sicom]

I'm confused. Does the "Set as default browser." option that pops up when first opening Mozilla not work? Because it DID pop up, but I chose to keep using Edge and declined the option.

 

[gangrel]

sicom, it points you to the Settings page for default apps. You make the actual change there.

 

[nukemaster]

The default option works fine unless you disabled it.

Failing that it is VERY easy to chose the default browser.

 

[gangrel]

Those of you saying "it's easy to change the default browser" COMPLETELY miss the point. Yes, it is easy. So what? The point is, Microsoft is acting in a manner we perceive as similar to actions for which they've already been chastised...firmly. THAT is the issue at hand. The counter point...Google does this with Android and Chrome...Firefox OS does the same thing...have some merit, but don't hold up. I know Chrome OS is fundamentally rooted in Chrome as a sandbox; I suspect Firefox OS behaves similarly. In these cases, the browsers ARE the OS.

With the Linux variants...your arguments are also off point. EVERY general-purpose OS *must* include a web browser which can be installed with the OS, or at worst on something like a utilities CD. (And if you're gonna do that...bundle it into the main package.) There is no great point in having more than one. So, fine, Ubuntu chose Firefox; Microsoft chose Edge; and so on. NO ONE has complained that Microsoft *installed* Edge in the first place; the point of contention was about it becoming the default *during an upgrade*.

 

[nukemaster]

Custom Install solves this(lets you keep your previous browser as default).

Do you think MS put all this time into a new browser to NOT want people to use it?

Now if they went and removed traces of your old browser(shortcuts and all), then one could complain, but if you have FF on the desktop still, who cares.

It does not matter they can not win as a large company everyone is out to get you.

 

[Prince_Porter]

It's their OS, if I were them I'd do the same thing. It only makes sense they try to push their products in their ecosystem, that's why they exist after all.