Question Obscure motherboard problem for someone wanting a challenge ?

[murky66]

Hello,

I've been a long time Tom's Hardware lurker and feel that I used to have an account, although I couldn't figure it out when logging in just now, so I present as a newbie even though I am quite experienced!

Anyhow, on to my problem! I am attempting to build a PC for a friend and he has a couple of requirements, one being that it will run Windows 11 and the other being that he can use a Legacy PCI sound card (not PCIe). I know this may sound ridiculous, but it does make sense because it is a professional multichannel card. No matter how ridiculous you think that is, please try to overlook that element and focus on what comes next. I just feel a little back story is necessary.

So, I purchased an AM4 Gigabyte AB350M-D3H motherboard on eBay.
I go to update the bios and find that it has a version that does not even appear on Gigabyte's support page. Furthermore, the revision of the board is 1.1, yet Gigabyte only lists 1.0 as an option. So I do some digging and find someone else on reddit that encountered this. Apparently that board was used by a PC builder named ACE Computers and it has some sort of locked bios installed. I speak to a very nice guy there that is genuinely helpful (rare these days) and he sends me instructions for flashing an unlocked bios via EFI Shell, which I managed to figure out how to boot into, etc. etc. After a lot of trial and error, it worked and I got the motherboard to a point where I actually had Gigabyte bios installed. I started with an older one F20 that was from like 2017 or something. Then I incrementally flashed about 15 different bios versions up to the point where I had F51c working. I skipped ahead to F52h (the most current bios) and now the board just displays the bios splash screen (says Gigabyte Ultra Durable or whatever with the F-key commands / DEL to bios / etc. at the bottom of the screen). It seems like the keyboard does not do anything and the display remains stuck on this screen forever.

Some things I have tried so far to fix this are: clearing the cmos, removing the battery and clearing the cmos for 10 minutes, holding the power button for over 10 seconds, holding power and reset for over 10 seconds, turning off and on repeatedly for 3 or 4 times in a row, moving ram to different slots, unplugging the keyboard, plugging the keyboard to different sockets, rebooting with the USB EFI shell drive inserted, moving the video card to a different slot, replacing the original CPU (2700X) with a 1700X, used different RAM, and possibly another one or two that I can't think of at the moment.

So, if you have read this far and enjoy a challenge, I invite you to make some suggestions on how I may bring this motherboard back to life. One last thing. This is just set up on a bench at the moment. I have only the motherboard AB350M-D3H, 1700X cpu, one DDR4 8GB ram module, GTX 1030 video card, and a 550W EVGA PSU connected. There is no nvme installed and no other storage for that matter.

Thanks for any suggestions or help.

murky66

 

[dwd999]

You could as a last resort try a PCIe-to-PCI adapter card to see if the sound card would work on a new computer:

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Express-Adapter-Card-PCI1PEX1/dp/B0024CV3SA?th=1

 

[murky66]

You could as a last resort try a PCIe-to-PCI adapter card to see if the sound card would work on a new computer:

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Express-Adapter-Card-PCI1PEX1/dp/B0024CV3SA?th=1

Sure, I have seen that adapter and it is an option. The bad part about it is that the slot would not align to the case properly. I don't know how important that would be in the future, but I was trying to avoid a hacked together approach if possible. As I mentioned in my original post, I am less concerned with solutions for the PCI slot and more interested in why this motherboard won't pass the splash screen. Thanks for your reply though.

 

[Moonstick2]

No matter how ridiculous you think that is, please try to overlook that element and focus on what comes next.

Nope, can't. There were definitely better ways to try than getting a motherboard with a PCI slot. It's unsure if Windows 11 would have a driver to talk to this PCI card. Windows 11 also needs TPM2.0 which that motherboard doesn't support. There are ways to get around TPM, but they might fall over in the future.

I am less concerned with solutions for the PCI slot and more interested in why this motherboard won't pass the splash screen.

You bought a motherboard of unknown provenience from eBay that turns out to have a non-standard version number and a non-standard BIOS from an OEM. It's fair to say that the most likely issue is that this version of the motherboard has OEM 'quirks' that can make it incompatible with standard BIOS versions.

What I really don't get is why you were flashing the BIOS in the first place, especially after you discovered it was an OEM non standard. Did the board not work when you first got it? Once you got a working one (F51c or whatever) why did you carry on?

The standard version of the motherboard has a backup BIOS chip (labelled B_BIOS, along with M_BIOS somewhere in the middle of the motherboard). You've tried the power button things so maybe that's corrupted too. You could try shorting out the M_BIOS but as B_BIOS might be no good that's probably a very last resort. Ultimately you may have to write this off to experience.

I would try a PS/2 keyboard and see if it responds to that.

 

[rgd1101]

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Express-Slot-Expansion-System/dp/B000UZL1GC

return the motherboard. get a non-oem one

 

[COLGeek]

There are still industrial grade motherboards with native PCI slots. They are generally more expensive than consumer models.

For example:

https://www.industrialpcpro.com/industrial-atx-motherboard

I haven't seen AMD compatible offerings though.

 

[Moonstick2]

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Express-Slot-Expansion-System/dp/B000UZL1GC

return the motherboard. get a non-oem one

Even if the eBay seller accepts returns, they're not going to refund for a motherboard that the buyer has bricked by flashing it with the wrong BIOS.

 

[murky66]

Windows 11 also needs TPM2.0 which that motherboard doesn't support.

I'm sure it supports Windows 11. That's part of why I was flashing the bios to begin with. F52d has this exact note next to the bios download - Change default status of AMD PSP fTPM to Enabled for addressing basic Windows 11 requirements.

Thanks for your PS/2 keyboard suggestion, although I don't think it will work. Unfortunately, I don't think I have any to try. I agree with you about shorting the main bios chip may be the last option.

Let me also mention this. Last night I connected a motherboard speaker. It gives a normal beep right before that splash screen loads and if I remove the video card, I get a long beep followed by 2 or 3 short beeps. So it seems like something is taking place within the post. I guess all that would happen regardless of the bios itself though?

 

[murky66]

Even if the eBay seller accepts returns, they're not going to refund for a motherboard that the buyer has bricked by flashing it with the wrong BIOS.

Yeah, returning it is not an option. I only paid $50 for it. This was a gamble when I bought it, I knew that. I didn't expect the bios to be locked where I couldn't flash it initially but there were no returns on it regardless, so I decided to see how far I could take it. Ultimately, I will likely have to make another plan.

At this point, I have a personal challenge to figure out how to make this gigabyte board boot though and I thought someone here might know some trick to get back into the EFI shell or some way to knock this thing back into working again.

 

[murky66]

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Express-Slot-Expansion-System/dp/B000UZL1GC

return the motherboard. get a non-oem one

Thanks for the link. I had not seen that. A bit expensive unfortunately. That is probably half the cost of the guy's sound card he wants to use.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Hey there,

Have you at any point during the marathon bios update process, cleared CMOS? If not, that's the first thing to do. You need to clear CMOS each time you update or rollback the bios.

 

[murky66]

Hey there,

Have you at any point during the marathon bios update process, cleared CMOS? If not, that's the first thing to do. You need to clear CMOS each time you update or rollback the bios.

Thanks, and yes I have tried clearing the CMOS multiple times. It was going well until it wasn't.

 

[faalin]

Going out on a limb here, didnt AMD start dropping older CPU support on their new bios to allow room for the 5000 series cpus. I thought it was after you get to a certain bios the first gen cpus were dropped.


But hey i could be talking out of my butt

 

[Moonstick2]

I'm sure it supports Windows 11. That's part of why I was flashing the bios to begin with. F52d has this exact note next to the bios download - Change default status of AMD PSP fTPM to Enabled for addressing basic Windows 11 requirements.

Ah, sounds like Gigabyte have their own TPM workaround then. Which may or may not add another layer of complexity when it comes to your non-standard board.

Thanks for your PS/2 keyboard suggestion, although I don't think it will work.

Why not? The splash screen is there, and the BIOS gives out diagnostic beeps so it's clearly not entirely dead. It could just be sitting waiting for keyboard input, unable to listen to USB due to corrupted/incorrect BIOS but still perfectly capable of responding to PS/2. PS/2 keyboards are dirt-cheap on Amazon and if you got into the settings you'd at least learn more about what's going on inside it's little silicon brain. Either this is a challenge to get it working or you're not quite that bothered.

 

[murky66]

Ah, sounds like Gigabyte have their own TPM workaround then. Which may or may not add another layer of complexity when it comes to your non-standard board.


Why not? The splash screen is there, and the BIOS gives out diagnostic beeps so it's clearly not entirely dead. It could just be sitting waiting for keyboard input, unable to listen to USB due to corrupted/incorrect BIOS but still perfectly capable of responding to PS/2. PS/2 keyboards are dirt-cheap on Amazon and if you got into the settings you'd at least learn more about what's going on inside it's little silicon brain. Either this is a challenge to get it working or you're not quite that bothered.

I'm definitely up for the challenge, lol. That's all it has become at this point and I came here, hoping for someone like you to give me some suggestions. I'll get a keyboard and try it. The only reason I am skeptical is that before the last update, the bios would just appear immediately after the splash screen with no keyboard prompting at all. I didn't have to press del or f2, nothing. I will say that I am unsure if it would go there with no keyboard at all though.

As far as the TPM goes, I definitely saw that the TPM option was available in the BIOS before the last update, so I am pretty confident that will not be an issue if I could just roll back the bios by a version.

Thanks again. I'll let you know how the PS/2 keyboard works out.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Going out on a limb here, didnt AMD start dropping older CPU support on their new bios to allow room for the 5000 series cpus. I thought it was after you get to a certain bios the first gen cpus were dropped.


But hey i could be talking out of my butt

You're absolutely correct. That is a thing. I specially think given the AB350 is 1st gen mobo as such, that it most certainly did drop support for Ryzen 1st Gen.

 

[murky66]

Going out on a limb here, didnt AMD start dropping older CPU support on their new bios to allow room for the 5000 series cpus. I thought it was after you get to a certain bios the first gen cpus were dropped.


But hey i could be talking out of my butt

The BIOS notes definitely mention dropping support for Bristol Ridge, but it doesn't mention anything about dropping support for any other cpus. I do have a couple of 5000 series chips around, but they are in working machines. I could try one though with a lot of effort.

Edit: I noticed you said AMD dropped support, not gigabyte. Do you mean the Agesa code doesn't support them possibly?

 

[murky66]

You're absolutely correct. That is a thing. I specially think given the AB350 is 1st gen mobo as such, that it most certainly did drop support for Ryzen 1st Gen.

Hmm, I will pursue this then and try a 5000 series chip in the board.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Hmm, I will pursue this then and try a 5000 series chip in the board.

Yeah, might be an idea just to see if it posts with no issues.

 

[murky66]

Yeah, might be an idea just to see if it posts with no issues.

Well, that didn't help. It was good to try it though. It's so strange how the board reacts. On the first boot with a 5950X installed, the boot took 30 or 45 seconds and you can hear the cpu fan speed up and slow down a few times as the board figures out what to do. Then after that first boot, if you power off and back on, the boot process is quick, like just a few seconds. If I switch to a different cpu or clear the cmos, the long boot will occur again on that first time.

I'll try getting a PS/2 keyboard for cheap to just try that and then if that doesn't help, I will try shorting the main bios chip. If anyone has a tip on doing that, please chime in. I saw some instruction about that somewhere, but I will have to search again to find it.

Thanks

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

You clear it by switching a jumper and taking battery out: https://download.gigabyte.com/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-ab350m-d3h_e.pdf

Section 13. CLR_CMOS

This is actually what I meant when I suggested clearing CMOS. If you only took the battery out, and or just pressed a button on the mobo (which some mobo's have), then this may not have cleared as needed.

 

[murky66]

You clear it by switching a jumper and taking battery out: https://download.gigabyte.com/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-ab350m-d3h_e.pdf

Section 13. CLR_CMOS

This is actually what I meant when I suggested clearing CMOS. If you only took the battery out, and or just pressed a button on the mobo (which some mobo's have), then this may not have cleared as needed.

I went through that again just now, exactly as described in that section of the manual. Same result. Thanks though for the suggestion.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

I went through that again just now, exactly as described in that section of the manual. Same result. Thanks though for the suggestion.

Ah, man. Running out of solutions.

Trying the PS/2 keeb/mouse might work. Let us know how that goes.

 

[Moonstick2]

...if that doesn't help, I will try shorting the main bios chip. If anyone has a tip on doing that, please chime in. I saw some instruction about that somewhere, but I will have to search again to find it.

You have to short Pins 1 and 6, and you need to be very sure you know which they are. Pin 1 should be marked, and they normally count anticlockwise. If you're lucky, the corner pins will be numbered on the board itself (1,4,5,8).

Also, check that you actually do have a backup BIOS chip. The official version of your board does so you probably should have.

 

[faalin]

Well, that didn't help. It was good to try it though. It's so strange how the board reacts. On the first boot with a 5950X installed, the boot took 30 or 45 seconds and you can hear the cpu fan speed up and slow down a few times as the board figures out what to do. Then after that first boot, if you power off and back on, the boot process is quick, like just a few seconds. If I switch to a different cpu or clear the cmos, the long boot will occur again on that first time.

I'll try getting a PS/2 keyboard for cheap to just try that and then if that doesn't help, I will try shorting the main bios chip. If anyone has a tip on doing that, please chime in. I saw some instruction about that somewhere, but I will have to search again to find it.

Thanks

The first slow boot is doing memory learning, even setting the EXPO in the bios it will still try to optimize other setting around the ram speed. Once it has done that, second and other boots will be faster. Clearing the cmos or switching CPU's clears those settings and it has to do the memory learning again.