Phenom 2 920 and 940 Benchmarks

[JAYDEEJOHN]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-gaming,2061.html

If you take a look at the scaling it's very dependent on the software more than the hardware. Ph1 even does a "decent" job on some of the titles though obviously not as well as c3e or ci7. If the ph2 is am to at least match up to a c2e and do so at a decent price I wouldn't be surprised to see AMD market share improve. Especially looking at the price differential for ci7 and c2e.

Ci7 ~ $1000 top end, $500 mid, $250 low
C2E ~$1400 or $1000
C2Q ~$500 top end $136 for a q6600
Ph1 ~ $160 top end =/

Supposing that pricing denotes it's expected performance then wouldn't you figure that the Ph2 will perform similarly to a mid range Ci7. Firguring that AMD prices it's hardware in a similar way to how ATI vs Nvidia came out?

Also the Ph1 isn't really a bad cpu, yes AMD has an OC'ing deficit compared to Intel but expecting a 50% oc only really became the norm with a c2d more typical oc prior to that was around 20% which is on par with AMD's cpu's.

For myself if the Ph2 offers performance on par with an Intel midrange ci7 and have the ocing characteristics that have been reported so far and manage to do so at a cheaper price ($340 expected retail or 32% cheaper than midrange ci7) then why wouldn't you want to pick one up? Just waiting to see the game benchmarks and reviews before settling on which way to go.

If that pricing ever came to exist, what some people dont realize is, this would harm Intel very very badly. Everyone currently knows that AMD is having a tough tough time, and Intel so far has been able to show some strength, even in this current market...BUT, if this were to occur, and those prices began to come out, Intel wouldnt look too good. Remember, its what are you doing for me NOW attitude when it comes to stock holders, and thats the problem with the system now, stockholders wont hold for this. So, price wars dont really help Intel, even in their current position. This will, unlike some people think, put alot of strain on Intel, as its them that has alllll those fabs to keep busy

 

[baldinie]

Thats another point that i forgot about, (thanks for the reminder jay). AMD is a lot smaller than intel and can shift change quickly, refocus production on certain products etc.. where as intel a big beast in comparison. But also, intel's profits are down a lot lately, and its share holders aren't happy, so they wont want a price war. They'll expect intel to sell at high prices. and in the current climate, how much of a market do you really think they'll be for intel's 1000$ cpu's? or any expensive parts? the mainstream will be the battle ground in 2009.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Actually, Im a Husker fan, tho itd been nice to see PSU beat USC, or as they say here in good ol caleyeforneyeaye, the Uni of spoiled children. Like I said, this is AMDs intent. How it plays out is who knows? But it will mean cheaper cpus

 

[radnor]

No, they dont. There are only a few companies that "finds these times as the MOST ooportunistic of times.". Unfortunately for them, AMD is not one of those companies which offers anything to make this a boon situation for them...niether for that matter is intel.

Necessity is mother of inovation. WWII was a horrible period, and advanced so much tecnologically. But this ain't WWII. Just a financial crisis.

They manufacture a product for which demand is shrinking. The actual market itself is shrinking and lower prices are unlikely to change that. Ther are going to be far fewer start ups for the forseeable future, and as more companies go out of business, (9000 retail stores alone are predicted to close this year...just in the US) not only are prospective expansion sales to those companies lost, but their equipment with be sold off. If the predictions are correct, the market very well be may flooded with used systems, no small number of which will be in good condition and of competative performance.....and at CH11 auction prices. Furthermore, the trend now, as has been for several years, is towards mobile. DT is slowly dying in the consumer market, and enterprise is on the rocks for the time being. For the first time in years, Intel is offering actual competiton in server, and they are already miles ahead of AMD in mobile it terms of marketshare/stability.

DT is now growing. Lappys are growing faster. Thus more market share. The smaller lapwarmers (netbooks) are riggin the statistcs because they are new and cheap !!

On a more serious note, enterprise is not on the rocks. Is pretty much alive. Just because some silly companies (well, most of them) preemptivly fired people, doesn't mean they aren't in a very good financial shape or in a very good fiscal year. CEOs can be extremely dumb and history has told that too many times.

■AMD is presenting a good product once more in server market. The thing is, Flash BIOS and pay ONLY for the cpu upgrade.
■Intel is presenting a good product once more in server market. The thing is, you got to buy everything from scratch.

Who will sell more cpus might be diffeent from who has more profit. Honestly ? Intel might pull a Vista on this one.
And by that i dont mean a over priced i7. I mean the Xeon vs Opteron.

What you keep 'not getting' about these dynamics you are trying to speak of is that the 'supply' of lower prices is moot.....becaase the 'demand' is going away across the board. People are not going to say, "hey, lets skip all meals and a mortgage payment this week becuase AMD PII is real cheap". Unemployment will keep rising, companies will keep cutting costs, combining or going CH11 all of which means that not only is individual discretionary income evaporating, but corporate funds are drying up as well. And honestly, DT is not the place to compete.

Jay, I really suggest you start reading the financial news...the cascade effect and how it is and will continue crippling the economy.

Jay does need to be in touch with news. But they economy is hardly that crippled. Please, don't spread panic.
If governments get out off money, they make more and reduce its value. It is the way of the "fake" money we use everyday.
The financial markets yes, but by god I hoped no bailout to help them. Lately they were a inflacionist element with no wealth generation attached. They should have gone the way of dodo.

Comercial Banks are pretty wealthy and healthy ya now ?

But don't worry too much about AMD and Intel not thriving with they "new" products. They still sell loads of old ones, and to beat this crisis they have sucessfully diversified. Of course the Core bussiness is always important.

Peace yall !!

 

[dragonsprayer]

intel prices have consistently moved and rotated the sweet spot dropped from $500 to $300-$350 when amd lauched the first dual core and then launched the native quad core word of mouth war

2002 3.0C northwood my fav! ran mine at 3.6ghz on shuttle until last year still responsive overclocker until the psu died keep in box to resurrect for the intel silicon museum one day!

2004 sweet spot 560j (4.1ghz at 920fsb) $500 top 580 3.8ghz extreme chip $1000
2005 sweet spot - bad times for intel none 955-965EE $1000 965EE (4.5ghz on air or water) final and decent p4 dual $1000 w/ ht
2006 sweet spot E6600 (3,4ghz) $350 qx6800 $1000
2007 sweet spot q6600 (3.4ghz) $350 qx6700 $1000
2008 E8500 (3.8-4.2ghz) Q9450-Q9550 sweet spot at $300 but with too high bus, Q9650 $1000 (qx9770 is freak of nature only idiots pay $1500 for that cpu!)
2007 i7 920 $300 965EE 1000

amd price war brought the sweet spot down to $300-350 range

not only that but the speed has remained very consistent at 3.6-4.2ghz since 2003 - at the point the elections zap through the insulation of the micro wires (or conduits or what ever)

boy that was poorly written

 

[roofus]

i think only as fool would think otherwise baldinie. the question is can they weather the financial hits that they will all be feeling ( yes even precious Intel) in the tech sector. i see alot of mid to low range graphics cards getting gobbled up in the near future to try to limp inadequate computers by as long as possible. the p2 would fit in the upgrade catagory nicely but the majority of crap OEM desktops are Celeron deadend machines. they will sell some ( i am buying one!)but i dont see any champaigne bottles uncorked in the next two months.

 

[radnor]

boy that was poorly written

Don't worry, i speak Galician, Spanish, Portuguese and English during the course of my work day. When i arrive friday at home my wife never understands a thing of what i've said.

She just lets me cook quietly and peacefully. Who said life isn't good ?

 

[Dekasav]

Here's the beautiful thing about financial/economic reports: no one actually knows. If you both have reports, one says slight growth and the other says slight shrinking, they could both be very close. What's much more certain, is that the computing market isn't going to grow quickly, and that's worse for AMD (broke) than Intel (sitting on cash).

You know one thing I do know, that the US gov't is bloody broke, and needs to sell a nuke to China for $20 Billion.

*edit* This is about 10 posts later than I thought it would be.

 

[baldinie]

just be glad you dont have our useless labour government! gordon brown and darling, couldn't manage a piss up in a brewery, just throwing money away on their buddies at the banks!

 

[roofus]

If that pricing ever came to exist, what some people dont realize is, this would harm Intel very very badly. Everyone currently knows that AMD is having a tough tough time, and Intel so far has been able to show some strength, even in this current market...BUT, if this were to occur, and those prices began to come out, Intel wouldnt look too good. Remember, its what are you doing for me NOW attitude when it comes to stock holders, and thats the problem with the system now, stockholders wont hold for this. So, price wars dont really help Intel, even in their current position. This will, unlike some people think, put alot of strain on Intel, as its them that has alllll those fabs to keep busy

jaydee i have respect for your entheusiasm. problem is that made no flipping sense lol. strain? investors getting miffed? no, this is called now they cant play solitaire in the CPU market. good lord they are selling their stuff at such high volume and overpriced i would bet they could cut the cost 40% and still be operating in the black. this isnt Nvidia it's Intel. they dont sit pompusly assuming people will still clamour to their offerings. they sell them high because they can. they scale prices according to what is parallel and then go a little higher or lower depending on what they can get away with. people buy them and that is exactly the excitement about the P2. the have-nots with 775 LGA's see this as a chance to get what they want cheaper, not change platforms.
is this going to up end the server market? not likely. desktop market? to some degree. i would imagine IF AMD can do a better job of keeping OEM's supplied ON TIME they could gain some perecntage points back there but not immediately. they have alot of reconciliation to do with vendors.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Understand, as you grow, you eat more, and now thats not true for Intel? Theyve become used to these numbers, but in profit, and their business is set to actually make so many products per day as well. Im not sure youre seeing what Im trying to say. Being bigger this time around may be more harmful than being smaller, as seen by those many large companies thatre struggling now. What makes Intel so different from them? And then, your competitor has come in with the possibility of not only possibly stealing some of your marketshare, but at decent pricing and performance as well? When it comes down to it, if someone needs a decently performing rig, its the total cost, and can all those mobo makwers etc doing a higher cost Intel cpu, the whole shebang, afford to lower its pricing? Seems to me, the cheapest decent rig for average Joe is owned by AMD

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

All Im trying to do here is dispel this perceived bulletproof Intel attitude here. If it applies to AMD, it could mean even more so for Intel, and thats what Im sauing

 

[dragonsprayer]

lol!
it cracks me up how fast some forget and how some had it good did never understand those who did not.

jeffery imit ceo of GE - this is the woars his gernation has seen! i guess he was not around when the entire us refractory business went from 500 comopanies to 10 then all went bankrupt

steel biz was hit 10 years ago and foreigns snapped it up - know it coming around to GE's stuff

normal 60 year down turn, it was offset (delayed) by 20 years of playing with the markets with money and creating bubbles.

people will dig in, inflation hits later, people will have money and spend it again and boom times again.

intel stock is undervalued but so are many stocks - they need to pay real dividend and stop pretending they are still a growth company - they are a value company

 

[NMDante]

All Im trying to do here is dispel this perceived bulletproof Intel attitude here. If it applies to AMD, it could mean even more so for Intel, and thats what Im sauing

Incorrect.

Intel has more free cash in its coffers than AMD has in total. If Intel is surprised by a fluctuation in the semiconductor market, it can survive. Can AMD say the same? If CPU prices crashed today, who do you think would be hurting more? Intel or AMD?

The simple fact is that you think that anything that affects AMD is magnified for Intel, since it's a larger company, but that is not true.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Don't worry, i speak Galician, Spanish, Portuguese and English during the course of my work day. When i arrive friday at home my wife never understands a thing of what i've said.

She just lets me cook quietly and peacefully. Who said life isn't good ?

Heh, I guess her cheering would deafen you if you also did the housecleaning

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Here's the beautiful thing about financial/economic reports: no one actually knows. If you both have reports, one says slight growth and the other says slight shrinking, they could both be very close. What's much more certain, is that the computing market isn't going to grow quickly, and that's worse for AMD (broke) than Intel (sitting on cash).

Also you need to know when those market prediction reports were made. If you're looking at one that's 4-5 months old, vs. one made yesterday, then that would make a world of difference as well. The latest reports I've seen indicate that neither Intel's nor AMD's revised Q4 earnings projections were accurate - the actual numbers will be much lower.

AMD likes to play some shell games with its financials so it will be harder to spot what is actually going on with them. But I'm suspecting some seriously bad news on Jan. 22nd. And not too good for Intel.

OTOH, I saw 2 reports on Motley Fool's - one stating you'd have to be an idiot to buy AMD stock right now and the other saying it's a golden opportunity . AMD's stock price did jump up by almost a whole quarter (as in 2 dimes and 4 pennies) today so I'm guessing the portfolio managers looked at the 2nd report.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

OK, so you think this is simply a AMD vs Intel battle here? That if AMD goes down, Intel wins? Thats not even where Im going with this, and having money is good, but again, its not bulletproof. I agree with dragon here. Intel in the cpu market is not a growing company, but a value company. Thats why were seeing more diserfication from Intel as this is a no brainer, why we see SSDs and Linux etc in the news, cause its exactly times like these where companies can make a killing. As for the cpu business, it becomes less and less for Intel, and all those things said about AMD, and whether they can do all these things, netbooks,gpus,cpus chipsets etc etc, so does Intel have to do them, and on a much larger scale, with many a more markets to compete in. So, sure, no problems

 

[Dekasav]

I think the best thing AMD has going for them is their IP is considered threatening to national defense. The US Gov't won't let AMD actually be taken over/bought by a foreign investor, therefore they're more likely to help AMD like they have with the banks/car companies. Why do you think they had to split the processor design and fabs for the Abu Dhabi deal; it's because there is no way the US Gov't would let anyone in the Middle East to own that kind of property. Processor design is valuable, fabrication tech isn't so dangerous (especially since TSMC has fabrication technology roughly equal to the US's.)

 

[spathotan]

Building anything in Israel has to be the dumbest idea in this history of modern business. Wow....

Anyways, the Q9650 is a waste of money.

 

[unclefester]

Many may not have noticed, AMD has already put the first beloved patriot in Intels armor.With AMD's marketing plot, I see quite a few fence sitters, unbiased enthusiast, and yes even hardcore Intel users refraining from pulling the trigger on a new Intel build,waiting to see how the PHII performs.
With an unsertain economic forcast, most people are a lot more fruggle with the extra expenditures, wanting to get the most value for their money (be it Intel or AMD).
Is Intel going to make a profit? Most sertainly. Are stockholders going to like? I don't think so. And if stockholders don't see their money making money ie... growth, they usually move to a growth company.
Facts are facts, but speculation is what drives the Market.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Well, all this deflects from whats going on . AMD is coming in with a new cpu. So far , it looks to be competitive, priced 50% higher than their old design, and even at that pricing, still affordable, cheap upgrade for AMD users, cheap platform for first buyers, and should do well with OEMs. If the market demands lower pricing, Im thinking both companies have plenty of room for adjustments. A price war is something neither company really wants to do now, and I dont care what anyone says, if the market can bare current pricing, there wont be alot of that going on, because of the current economic climate. Id watch for the higher clocked Intel chips to come down in price, but not alot more cpus, other than a lil shuffling of prices once P2 hits. Notice the "sales" weve seen from various places around the world on the i7 920, as Im sure Intel wants to showcase their new skt, and this is a small way of doing so. Notice also how HP is petitioning Intel on their usage of the Atom chip, and how that plays out will have a direct effect on alot of these things

 

[spathotan]

The atom chip isnt even that great. Low power and thats it, the few netbooks ive used with the 1.6ghz Atom in them have been sluggish and slow. Its a fad chip, only being used because there is nothing else comparable. HP will get over it easily.

As far as AMD goes....without a doubt Deneb is being pumped up way to much here. Im not targeting you jdj, I know you are excited about the chip as many people are, but all in all its not really THAT great. Weve heard the "well it needs to get past the Q6600 at least" arguments and bashing, and we have seen that it can and does "beat" the Q6600 in these preview benchmarks (except the ones roadrunner has seen, according to him the Q6600 crushes the P2 940). But the Q6600 is a 2 year old chip, its a relic...literally....its being phased out and will dissapear in a few weeks., and just because Deneb passes it in some of these preview benchmarks, that's not exactly an amazing feat by any standards. And the Q6600 wont even be the target anyways since its being phased out, it will be replaced in price by the Q9300/Q9400 after price drops.

Q8200/Q8300 - $120
Q9300/Q9400 - $165
Q9550 - $240
Q9650 - $350

Those are my guestimations, while they may be a little too low. The Q8200/8300 will be used to finish off existing Phenom X3's and low X4's, Q9300/9400 to replace the Q6600 at that price range and finish off existing mid to high end Phenom X4's, Q9550 to challenge the P2 925/940, and Q9650 to stop the AM3 945. Intel already has the tools to battle Deneb, they have for ages. Now its just about putting them in the right place at the right time, and using their hefty marketshare (aka LGA 775 motherboard owners) to their advantage.

 

[baldinie]

the atom got beaten at everything by via's nano. now thats a small company! AMD is huge compared to them!

has anyone got on sales figures for the i7? i really cant see them being that great. plus why are intel fanboys so blindsighted and aggressive?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Theres a problem tho. The design is almost too small, and large fingers, bad eyes etc need something bigger. Going larger impedes in the regular cpu market, and thats where the cutoff happens, and the dual Atom will be here with better capabilities, as well as a better chipset design, so it opens up a whole new angle, and meanwhile, Arm,AMD and VIA are creeping into this category, and whats surprising is, while theres those that sau of course, Intel doesnt want to compete with itself, alot of those people are also saying, look, AMD is failing because they arent in this, but again, unless its exclusive, it may turn out to be harmful to AMDs sales as well, and I believe this has also played a part in AMDs plans

 

[fazers_on_stun]

OK, so you think this is simply a AMD vs Intel battle here? That if AMD goes down, Intel wins? Thats not even where Im going with this, and having money is good, but again, its not bulletproof. I agree with dragon here. Intel in the cpu market is not a growing company, but a value company. Thats why were seeing more diserfication from Intel as this is a no brainer, why we see SSDs and Linux etc in the news, cause its exactly times like these where companies can make a killing. As for the cpu business, it becomes less and less for Intel, and all those things said about AMD, and whether they can do all these things, netbooks,gpus,cpus chipsets etc etc, so does Intel have to do them, and on a much larger scale, with many a more markets to compete in. So, sure, no problems

I don't follow your reasoning, not to mention who you're replying to . But peculiarly enough, it occurs to me that having money when you need it, is a lot better than not having money when you need it, and especially when you can't even borrow it. I believe that even a casual perusal of history will show that the large companies usually ride out troubled times far better than the small ones, especially small ones that have certifiably poor management skills.

As for Intel being a "value" company, as far as I can see AMD is a shrinking, if not shriveling company. How does that enable AMD to make a killing? Because it's smaller and thus more nimble? Methinks you've been watching too many dragonball-z cartoons .