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Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
Lawsuit Against NCsoft

Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable decision;
judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and throws out
trademark claims

LOS ANGELES, March 11, 2005-A U.S. district court judge in Los
Angeles dismissed several key claims by comic book publisher Marvel
Enterprises, Inc in the company's trademark and copyright
infringement case against online computer game publisher NCsoft®
Corporation and game developer Cryptic Studios™. Marvel sued NCsoft
and Cryptic Studios in November of last year, claiming that the City of
Heroes® online computer game allows players to imitate comic book
characters owned by Marvel.

In a March 9 order, U.S. District Court Judge R. Gary Klausner agreed
with NCsoft that some of Marvel's allegations and exhibits should be
stricken as "false and sham" because certain allegedly infringing
works depicted in Marvel's pleadings were created not by users, but
by Marvel itself.

The judge also dismissed more than half of Marvel's claims against
NCsoft and Cryptic Studios, including Marvel's claims that the
defendants directly infringed Marvel's registered trademarks and are
liable for purported infringement of Marvel's trademarks by City of
Heroes' users. In addition, he dismissed Marvel's claim for a
judicial declaration that defendants are not an online service provider
under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The judge dismissed all of
these claims without leave to amend, meaning that Marvel cannot refile
these claims.

Although the judge allowed certain claims to survive the motion to
dismiss, NCsoft and Cryptic Studios are pleased with the result and are
confident that both the law and the facts will support their case. In
fact, citing a 1984 Supreme Court case holding that the sale of video
cassette recorders did not violate copyright law, the Court noted that
"It is uncontested that Defendants' game has a substantial
non-infringing use. Generally the sale of products with substantial
non-infringing uses does not evoke liability for contributory copyright
infringement." Only "where a computer system operator is aware of
specific infringing material on the computer system, and fails to
remove it, the system operator contributes to infringement," the
Court stated.

The defendants have 10 days in which to answer and dispute Marvel's
allegations and to assert legal defenses to the remaining claims as
well as to assert any counterclaims.


About NCsoft North America
NCsoft - North America (NC-NA) is headquartered in Austin, Texas and is
part of Korea-based NCsoft Corporation. NC-NA, with development and
administrative offices in Texas and California, launched two
ground-breaking titles in the first half of 2004, Lineage® II and City
of Heroes. The company also works with NCsoft subsidiaries and third
party developers throughout North America to develop and publish
innovative online entertainment software products. More information
about NCsoft - North America can be found at http://www.PlayNC.com.

About Cryptic Studios
Cryptic Studios, Inc., located in Los Gatos, California, was
established in July of 2000 and is an independent developer of
massively multiplayer online games for the PC and next generation
consoles. Its first game, City of Heroes, launched in April 2004. The
game takes place in a virtual world where thousands of people play
simultaneously, take on the role of super-powered heroes, fight
villains and help create a dynamic story in a visually-stunning, 3-D
graphical world.


NCsoft, the interlocking NC logo, Lineage and all associated NCsoft
logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCsoft
Corporation. City of Heroes is a registered trademark of Cryptic
Studios, Inc. and NCsoft Corporation. Cryptic Studios is a trademark of
Cryptic Studios, Inc. All other trademarks are the property of their
respective owners.

Article link:

http://plaync.com/about/2005/03/federal_judge_d.html

You can taunt Marvel here:

http://www.marvel.com/company/feedback.htm
 
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I fear they will be after my colored pencils next, since I've used them to
draw superheros resembling many Marvel-owned characters.
 
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Alex Mars wrote:
> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
> Lawsuit Against NCsoft


Too bad Marvel can't come up with some decent superhero
RPG's of their own. They'd be better off hiring Cryptic
Studios to make a Marvel superhero based RPG than trying to
sue them.
 
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"Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:

> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>
> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable decision;
> judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and throws out
> trademark claims

Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was piss
off fans.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 

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On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
> "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>>
>> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable decision;
>> judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and throws out
>> trademark claims
>
> Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was piss
> off fans.
>

Piss off who? It's funny to see people not care about what
Blizzard did some years ago when they got the bnetd people to
stop distributing bnetd, and then see them lash at Marvel for
protecting their intellectual property.

Hippocrates.
 
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"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9617D51FFC544knight37m@130.133.1.4...
> "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>>
>> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable decision;
>> judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and throws out
>> trademark claims
>
> Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was piss
> off fans.
>
> --
>
> Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com
>
> Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.

I'm not "pissed off" or surprised.

Once Marvel became a publicly traded company they sunk to a new low because
it became about making "good" money. Not about making "good" comics.

Cheers, Reddog
 
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shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:

> On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>> "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>>> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>>>
>>> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable
>>> decision; judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and
>>> throws out trademark claims
>>
>> Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was
>> piss off fans.
>>
>
> Piss off who? It's funny to see people not care about what
> Blizzard did some years ago when they got the bnetd people to
> stop distributing bnetd, and then see them lash at Marvel for
> protecting their intellectual property.
>
> Hippocrates.

First of all the word I think you're trying to say is "hypocrite".

Hippocrates was the greek physician who is traditionally (but erroneously)
given credit for the Hippocratic Oath, which among other things, is an oath
doctors take "to do no harm" etc etc. Hippocrates is considered to be the
"father of modern medicine" because he rejected superstition and treated
medicine like science.

Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove what I
said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
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"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9618635FD747Dknight37m@130.133.1.4...
> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>
>> On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>>> "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:
>>>
>>>> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>>>> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>>>>
>>>> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable
>>>> decision; judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and
>>>> throws out trademark claims
>>>
>>> Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was
>>> piss off fans.
>>>
>>
>> Piss off who? It's funny to see people not care about what
>> Blizzard did some years ago when they got the bnetd people to
>> stop distributing bnetd, and then see them lash at Marvel for
>> protecting their intellectual property.
>>
>> Hippocrates.
>
> First of all the word I think you're trying to say is "hypocrite".
>
> Hippocrates was the greek physician who is traditionally (but erroneously)
> given credit for the Hippocratic Oath, which among other things, is an
> oath
> doctors take "to do no harm" etc etc. Hippocrates is considered to be the
> "father of modern medicine" because he rejected superstition and treated
> medicine like science.
>
> Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove what I
> said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.
>

Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.
 
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:15:01 -0500, "Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote:

>"Knight37" <knight37m@email.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns9618635FD747Dknight37m@130.133.1.4...
>> shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>> On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>>>> "Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> once tried to test me with:
>>>>
>>>>> Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>>>>> Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>>>>>
>>>>> Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable
>>>>> decision; judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and
>>>>> throws out trademark claims
>>>>
>>>> Excellent. Marvel sunk to a new low with this, and all they did was
>>>> piss off fans.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Piss off who? It's funny to see people not care about what
>>> Blizzard did some years ago when they got the bnetd people to
>>> stop distributing bnetd, and then see them lash at Marvel for
>>> protecting their intellectual property.
>>>
>>> Hippocrates.
>>
>> First of all the word I think you're trying to say is "hypocrite".
>>
>> Hippocrates was the greek physician who is traditionally (but erroneously)
>> given credit for the Hippocratic Oath, which among other things, is an
>> oath
>> doctors take "to do no harm" etc etc. Hippocrates is considered to be the
>> "father of modern medicine" because he rejected superstition and treated
>> medicine like science.
>>
>> Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove what I
>> said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.
>>
>
>Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.

nice. *golf clap* :)

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
 
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"Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote in message
news:3b1Zd.1026$Jd2.65578@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.

Hey, never kick a man in his Socrates.
 

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On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:

> Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove what I
> said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.

It is. You love WoW and Blizzard (and posted many times defending
them) even though Blizzard stopped a bunch of hobbiests from
releasing a bnet clone server.

What's the difference between Marvel and Blizzard? They'll both
send you a cease and desist letter if they think you're using
their intellectual property.
 

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On 2005-03-13, Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
> "Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote in message
> news:3b1Zd.1026$Jd2.65578@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.
>
> Hey, never kick a man in his Socrates.

It was early in the morning and I made a silly spelling
error. Now everyone comes out of the woodwork to kick me when I'm
already down.

Good job.
 
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In article <slrnd39g10.c9c.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>On 2005-03-13, Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
>> "Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote in message
>> news:3b1Zd.1026$Jd2.65578@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>> Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.
>>
>> Hey, never kick a man in his Socrates.
>
>It was early in the morning and I made a silly spelling
>error. Now everyone comes out of the woodwork to kick me when I'm
>already down.
>
>Good job.

Hey, it's Parmenides for the course on Usenet. You Kant expect people
to Aeschylus an opportunity for a good pun thread.

--
Kyle Haight
 
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"Alex Mars" <alexmars@aol.com> wrote:
>Federal Judge Dismisses Claims and Strikes Allegations in Marvel
>Lawsuit Against NCsoft
>
>Makers of City of Heroes online computer game score favorable decision;
>judge labels Marvel allegations as "false and sham" and throws out
>trademark claims
>
>LOS ANGELES, March 11, 2005-A U.S. district court judge in Los
>Angeles dismissed several key claims by comic book publisher Marvel
>Enterprises, Inc in the company's trademark and copyright
>infringement case against online computer game publisher NCsoft®
>Corporation and game developer Cryptic Studios™. Marvel sued NCsoft
>and Cryptic Studios in November of last year, claiming that the City of
>Heroes® online computer game allows players to imitate comic book
>characters owned by Marvel.

What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
responsible for their actions.
 
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"shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd39g10.c9c.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
> On 2005-03-13, Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
> > "Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3b1Zd.1026$Jd2.65578@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >> Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.
> >
> > Hey, never kick a man in his Socrates.
>
> It was early in the morning and I made a silly spelling
> error. Now everyone comes out of the woodwork to kick me when I'm
> already down.
>
> Good job.

Hey man I'm just joking around!
 
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:14:04 -0600, khaight@lefDELETEtistME.org (Kyle
Haight) wrotC:DRIVE_E

>In article <slrnd39g10.c9c.shadows@helena.whitefang.com>,
>shadows <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote:
>>On 2005-03-13, Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> wrote:
>>> "Grackle" <nowhere@lalaland.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:3b1Zd.1026$Jd2.65578@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>>> Hey dude, don't be such an Aristotle.
>>>
>>> Hey, never kick a man in his Socrates.
>>
>>It was early in the morning and I made a silly spelling
>>error. Now everyone comes out of the woodwork to kick me when I'm
>>already down.
>>
>>Good job.
>
>Hey, it's Parmenides for the course on Usenet. You Kant expect people
>to Aeschylus an opportunity for a good pun thread.

In this case, you're putting Descartes before the horse.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
 
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Cryptic messed up? lol you're on crack.
What you're seeing is progress. The first games were text based, can a
text based game be sued because it describes a hero just like Wolverine
but with a different name? I don't really think so.
What if in the future, a game's character creation gets so advanced
that you can pretty much recreate any face in the world, would Bill
Gates sue them because someone made a face just like his?
Marvel was just stupid with their decision. I think they had a Marvel
MMORPG in their planes, maybe even possibly designed, and saw CoH as a
really tough competition, maybe they played it and said 'damn, this is
much better than what we had designed' who knows
 
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:34:11 -0600, shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-13, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>
>> Secondly, if you're calling me a hypocrite, I'd like you to prove what I
>> said was hypocritical. Otherwise sit down and STFU.
>
> It is. You love WoW and Blizzard (and posted many times defending
> them) even though Blizzard stopped a bunch of hobbiests from
> releasing a bnet clone server.
Possibly because that was a *direct* copyright infringement whereas
Marvels' is a *couldpossiblybeifsomeonedecidestomakeone*.

> What's the difference between Marvel and Blizzard? They'll both
> send you a cease and desist letter if they think you're using
> their intellectual property.
Umm Marvel makes comic books and Blizzard develops computer games? I'll
admit there's a fine line, but in this case I think Marvel crossed it by
hypothosizing rather than direct citation. I don't begrudge either company
from protecting their rights - just be aware of the public opinion when
doing so.

--
RJB
3/14/2005 9:14:22 AM

Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system.
--P. J. O'Rourke
 
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:

> What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
> sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
> copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
> responsible for their actions.

It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
individuals.
--
RJB
3/14/2005 9:23:58 AM

On the mountains of truth you can never climb in vain: either you will
reach a point higher up today, or you will be training your powers so that
you will be able to climb higher tomorrow.
--Friedrich Nietzsche
 

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On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:
>
>> What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
>> sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
>> copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
>> responsible for their actions.
>
> It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
> individuals.

Cryptic allows you to create a character who has claws modelled
after a Marvel character. The claws look _very_ similar. Cryptic
did mess up and not the people who thought "oh look I can make a
character that looks like Wolverine."
 
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shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
>>>sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
>>>copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
>>>responsible for their actions.
>>
>>It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
>>individuals.
>
>
> Cryptic allows you to create a character who has claws modelled
> after a Marvel character. The claws look _very_ similar. Cryptic
> did mess up and not the people who thought "oh look I can make a
> character that looks like Wolverine."

But you can use the claws without looking like Wolverine too. This is a
non-issue. Just because you can look similar to Wolverine, doesn't mean
that Cryptic messed up. Hell, you can look similar to almost any comic
book character...Hell take a look at
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2664

They all look "similar" to some character or another....So what?
 
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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:56:05 -0600, shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 22:42:11 +0800, Bateau wrote:
>>
>>> What's with this "allowed people to" bullshit in courts these days. File
>>> sharing programs ALLOW people to pirate music. CoH ALLOWS players to
>>> copy superheroes. Back in the day it was up to individuals to be
>>> responsible for their actions.
>>
>> It's more cost effective to sue one corporation rather than 1000's of
>> individuals.
>
> Cryptic allows you to create a character who has claws modelled
> after a Marvel character. The claws look _very_ similar. Cryptic
> did mess up and not the people who thought "oh look I can make a
> character that looks like Wolverine."

Hmm then how come they didn't sue Wes Craven or New Line? I mean Freddy
Kreugar's claws look really similar to Woverines as well.
--
RJB
3/14/2005 12:00:25 PM

Doh!
--Homer Simpson
 

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On 2005-03-14, wolfing1@yahoo.com <wolfing1@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Cryptic messed up? lol you're on crack.
> What you're seeing is progress. The first games were text based, can a
> text based game be sued because it describes a hero just like Wolverine
> but with a different name?

Yes.

> I don't really think so.
> What if in the future, a game's character creation gets so advanced
> that you can pretty much recreate any face in the world, would Bill
> Gates sue them because someone made a face just like his?

Making strawman arguments doesn't help. Wolvervine has claws
which are also provided in a super hero setting in CoH. In fact
they look exactly like his claws coming out of the players hands.

Marvel wants a cut of the action because they are allowing people
to create Marvel characters.

BTW, your precious Cryptic is no better than Marvel. Have you
read the EULA? They banned people for writing an extraction
utility for the .pig file format they use. According to the user
agreement with Cryptic doing any kind of reverse engineering or
tinkering with their client is grounds to have your account
suspended.

You hypocrites sit around and get mad whenever a company defends
its IP but ignore the fact that your precious MMO developer is
just as guilty. Cryptic does everyhing it can in the EULA to take
away your rights and enforces it any chance they get. This
includes banning customers who decide to make simple mods for the
game like disable annoying sounds.

Go ahead. Cheer them on, or maybe take a moment to put together
an original thought that doesn't involve the stupid group think
that I see come up whenever poor Cryptic rips off Marvel, bans
its own customers for manipulating software they BOUGHT, and have
that idiot Statesman add twenty more hitpoints to all the mobs so
you're stuck playing longer.

Sheep.
 

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On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hmm then how come they didn't sue Wes Craven or New Line? I mean Freddy
> Kreugar's claws look really similar to Woverines as well.

Freddy isn't a superhero or villian. It's a completely different
genre. There's no confusion there.
 
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shadows wrote:
> On 2005-03-14, RJB <robartle@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Hmm then how come they didn't sue Wes Craven or New Line? I mean Freddy
>>Kreugar's claws look really similar to Woverines as well.
>
>
> Freddy isn't a superhero or villian. It's a completely different
> genre. There's no confusion there.

Freddy isn't a villain? I suppose there might be little confusion, but
really Freddy is just Wolverine in a stripped sweater.

Plus, Marvel should see sales going UP not down. Why? People WANT to
play their favorite super hero. Marvel just keeps sticking their heads
where the sun doesn't shine and they wonder why public opinion of them
is bad...