tiny voices
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Rammy
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I like the Leaf actually, it seems one of the more genuinely viable electric cars, but again for 99% of people it makes zero sense due to the price or the practicality. In the UK we have no infrastructure at all for electric car charging which really dents any kind of day-to-day driveability. Nobody buys cars entirely based on economic factors, but they aren't exactly cheap either.
It's only relatively recently that hybrid/electric cars are beginning to have any kind of positive environmental impact and a lot of that is simply due to them selling in greater numbers making the process more efficient.
I think it's interesting and genuinely exciting technology but I still view all of these cars as elaborate prototypes.
It's only relatively recently that hybrid/electric cars are beginning to have any kind of positive environmental impact and a lot of that is simply due to them selling in greater numbers making the process more efficient.
I think it's interesting and genuinely exciting technology but I still view all of these cars as elaborate prototypes.
tiny voices
Titan
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Until a Hybrid/ electric model is offered at the SAME price of a comparable gas/diesel model, they will never truly make 100% sense to own.
Rammy
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The thing that confuses me is electric versions of cars designed to hold a conventional engine+fuel tank. Those are very different systems with very different design requirements. Given how well packaged a modern car is, that can't be an easy process.
tiny voices
Titan
- Sep 6, 2012
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I agree. I don't think electric or hybrid cars are the future at all. I think they will die off in the next 10 years and everyone will be driving clean and VERY efficient small displacement turbocharged diesel powered cars.
People need to remember that we have only collected less than 1% of the oil on Earth. We are nowhere close to a fossil fuel shortage at all, and we never will be, EVER. Wars and politics are what keep petroleum prices up, not the actual fuel making process.
People need to remember that we have only collected less than 1% of the oil on Earth. We are nowhere close to a fossil fuel shortage at all, and we never will be, EVER. Wars and politics are what keep petroleum prices up, not the actual fuel making process.
Pcbuilder123
Honorable
- Jan 10, 2014
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Kinda like vr or 3d tv's, no?
Anyways, Mirka, how's the Nexus 6? What color did you get? Case or screen protector? How's lolipop? What phone you coming from? Sorry for all the questions, just might be an upgrade.
Anyways, Mirka, how's the Nexus 6? What color did you get? Case or screen protector? How's lolipop? What phone you coming from? Sorry for all the questions, just might be an upgrade.
Rammy
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I guess the most direct parallel is convertibles. Most convertibles are rubbish because they took a perfectly good car and cut an important bit off. I guess you can more or less package batteries however you like but don't they need cooling when there are that many of them? And I guess you can package an electric motor into something resembling a combustion engine, but what about the gearbox and all the other bits? Just seems like a really messy way to design anything and I don't like that.
I think the US seems to be catching onto the fact that smaller displacement doesn't equal smaller penis (I assume that's been the problem previously) though I guess when someone comes up with a 1L V8 we'll have a solution.
Jokes aside, I think hybrids are actually the immediate future until we come up with something better. Electric cars are hamstrung by the practicalities of use and the fact if we all got one our energy prices would soar - perhaps entirely removing the "cheap" running costs. When most of your electric power comes from fossil fuels, it's pretty stupid to think you are driving the "solution". Look at all of the new electric enhanced supercars hitting the market; that's how new tech should come in.
@ Tiny, I do agree that oil quantities can be understated but a lot of the oil that's left is increasingly hard to reach which will inevitably end up increasing the price and making other technologies increasingly viable.
I think the US seems to be catching onto the fact that smaller displacement doesn't equal smaller penis (I assume that's been the problem previously) though I guess when someone comes up with a 1L V8 we'll have a solution.
Jokes aside, I think hybrids are actually the immediate future until we come up with something better. Electric cars are hamstrung by the practicalities of use and the fact if we all got one our energy prices would soar - perhaps entirely removing the "cheap" running costs. When most of your electric power comes from fossil fuels, it's pretty stupid to think you are driving the "solution". Look at all of the new electric enhanced supercars hitting the market; that's how new tech should come in.
@ Tiny, I do agree that oil quantities can be understated but a lot of the oil that's left is increasingly hard to reach which will inevitably end up increasing the price and making other technologies increasingly viable.
- Jul 27, 2011
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I think hybrid electric will be the wave of the future. I remember reading about a Volkswagen prototype that was a hybrid diesel - electric model that got something like 350 miles to the gallon. That's insane.
Just great, the power supply on my White Knight rig finally kicked the bucket. So it looks like I'll be getting an EVGA G2 sooner than I thought.
tiny voices
Titan
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I have done a 6 month research project on this and it is 100% fact that, when including the manufacturing process, a 2013 Honda civic Hybrid has more negative environmental impact by the time it reaches the dealer lot to be sold, than a gasoline 2013 Honda civic does after manufacturing and 250,000 miles of travel burning through gasoline. It is AMAZING how awful for the environment the processes are for creating the batteries that go into these cars. Not to mention the extra transport (plane, truck, boat) required to get all necessary materials for these hybrid systems.
Electric cars are even worse. Anyone who claims an electric/hybrid car is better for the environment than a gasoline or diesel model is completely full of it and has no knowledge of the manufacturing process at all.
I think ceramic and composite engine building materials are the way of the future. Ford built a prototype 1L turbo 3 cylinder ceramic engine that made 300hp and got a calculated real-world 170mpg. The engine did cost a few hundred thousand to build though. Refining and making these engine building processes/ materials more affordable is, in my opinion, 100% the future of powered transport.
If you look at metal, in comparison to these ceramic based materials, it loses by factors of 10 in every category you can test. Metal plain sucks for these applications, but it is the only viable and readily available for cheap solution we have right now.
Electric cars are even worse. Anyone who claims an electric/hybrid car is better for the environment than a gasoline or diesel model is completely full of it and has no knowledge of the manufacturing process at all.
I think ceramic and composite engine building materials are the way of the future. Ford built a prototype 1L turbo 3 cylinder ceramic engine that made 300hp and got a calculated real-world 170mpg. The engine did cost a few hundred thousand to build though. Refining and making these engine building processes/ materials more affordable is, in my opinion, 100% the future of powered transport.
If you look at metal, in comparison to these ceramic based materials, it loses by factors of 10 in every category you can test. Metal plain sucks for these applications, but it is the only viable and readily available for cheap solution we have right now.
- Jul 27, 2011
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Yeah diesels should be more widely used, I agree there. When I was in the car buying process I really wanted to get a VW Passat TDI but I couldn't find any deals on one that weren't $500 below invoice.
tiny voices
Titan
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America needs to hurry up and embrace diesel for what it is. We are strongly considering a diesel VW for my GF's next car which we will be buying summer 2015.
Rammy
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- Sep 3, 2012
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Even more amusing is the fact a lot of these types of people buy a brand new car every couple of years as they can afford to, which makes the impact even worse.
I'd assume it came up in your research, what's the lifespan on a Civic Hybrid before you need to replace the batteries etc and it (probably) becomes more viable to scrap?
I'm pretty sold on the idea that for non-performance cars smaller engines should probably be turbo petrols and larger ones turbo diesels. My parents had a turbo diesel in the mid 90s that had the most hilarious turbo lag, but the tech has improved dramatically since then. I now know two people with tiny turbo petrol engines (1L EcoBoost and 0.9L Twinair) and while both seem to have a narrow power band they are remarkably speedy when you get it right.
I'd assume it came up in your research, what's the lifespan on a Civic Hybrid before you need to replace the batteries etc and it (probably) becomes more viable to scrap?
I'm pretty sold on the idea that for non-performance cars smaller engines should probably be turbo petrols and larger ones turbo diesels. My parents had a turbo diesel in the mid 90s that had the most hilarious turbo lag, but the tech has improved dramatically since then. I now know two people with tiny turbo petrol engines (1L EcoBoost and 0.9L Twinair) and while both seem to have a narrow power band they are remarkably speedy when you get it right.
tiny voices
Titan
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You get about 100k miles on the batteries(when driven ideally and properly charged. It has been shown that the battery units can die within 10k miles due to poor charging and driving techniques) before you have to replace the system, which costs $10,000 and is just as bad as building another car impact wise. Our research showed that without anything besides normal maintenance, a 2013 gasoline honda civic will reach 250k miles with no major repairs.
Plus it is worthy to note that when an independent research company, in 2011, bought 50 used Toyota Prius's all with 100k miles or more on them, and only 11 of them had properly functioning hybrid systems, and of those 11, 9 had been replaced completely and were not the OEM system.
The longevity of Hybrid cars sucks. It is mediocre at best. It hasn't been since the early 70s that a car was not expected to reach 100k miles with nothing more than routine maintenance. Modern gasoline and Diesel cars easily pass 200k and even 300k miles with minimal work and proper maintenance.
Plus it is worthy to note that when an independent research company, in 2011, bought 50 used Toyota Prius's all with 100k miles or more on them, and only 11 of them had properly functioning hybrid systems, and of those 11, 9 had been replaced completely and were not the OEM system.
The longevity of Hybrid cars sucks. It is mediocre at best. It hasn't been since the early 70s that a car was not expected to reach 100k miles with nothing more than routine maintenance. Modern gasoline and Diesel cars easily pass 200k and even 300k miles with minimal work and proper maintenance.
Rammy
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100K is a vast improvement over early models though. I seem to remember some of the early Insight/Prius models being less than a third of that (or somewhere in that range) before they needed a big overhaul.
My parents 90s diesel was still registered with the DVLA until a couple of years ago and when we got rid of it in the late 90s it had already done 120K miles. Those things last forever.
My parents 90s diesel was still registered with the DVLA until a couple of years ago and when we got rid of it in the late 90s it had already done 120K miles. Those things last forever.
tiny voices
Titan
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Let me rephrase that. The manufacturers state that they should make it to 100k. In the test I spoke about only 2 out of 50 cars made it to 100k miles on the original batteries and still functioned properly. So, no they do not make it to 100k rarely at all.
Diesels last FOREVER. An unreliable diesel will still have a much longer life than a very reliable gasoline motor. Diesel motors routinely outlast the cars they are put in. VW and Mercedes have some of the best. A TDI VW is not considered broken in until 200k. I am a member on the VW forums because I used to own one and in the high mileage thread, the TDIs are insane. Plenty of people with 500k+ on their TDI on the original motor which have never been touched.
Diesels last FOREVER. An unreliable diesel will still have a much longer life than a very reliable gasoline motor. Diesel motors routinely outlast the cars they are put in. VW and Mercedes have some of the best. A TDI VW is not considered broken in until 200k. I am a member on the VW forums because I used to own one and in the high mileage thread, the TDIs are insane. Plenty of people with 500k+ on their TDI on the original motor which have never been touched.
- Jul 27, 2011
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Argh so my power supply died on the White Knight and I'm torn between going with the Seasonic X 1250 which Newegg has on special for $129 today (marked down from $249) and NCIX has the EVGA Supernova G2 for $114 with a $20 rebate. I'm leaning more toward the Seasonic at this point because it's a much better deal but which one would be better?
Never mind, Newegg sold out right as I was about to pull the trigger. Grr..
Never mind, Newegg sold out right as I was about to pull the trigger. Grr..
Onus
Titan
- Jan 27, 2006
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Well, there's a $10-off deal on that 5350 at Newegg; I may not be able to resist that.
The thing people need to remember about Electric cars, and they don't, is that these cars are not "zero-emission vehicles;" they are "elsewhere-emission vehicles." Modern pollution controls on vehicles make them MUCH cleaner than typical fossil-fuel power plants. That said, with a daily commute of <15 miles each way, an electric vehicle with solar charging could conceivably make sense for me, but prices on them are ridiculous. An electric vehicle should be lighter and simpler than an internal-combustion car (counting a full fuel tank for the latter vs. batteries for the former), with no need of pollution controls, complex transmission, or as much cooling adding to weight, size, and price. Until prices come way down, they are indeed statements [of ignorance], not practical cars.
The thing people need to remember about Electric cars, and they don't, is that these cars are not "zero-emission vehicles;" they are "elsewhere-emission vehicles." Modern pollution controls on vehicles make them MUCH cleaner than typical fossil-fuel power plants. That said, with a daily commute of <15 miles each way, an electric vehicle with solar charging could conceivably make sense for me, but prices on them are ridiculous. An electric vehicle should be lighter and simpler than an internal-combustion car (counting a full fuel tank for the latter vs. batteries for the former), with no need of pollution controls, complex transmission, or as much cooling adding to weight, size, and price. Until prices come way down, they are indeed statements [of ignorance], not practical cars.
tiny voices
Titan
- Sep 6, 2012
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Very well put. I 100% agree.
I believe that electric cars should not be considered until their TEI (total environmental impact) is less than that of a gasoline model.
I believe that electric cars should not be considered until their TEI (total environmental impact) is less than that of a gasoline model.
- Jul 27, 2011
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Yeah they sold out right as I clicked the buy button... such is the luck I've been having lately. :lol:
So now I'm going back and forth between the Corsair HXi and EVGA P2. I'm definitely not going cheap this time around.
- Jul 27, 2011
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Yeah it does, right as I hit check out, I got a notice that says "Insufficient quantities available".
So now I'm back to the drawing board. I really want the P2 but it's quite a bit expensive, I'm also looking at the 1050W version of the Seasonic X since that's slightly cheaper. I'll probably get the 850W G2 from NCIX even though I've had problems with ordering from NCIX in the past. :lol:
- Mar 7, 2012
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I've never seen a Tesla before and never heard of one before this thread. South Carolina! Woot! lol
Turbo diesel? I like that, I could see my next truck being a turbo diesel. Although most of my work is about a 30 min drive, most of the trip is had at 45-60 MPH and my current truck ('13 RAM 1500 V8 4.7L Flexfuel) averages ~21MPG at that speed. My average is 19 MPG in a typical day. Which isn't terrible for a vehicle this size.
Turbo diesel? I like that, I could see my next truck being a turbo diesel. Although most of my work is about a 30 min drive, most of the trip is had at 45-60 MPH and my current truck ('13 RAM 1500 V8 4.7L Flexfuel) averages ~21MPG at that speed. My average is 19 MPG in a typical day. Which isn't terrible for a vehicle this size.
Mirakledba
Splendid
- Aug 1, 2013
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Just saw a tesla today lol. Looked HAWT. Anyway, Tiny, ALL ELECTRICS arent practical? The model s goes 265 miles on an 85% charge.
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