Tom's Two Million Contest

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ranij93

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Please read: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2969283/tom-contests.html


Please read: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2969283/tom-contests.html


Please read: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2969283/tom-contests.html

If italy is with the contest it must win, damn is should live in italy
 

McHenryB

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Same here. I'm in the UK, for God's sake. Are we second-class citizens?

The explanation is a cop-out. Why not have a few separate contests for the separate national sites?
 

Maarsch

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Cool stuff. 2 million is a big number.

Being a non-US resident I will not be participating, but do you sell those hammers somewhere btw? I'll be states side in May again.
Then again, I think I'll be carryon only. Getting a hammer through TSA might be tricky.
 

Titillating

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The various Tom's Hardware sites are not separated by nationality but by language. The UK site is essentially a mirror of the US site, with a few minor UK-specific additions.

The 2 million member mark was specifically in regards to the English-speaking community. The French and German communities frequently hold their own contests.

Even holding separate contests for each site would not circumvent the legal dilemma here, which is that we don't have lawyers situated in each country who are familiar enough with the local laws to draft up the necessary documents. Outsourcing legal work is not inexpensive, as we've tried explaining.

So yeah, we're sorry that it's played out this way and so many of our users are upset. We get it, we really do, which is why the whole explanation was put together in the first place. Obviously, we can't force anybody to believe our explanations, no matter how many times we reiterate it, but I hope nobody honestly believes that we do this out of spite or laziness.
 

McHenryB

Admirable
Obviously your laws in the US are horrendously complicated. In the UK it is very simple - if it's a free draw there are no restrictions. Which makes sense.

You don't need lawyers; you don't need documents drawn up; there are no legal dilemmas. Simple.
 


It never ceases to amaze me how so many out there think they know everything when in reality they know nothing of what they are talking about. So tell us McHenryB....what exactly is your legal expertise and experience in the international community?

 

AndrewJacksonZA

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To all the non-US complainers out there why you are always exlcuded from TH prize contests:

Don't blame Tom's Hardware. Blame your nation's politicians for having so many laws, regulations, and penalty taxes in place (like VAT) that it's not worth the trouble to go through all the red tape of bureaucracy in your nations. You elected your governments, now deal with the consequences.

If you don't like it, get involved in your nation's political process and change your government leadership. To get around these bureaucratic obstacles, it COSTS MONEY and like every other business in the real world, they have a BUDGET to work with!!!

***Tired Of Listening To Complaints Directed At The Wrong Party!***

The problem is in the US. Every EU site has worldwide contests. Why in the world would you need a lawyer for a worldwide contest?! how lame is that?
I am telling you how to do it. The international prizes go as "donations" to a Tom's employee, Tom's pay the US taxes,then, that "employee" sends the prize via UPS or w/e worldwide. Done. If shipping is to much of a cost, then just say"international winners, must pay the shippment"
Your site is a top class worldwide tech site, don't be lame.

Cool story @crisan_tiberiu, thats called fraud and not only would Tom's Hardware be liable but that "employee" would also be personally liable. @10tacle is pretty spot on, if you don't like the impacts of your governments laws get involved in the political process to change them.

-PopinFRESH

I'm with @crisan_tiberiu. @Eds, have Purch's lawyers evaluated this workaround? If so, please could we know what their response was?
 

McHenryB

Admirable


It's all explained quite clearly by the UK Gambling Commission who are the body who regulate any form of gambling, lottery, competition, etc.

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pdf/prize%20competitions%20and%20free%20draws%20-%20the%20requirements%20of%20the%20gambling%20act%202005%20-%20december%202009.pdf

Paragraph 4, Section 4.1 - Free draws are free of all statutory control.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many out there are unwilling to do a little basic research. Know-it-alls indeed.
 

Titillating

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This is called fraud. It's breaking a number of laws. More specifically, it involves tax fraud, illegal exports, and violation of FTC regulations.

 


Laughable. So if it's legal and easy in the UK, then it should be legal and easy in the US offering something in the UK (or anywhere else for that matter) as well? Tom's HQ is not located in the UK. The US has their our own state and federal gambling, sweepstakes, and lottery laws as well. But guess what? They are irrelevant to any contest outside the US.

And I'm going to paste again what a Moderator here posted previously:






 

McHenryB

Admirable


Yep. There's no problem with Tom's offering a free competition in the UK whether their HQ is here or not. The same law applies to any competition in the UK - we're not paranoid about foreigners, unlike some nations.

Hence my suggestion that separate competitions could be held in other countries, such as the UK, that have Tom's specific sites. Most companies manage to arrange international matters rather than behaving so parochially.

I guess the problem is that folks in the US are afraid to sneeze without consulting their lawyers first.
 

Titillating

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Please refer to section 1.4 of the document you provided, where it states:

Organisers of competitions and free draws should also be aware that although they fall
outside the ambit of the Gambling Act, there are other rules and regulations in place that
they need to consider when developing and running their schemes. These include unfair
trading and consumer protection laws and tax implications.

I would also point to section 4.3, as well as section 4.6 subsection (ii), where the language seems to indicate that phone and mail-in entries are required to be offered.

I could be misinterpreting that, but again, this is why we have our lawyers review everything to make sure we are fully compliant with any applicable laws. No sense in getting sued by an unhappy member while trying to give stuff away, right? :p
 

McHenryB

Admirable

According to the Purch web site:
We have 350 employees across the globe, with operations in the U.S., France, the UK, Italy, and Germany.
I find it difficult to believe that you run those operations in the UK with no knowledge of UK laws and no one to consult about legal matters concerning the UK.
 


Now you are just being juvenile.



All that costs money, and Tom's isn't "most companies." My guess is "most companies" you are thinking about are large ones with deep legal budget pockets. I've got a better solution:

Tom's needs to go to a premium service membership option where everyone pays an annual subscription, and ONLY those subscribers, international or otherwise, are eligible for any contests. That should cover legal and administrative costs of dealing with each nation's laws (like Italy requiring at least one winner must be from Italy).



 

Titillating

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Well, this is not going to happen haha. For one thing, we don't want to charge anybody for anything! That's a fairly extreme exclusionary tactic, which we'd like to avoid by any means possible.

Secondly, by only allowing paying subscribers to enter, that can be classified as "payment for entry" in various places, which turns these contests into a lottery—or in other words, a gambling operation, which opens up a whole new can of worms. Definitely want to avoid something like that, since we are not legally sanctioned to host any form of gambling (nor would we want to be!).
 


Yeah I know...that was a half-facetious comment. I know most purchase contests in the US require a no-purchase clause to mail in an entry or whatever without making a purchase...like buying a candy bar and looking on the inside of the wrapper to see if you won anything.

But in all honesty I understand everyone's frustration. I just do not understand that they do not believe you guys have either tried hard enough or have deep enough pockets to try making it legal for the world.

 
Congrats for the impressive two-millionth member mark guys! Really! KUDOS!

A Steam Giveaway is actually a great idea:
How about the near Tom's three Million Contest w/ Hardware prizes for us-members and Game prizes for no-us-members.

Anyway good luck for all american contenders :D
 
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