Upgrading classes

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:09:17 -0400, Rick Pikul <rwpikul@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 07:06:18 -0700, Shawn Wilson wrote:
>
>>
>> "Keith Davies" <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in message
>> news:slrnd5e3mc.b5b.keith.davies@kjdavies.org...
>>
>>> Fighters are much, *MUCH* higher level on average than commoners. The
>>> *only* reason you find *any* that are higher level than fighters is
>>> because there are so damn many of them.
>>
>>
>> It's not just that, high level Commoners are generally SIX levels higher
>> than high level Fighters.
>
> Only when there are orders of magnitude more commoners than fighters.
>When the populations are about equal you often get multiple epic-level
>fighters for every 5th+ level commoner.

Of course, apart from barbarian tribesmen where everyone's a warrior,
it is extremely screwy for there to be equal numbers of fighters and
commoners.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Time to step up the meds; I could have sworn Rick Pikul just said...
> On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 07:06:18 -0700, Shawn Wilson wrote:
>
> >
> > "Keith Davies" <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in message
> > news:slrnd5e3mc.b5b.keith.davies@kjdavies.org...
> >
> >> Fighters are much, *MUCH* higher level on average than commoners. The
> >> *only* reason you find *any* that are higher level than fighters is
> >> because there are so damn many of them.
> >
> >
> > It's not just that, high level Commoners are generally SIX levels higher
> > than high level Fighters.
>
> Only when there are orders of magnitude more commoners than fighters.
> When the populations are about equal you often get multiple epic-level
> fighters for every 5th+ level commoner.

Looks pretty safe to add statistics to the list of fields Shawn
understands poorly if at all, seeing that this is similar to the medical
test "paradox" that anyone with a competent familiarity with stats would
be well aware of.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:09:17 -0400, Rick Pikul <rwpikul@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 07:06:18 -0700, Shawn Wilson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Keith Davies" <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnd5e3mc.b5b.keith.davies@kjdavies.org...
>>>
>>>> Fighters are much, *MUCH* higher level on average than commoners. The
>>>> *only* reason you find *any* that are higher level than fighters is
>>>> because there are so damn many of them.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not just that, high level Commoners are generally SIX levels higher
>>> than high level Fighters.
>>
>> Only when there are orders of magnitude more commoners than
>>fighters. When the populations are about equal you often get multiple
>>epic-level fighters for every 5th+ level commoner.
>
> Of course, apart from barbarian tribesmen where everyone's a warrior,
> it is extremely screwy for there to be equal numbers of fighters and
> commoners.

Right. That's why we're saying "it only *looks* like commoners are
higher level". Statistically, given similar-sized populations, they
don't come close to reaching the same maximum level, let alone mean
level.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "English is not a language. English is a
keith.davies@kjdavies.org bad habit shared between Norman invaders
keith.davies@gmail.com and Saxon barmaids!"
http://www.kjdavies.org/ -- Frog, IRC, 2005/01/13

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:53:28 +0000, David Johnston wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:09:17 -0400, Rick Pikul <rwpikul@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:

>> Only when there are orders of magnitude more commoners than fighters.
>>When the populations are about equal you often get multiple epic-level
>>fighters for every 5th+ level commoner.
>
> Of course, apart from barbarian tribesmen where everyone's a warrior, it
> is extremely screwy for there to be equal numbers of fighters and
> commoners.

In another post I pointed out that there are as many commoners in a
village of 500 as there are fighters in an epic metropolis of 100,000.

--
Phoenix

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:55:41 -0400, Rick Pikul <rwpikul@sympatico.ca>
scribed into the ether:

>On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:53:28 +0000, David Johnston wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:09:17 -0400, Rick Pikul <rwpikul@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>
>>> Only when there are orders of magnitude more commoners than fighters.
>>>When the populations are about equal you often get multiple epic-level
>>>fighters for every 5th+ level commoner.
>>
>> Of course, apart from barbarian tribesmen where everyone's a warrior, it
>> is extremely screwy for there to be equal numbers of fighters and
>> commoners.
>
> In another post I pointed out that there are as many commoners in a
>village of 500 as there are fighters in an epic metropolis of 100,000.

Trying to sway Shawn from his current kook-rant with facts is like trying
to create a vacuum in a room by pushing the air out with your hands.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 14:59:53 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
<capt_malachias@hotmail.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Why would you say that?

Say what?


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Keith Davies wrote:
> David Johnston <rgorman@telusplanet.net> wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:09:17 -0400, Rick Pikul
<rwpikul@sympatico.ca>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 07:06:18 -0700, Shawn Wilson wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> "Keith Davies" <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote in message
> >>> news:slrnd5e3mc.b5b.keith.davies@kjdavies.org...
> >>>
> >>>> Fighters are much, *MUCH* higher level on average than
commoners. The
> >>>> *only* reason you find *any* that are higher level than fighters
is
> >>>> because there are so damn many of them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It's not just that, high level Commoners are generally SIX levels
higher
> >>> than high level Fighters.
> >>
> >> Only when there are orders of magnitude more commoners than
> >>fighters. When the populations are about equal you often get
multiple
> >>epic-level fighters for every 5th+ level commoner.
> >
> > Of course, apart from barbarian tribesmen where everyone's a
warrior,
> > it is extremely screwy for there to be equal numbers of fighters
and
> > commoners.
>
> Right. That's why we're saying "it only *looks* like commoners are
> higher level". Statistically, given similar-sized populations, they
> don't come close to reaching the same maximum level, let alone mean
> level.
>

So you are saying that the high level commoners are the ones who have
somehow beaten the odds and actually have taken out a few ogres, a
couple dragons, a horde of barbarians etc. Or at least been on the
winning team against such.

Lucky Piere.

- Justisaur

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Alex Lamb wrote:
>> I was going to say: [high-level commoners are] the ones who found a
>> source of water during a drought, organized the village to fight off
>> a locust swarm, found a new crop to grow when the old was killed off
>> by blight, ...

Justisaur wrote:
> *Bzzt* You are slipping into rural / farmer stuff again. High level
> commoners are almost exclusively city-folk.

Also, none of those challenges strike me as having a CR high enough for
a high-level character to actually earn XP for it. It's hard to judge,
since all of the would be ad-hoc awards. Also, there's the "Jessica
Fletcher" problem: I just don't see one person getting involved in
200-300 such situations in one lifetime, and that's how many even-CR
problems you need to hit 20th level. It's much more plausible to me that
they've been involved in a few war campaigns or heroic adventures (like
Bilbo Baggins).
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd5obvd.ifj.bradd+news@szonye.com...

> Justisaur wrote:
>> *Bzzt* You are slipping into rural / farmer stuff again. High level
>> commoners are almost exclusively city-folk.



I expect that this is just a symptom of granularity. A given village isn't
likely to have a high level commoner, but an assortment of 10,000 random
villagers from all over would have more high level Commoners than a single
city of 10,000.



> Also, none of those challenges strike me as having a CR high enough for
> a high-level character to actually earn XP for it. It's hard to judge,
> since all of the would be ad-hoc awards. Also, there's the "Jessica
> Fletcher" problem: I just don't see one person getting involved in
> 200-300 such situations in one lifetime, and that's how many even-CR
> problems you need to hit 20th level. It's much more plausible to me that
> they've been involved in a few war campaigns or heroic adventures (like
> Bilbo Baggins).


But then they'd be 'Burglars', not Commoners. Let's say ol' Zeke, the
archetypical 20th level Commoner, is about 70 and been gaining levels for 50
years. It takes about 250 encounters for a PC to get to 20th level, so we
ask ourselves, what kind of thing has Zeke faced 250 times? What sort of
adventure does a Commoner have 5 times a year? Mostly, I think, problem
solving type stuff, some wild animals, some bar fights, some bandits, some
soldiering as a peasant levy. He needs to keep pests away from his crops,
keep his animals healthy, deal with his lord, marry off his daughters,
convince adventurers to deal with threats he can't handle, plant the right
crops at the right time, cure his sick animals (and family), etc. How many
XP does he get for getting a knight to marry one of his daughters? I think
a lot.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Regarding high-level commoners:

Bradd wrote:
>> It's much more plausible to me that they've been involved in a few
>> war campaigns or heroic adventures (like Bilbo Baggins).

Shawn Wilson wrote:
> But then they'd be 'Burglars', not Commoners.

Some of them probably are burglars. You don't need rogue levels to
burgle houses. But note that I didn't say they'd all be exactly like
Bilbo, sheesh.

> It takes about 250 encounters for a PC to get to 20th level, so we ask
> ourselves, what kind of thing has Zeke faced 250 times? What sort of
> adventure does a Commoner have 5 times a year? Mostly, I think,
> problem solving type stuff, some wild animals, some bar fights, some
> bandits, some soldiering as a peasant levy ....

That's what /typical/ commoners do, but a 20th-level commoner is not
much like a typical 1st-level commoner, not much at all.

> He needs to keep pests away from his crops, keep his animals healthy,

In the city?
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd5okpe.jgv.bradd+news@szonye.com...

>>> It's much more plausible to me that they've been involved in a few
>>> war campaigns or heroic adventures (like Bilbo Baggins).
>
> Shawn Wilson wrote:
>> But then they'd be 'Burglars', not Commoners.
>
> Some of them probably are burglars. You don't need rogue levels to
> burgle houses. But note that I didn't say they'd all be exactly like
> Bilbo, sheesh.


'Burglars' are adventurers. Commoners aren't. The Commoner class
represents the non-adventuring majority of humanity. Commoners aren't
Bilbo. They don't have Rogue or Fighter or 'Burglar' levels. They don't
fight monsters. They dont't loot dungeons. If they did they wouldn't be
Commoners, they'd be Rogues or Fighters or 'Burglars'.



>> It takes about 250 encounters for a PC to get to 20th level, so we ask
>> ourselves, what kind of thing has Zeke faced 250 times? What sort of
>> adventure does a Commoner have 5 times a year? Mostly, I think,
>> problem solving type stuff, some wild animals, some bar fights, some
>> bandits, some soldiering as a peasant levy ....
>
> That's what /typical/ commoners do, but a 20th-level commoner is not
> much like a typical 1st-level commoner, not much at all.


Zeke has managed to overcome all his obstacles. Commoners who don't don't
get to be 20th level. Unlike adventurers they don't die in the process of
failing though.





>> He needs to keep pests away from his crops, keep his animals healthy,
>
> In the city?


I'm sure you can come up with mundane urban Challenges appropriate to every
level if you try.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>
> Also, none of those challenges strike me as having a CR high enough for
> a high-level character to actually earn XP for it. It's hard to judge,
> since all of the would be ad-hoc awards. Also, there's the "Jessica
> Fletcher" problem: I just don't see one person getting involved in
> 200-300 such situations in one lifetime, and that's how many even-CR
> problems you need to hit 20th level. It's much more plausible to me that
> they've been involved in a few war campaigns or heroic adventures (like
> Bilbo Baggins).

It bugs me that Tika Waylan is represented as a Rog/Ftr in the
DragonLance Campaign Setting. I know there is material in various
novels that justify this class choice, but judging from the Chronicles,
she seems like the perfect example of a leveled Commoner.

Feh.

-Will

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Will Green wrote:
>
> It bugs me that Tika Waylan is represented as a Rog/Ftr
> in the DragonLance Campaign Setting. I know there is
> material in various novels that justify this class
> choice, but judging from the Chronicles, she seems like
> the perfect example of a leveled Commoner.

Legacy. Tika Waylan was created during a time when there was no such
thing as the Commoner class (or NPC classes at all, for that matter).

--
Nik
- remove vermin from email address to reply.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>> Also, none of those challenges strike me as having a CR high enough for
>> a high-level character to actually earn XP for it. It's hard to judge,
>> since all of the would be ad-hoc awards. Also, there's the "Jessica
>> Fletcher" problem: I just don't see one person getting involved in
>> 200-300 such situations in one lifetime, and that's how many even-CR
>> problems you need to hit 20th level. It's much more plausible to me that
>> they've been involved in a few war campaigns or heroic adventures (like
>> Bilbo Baggins).

Will Green wrote:
> It bugs me that Tika Waylan is represented as a Rog/Ftr in the
> DragonLance Campaign Setting. I know there is material in various
> novels that justify this class choice, but judging from the Chronicles,
> she seems like the perfect example of a leveled Commoner.
>
> Feh.

Yeah, that's another good example.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Shawn Wilson wrote:
> "Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnd5okpe.jgv.bradd+news@szonye.com...
>
>>Some of them probably are burglars. You don't need rogue levels to
>>burgle houses. But note that I didn't say they'd all be exactly like
>>Bilbo, sheesh.
>
> 'Burglars' are adventurers. Commoners aren't. The Commoner class
> represents the non-adventuring majority of humanity. Commoners aren't
> Bilbo.

Don't be retarded. What fighting training did Bilbo have before he set
out on his adventure? In what way was he "elite?"

> They don't fight monsters. They dont't loot dungeons.

They would if they fought monsters and looted dungeons.

> If they did they wouldn't be
> Commoners, they'd be Rogues or Fighters or 'Burglars'.

Bollocks.

-Will

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Shawn Wilson wrote:
> "Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnd5okpe.jgv.bradd+news@szonye.com...
>
>
> >> He needs to keep pests away from his crops, keep his animals
healthy,
> >
> > In the city?
>
>
> I'm sure you can come up with mundane urban Challenges appropriate to
every
> level if you try.

I've yet to see anyone come up with one city non-combat city
appropriate challenge, let alone 250. It's you who are defending this
position of non-combat challenges, why don't you come up with
something?

- Justisaur

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Justisaur" <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113408293.067343.237970@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

>> I'm sure you can come up with mundane urban Challenges appropriate to
> every
>> level if you try.
>
> I've yet to see anyone come up with one city non-combat city
> appropriate challenge, let alone 250. It's you who are defending this
> position of non-combat challenges, why don't you come up with
> something?



I don't feel the urge. That it is possible is explicit in the very
existence of high level urban Commoners.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> Shawn Wilson wrote:
>
>>"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
>>news:slrnd5okpe.jgv.bradd+news@szonye.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>>>He needs to keep pests away from his crops, keep his animals
>
> healthy,
>
>>>In the city?
>>
>>
>>I'm sure you can come up with mundane urban Challenges appropriate to
>
> every
>
>>level if you try.
>
>
> I've yet to see anyone come up with one city non-combat city
> appropriate challenge, let alone 250. It's you who are defending this
> position of non-combat challenges, why don't you come up with
> something?

I have no stake in this discussion, but I'll give it a shot.

Non-combat, city appropriate?

FIRE!

DWS

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Serhienko wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:
> > Shawn Wilson wrote:
> >
> >>"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
> >>news:slrnd5okpe.jgv.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>He needs to keep pests away from his crops, keep his animals
> >
> > healthy,
> >
> >>>In the city?
> >>
> >>
> >>I'm sure you can come up with mundane urban Challenges appropriate
to
> >
> > every
> >
> >>level if you try.
> >
> >
> > I've yet to see anyone come up with one city non-combat city
> > appropriate challenge, let alone 250. It's you who are defending
this
> > position of non-combat challenges, why don't you come up with
> > something?
>
> I have no stake in this discussion, but I'll give it a shot.
>
> Non-combat, city appropriate?
>
> FIRE!

Actually that's a pretty reasonable suggestion. High level commoners
are on the fire brigade. Rescuing someone out of a burning building
should be worth a pretty hefty XP award, or possibly several if you
count it as multiple traps. One could extend that to other emergency
work as well.

Unfortunately a rogue or expert would be much better at this than a
commoner, but I can still see it.

- Justisaur

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Serhienko <david.serhienko@ndsu.nodak.edu> wrote:
>Justisaur wrote:
>> I've yet to see anyone come up with one city non-combat city
>> appropriate challenge, let alone 250. It's you who are defending this
>> position of non-combat challenges, why don't you come up with
>> something?

>I have no stake in this discussion, but I'll give it a shot.

>Non-combat, city appropriate?

>FIRE!

Only if you're an arsonist and setting the fire. If you're trying
to stop the blaze, then you're fighting the fire, and hence combat.

(grins, ducks, runs)

--
--DcB

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
>> I've yet to see anyone come up with one city non-combat city
>> appropriate challenge, let alone 250.

Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> *GREAT* *WORKS*.

That's a handwave, not an example. Also, you still have not explained
how a commoner performs a hundred of these "great works" in his
lifetime; you flunk the "Murder, She Wrote" test. High-level challenges
just aren't very common outside of war campaigns and other adventures.
However, even a very minor adventure (e.g., a one-session quickie) will
have a handful of monster and trap challenges, and a short campaign will
provide enough challenges to earn a level or two.

I can believe that these unusual commoners participate in a dozen wacky
adventures during their lifetimes, but I'm not buying your claim that
they perform hundreds of great works.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd5qlvc.nd0.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> Justisaur wrote:
> >> I've yet to see anyone come up with one city non-combat city
> >> appropriate challenge, let alone 250.
>
> Michael Scott Brown wrote:
> > *GREAT* *WORKS*.
>
> That's a handwave, not an example.

Bullshit. It is all one needs to say. You don't think the architects of
the tombs of Egyptian pharohs were other than very talented non-PC class
characterrs that should have warranted a *fat* experience point bonus for
their successful completion? Particularly given that, in that case, risk of
death was very much an issue (if not a certainty).

>Also, you still have not explained
> how a commoner performs a hundred of these "great works" in his
> lifetime;

Nor do I have to, STRAWMAN BOY. How many experience points is a great
work worth? Hmm? That's *right* - it's up to *me* (the DM). If one actually
cared about levelling mechanics for commoners, we could neatly divide a set
of tasks into town, city, county, and nationally-relevant works (a random
sampling of such challenges, in no particular order, would be "being the
mayor for a year", securing key trading rights, magnificent bouts of
agriculture, breeding new horses, masterwork architecture, staving off
plagues, yadda, yadda, yadda), and we could show how a "good citizen's"
career in civil service or his craft would provide him opportunities to
level.

> I can believe that these unusual commoners participate in a dozen wacky
> adventures during their lifetimes, but I'm not buying your claim that
> they perform hundreds of great works.

Good thing *hundreds* isn't necessary, halfwit.

My gods, man. You are so full of animosity you'd rather be an *idiot*
just so that you can disagree with me again and feel good about yourself?

Take your army of straw and put it where it belongs.

-Michael

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
>>>> I've yet to see anyone come up with one city non-combat city
>>>> appropriate challenge, let alone 250.

MSB wrote:
>>> *GREAT* *WORKS*.

Bradd wrote:
>> That's a handwave, not an example.

> Bullshit. It is all one needs to say. You don't think the architects
> of the tombs of Egyptian pharohs were other than very talented non-PC
> class characterrs that should have warranted a *fat* experience point
> bonus for their successful completion?

See, this is a concrete example. Now explain how a commoner is going to
do this kind of thing enough time to reach 20th level.

>> Also, you still have not explained how a commoner performs a hundred
>> of these "great works" in his lifetime;

> Nor do I have to, STRAWMAN BOY. How many experience points is a great
> work worth? Hmm? That's *right* - it's up to *me* (the DM).

If you're awarding more than one level's worth of XP, then I call
shenanigans. If not, you'll need at least a dozen of these great works
in a lifetime -- and that's a dozen works so great that they're worth
maximum experience (+7 CR). That simply isn't believable. Even legendary
geniuses like Leonardo didn't accomplish that much.

If you're positing more reasonable works (even CR), then you need to
show that a commoner will complete hundreds of them, about one every
month for his entire life. Good luck with that.

Or you could just admit that D&D only has one form of experience /fast/
enough to get you to 20th level in one lifetime, and that it's the sort
of experience that gives you more BAB, BSB, and hit points.

>> I can believe that these unusual commoners participate in a dozen
>> wacky adventures during their lifetimes, but I'm not buying your
>> claim that they perform hundreds of great works.

> Good thing *hundreds* isn't necessary, halfwit.

If you cheat at the XP rules, sure.

> My gods, man. You are so full of animosity you'd rather be an *idiot*
> just so that you can disagree with me again and feel good about
> yourself?

Tsk, tsk. You're suffering from Goslin Syndrome again, too proud to
actually think about what you're saying.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Serhienko wrote:
>> Non-combat, city appropriate? FIRE!

Justisaur wrote:
> Actually that's a pretty reasonable suggestion. High level commoners
> are on the fire brigade. Rescuing someone out of a burning building
> should be worth a pretty hefty XP award, or possibly several if you
> count it as multiple traps. One could extend that to other emergency
> work as well.

Yeah, it's a decent example. However, it wouldn't count as multiple
traps; see the DMG rules for forest fires. Also, it'd only get you to
14th level or so, since even large fires are only about CR 6.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Dave Butler wrote:
> If you're trying to stop the blaze, then you're fighting the fire, and
> hence combat. (grins, ducks, runs)

Heh. More seriously, coping with fires does involve hit points and
Reflex saves, so it does justify some increase in hp & BSB.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd