[SOLVED] Upgrading stock cooler for FX-8350 ?

[patelrom1992]

I am tired of the loud noise of my stock cooler on my FX 8350.
While gaming the temperature goes to 75° C and the fan is at 6000RPM.
I am using Open Hardware Monitor to monitor the temps.
The Motherboard shows 3 temperatures T1-40-45° C ; T2- 40-45° C ; T3-75° C
CPU temp: 45-50° C.
GPU Temp: 55-60° C.
The case fans are at 1400-1600RPM.

I was thinking about upgrading the stock cooler with an aftermarket cooler.

1. Cooler master Hyper 212 RGB Black Edition 120mm.
2. Cooler master Hyper 212 Red LED 120mm.
3. Cooler master Hyper 410R RGB Edition 92mm.

I have 2 doubts:

1. Should I go with an AIO Cooler or anyone from the above will work. ? ( I am not planning to OC )
2. If I go with anyone from the above will it fit in my Motherboard without blocking the RAM Slots.?

My system config:
MB: GA 78LMT-USB3 rev6
Processor: FX 8350
GPU: Nvidia GTX 770
PSU: Cooler master 550W.
RAM: 2x 4GB DDR3. ( only 2 slots working )
Case: Gigabyte C200.
Case fans: 1 exhaust at the rear (came with the case ) / 1 inlet in the front ( Arctic P14 PWM )

 

[4745454b]

You have problems. That 75C is your board, not cpu. The GA 78LMT-USB3 is a 760G board that wasn't designed to run 125W chips. You need to chill your board, not your cpu. Moving to a tower cpu cooler can make things worse. You need to find a way to cool your board.

The system as a whole is bad. The tech is 10+ yo. Moving to a 2200G would be a better idea. And use half the electricity.

 

[patelrom1992]

You have problems. That 75C is your board, not cpu. The GA 78LMT-USB3 is a 760G board that wasn't designed to run 125W chips. You need to chill your board, not your cpu. Moving to a tower cpu cooler can make things worse. You need to find a way to cool your board.

The system as a whole is bad. The tech is 10+ yo. Moving to a 2200G would be a better idea. And use half the electricity.

Could you suggest how can I cool my motherboard.?
Also as you said to upgrade to a 2200, can I use the current board with a 2200 ?

 

[madmatt30]

You have problems. That 75C is your board, not cpu. The GA 78LMT-USB3 is a 760G board that wasn't designed to run 125W chips. You need to chill your board, not your cpu. Moving to a tower cpu cooler can make things worse. You need to find a way to cool your board.

The system as a whole is bad. The tech is 10+ yo. Moving to a 2200G would be a better idea. And use half the electricity.

I dunno, that little Gigabyte board was always proven to manage 125w cpu's fairly admirably.

It would never have been first choice but it does 'ok'.

Better disabling turbo in bios though in all honesty, the base clock for 8 threads on the 8350 is 4ghz, the boost clock is only 200mhz higher, pushes extra voltage And drops 4 cores to 3.5ghz speeds.

In modern multithreaded apps 4ghz on 8 threads will perform better than turbo on half the cores and lower clocks on the rest.

It will run both cooler and quieter that way.

patelrom1992 - what country and budget do you have?

The 410r is not a great cooler, the 212 tends to have ram clearance issues on a lot of matx boards.

There are probably better options available.

 

[patelrom1992]

Looking at my current condition if in any case i need to change the motherboard I'll be needing to change the processor, rams, everything because its better to upgrade to more recent hardware.

I am from India and the budget for cooling fan is somewhere around 40-50$ ( 3000-4000₹ ).

 

[4745454b]

The problem with tower coolers is they provide less cooling to the board. You need a cooler that provides cooling to the board. Or find a way to strap a fan somewhere to provide cooling.

I dunno, that little Gigabyte board was always proven to manage 125w cpu's fairly admirably.

You might feel that way,i disagree. So many people have cone to this forum complaining about this board that i know it's model number. Time and again people come here with issues i would argue that while it can run this cpu, it can't well enough to do it well.

 

[Phaaze88]

Everything related to cpu temperature is wrong.
The sensors from the FX cpus do not report in real time, but Thermal Margin. Open Hardware Monitor can only do real time.
AMD Overdrive can read Thermal Margin: https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4645-amd-overdrive.html
FX-8350 has a Thermal Margin of 61C. This reading will count down as it warms up, and back up towards 61C as it cools down.


In summary:
-Cpu is most likely thermal throttling.
-Current mobo's ability to handle this cpu when it's not throttling is suspect. It's got a heatsink on the VRM, but it's just a 4+1 phase.
-Fan in the front of the C200 isn't helping things.

 

[patelrom1992]

Everything related to cpu temperature is wrong.
The sensors from the FX cpus do not report in real time, but Thermal Margin. Open Hardware Monitor can only do real time.
AMD Overdrive can read Thermal Margin: https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4645-amd-overdrive.html
FX-8350 has a Thermal Margin of 61C. This reading will count down as it warms up, and back up towards 61C as it cools down.


In summary:
-Cpu is most likely thermal throttling.
-Current mobo's ability to handle this cpu when it's not throttling is suspect. It's got a heatsink on the VRM, but it's just a 4+1 phase.
-Fan in the front of the C200 isn't helping things.

Could you suggest what I could do to solve my problems.
Yesterday I faced a new problem that during gaming the game freezes randomly and I have to restart the game. Again it will run for a few minutes and same thing will happen.

After 2-3 freezes I stopped playing and restarted PC after 30 minutes. Just to check I left the game on for about 1 and half hour but everything was fine.

Can this be related to the cpu or mobo ?

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I have an even worse gigabyte board, basically the same vrm without a vrm heatsink at all. Have a 125w CPU in there right now. Works fine.

 

[Phaaze88]

Yesterday I faced a new problem that during gaming the game freezes randomly and I have to restart the game. Again it will run for a few minutes and same thing will happen.

I've seen the psu cause that.
It'll freeze in game, and music - if any is playing at the time - will loop.
Running Heaven Benchmark - same thing.
It froze during Asus Realbench stress test too.
At one point, it even caused the Unigine Superposition Benchmark to LOOP.
But cpu tests like Cinebench R20/23 and Prime95 were totally fine.

I did find a workaround until a new psu arrived: lowering the gpu power limit in Msi Afterburner. By a LOT - at least 40%.

 

[patelrom1992]

I've seen the psu cause that.
It'll freeze in game, and music - if any is playing at the time - will loop.
Running Heaven Benchmark - same thing.
It froze during Asus Realbench stress test too.
At one point, it even caused the Unigine Superposition Benchmark to LOOP.
But cpu tests like Cinebench R20/23 and Prime95 were totally fine.

I did find a workaround until a new psu arrived: lowering the gpu power limit in Msi Afterburner. By a LOT - at least 40%.

During the freezing in game the audio is working fine and is not looping.
Even I am able to voice chat on discord without any problems; the only thing that stops responding is the game itself.
Could it be because of the motherboard or CPU temperatures as earlier mentioned by 4745454b ?

 

[patelrom1992]

I've seen the psu cause that.
It'll freeze in game, and music - if any is playing at the time - will loop.
Running Heaven Benchmark - same thing.
It froze during Asus Realbench stress test too.
At one point, it even caused the Unigine Superposition Benchmark to LOOP.
But cpu tests like Cinebench R20/23 and Prime95 were totally fine.

I did find a workaround until a new psu arrived: lowering the gpu power limit in Msi Afterburner. By a LOT - at least 40%.

I was running a few stress test on my CPU and GPU.
During a stress test with MSI Kombustor for around 30minutes I faced no issues.
CPU was 57C at 100% usage.
GPU was 87C at 100% usage.

HW Monitor:
T0: 45C
T1: 59C
T2: 72C
CPU Fan: 6030RPM
Case Fans: 1550RPM
GPU Fan: 3090RPM

I also did one test that I tried running the game with OpenGL and it worked fine for 2 hours but as soon as I switched it to DirectX9 and DirectX11 it started freezing within 5-10minutes.
The reliability history shows "A problem with your hardware caused windows to stop working correctly"
Event viewer shows errors related to "nvlddmkm".
"Event ID 13 from source nvlddmkm cannot be found. Either the component that raises this event is not installed on your local computer or the installation is corrupted. You can install or repair the component on the local computer. "

 

[iPeekYou]

I was running a few stress test on my CPU and GPU.
During a stress test with MSI Kombustor for around 30minutes I faced no issues.
CPU was 57C at 100% usage.
GPU was 87C at 100% usage.

HW Monitor:
T0: 45C
T1: 59C
T2: 72C
CPU Fan: 6030RPM
Case Fans: 1550RPM
GPU Fan: 3090RPM

I also did one test that I tried running the game with OpenGL and it worked fine for 2 hours but as soon as I switched it to DirectX9 and DirectX11 it started freezing within 5-10minutes.
The reliability history shows "A problem with your hardware caused windows to stop working correctly"
Event viewer shows errors related to "nvlddmkm".
"Event ID 13 from source nvlddmkm cannot be found. Either the component that raises this event is not installed on your local computer or the installation is corrupted. You can install or repair the component on the local computer. "

Your GPU isn't playing nice --can be the drivers' fault, or the aggressive limit. Nvlddmkm.sys is the Nvidia driver file.

 

[patelrom1992]

Your GPU isn't playing nice --can be the drivers' fault, or the aggressive limit. Nvlddmkm.sys is the Nvidia driver file.

That was one of my thoughts but the game is able to run in OpenGL mode and crashes only while DirectX. Also there have been no crashes/freezes/stuttering observed during the stress test also.
This is driving me crazy X_X.

 

[mamasan2000]

"nvlddmkm" sounds like Nvidia driver. I had an Nvidia-card at the time. Lots of issues. One issue was, GPU had to wait for some instruction but the wait-time was too short, like 1-2 secs. I had to increase it to 10-30 secs via Windows Registry. Driver was crashing for various reasons. There are workarounds. It could have been the TdrDelay-fix from here: https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Fix-the-Nvlddmkm-Error/ It sounds familiar. But I tried a few things in Registry.

I ran my fx-8350 on an Asus Sabertooth eventually. Probably the best board for the CPU. I don't know what the used price is. Overclockers like to play with old hardware so it could be a silly price. I ran with stock cooler for a little while but it was bad. Upgraded to Noctua D15 or something, whatever was compatible with the slot (AM3?). I was still not satisfied so I got a Corsair H100i AIO.

Why is only 2 RAM slots working? I had issues on my previous mobo, think it was MSI. I could not get the RAM to run higher than 1600 Mhz. Sabertooth solved that. 4 RAM slots at 1866 Mhz, no problem.

That said, you could probably get a better PC for 400-600 dollars (excluding GPU). Hard part is getting a GPU. Shortage on them. And if you find one, price is inflated by 2x-3x. Only ones that are available are the ~100 dollar GPUs. Basically, outputs to a monitor, not much else.
Alternative could be an APU/CPU with iGPU. Where i live, AMD APUs are not available either. But Intels processors with iGPU should be available. Works if you are not gaming.

 

[patelrom1992]

"nvlddmkm" sounds like Nvidia driver. I had an Nvidia-card at the time. Lots of issues. One issue was, GPU had to wait for some instruction but the wait-time was too short, like 1-2 secs. I had to increase it to 10-30 secs via Windows Registry. Driver was crashing for various reasons. There are workarounds.

I ran my fx-8350 on an Asus Sabertooth eventually. Probably the best board for the CPU. I don't know what the used price is. Overclockers like to play with old hardware so it could be a silly price. I ran with stock cooler for a little while but it was bad. Upgraded to Noctua D15 or something, whatever was compatible with the slot (AM3?). I was still not satisfied so I got a Corsair H100i AIO.

Why is only 2 RAM slots working? I had issues on my previous mobo, think it was MSI. I could not get the RAM to run higher than 1600 Mhz. Sabertooth solved that. 4 RAM slots at 1866 Mhz, no problem.

That said, you could probably get a better PC for 400-600 dollars (excluding GPU). Hard part is getting a GPU. Shortage on them. And if you find one, price is inflated by 2x-3x. Only ones that are available are the ~100 dollar GPUs. Basically, outputs to a monitor, not much else.
Alternative could be an APU/CPU with iGPU. Where i live, AMD APUs are not available either. But Intels processors with iGPU should be available. Works if you are not gaming.

Could you elaborate regarding the wait-time for instruction and will it help with the issue I am facing,

Regarding the RAM slots whenever I want to run the RAM in other slots the pc wont boot up at all and if it did it will show 8GB RAM(4GB usable).
So even though I can run the RAM in dual channel I have to run them in different channels.

I was thinking about upgrading the processor,mobo and RAMs for around 300$ ( i3-10100F, H310Board and DDR4 RAM) but if the GPU is faulty then upgrading isnt going to help.

 

[iPeekYou]

Could you elaborate regarding the wait-time for instruction and will it help with the issue I am facing,

Regarding the RAM slots whenever I want to run the RAM in other slots the pc wont boot up at all and if it did it will show 8GB RAM(4GB usable).
So even though I can run the RAM in dual channel I have to run them in different channels.

I was thinking about upgrading the processor,mobo and RAMs for around 300$ ( i3-10100F, H310Board and DDR4 RAM) but if the GPU is faulty then upgrading isnt going to help.

The instructables link contained the instructions for the registry edit, as follows:

NOTE: This is risky, because you have to edit the registry, which can mess up your computer if done wrong, you should make a backup before you try this!

1. Goto registry editor (start -> run -> regedit)
2. Navigate yourself to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESystemCurrentControlSetControlGraphicsDrivers (make sure GraphicsDrivers is highlighted).
3. Right click -> New -> DWORD (32-bit) value -> Name it: TdrDelay -> double click it -> Set it to A (hexadecimal) or 10 (decimal).

If that doesn't work, try disabling it, by adding the following DWORD: TdrLevel and setting the value to 0, then rebooting.

Pretty doable, just keep in mind it's always a risk tinkering with registry. Nothing bad should happen, but you know how finicky softwares can be.

My hunch says it's not the GPU. It's fine before we start tinkering with it, isn't it?

 

[mamasan2000]

The Tdrdelay is supposed to wait a bit longer before the driver tries to reset. It is a very short time by default.

For RAM, motherboard mattered a lot at the time IIRC. Sometimes when it says 4 gigs usable, you didn't push the RAM all the way in.

If you replace your i3-10100F with i3-10100 (costs something like 20 dollars more), you get an iGPU with the CPU. It's not the most powerful graphics chip but it's good for output and most likely videos. Some stats: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/uhd-graphics-630.c3601
Compare that to a Vega56 that I have (struggles at 1440p in some current games): https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-vega-56.c2993

vega 56: 10 Tera FLOPS
uhd 630: 400 Giga FLOPS

Thats is a 25x difference.

 

[patelrom1992]

The instructables link contained the instructions for the registry edit, as follows:



Pretty doable, just keep in mind it's always a risk tinkering with registry. Nothing bad should happen, but you know how finicky softwares can be.

My hunch says it's not the GPU. It's fine before we start tinkering with it, isn't it?

The GPU was working fine up until I opened my PC for a cleanup.
I have started to face problems after i cleaned everything and I don't exactly remember which drivers I was running before this problem started.

 

[patelrom1992]

The Tdrdelay is supposed to wait a bit longer before the driver tries to reset. It is a very short time by default.

For RAM, motherboard mattered a lot at the time IIRC. Sometimes when it says 4 gigs usable, you didn't push the RAM all the way in.

If you replace your i3-10100F with i3-10100 (costs something like 20 dollars more), you get an iGPU with the CPU. It's not the most powerful graphics chip but it's good for output and most likely videos.

An iGPU which wont be able to handle games will be of no use to me.
I am not talking about very heavy games as mostly I play CSGO and Dota2.
If my GPU is working fine then the upgrade seems easy for me but if the GPU has any issues then I'm in deep <Mod Edit> X_X.

 

[iPeekYou]

You can try old drivers, like from a year or two after the release of 770. Update drivers as necessary then. Nvidia's slowly dropping support for new drivers on old GPUs (naturally) anyway. Kepler cards included. Seems to me like they're laser focus on polishing the RTX GPUs at the moment.

A weak iGPU is useless in gaming, yeah, but IMO invaluable in troubleshooting. Easily test dead GPUs, or when you're waiting for a new GPU to arrive.

 

[patelrom1992]

You can try old drivers, like from a year or two after the release of 770. Update drivers as necessary then. Nvidia's slowly dropping support for new drivers on old GPUs (naturally) anyway. Kepler cards included. Seems to me like they're laser focus on polishing the RTX GPUs at the moment.

A weak iGPU is useless in gaming, yeah, but IMO invaluable in troubleshooting. Easily test dead GPUs, or when you're waiting for a new GPU to arrive.

Yes the current drivers installed are 466.47 ( May 2021 ) and I am planning to install 388.71 ( December 2017 ).
Hopefully the problem is solved.

 

[patelrom1992]

I tried 4 older drivers and all of them are having freezes/crashes at random time in a game. Sometimes it is 15 minutes sometimes after 60mins.
I also tried playing in OpenGL mode and was able to play for almost 70-80 mins without any freezes.
Why does this crash happen only while running the game in Directx11.

I am running out of options as of now.
Everytime there is a crash I get the same error of a Hardware failure and the nvlddmkm stopped responding.

Any other suggestions would be welcome.

 

[Phaaze88]

There's probably multiple things happening all at once, equating to a big mess.

A)When's the last time the OS was CLEAN installed?

B)Psu probably needs to go. 'Cooler Master 550w' is also too vague; all of these in this link are Cooler Master 550w - some good, some 'meh', and some bad.

C)Cpu overheating for sure, but wouldn't suggest spending a dime on this old platform.

D)Motherboard defective, or possibly damaged. There's 2 ram slots that don't work - it wasn't specified which slots - and then there's the mixed responses on the board's capacity to handle FX-8350.
Still wouldn't spend a dime on this platform.

E)Gpu is borked too? Or perhaps it's being confused for the above mess combined with corrupt DirectX drivers...


Probably looking at a new cpu, cpu cooler, motherboard, ram, and psu...
That chassis should probably go too, but it can be worked with - using a cutting tool to actually make some vents at the sides of the front panel for the chassis to breathe, and not the asymmetrical lines, which worsens airflow for no real reason.

 

[patelrom1992]

There's probably multiple things happening all at once, equating to a big mess.

A)When's the last time the OS was CLEAN installed?

B)Psu probably needs to go. 'Cooler Master 550w' is also too vague; all of these in this link are Cooler Master 550w - some good, some 'meh', and some bad.

C)Cpu overheating for sure, but wouldn't suggest spending a dime on this old platform.

D)Motherboard defective, or possibly damaged. There's 2 ram slots that don't work - it wasn't specified which slots - and then there's the mixed responses on the board's capacity to handle FX-8350.
Still wouldn't spend a dime on this platform.

E)Gpu is borked too? Or perhaps it's being confused for the above mess combined with corrupt DirectX drivers...


Probably looking at a new cpu, cpu cooler, motherboard, ram, and psu...
That chassis should probably go too, but it can be worked with - using a cutting tool to actually make some vents at the sides of the front panel for the chassis to breathe, and not the asymmetrical lines, which worsens airflow for no real reason.

A) After cleaning all the parts I upgraded the cabinet to Gigabyte C200 and had a clean OS install on new 240GB SSD.

B). PSU is Cooler master Masterwatt Lite 600W ( 80+ Standard )

C). During a stress test for 30 mins the CPU temperature stayed around 55-58C.

D). The 2 RAM slots are not working since a long time. ( Slot 1 and 3 ). Currently I am using channel 0: Slot 2 and 4.

E). So far I have done stress test with 3-4 different softwares ( Furmark, MSI Kombustor, Prime95, OCCT ) but none have given or reported any errors during the test that too running at a high temperature of 87-88C.

I was thinking about a clean OS install, a clean dota2 install ( downloading fresh ), after that installing old GPU drivers.