Question Very high Hard Page Faults/s RAM works fine

[Symxn]

Okay so I've really hit a dead end here, the issue being having a large amound of hard page faults being caused by Discord, Firefox/Chrome, OBS and various windows processes such as MsMpEng.exe and svchost.exe. This is making my pc very slow and causing BSOD (Page Fault on Nonpaged area).

Heres a list of things I have tried to fix the issue;

Disabling XMP
Updating Drivers
Upgrading to an SSD to boot OS
Isolating RAM (errors with both sticks so very unlikely to be faulty)
Full drive scan that took hours and hours
SFC Scan
DISM Tool (
DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-image /Scanhealth
)
Windows memory scan
Reinstalling windows
Configuring Page write settings in windows
Reinstalling/Updating problematic programs

Here are my specs

Ryzen 7 2700X
Gigabyte B450 AORUS
Corsair 16GB (2x 8GB) 3000Mhz DDR4
Asus Expedition GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
Aerocool Integrator 500W Semi Modular PSU
Toshiba 1TB HDD
Adata Ultimate SU650 240GB SSD

Two recent BSOD Dumps (only ones in minidump)
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16onxa6sbuxH2HwP3iByoUY1NZzwUNCfd?usp=sharing


Thankyou in advance for any help, really struggling with this.

 

[PC Tailor]

It's worth noting as always, I am still in training for BSOD debugging, but the comments I have made below are not due to analysis of the dump files necessarily but more based on what you have described and some basics I have seen. Just keep this in mind. Someone may be able to help more with the dump files that I have at least converted below.

the issue being having a large amound of hard page faults being caused by Discord, Firefox/Chrome, OBS

This is not the issue in this sense. Contrary to the name a "page fault" is not really an error, and it something that happens on pretty much every PC, every day. Effectively it's when a program requests usage / access to an address that isn't in the memory pages. And there are hard and soft page faults, how did you deduce yours were hard faults as they are in different locations? Also what do you mean by "very high"?

Your OS deals with page faults quite commonly, just they don't usually end up in a bugcheck unless something else happens.

Updating Drivers
Full drive scan that took hours and hours
Configuring Page write settings in windows

How are you updating drivers exactly?
What scan did you run?
What page write settings did you change? There was likely no need for this.

How long have you been having these BSOD?

Isolating RAM (errors with both sticks so very unlikely to be faulty)

Not necessarily, was this also in the same slot or different slots? It could be the slot is faulty or there are BIOS settings causing the issue. Was the memtest also performed whilst XMP was disabled?

Reinstalling windows

So this is a key one, and this really means 1 of 2 things, either:

• It is a hardware related issue (this can be compatibility, or BIOS configuration/OC etc. also, not just the hardware itself being faulty).
• The offending software is being reinstalled (this can be very common if you are using WiFi adapters or buggy mice/keyboard drivers for example)

The fact that you are also having memtest faults would lead me to think it is the former.

I have run the dump file(s) and you can see the full report(s) in the link below.
If you are prompted to "Run only if trusted" simply click play/run and the html will be viewed. This warning is always present.

Report: https://jsfiddle.net/zv2xtwoq/show/

Summary of findings:

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
Probably caused by : ntkrnlmp.exe ( nt!KiPageFault+469 )
--------------------
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA
Probably caused by : memory_corruption

 

[Symxn]

Thank you for your quick response

Hard faults I saw using Resource monitor and Page Fault Delta on ProcessExplorer

I am updating drivers using device manager and software such as Nvidia experience

The scan I performed on the drives were done through CMD, dont remember the line I entered but upon restart my bios said "Repairing Drives"

I changed the page write settings back to what they were, once I realised it had done nothing

I have noticed my PC slowing down for some time now, being stuttery and programs freezing for a few seconds (most commonly with OS Software like windows settings, task manage etc) but the BSOD's started mid september when I got two in one day with only Discord and chrome open, I cant access the dump files but I sent a picture to a friend I was in a call with at the time and the stop codes for both BSOD's are "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL"

I have isolated the ram, used different slots, before and after disabling XMP

I contacted Corsair the other day about getting replacement ram and after doing these tests, they determined the ram isnt faulty as its never the whole kit, just one faulty stick of the two. I bought the Mobo GPU CPU and ram in Feb 2019 so I hope there are no faults, thanks again for the quick reply

 

[PC Tailor]

I am replying on my phone, but based on what you have said, CMD drive commands are not so robust in really testing the drive and much more basic.

If they are hard faults, this is virtual memory, not physical memory.

For those two reasons you might also want to test your storage drive, using SeaTools LONG test may be apt or more advanced such as HD Sentinel.

 

[Symxn]

I am replying on my phone, but based on what you have said, CMD drive commands are not so robust in really testing the drive and much more basic.

If they are hard faults, this is virtual memory, not physical memory.

For those two reasons you might also want to test your storage drive, using SeaTools LONG test may be apt or more advanced such as HD Sentinel.

But why would it be using virtual memory when I have plenty of RAM available?
Also if this is the case, would it be using my SSD for virtual memore or my HDD?
If its my hard drive I think I would just replace it since its 5 ish years old and has been cleared when I reinstalled windows.
Would removing the HDD and booting the pc be a good test?

 

[geofelt]

If your hard page fault rate is anything north of zero, you do not have enough real ram.
I would think that 16gb would be sufficient normally.
Chrome is a notorious user of ram.
If you have an app where it uses ram for workspace, possibly that space is set too high.
When you have a hard page fault, it will be resolved by swapping data to/from the page file.
That will be much faster on a ssd.
Are you letting windows manage the page file space?

 

[Symxn]

If your hard page fault rate is anything north of zero, you do not have enough real ram.
I would think that 16gb would be sufficient normally.
Chrome is a notorious user of ram.
If you have an app where it uses ram for workspace, possibly that space is set too high.
When you have a hard page fault, it will be resolved by swapping data to/from the page file.
That will be much faster on a ssd.
Are you letting windows manage the page file space?

I definately have enough ram, I know this about chrome so after the fresh windows installation ive switched to firefox.
still no change. Ive been able to stream semi intense games and never had ram issues in the past. If im not playing a game, memory usage rarely exceeds 30%

Discord causes a lot of hard faults, is there a way to change the amount of ram allocated to it?
and here are my current page file settings

https://imgur.com/a/Qbf8BUf

View: https://imgur.com/a/Qbf8BUf

I can see that the recommended is a lot lower than the currently allocated
should I change this? if so, where and what to?

Thanks for the response

 

[geofelt]

Your page settings are default and exactly proper.
Do nothing.

Apparently discord has a memory leak.
I am not familiar with the app, so do some research on that.
If an app has a memory leak, it constantly uses increasing amounts of ram.
You can probably limit the problem by restarting the app frequently.
But, the real solution will come from the developers with a patch.

 

[Colif]

possibly related

Desktop systems based on AMD 6-Series, 7-Series, 8-Series, 9-Series, Socket AM4, and Socket TR4 chipsets running Windows® 10 should use the Microsoft provided Standard SATA AHCI Controller driver that comes installed with Windows® by default. This configuration ensures compatibility and offers the best experience with most types of mass storage devices.

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-250

you have

amd_sata.sys

AMD

AMD SATA Controller AHCI Device Driver

19/03/2015

In 2 of 2 dumps

is surprised PC Tailor didn't point out this

vgk.sys	Valorant	Valorant Anti Cheat Driver?	28/09/2020	In 1 of 2 dumps
vgk.sys	Valorant	Valorant Anti Cheat Driver?	02/10/2020	In 1 of 2 dumps

as its well known to cause errors now

Newer versions of these

rt640x64.sys

Realtek

Realtek Ethernet Driver

01/07/2019

In 2 of 2 dumps

https://www.realtek.com/en/componen...0-1000m-gigabit-ethernet-pci-express-software

I use discord app, I haven't noticed a memory leak in it.

Wishes Hard Page faults were called something else. They normal if the system can't find the data it is looking for in ram.

 

[Symxn]

possibly related



https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/pa-250

you have

amd_sata.sys

AMD

AMD SATA Controller AHCI Device Driver

19/03/2015

In 2 of 2 dumps

is surprised PC Tailor didn't point out this

vgk.sys	Valorant	Valorant Anti Cheat Driver?	28/09/2020	In 1 of 2 dumps
vgk.sys	Valorant	Valorant Anti Cheat Driver?	02/10/2020	In 1 of 2 dumps

as its well known to cause errors now

Newer versions of these

rt640x64.sys

Realtek

Realtek Ethernet Driver

01/07/2019

In 2 of 2 dumps

https://www.realtek.com/en/componen...0-1000m-gigabit-ethernet-pci-express-software

I use discord app, I haven't noticed a memory leak in it.

Wishes Hard Page faults were called something else. They normal if the system can't find the data it is looking for in ram.

replying on my phone, was just trying to install the updated Ethernet driver when file explorer stopped responding and then BSOD critical_process_died, will upload the dump as soon as my pc is back on. Also may I just clarify, are you suggesting I should update the sata driver or roll back the driver?

I’ve heard vanguard to be problematic and it would make sense but is the only solution to that being uninstall vanguard?

Thanks for your response

edit: I think windows booted off of my HDD after the BSOD, this is purely going off of the fact it took longer and my desktop icons are different, I can’t see any boot partitions on my hard disk though

Another edit: no Dump file has appeared in minidump for the recent BSOD

Third edit: "Roll back driver" option greyed out for AMD SATA Controller, no update on device manager either

 

[Colif]

i have seen that happen with the sata drivers before

can you share a screen shot of disk management? if its formatted as mbr it may not need a boot partition. Can all be in one... I have done that myself with win 10,

maybe run this on ssd - https://www.adata.com/us/ss/software-6/

 

[Symxn]

i have seen that happen with the sata drivers before

can you share a screen shot of disk management? if its formatted as mbr it may not need a boot partition. Can all be in one... I have done that myself with win 10,

maybe run this on ssd - https://www.adata.com/us/ss/software-6/

Okay so really long day today, decided to format both the SSD and the HDD and do a fresh install of windows from the disk, the SATA driver you mentioned is installed with the HDD so ive just removed the hard drive from my pc for now, Im gonna use the PC as normal for the next few days and if I get any BSOD then I will report them, if not, ill reinstall the HDD and use the PC as normal again, if problems occur then it is the driver thats causing it.

Also the software you have linked doesnt have my ssd listed as compatable.

A friend has advised me not to stress about the hard faults occuring unless the pc is actually slowing down again or crashing,
If there is anything else you want me to check id be happy to,

Thanks for your response again.

 

[PC Tailor]

It could be the drivers or potentially even the hard drive as a whole itself.

Your friend is correct on the hard faults really, because they're not "faults", just usually if it is because of excessive virtual memory use then it usually does have performance implications. So they're nothing to worry about currently.

Just wait at least 48 hours of normal PC usage and let us know what happens

 

[Symxn]

It could be the drivers or potentially even the hard drive as a whole itself.

Your friend is correct on the hard faults really, because they're not "faults", just usually if it is because of excessive virtual memory use then it usually does have performance implications. So they're nothing to worry about currently.

Just wait at least 48 hours of normal PC usage and let us know what happens

Okay I will do thanks,
Still don’t understand why any virtual memory is being used, I was taught that virtual memory is only used when ram is full, Im only using 15-30% my ram

 

[Colif]

I thought about this later, hard faults don't mean you have a problem but if you get an error after a hard fault, it could mean the drive is at fault .

A hard fault occurs when Windows has to access the swap file--reserved hard disk space used when RAM runs out. Despite their name, hard faults are not errors. But if your system is experiencing hundreds of hard faults per second, either you need a RAM upgrade or a process is hogging resources.

note - this won't be the HDD you swapped out, this file is on the ssd.

It is odd to me that your SSD lists that software I suggested as useful on it, but it didn't recognise your SSD? That might be a sign of trouble - https://www.adata.com/us/download/503

Okay I will do thanks,
Still don’t understand why any virtual memory is being used, I was taught that virtual memory is only used when ram is full, Im only using 15-30% my ram

I wonder if its a memory leak. It doesn't seem to be a normal one though, usually you notice as ram usage increases, but I know you can run out of memory with free ram. Its all about what resources have been promised to drivers, and if a file keeps asking for more memory and not releasing it once its finished, you eventually run out.

Download Process explorer and run it as admin (it comes from Microsoft so its safe)

the default view is tree structure meaning like your task manager screen, it will show what processes are under each service, but unlike task manager, it shows the ram usage of each part so you can see what is eating your ram

Private bytes = actual ram usage
Working set = Ram + page file usage

This page shows what all the colours and headings mean, link at bottom of it shows how to use it to find problems. You can right click headers and run an av scan from within the program.

Spoiler

An application is a program which you interact with on the desktop. A process is an instance of a executable (.exe program file) running.

A service is a process which runs in the background and does not interact with the desktop. In Windows, services almost always run as an instance of the svchost.exe process, the windows service host process; however there are sometimes exceptions to this.

Sometimes, processes may run in the background without interacting with the desktop, but without being installed as a service. Antivirus programs usually employ a service so they can continue running even when the user is not logged in.

Processes usually exit when an application is closed, however this is not always the case. Some programs, particularly download and backup programs, may continue to run in the background without displaying any windows. Antivirus is also an example of this - in addition to using a service, many antivirus applications run a process silently in the background which only displays an application to the user when action is required

(Page file = swap file)

 

[Symxn]

I thought about this later, hard faults don't mean you have a problem but if you get an error after a hard fault, it could mean the drive is at fault .

A hard fault occurs when Windows has to access the swap file--reserved hard disk space used when RAM runs out. Despite their name, hard faults are not errors. But if your system is experiencing hundreds of hard faults per second, either you need a RAM upgrade or a process is hogging resources.

note - this won't be the HDD you swapped out, this file is on the ssd.

It is odd to me that your SSD lists that software I suggested as useful on it, but it didn't recognise your SSD? That might be a sign of trouble - https://www.adata.com/us/download/503


I wonder if its a memory leak. It doesn't seem to be a normal one though, usually you notice as ram usage increases, but I know you can run out of memory with free ram. Its all about what resources have been promised to drivers, and if a file keeps asking for more memory and not releasing it once its finished, you eventually run out.

Download Process explorer and run it as admin (it comes from Microsoft so its safe)

the default view is tree structure meaning like your task manager screen, it will show what processes are under each service, but unlike task manager, it shows the ram usage of each part so you can see what is eating your ram

Private bytes = actual ram usage
Working set = Ram + page file usage

(Page file = swap file)

Okay its been around 2 days now, not a single BSOD which is great and havnt noticed any major freezing like before

I said the SSD toolbox software didnt list my SSD model as compatable but I installed it anyway, and it recognises my SSD, Not really sure what to do on there but let me know
I still havnt plugged in my hardrive, so the AMD_SATA driver hasnt been installed, I'm fairly certain at this point, that was the issue.

What should I do now? I wont be able to use an alternate version of the driver, do all HDDs use that same driver? I will be able to get a new HDD if thats the case, just need to know which I sould get

Here is was my Process Explorer looks like (No hdd installed)
Imgur

Thanks again for the response

 

[Colif]

The driver is still on the PC, unless you managed to remove it. Any hdd you add will use it, its not tied to just that drive.

The toolkit has diagnostic tests in it. - Two options: Quick Diagnostics, which will run basic tests on free space of the selected drive, and Full Diagnostics, which runs a read test on all used space of the selected drive. I would suggest you run full.

I just found a mistake in my descriptions for Private Bytes & Working Set, I had them backwards

Working set is the size of the pages belonging to the process, which are currently stored in main memory. When a page of memory used by a process is moved to the page file, it is removed from the working set metric, and when its called back into main memory, its added in again.

Working set does not exclusively refer to memory your process owns however. processes use many shared memory objects, and the size of these objects is reflected in the stat. unfortunately, when two processes share a 1MB object, both their processes show an 1MB allocation in the working set, so if you added up all the working sets, the 1MB object would be recorded twice, so the accumulation of all your working set sizes might in extreme cases, appear to exceed the size of the ram available. see more here: http://cybernetnews.com/cybernotes-windows-memory-usage-explained/

Private Bytes refers to the amount of Page file space that is allocated to the process (not necessarily used) in the event that the process's private memory footprint is completely paged out to swap. most of the time, the process is not entirely (or at all) page-file resident, so that's why private bytes appears to have "room" for further allocation. It is not however the case.

Private bytes however only refers to the processes private memory, so this value may not reflect shared resources (even if the shared resource is only used by this process at present).

"Working set Private" ("WS Private bytes" or "Private WS" in process explorer depending on version) is probably the best metric for your use. it does not concern itself with page file, so you get an accurate representation of the processes impact on your physical ram, and it does not doubly-count shared objects. shared objects are tallied once (only for the process that created them), but that also means that from a single-process perspective you are not recording that your process uses shared objects created by another process, so your process might use more ram on another machine or in a situation where it was required to create the shared object itself instead of using another processes instance of it. Windows Task manager uses working set private as its memory usage metric.

https://superuser.com/questions/618686/private-bytes-vs-working-set-in-process-explorer

in process explorer, right click the header column and choose select columns
Click on process memory
put a tick next to page faults to show them as a column since that is what you are concerned about. It doesn't show a column for hard/soft. just all. Most are normal.

short look shows chrome has a lot

i only found my mistaken descriptions as your Private bytes total for a number of files was bigger than Working set and with the way I had them organised, that was impossible.

 

[Symxn]

Okay so the last two days, I have had my pc completely freeze up again twice, no matter how long I wait it never goes to a BSOD
(the hard drive or driver is not on my pc)

one was whilst playing the new call of duty yesterday

And one was literally just whilst watching youtube about 20 mins ago, I only have one dump file but I have added it to the google drive

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16onxa6sbuxH2HwP3iByoUY1NZzwUNCfd

Thanks

EDIT: PC Crashed again, this time did get a BSOD (irql_not_less_or_equal) and a dump file (19/10/2020) which has also been uploaded

 

[Symxn]

Okay so the last two days, I have had my pc completely freeze up again twice, no matter how long I wait it never goes to a BSOD
(the hard drive or driver is not on my pc)

one was whilst playing the new call of duty yesterday

And one was literally just whilst watching youtube about 20 mins ago, I only have one dump file but I have added it to the google drive

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16onxa6sbuxH2HwP3iByoUY1NZzwUNCfd

Thanks

EDIT: PC Crashed again, this time did get a BSOD (irql_not_less_or_equal) and a dump file (19/10/2020) which has also been uploaded

Blue screens are way more frequent, and my pc will also just restart abruptly, both monitors go black and the i see my bios loading screen (doesnt notify the restart with the windows screen) I have again uploaded all BSOD dump files to the google drive, does this mean its a power supply issue? how can I test this?

 

[Colif]

I have asked someone to convert the dumps you have given us.

restarts with no errors can mean hardware, i don't like to guess its PSU.

 

[Colif]

results - https://jsfiddle.net/qjsmw9xp/show

2nd crash mentions USBXHCI which if you couldn't guess is a USB driver.. windows one.. what USB devices you have??
Blue yeti microphone maybe? Only cause I know they use

Jul 31 2015

CMUSBDAC.sys

C-Media USB Audio Class 1.0 and 2.0 DAC Device driver https://www.cmedia.com.tw/

these used to be a fix for their drivers but I don't think it works anymore - https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq/blue-snowball-microphone-cmusbdac-sys-error.3143672/

note: it might not be microphone, I was just going from drivers running at time. What other USB have you got? I see a steelseries kb?

3rd crash is GPU drivers.

try running DDU in safe mode and install either newer nvidia drivers or run windows update after restart and use older drivers that MIcrosoft have (they still from Nvidia, just older) - https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq...n-install-of-your-video-card-drivers.2402269/

I can't tell what others are caused by but could be just 2 things.

 

[Symxn]

Thanks for the response

The USB devices I have are

HyperX kb
Steelseries mouse
Steelseries transmitter for wireless headset
Blue Snowball
Logitech Webcam
Also a USB ring light

I followed the steps for the mic drivers

My windows and Nvidia drivers are all up to date, whats the date of the crash related to GPU drivers? There was one bluescreen that was different from the rest that I got whilst playing the new Call of Duty. I would like to think its not related to the ongoing issues, but you know better

 

[Colif]

try running this, it might help me figure out which USB device is involved - https://www.sysnative.com/forums/pages/bsodcollectionapp/

i believe the GPU error occurred - Debug session time: Mon Oct 19 09:26:33.845 2020 (UTC - 4:00)

crash 1 - Sunday Oct 25
crash 2 - Sun Oct 25 - USB
Crash 3 - Mon Oct 19 - GPU
Crash 4 - Oct 18
Crash 5 - Oct 8
Crash 6 - Oct 6 - this also was Nvidia drivers, I missed it last night.

note: some GTX cards have USBXHCI drivers, its always possible all errors are GPU drivers.
for instance

Jan 10 2020

nvvhci.sys

Nvidia Virtual USB Host Controller driver

 

[Symxn]

try running this, it might help me figure out which USB device is involved - https://www.sysnative.com/forums/pages/bsodcollectionapp/

i believe the GPU error occurred - Debug session time: Mon Oct 19 09:26:33.845 2020 (UTC - 4:00)

crash 1 - Sunday Oct 25
crash 2 - Sun Oct 25 - USB
Crash 3 - Mon Oct 19 - GPU
Crash 4 - Oct 18
Crash 5 - Oct 8
Crash 6 - Oct 6 - this also was Nvidia drivers, I missed it last night.

note: some GTX cards have USBXHCI drivers, its always possible all errors are GPU drivers.
for instance

Jan 10 2020

nvvhci.sys

Nvidia Virtual USB Host Controller driver

I have ran the software and added the output zip file to the Google Drive,
October 19th was the BSOD that happened whilst playing call of duty,
cant recally what october 6th was.

If you still think I should change my nvidia drivers, let me know and ill do it,

Thanks

 

[Colif]

If you still think I should change my nvidia drivers, let me know and ill do it,

try running DDU in safe mode and install either newer nvidia drivers or run windows update after restart and use older drivers that MIcrosoft have (they still from Nvidia, just older) - https://forums.tomshardware.com/faq...n-install-of-your-video-card-drivers.2402269/

they won't fix themselves.

desktop windows manager crashed on 29th, it is the part of windows that talks to GPU. it didn't cause a bsod but its another thing pointing at drivers.

it doesn't really tell me what caused the USB error.