Very old computer working?

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Shouldnt someone change the title to:
"Very old thread working?"


If we each post on this thread 10 tims a day, and get 10 of our friends to post and they get 10 of their friends to post,


we should see per person currently posting: 10 posts, the 100 posts, the 1000 posts. Each person would generate 12,030 posts by the 3rd day.

Call it Post-it-Forward
 
Is that Maypep guy still posting?
Click to expand...

Indeed.

DANG IT Dmacfour! You asked a question that could be answered... and thus, provided purpose to this thread, which ruins the point of the entire thread. Ok... time to lock the thread.

//kills 1 kitten.
3,242,985,240 kittens remaining.

Not if we ask another question:

You have a stick that is 1 light year long and are holding onto one end of it. At the other end of the stick is large brick wall. Now if nothing can travel faster than light (including the stick) what happens if you push your end of the stick towards the brick wall (i.e. how will you feel the resistance of the brick wall at the other end of the stick)?
 
Now if nothing can travel faster than light (including the stick)

😀 No, no, no my friend, this thread has been designed to go in length with at least twice the speed of light! 😀
 
Is that Maypep guy still posting?
Click to expand...

Indeed.

DANG IT Dmacfour! You asked a question that could be answered... and thus, provided purpose to this thread, which ruins the point of the entire thread. Ok... time to lock the thread.

//kills 1 kitten.
3,242,985,240 kittens remaining.

Not if we ask another question:

You have a stick that is 1 light year long and are holding onto one end of it. At the other end of the stick is large brick wall. Now if nothing can travel faster than light (including the stick) what happens if you push your end of the stick towards the brick wall (i.e. how will you feel the resistance of the brick wall at the other end of the stick)?


Good question. Since FORCE can not travel faster the light (even gravity), what would be felt?

Since the brick wall is providing a constant force on the stick, when you move the stick, it wont feel any different being 1ly long. But any changes in the force will take 1 year to feel.
Example: The brick wall is removed from the end of the stick. You wont feel the weight removed for one year. If you add weight, you wont feel it for one year afterwards.

So you are asking does the stick deform? Yes and no. It moves as a solid object. For the stick to bend, it requires force. Force can not travel faster then light, so you wont feel added force for one year (force added at 1ly away).
 
So.... If the stick bends at the tip from just adding weight we get this picture.


---------------------------------\------|

Were the \ represents a bend in the stick and the | represend the brick wall. That bend will not affect the entire stick untill 1 year has passed, but force the wall provides on the stick will travel though the stick at the speed of light. Once 1 year is up, you will feel the weight of the wall on the stick. (this is providing you meant Earth's gravity applies to the entire situation evenly). When you move the stick, a bend occurs due to directional force and that travels back to the wall at the speed of light.

Now, when you push the stick towards the wall (after one year of waiting for the force of the added wall to take affect), you will feel like your pushing a stick with a brickwall attached (as it moves as one unit). But, since you are adding forward momentum (i.e. force), it would take a year to feel it move with a brick wall at the end *but it would move. Once you stop, the stick would continue moving forward for one year then change directions (i.e. stop moving forward).
 
Is that Maypep guy still posting?
Click to expand...

Indeed.

DANG IT Dmacfour! You asked a question that could be answered... and thus, provided purpose to this thread, which ruins the point of the entire thread. Ok... time to lock the thread.

//kills 1 kitten.
3,242,985,240 kittens remaining.

Not if we ask another question:

You have a stick that is 1 light year long and are holding onto one end of it. At the other end of the stick is large brick wall. Now if nothing can travel faster than light (including the stick) what happens if you push your end of the stick towards the brick wall (i.e. how will you feel the resistance of the brick wall at the other end of the stick)?


Good question. Since FORCE can not travel faster the light (even gravity), what would be felt?

Since the brick wall is providing a constant force on the stick, when you move the stick, it wont feel any different being 1ly long. But any changes in the force will take 1 year to feel.
Example: The brick wall is removed from the end of the stick. You wont feel the weight removed for one year. If you add weight, you wont feel it for one year afterwards.

So you are asking does the stick deform? Yes and no. It moves as a solid object. For the stick to bend, it requires force. Force can not travel faster then light, so you wont feel added force for one year (force added at 1ly away).

Yeah this is basically 'do impulses travel faster than light?' question. So if you push againt the stick, when would the wall feel the stick pushing against it? If it would take a year for the wall to 'feel' it, then where does the middle part of the stick go when you are pushing against it? Does the stick compress and the compressed area move as an impulse at the speed of light towards towards the brick wall? And if so, does the impulse of the stick hitting the wall move back towards you and push your hand back 2 years after the initial impulse?
 
Is that Maypep guy still posting?
Click to expand...

Indeed.

DANG IT Dmacfour! You asked a question that could be answered... and thus, provided purpose to this thread, which ruins the point of the entire thread. Ok... time to lock the thread.

//kills 1 kitten.
3,242,985,240 kittens remaining.

Not if we ask another question:

You have a stick that is 1 light year long and are holding onto one end of it. At the other end of the stick is large brick wall. Now if nothing can travel faster than light (including the stick) what happens if you push your end of the stick towards the brick wall (i.e. how will you feel the resistance of the brick wall at the other end of the stick)?


Good question. Since FORCE can not travel faster the light (even gravity), what would be felt?

Since the brick wall is providing a constant force on the stick, when you move the stick, it wont feel any different being 1ly long. But any changes in the force will take 1 year to feel.
Example: The brick wall is removed from the end of the stick. You wont feel the weight removed for one year. If you add weight, you wont feel it for one year afterwards.

So you are asking does the stick deform? Yes and no. It moves as a solid object. For the stick to bend, it requires force. Force can not travel faster then light, so you wont feel added force for one year (force added at 1ly away).

Yeah this is basically 'do impulses travel faster than light?' question. So if you push againt the stick, when would the wall feel the stick pushing against it? If it would take a year for the wall to 'feel' it, then where does the middle part of the stick go when you are pushing against it? Does the stick compress and the compressed area move as an impulse at the speed of light towards towards the brick wall? And if so, does the impulse of the stick hitting the wall move back towards you and push your hand back 2 years after the initial impulse?

No thats not how it works. The Stick moves as a whole. It feels force at the speed of light (i.e. bending would occure only so fast). The stick would move forward all at once but you wouldnt feel a brick wall on the other end for one year of pushing it.
 
vikris:

Lets say that the stick is made of copper.

Comptia Rep:

So how long will it take for the wall to feel the stick moving? How will the brick wall feel the stick moving instantly? I am pushing on a bunch of atoms at my end of the stick, that are in turn pushing on the atoms beside them, etc, the atoms reacting to the movement of each other must take a finite amount of time
 
True, if the stick is made of copper, aplying a force to one end, will cause the molecules to move and collide with each other. In time the speed of the molecules will decrease. In fact, a current flow through a copper is 2/3 to that of light. You are pushing the end of the stick with a force which is not concentrated in a beam. So, if you consider your hand as a source, it has an area, lowering that area with constant pressure aplyed, produces greater force and hence greater speed of the molecules.

So, the friction will stop the molecules at a specific time and they will not travell to the other end of the stick, i.e. they will never reach the wall.

Further more, by the movement of the molecules, atoms and so on an energy is dissipated and through some length of the stick you could feel heat.
 
I did some more looking and i was a bit off.


Because a "push" is a point force, the stick would ripple not at the speed of light though, but at the speed the force could move though the object, being wood, or copper. If enough force was applied, it would ripple back as well.
 
Interesting. Didn't think about the loss of energy due to friction. Its neat to think that you can push on an object that is aparently solid and have it disipate the kinetic energy before it gets to the other end of the object. Is there a specific property in an object (on the molecular level) that tells you how fast the decrease in force would be (according to loss of energy based on internal friction)?
 
Interesting. Didn't think about the loss of energy due to friction. Its neat to think that you can push on an object that is aparently solid and have it disipate the kinetic energy before it gets to the other end of the object. Is there a specific property in an object (on the molecular level) that tells you how fast the decrease in force would be (according to loss of energy based on internal friction)?
Click to expand...


Yes, there is, it's the crystal structure of the material from which the stick is made of!
 
So the answer to his question about the stick is essentially that the force will never be felt. Any force added to the stick would have to be travelling faster than the speed of light since light is the terminal velocity of matter. Therefore any force would actually slow the object down, call it friction if you want. I would conclude that any force added to the stick would not ever be felt because the molecules cannot move any faster, it would be like making molecules colder at absolute zero hour, it cannot get colder therefore any energy transfered cancels out the effect that the molecules are under. In effect you actually add heat to the molecules rather than remove it. The speed of light is the limit in which matter can move, therefore no more force can be added without taking more energy away than putting in. Lets assume the stick crashes into the wall and the wall is capable of exerting the force necessary to stop it. I think the stick is one light year long as well. In this case the front of the stick would hit the wall one light year before the end would strike the wall. However, the time is exponentially increased as the speed of the stick slows to zero. Therefore a stick that is one light year long striking a brick wall would actually take exponencially longer for the end to feel it. I would hypothesize that the end would never feel the force within calculable terms. My guess is light time the number of atoms contained in the stick added in a sum sequence. So as the speed of the stick decreased the slower the force would affect the atoms residing next to the atoms which resided next to the other atoms with a counteracting force put upon it.
 
I see what you mean, but I think that this is just a question of magnitude. We obviously know that if you have a stick that is one meter long and push in into a brick wall we feel the force the wall exerts back onto us (at almost level of force which we exerted initially).

This question actually came up in a drunked discussion I had with some friends a while back. It involved a slightly different hypothetical. There is a brick wall in space still and a light year long stick as well, but instead of pushing on the stick with your hand, the end of the stick is on the nose of a space ship. The ship proceeds to travel at a (relatively) fast pace pushing on the stick.

So what happens in this situation? Assume that the ship is travelling pretty fast (10k km/h ?).
 
about the stick thing if its going at the speed of light the friction would be imense and therefore the stick would catch fire and burn into ash just like what this thread should do!!!!

So what happens in this situation? Assume that the ship is travelling pretty fast (10k km/h ?).
Click to expand...

the stick snaps and you have a sore hand.
 
The length of the stick doenst make a difference. If you move at a rate of 10k km/h than the stick will hit the wall at 10k km/h and the force will travel to the spaceship at 10k km/h as the force begins to equal the mass of the stick than the force subsides to nothing, creating an equilibrium effect. If the ship continues to move at 10k km/h than the distance that the force travels before the force is absorbed by the mass of the stick is increased at the rate of travel. So if the spaceship continues at 10k km/h than the ship will not feel the effect of the wall exerting force until the length of the stick is less than the length needed to absorb the force the wall exerted on it. As the stick collapses it's length will shorten to the point where the stick no longer has enough force passing through it to collapse the stick. Since the stick is 386,000 miles/s , multiplied by the number of seconds in a year is the length in miles. So the time before the ship feels the force is that number divided by the speed of the ship plus and imaginary number, that is, it is so small it cant be reasonable to count it but it does exist. This will give you and approximate time. So, 1.2172896^13 which is the number of miles light travels in one 365 day year plus the .25 of a day. This totals 1.2284064^13 miles/year long for the stick. If the ship travels at 10k km/h that is equal to 6250m/h. Now we find the distance a ship travelling 6250 m/h travels in a year. This value is 54750000 m/year. By dividing the stick length by the ships speed we get the time in years it will take for the ship to "feel" the force of the wall on the stick, or more or less the time it would take for the ship to hit the wall at that speed, which is 205085.0484 years. So that gives you an approximate timeframe you're looking at with a long stick in front of a spacecraft going 10k km/h. In all likeliness the number is smaller anas i didnt include the distance the force would have travelled during that time, since the force is continually added to the stick at a rate of newtons per second. This would shorten the time considerably but I don't have the capacity to calculate that at this time. The material, density, and mass of the stick needs to be given for me to give you an exact value. All I can calculate is the time it would take the ship to hit the wall.
 
The length of the stick doenst make a difference. If you move at a rate of 10k km/h than the stick will hit the wall at 10k km/h and the force will travel to the spaceship at 10k km/h as the force begins to equal the mass of the stick than the force subsides to nothing, creating an equilibrium effect. If the ship continues to move at 10k km/h than the distance that the force travels before the force is absorbed by the mass of the stick is increased at the rate of travel. So if the spaceship continues at 10k km/h than the ship will not feel the effect of the wall exerting force until the length of the stick is less than the length needed to absorb the force the wall exerted on it. As the stick collapses it's length will shorten to the point where the stick no longer has enough force passing through it to collapse the stick. Since the stick is 386,000 miles/s , multiplied by the number of seconds in a year is the length in miles. So the time before the ship feels the force is that number divided by the speed of the ship plus and imaginary number, that is, it is so small it cant be reasonable to count it but it does exist. This will give you and approximate time. So, 1.2172896^13 which is the number of miles light travels in one 365 day year plus the .25 of a day. This totals 1.2284064^13 miles/year long for the stick. If the ship travels at 10k km/h that is equal to 6250m/h. Now we find the distance a ship travelling 6250 m/h travels in a year. This value is 54750000 m/year. By dividing the stick length by the ships speed we get the time in years it will take for the ship to "feel" the force of the wall on the stick, or more or less the time it would take for the ship to hit the wall at that speed, which is 205085.0484 years. So that gives you an approximate timeframe you're looking at with a long stick in front of a spacecraft going 10k km/h. In all likeliness the number is smaller anas i didnt include the distance the force would have travelled during that time, since the force is continually added to the stick at a rate of newtons per second. This would shorten the time considerably but I don't have the capacity to calculate that at this time. The material, density, and mass of the stick needs to be given for me to give you an exact value. All I can calculate is the time it would take the ship to hit the wall.
Click to expand...

This post was a waste of your time.
 
The length of the stick doenst make a difference. If you move at a rate of 10k km/h than the stick will hit the wall at 10k km/h and the force will travel to the spaceship at 10k km/h as the force begins to equal the mass of the stick than the force subsides to nothing, creating an equilibrium effect. If the ship continues to move at 10k km/h than the distance that the force travels before the force is absorbed by the mass of the stick is increased at the rate of travel. So if the spaceship continues at 10k km/h than the ship will not feel the effect of the wall exerting force until the length of the stick is less than the length needed to absorb the force the wall exerted on it. As the stick collapses it's length will shorten to the point where the stick no longer has enough force passing through it to collapse the stick. Since the stick is 386,000 miles/s , multiplied by the number of seconds in a year is the length in miles. So the time before the ship feels the force is that number divided by the speed of the ship plus and imaginary number, that is, it is so small it cant be reasonable to count it but it does exist. This will give you and approximate time. So, 1.2172896^13 which is the number of miles light travels in one 365 day year plus the .25 of a day. This totals 1.2284064^13 miles/year long for the stick. If the ship travels at 10k km/h that is equal to 6250m/h. Now we find the distance a ship travelling 6250 m/h travels in a year. This value is 54750000 m/year. By dividing the stick length by the ships speed we get the time in years it will take for the ship to "feel" the force of the wall on the stick, or more or less the time it would take for the ship to hit the wall at that speed, which is 205085.0484 years. So that gives you an approximate timeframe you're looking at with a long stick in front of a spacecraft going 10k km/h. In all likeliness the number is smaller anas i didnt include the distance the force would have travelled during that time, since the force is continually added to the stick at a rate of newtons per second. This would shorten the time considerably but I don't have the capacity to calculate that at this time. The material, density, and mass of the stick needs to be given for me to give you an exact value. All I can calculate is the time it would take the ship to hit the wall.
Click to expand...

Ok i got a question while thinking about all the forces that make it impossible to push the stick into the brick wall.

Lets dissregard the idea that the stick is made up of atoms, and is instead made of somthing completely solid. Its shouldn't ripple because it would snap... or is that the answer?
 
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