Question What is proper motherboard etiquette?

[consptheory77]

So I am trying to do my build. I got everything assembled, first try, no power up. It's a dead PSU. (MSI A1000G). Got my replacement PSU yesterday (Corsair Shift 1000W). Paper clip test works (I know, it doesn't measure proper voltages but rules out DOA), fan spins up and then stops, I assume because the way many higher end PSUs are made these days, the fan won't spin unless it's needed. Hook up the PSU to the motherboard. The PSU power ups, but the system does not. No fans or anything. So I'm assuming now the motherboard is dead too I'm ruling out the RAM, because I have two sets just in case, and I know I seated them properly. As for the CPU, I suppose it's possible it's DOA, but that's extremely rare, plus in any case, the fans should still spin up, right? I am worried that since I put the Thermalright bracket for LGA 1700, the CPU was seated improperly, but the motherboard looked fine to me when I got it, and both the CPU and the motherboard board pins look fine now that I've delidded, I removed the motherboard and am going to send it back.

I did buy a "used" motherboard, i.e., an Amazon return. I am thinking someone got a DOA, Amazon just took it and "put it back on the shelf" and relisted it. I ordered a brand new one from them. I will not do this again, not at least to save I think it was maybe $25, it's not worth the loss in time if you get a DOA.

But I am also concerned about whether maybe I did something to it. Ideally, you handle it by the edges to avoid touching the circuit board. But to install the Thermalright contact frame you have to remove the normal CPU lock mechanism, and re-align the motherboard's back bracket with the new frame. "It's so easy to install." Well, no it isn't, unless you have a motherboard holder, which I don't and don't think I need to buy just to do this, but there is some futzing around with the back, indeed, one guy in one video had to hold the back of the motherboard, and I thought that was a non-no- but now it's obvious you do have to, and so I'm thinking maybe I did something to the motherboard trying to install the contact frame. I will not being doing this with the new motherboard.

"Our internal data show that the IHS on 12th Gen desktop processors may have slight deflection after installation in the socket. Such minor deflection is expected and does not cause the processor to run outside of specifications." , Intel says. So I think I'm going with that.

But what are some dos and dont's with the motherboard?

Like, don't hold it in your lap, right? (I could not in fact put the original locking mechanism back on the motherboard for the return without doing so.)

And any recommendations for magnetic screwdrivers? Because those little motherboards screws are driving me nuts!

 

[Lafong]

You can buy a magnetizing gizmo that will magnetize any screwdriver blade temporarily.

It's possible but unlikely you fouled the motherboard by handling it improperly. Try to keep your hands off the surfaces and handle by edges. You could use a grounding wrist strap, but I doubt if most here use one.

Try an utterly ordinary installation without the Thermalright contact frame or anything else you don't need.

You say you have delidded, so I don't really know about your intentions.

Used or returned parts open up various possibilities, none of them good.

 

[consptheory77]

You say you have delidded, so I don't really know about your intentions.

I meant "remove CPU cooler", I though that's what "delidding" was, but I looked it up, that means removing the IHS, which I definitely did not do, lol.

 

[Grobe]

My list of no-no's in order to best taking care of motherboards when putting it together:

Mechanical stress
The PCB itself are often softer than attached sockets and onboard chips. Therefore mechanical stress may be an issue when forcing down CPU and RAM. Also tightening the motherboard screws too hard may be an issue.

• I always put RAM and CPU on motherboard when it's laying on a flat and hard surface, preferably wood. And use an antistatic foam (always in the bag together with new motherboard) between. If that foam isn't available then a news paper can do.
• Consider the power connector as well if the PSU is modular or the cable is actually long enough (no, it probably aren't)

When mounting the mobo in the cabinet, I never tightening the screws before GPU and other expansion cards are seated.. This is to avoid mechanical stress from the screws and PCI sockets. Remember that due to repeatedly temperature cycles, this increase the effect of mechanical stress.

• Instead of just tightening all screws once the board is in place, I first put the board on place, then gently tightening the screws - but just so briefly that it is possible to move the motherboard (about a millimeter slack).
• I then insert GPU and any other PCI cards (this method, the GPU never get stuck to the rear end of the cabinet)
• And finally, I tightening all the screws properly - but not too tight.

Well - actually I often tries to put as many cables as possible behind the motherboard, but for the sake of using a work method to minimize any damage to the motherboard, this is not relevant.

ESD Damage
As already mention, you try to minimize as best as possible. But to best ensure no ESD discharge incident, try to follow this:

• Always have same potential yourself as the grounding of the board.
• If you always hold the edges, chance is you get charged yourself but the board never get to equalize because you always touch the insulated parts. That way, chance are you may inadvertently came in contact with delicate parts.
• Instead - try to always be in contact with the boards ground. This is typically metal around screw holes and the metal casing around usb and other ports.
• Having a anti static hand wrist is the best option because you have your hands free, not having to touch the grounding parts all time.
• Before lifting the motherboard to place it in the cabinet, also touch the cabinet to remove any static charges.
• Avoid certain rubber based foot wear, like Crocs - they are notorious to create electrical charges (some of my fellow residents like to use those, and skin touch can hurt due to discharge).
• Also a furry floor mat is bad.
• Already mentioned above - but anti static foam between the motherboard and table is a good strategy for minimizing chance of damaging pcb due to esd.

Also note - ocassionally dropping a screw onto the motherboard while not connected to PSU shouldn't pose a threat, unless some reckless work method opposing the mentioned advises.

And for tools- magnetic screw driver is the king.

What more?
Well, I find it way easier to fastening the screws if they're dipped in lubricant/oil (wd40 etc). It probably doesn't have any effect other than being easier to manage, and also when time comes when you're removing this motherboard - you don't want the stand-offs came loose first.
Also - have a thought about cable management. Maybe there is a cable that gets almost impossible to attach because there is no room to maneuver your hand inside the cabinet. There may be some sata cables or those that goes to the cabinet front panel connectors you want to connect to the mobo before inserting it in the cabinet.

 

[consptheory77]

FWIW, I see now in other places that users suggest that if you install the cooler bracket first it will help holding the ILM backplate in place, and I might try that, that's easy enough and doesn't involve touching the board. The force which the default ILM imposes feels unnaturally harsh.

 

[consptheory77]

• I always put RAM and CPU on motherboard when it's laying on a flat and hard surface, preferably wood.

I am using a heavy-duty polyethylene plastic work table to assemble the build.

• And use an antistatic foam (always in the bag together with new motherboard) between. If that foam isn't available then a news paper can do.

No foam came with the (used/refurb) motherboard. I read reports that motherboards manufacturers are now just shipping new boards in a anti-static bag without any padding to save on costs. I do have some old news paper.

When mounting the mobo in the cabinet, I never tightening the screws before GPU and other expansion cards are seated..

Not installing a GPU just yet. Maybe a few months. I need to pay off the cost of the desktop itself first.

• Having a anti static hand wrist is the best option because you have your hands free, not having to touch the grounding parts all time.

Do I have to wear one on both hands? Am I attaching the metal point at the end to the case?

• Before lifting the motherboard to place it in the cabinet, also touch the cabinet to remove any static charges.

I did do that.

• Avoid certain rubber based foot wear, like Crocs - they are notorious to create electrical charges (some of my fellow residents like to use those, and skin touch can hurt due to discharge).

I wear Okabashi sandals in the house - some sort of proprietary microplast but I'm sure there is rubber in the soles. Never noticed any static issue. Better to go barefoot?

Also - have a thought about cable management. Maybe there is a cable that gets almost impossible to attach because there is no room to maneuver your hand inside the cabinet. There may be some sata cables or those that goes to the cabinet front panel connectors you want to connect to the mobo before inserting it in the cabinet.

The cable management aspect of this build is looking good. I am very happy with the size of the Lian Li Lancool III case, and its options for cable management. I am also pleased with the design of the Corsair Shift PSU, as the cables are on the side of the PSU, and all of them are long enough to thread through without any issue.

 

[consptheory77]

FWIW, I see now in other places that users suggest that if you install the cooler bracket first it will help holding the ILM backplate in place, and I might try that, that's easy enough and doesn't involve touching the board. The force which the default ILM imposes feels unnaturally harsh.

"Z790 motherboards tend to be thicker than Z690" Thermalgrizzly told one user who had problems threading the screws into the frame

 

[consptheory77]

"Z790 motherboards tend to be thicker than Z690" Thermalgrizzly told one user who had problems threading the screws into the frame

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/z4va34/contact_frame_necessary_for_z790_bords/

"Just be aware that there are issues with the Thermal Grizzly frame fitting some Z790 motherboards, the included ILM screws on these boards are only 1/4", which isn't long enough to mount the TG frame, and the TG frame doesn't come with the necessary 3/8" screws."

 

[sitehostplus]

So I am trying to do my build. I got everything assembled, first try, no power up. It's a dead PSU. (MSI A1000G). Got my replacement PSU yesterday (Corsair Shift 1000W). Paper clip test works (I know, it doesn't measure proper voltages but rules out DOA), fan spins up and then stops, I assume because the way many higher end PSUs are made these days, the fan won't spin unless it's needed. Hook up the PSU to the motherboard. The PSU power ups, but the system does not. No fans or anything. So I'm assuming now the motherboard is dead too I'm ruling out the RAM, because I have two sets just in case, and I know I seated them properly. As for the CPU, I suppose it's possible it's DOA, but that's extremely rare, plus in any case, the fans should still spin up, right? I am worried that since I put the Thermalright bracket for LGA 1700, the CPU was seated improperly, but the motherboard looked fine to me when I got it, and both the CPU and the motherboard board pins look fine now that I've delidded, I removed the motherboard and am going to send it back.

I did buy a "used" motherboard, i.e., an Amazon return. I am thinking someone got a DOA, Amazon just took it and "put it back on the shelf" and relisted it. I ordered a brand new one from them. I will not do this again, not at least to save I think it was maybe $25, it's not worth the loss in time if you get a DOA.

But I am also concerned about whether maybe I did something to it. Ideally, you handle it by the edges to avoid touching the circuit board. But to install the Thermalright contact frame you have to remove the normal CPU lock mechanism, and re-align the motherboard's back bracket with the new frame. "It's so easy to install." Well, no it isn't, unless you have a motherboard holder, which I don't and don't think I need to buy just to do this, but there is some futzing around with the back, indeed, one guy in one video had to hold the back of the motherboard, and I thought that was a non-no- but now it's obvious you do have to, and so I'm thinking maybe I did something to the motherboard trying to install the contact frame. I will not being doing this with the new motherboard.

"Our internal data show that the IHS on 12th Gen desktop processors may have slight deflection after installation in the socket. Such minor deflection is expected and does not cause the processor to run outside of specifications." , Intel says. So I think I'm going with that.

But what are some dos and dont's with the motherboard?

Like, don't hold it in your lap, right? (I could not in fact put the original locking mechanism back on the motherboard for the return without doing so.)

And any recommendations for magnetic screwdrivers? Because those little motherboards screws are driving me nuts!

I'm going to give you my standard practices I always do.

1. I leanred from a University of Arizona study that over 97% of all electronics fails due to ESD. There are two things in particular that I do to eliminate that as a possibility.

a. Always handle all computer components with an ESD strap attached to one of your wrists.

b. Take the other end and connect it to the metal computer casing. Also, ensure the on/off switch on the power supply is in the off position. This ensure you are connected to 'earth ground' with minimal chance of electric shock or accidentally powering on your computer while installing parts (nothing gets your ticker moving quite like hearing the CPU fan energize while installing a video card lol).

2. I learned early on that using magnetic screwdrivers near computer parts is a big no no (nothing like handing over your prized machine because you were stoopid enough to turn your friends machine into e-waste because you used a magnetic screwdriver in the assembly of such). Though I still do this, this rule is currently under review (if anyone on Tom's Hardware is an electronic engineer for one of the major computer firms, DM me so we can discuss this).

Those are my rules. I follow them to the 'T' and I've never had problems with stuff blowing up when followed.

 

[CountMike]

My first rule. Don't touch exposed contacts even if you are grounded, at best they could smudge and acid and salt in sweat will damage contacts sooner or later, even gold. Second rule, Don't stress mechanically any components, set them crooked or let them bend and watch what you are doing with screwdriver. use the proper one for a screw. Magnetized screwdrivers are no threat to week for any induction. Magnets are not a problem but moving them over conductors produce some electricity which can be damaging to very low voltage components. That I demonstrated many times by waving very strong magnets over running and not running parts, nothing ever happened.
Another rule is not to do anything while there's any power going to components and that includes switching PSU right off and pressing start button for few seconds to empty any capacitors.

 

[Grobe]

Do I have to wear one on both hands?

No. That will just hampering your work flow

Am I attaching the metal point at the end to the case?

Well, yes. In a professional workshop there use to be anti static mat on the table that has proper metal point for this purpose. But on the case should do just good. But you still need to always touch the ground parts of the motherboard first (because only connect to the pc case isn't the same as being properly grounded, but still better than nothing).

Never noticed any static issue. Better to go barefoot?

Well, yes indeed it is.

2. I learned early on that using magnetic screwdrivers near computer parts is a big no no (nothing like handing over your prized machine because you were stoopid enough to turn your friends machine into e-waste because you used a magnetic screwdriver in the assembly of such). Though I still do this, this rule is currently under review (if anyone on Tom's Hardware is an electronic engineer for one of the major computer firms, DM me so we can discuss this).

Never hard about such rules. Must be some misunderstanding because the magnetic strength of the tip of a screw driver is generally too weak to induce any sufficient voltage. To be able to do any harm, you not only need a powerful magnet, but also a proper coil pointing the right way (i.e. not with ring core) that is fully open or with air gap (never seen those on a modern mother board anyway) AND you need to move the magnetic field fast enough (and a bigger magnet have often a larger field that mitigate this effect).

So yes - if the conditions is perfectly set (i.e. with the coils you normally find in radio transmitters and radio receivers) - AND a very powerful magnet AND this magnet is designed in a special way so that the magnetic field are compressed (opposite poles are very close like those found in loud speakers) AND you move the magnet rapidly across the coils - yes you might be able to do some harm. However unless you really try to make a pcb defect this way, I really doubt you get to make any damage - much more likely you miss and destroy the card by hitting some component or board itself hard with the magnet.

Another thing: If pcb boards did have this weakness - Just imagine how many people would try to scam the manufacturers trying to broke a pcb using the "magnet trick" to get full refund. Or - extremely easy to take revenge of anybody just bring a strong magnet close to the victims laptop.

 

[sitehostplus]

Never hard about such rules. Must be some misunderstanding because the magnetic strength of the tip of a screw driver is generally too weak to induce any sufficient voltage. To be able to do any harm, you not only need a powerful magnet, but also a proper coil pointing the right way (i.e. not with ring core) that is fully open or with air gap (never seen those on a modern mother board anyway) AND you need to move the magnetic field fast enough (and a bigger magnet have often a larger field that mitigate this effect).

So yes - if the conditions is perfectly set (i.e. with the coils you normally find in radio transmitters and radio receivers) - AND a very powerful magnet AND this magnet is designed in a special way so that the magnetic field are compressed (opposite poles are very close like those found in loud speakers) AND you move the magnet rapidly across the coils - yes you might be able to do some harm. However unless you really try to make a pcb defect this way, I really doubt you get to make any damage - much more likely you miss and destroy the card by hitting some component or board itself hard with the magnet.

Another thing: If pcb boards did have this weakness - Just imagine how many people would try to scam the manufacturers trying to broke a pcb using the "magnet trick" to get full refund. Or - extremely easy to take revenge of anybody just bring a strong magnet close to the victims laptop.

Truth is, we are probably both right (as far as I can tell).

In the late 1980's (you know, the dinosaur era of the computer age) I got my first training in PC repair. The guy running the class was the factory rep for Zenith Data Systems (they were under contract to provide PC-AT clone computers to the US Navy). I heard it there first.

This is from an old COMP TIA A+ certification guide.

"Avoid using a magnetic screwdriver when working on a computer. It can cause permanent loss of data on hard drives or floppy disks. Magnetism can also induce currents into components and damage them...."

This also goes back to the 1990's as well (you know, the computer stone age).

Now let's fast forward to my latest build. Some things I noticed.

1. The box my Ryzen processor came in is secured on one end via two magnets (🤣)

2. The water cooler AIO kit features a water pump that sits on the CPU. It has in it a couple of very, very strong magnets (ask me how I know, I dare you).

So yeah, I'm willing to admit things have changed, and this is no longer the case. All I want is for someone with the background in computer hardware design to tell me things have changed, and I'll more than gladly drop this rule (I have DCD, and it makes it really hard to put screws into computers without some kind of mishap).

If you are such a person, I humbly apologize. I'm still getting to know people here.

 

[Grobe]

Aha - yes indeed when talking way back in the 80's and 90's and flimsy floppy disks, I see where this came from.

 

[CountMike]

Truth is, we are probably both right (as far as I can tell).

In the late 1980's (you know, the dinosaur era of the computer age) I got my first training in PC repair. The guy running the class was the factory rep for Zenith Data Systems (they were under contract to provide PC-AT clone computers to the US Navy). I heard it there first.

This is from an old COMP TIA A+ certification guide.

"Avoid using a magnetic screwdriver when working on a computer. It can cause permanent loss of data on hard drives or floppy disks. Magnetism can also induce currents into components and damage them...."

This also goes back to the 1990's as well (you know, the computer stone age).

Now let's fast forward to my latest build. Some things I noticed.

1. The box my Ryzen processor came in is secured on one end via two magnets (🤣)

2. The water cooler AIO kit features a water pump that sits on the CPU. It has in it a couple of very, very strong magnets (ask me how I know, I dare you).

So yeah, I'm willing to admit things have changed, and this is no longer the case. All I want is for someone with the background in computer hardware design to tell me things have changed, and I'll more than gladly drop this rule (I have DCD, and it makes it really hard to put screws into computers without some kind of mishap).

If you are such a person, I humbly apologize. I'm still getting to know people here.

2. Pumps have motor and actual pump connected only by magnets, there's no shaft going thru to avid seal and possible leakage.

 

[DSzymborski]

I've built about 50 PCs and helped friends, family, and colleagues repair about 100 in-person over the last 30 years and have always used a magnetic screwdriver and never had a data loss from a hard drive as a result. I'm not even the slightest bit careful since floppy disks are no longer a thing in most applications.

In any case, if magnets destroyed hard drives so easily, then hard drives wouldn't even be functional as currently designed; the magnets *inside* your hard drive are stronger than the extremely weak magnetic force of a magnetic screwdriver and they're a heckuva lot closer to the platters.

 

[Tac 25]

a lot has been said already, so not much more to add.

had help from a technician on installing my lga 1200 mobo. We did not use wrist straps. But the technician did do something to remove static from the case before he started screwing the mobo into it. My memory is a bit hazy, but I think the cooler and cpu were installed to the mobo, before it was screwed to the case. Ram stick added. Case fan connected to mobo. SSD connected. Powered on + Windows 10 installed. And lastly, the CD that came with the mobo was used to install basic things like integrated graphics drivers, winrar, etc.

and it's done. Thankfully, no problems encountered.
btw, my mobo was purchased brand new with box and warranty from a store at the mall.

_______

edit:

wait, we did make a minor mistake. The technician installed everything from the cd, including Norton. People here in the forum told me that Norton is not good, so had to uninstall it after a few days. lol

 

[consptheory77]

"Ryan, be careful what you shoot at. Most things in here don't react too well to bullets."

lol

and this guy did it all the wrong ways

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDUZRNp4pxg&ab_channel=JayzTwoCents


but, I got my new motherboard, assembled it on the box, while wearing socks and sandals, used magnetic screwdrivers to place the screws (but had to actually use a regular screwdriver to screw them in), booted it up,
was initially disconcerted to not hear a POST beep, but saw the fans spin, and it booted immediately into BIOS.
(Come to find out MSI boards don't beep on POST and they haven't for a long while.)

then I had to deal with Microsoft's absurd demand to be connected in order to install which meant I had to buy a long ethernet cord because wifi won't work without drivers only to find out I could use my phone's hotspot (which wouldn't connect to the desktop wirelessly) by connecting my phone to the desktop through USB tethering, and I had to do this because the Ethernet cord didn't work either.

When I got the motherboard, the pin array looked discolored in spots. I don't know if that's normal, but I guess I won't worry about it, I haven't stress tested the CPU yet, but on idle it's 30C, and all the fans, both the CPU cooler, and the case fans, are incredibly quiet.

 

[BFG-9000]

In the late 1980's (you know, the dinosaur era of the computer age) I got my first training in PC repair. The guy running the class was the factory rep for Zenith Data Systems (they were under contract to provide PC-AT clone computers to the US Navy). I heard it there first.

This is from an old COMP TIA A+ certification guide.

"Avoid using a magnetic screwdriver when working on a computer. It can cause permanent loss of data on hard drives or floppy disks. Magnetism can also induce currents into components and damage them...."

This is the same Navy that regularly puts entire steel boats in a giant electromagnet to degauss them, so they are less likely to attract the magnetic sensors of sea mines as they pass by. They leave the XP computers with hard drives and floppies on board while they do this and it never seems to do them any harm.

As for static, the traditional used-PC parts store will pile bare PCBs in what are obviously wooden record bins repurposed from long-defunct LP record stores. Customers dig through the piles with their bare hands and no grounding strap, select items and walk through the store to the register with them then bring them home, and they still work.

I'm not saying you shouldn't take precautions, but electronics are way less sensitive than most people think

then I had to deal with Microsoft's absurd demand to be connected in order to install which meant I had to buy a long ethernet cord because wifi won't work without drivers

You can still install Windows, even Windows 11, offline with a local account but Microsoft keeps changing the hoops you have to jump through to do it, so it's best to look up how each time you run into this.