AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[jdwii]

Sometimes i like to listen to all these hardware nuts then reality kicks in

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Xbox-One-PlayStation-4-IGNITE-Frostbite-Rajat-Taneja,22756.html

Where do they come up with this stuff? Lets see using a 1.2Ghz 8 core K10(based off benchmarks) is ahead of PC's????? Using a modify 7850 is ahead of a Titan? Having DDR3 ram and having it used for graphics makes the console better?

Sometimes i'm wondering if i'm drunk all the time.

 

[truegenius]

low clocked 8 k10 like cores pumping over 100GFlops ?
mine 1090t can only hit 85GFlops when clocked to 4.2ghz with tweaked nb and ram
or am i too drunk ?

 

[jdwii]

low clocked 8 k10 like cores pumping over 100GFlops ?
mine 1090t can only hit 85GFlops when clocked to 4.2ghz with tweaked nb and ram
or am i too drunk ?

I'm more then sure theyre talking about the WHOLE APU when bringing in those scores not just the CPU, the point was based on those benchmarks a 1.8Ghz(rumored clock speed for the consoles) 8 core jaguar is still going to perform as a 1.2-1.4Ghz 8 core Athlon(if that product existed).

 

[de5_Roy]

Sometimes i like to listen to all these hardware nuts then reality kicks in

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Xbox-One-PlayStation-4-IGNITE-Frostbite-Rajat-Taneja,22756.html

Where do they come up with this stuff? Lets see using a 1.2Ghz 8 core K10(based off benchmarks) is ahead of PC's????? Using a modify 7850 is ahead of a Titan? Having DDR3 ram and having it used for graphics makes the console better?

Sometimes i'm wondering if i'm drunk all the time.

ea will always hype consoles over pcs.

imo the gpu in ps4 is more like 7855 or 7860 in terms of configuration. i could be wrong since amd's model numbering is not always coherent.

programmers can program at very low level in consoles where in pcs, windows is the main barrier. i am hearing rumors that windows might be an obstacle for hsa. unless, imo, amd and ms work things out beforehand. a functional hsa implementation will demand mutual cooperation from both.

 

[esrever]

Also i would LOVE to see how "supercharged" this design is for the consoles and what that actually means outside of marketing. I hope sites review that when it comes out because if it has anything short of Piledrivers IPC its going to be quite pathetic honestly from a consoles viewpoint.

Supercharged by having twice as many cores (8 vs 4), and 6-9 times more Graphic compute units. Kabini only has 2 CU compared to Xbox (12 CU) and PS4 (18 CU). PS4 also gets GDDR5 and Xbox One has 32mb eDRAM. The extra custom stuff is likely just for DRM but combined that easily qualifies the term supercharged.

But it still has the horrible single threaded performance(60-90% of a K10 Consoles CPU is basically a 1.2Ghz 8 core Athlon II), why didn't they just go with a 4 Core Processor at a clock speed of 3.2Ghz.

8 jaguar cores are less than 50mm^2 with L2. 4 llano cores are almost 100mm^2. That and power consumption concerns. Nobody cares about cpu performance when you need to put as much TPD into the GPU as possible for a game console.

 

[jdwii]

Also i would LOVE to see how "supercharged" this design is for the consoles and what that actually means outside of marketing. I hope sites review that when it comes out because if it has anything short of Piledrivers IPC its going to be quite pathetic honestly from a consoles viewpoint.

Supercharged by having twice as many cores (8 vs 4), and 6-9 times more Graphic compute units. Kabini only has 2 CU compared to Xbox (12 CU) and PS4 (18 CU). PS4 also gets GDDR5 and Xbox One has 32mb eDRAM. The extra custom stuff is likely just for DRM but combined that easily qualifies the term supercharged.

But it still has the horrible single threaded performance(60-90% of a K10 Consoles CPU is basically a 1.2Ghz 8 core Athlon II), why didn't they just go with a 4 Core Processor at a clock speed of 3.2Ghz.

8 jaguar cores are less than 50mm^2 with L2. 4 llano cores are almost 100mm^2. That and power consumption concerns. Nobody cares about cpu performance when you need to put as much TPD into the GPU as possible for a game console.

Hence why the console will always be limited and forced into dropped frames, from what i noticed the 360 is incapable of keeping a solid FPS without stuttering. But i get it now, i just don't want them saying its a beast because in many ways that's untrue.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Again, back in the day, we hadnt topped out in our TDP like today.
To compare chips today, simply find similar chips with similar TDP then, now make comparisons, and then extrapolate what current consoles can do vs the new ones.
Thats not counting HSA and hUMA either

 

[mayankleoboy1]

programmers can program at very low level in consoles where in pcs, windows is the main barrier. i am hearing rumors that windows might be an obstacle for hsa. unless, imo, amd and ms work things out beforehand. a functional hsa implementation will demand mutual cooperation from both.

What are the chances MS will support (allow ?) a true HSA/HUMA architecture from AMD , unless Intel also jumps on the HSA bandwagon ?
AFAIK, simply installing drivers from AMD will not allow full HSA.

Also, will MS and AMD use HSA as an excuse to push Win8 crap ?

 

[de5_Roy]

What are the chances MS will support (allow ?) a true HSA/HUMA architecture from AMD , unless Intel also jumps on the HSA bandwagon ?
AFAIK, simply installing drivers from AMD will not allow full HSA.

Also, will MS and AMD use HSA as an excuse to push Win8 crap ?

microsoft should support hsa and huma, if they realize it's good for them. if temash or a temash upgrade version can grab a design win like surface pro, amd will have a big chance to push hsa. i think intel has less pull here than arm and amd combined.
i assumed that windows might get in the way of the dynamic cpu/igpu and memory management. another problem might be with how windows manages tri-module kaveri apus(cpu part). the hotfixes don't really improve much.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

A little slow, so I thought I would drop this, nice layman's info here
http://www.laserfocusworld.com/articles/print/volume-49/issue-05/features/photonic-frontiers--euv-lithography--euv-lithography-has-yet-to-.html

 

[juanrga]

Anyone have any idea on what Steamroller's performance increases would be over Piledriver?

Between 15% and a 30%?

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-s-Steamroller-To-Be-Faster-than-Intel-Haswell-289980.shtml

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/09/06/a-brief-look-at-amds-steamroller-core/

 

[juanrga]

Also i would LOVE to see how "supercharged" this design is for the consoles and what that actually means outside of marketing. I hope sites review that when it comes out because if it has anything short of Piledrivers IPC its going to be quite pathetic honestly from a consoles viewpoint.

Supercharged by having twice as many cores (8 vs 4), and 6-9 times more Graphic compute units. Kabini only has 2 CU compared to Xbox (12 CU) and PS4 (18 CU). PS4 also gets GDDR5 and Xbox One has 32mb eDRAM. The extra custom stuff is likely just for DRM but combined that easily qualifies the term supercharged.

But it still has the horrible single threaded performance(60-90% of a K10 Consoles CPU is basically a 1.2Ghz 8 core Athlon II), why didn't they just go with a 4 Core Processor at a clock speed of 3.2Ghz.

The 8 core design was one of game developers choice. Sony/AMD offered them 4, 8, and beyond 8 core designs and developers choose 8.

The only thing is, how long it will take games to scale better against multiple cores? Will it be 2014 or 2015? Will the new consoles even affect PC gaming? In the coming years more cores will eventually take over, but by then Piledriver and Bulldozer may be too old to benefit. I haven't even run into a game that stresses my current system out yet, but I still want to upgrade for some future proofing (and I want to be able to max Sims 4 out next year).

Most of first gen PS4 games will be using more than 4 cores. Killzone demo is already using 6. Yes consoles will affect PC gaming

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-future-proofing-your-pc-for-next-gen

as older consoles did. Did you ask why most PC games are so poorly threaded? Because Xbox 360 is tri-core and PS3 is single-core.

 

[viridiancrystal]

Spoiler

Also i would LOVE to see how "supercharged" this design is for the consoles and what that actually means outside of marketing. I hope sites review that when it comes out because if it has anything short of Piledrivers IPC its going to be quite pathetic honestly from a consoles viewpoint.

Supercharged by having twice as many cores (8 vs 4), and 6-9 times more Graphic compute units. Kabini only has 2 CU compared to Xbox (12 CU) and PS4 (18 CU). PS4 also gets GDDR5 and Xbox One has 32mb eDRAM. The extra custom stuff is likely just for DRM but combined that easily qualifies the term supercharged.

But it still has the horrible single threaded performance(60-90% of a K10 Consoles CPU is basically a 1.2Ghz 8 core Athlon II), why didn't they just go with a 4 Core Processor at a clock speed of 3.2Ghz.

I would imagine that there are two good reasons to believe that an 8 core Jaguar@1.6 would, over all, be better than a 4 core Jaguar@3.2.
1) Lower power. Jaguar is designed will tablets, netbooks, and ultrabooks in mind. Its design probably is not well suited to go even near 3Ghz.
2) Lower clock speed=greater performance per clock. CPUs are not perfect. Cache misses happen, branching predictions happen, etc. The more you make the front-end decoders/predictors work, the more likely mistakes are to happen. Clock speed, as such, does not scale perfectly, and scales very inefficiently at (very) high clocks. Granted, multiple threads do not scale perfectly either, but I can confidently assume that Jaguar would scale much worse than threading would at that high a clock speed.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

The best possible strategy for AMD to popularise multi-core computing is to start adding code to Firefox and Chrome. As long as web browsers remain mostly single threaded, everyday-multi-core computing will be meh. Making the current mozilla engine multiprocessing is almost impossible, except for a selected few cases. Adding GPU acceleration is comparitively easier.
Samsung are smart that they started contributing code to the mozilla experimental multithreaded engine Servo. I wont be much surprised if Google also have something similar going deep in their dungeons.

And to all the people who say that "multithreaded coding is easy" , you dont have a clue how actual, production ready coding is done.

 

[8350rocks]

The best possible strategy for AMD to popularise multi-core computing is to start adding code to Firefox and Chrome. As long as web browsers remain mostly single threaded, everyday-multi-core computing will be meh. Making the current mozilla engine multiprocessing is almost impossible, except for a selected few cases. Adding GPU acceleration is comparitively easier.
Samsung are smart that they started contributing code to the mozilla experimental multithreaded engine Servo. I wont be much surprised if Google also have something similar going deep in their dungeons.

And to all the people who say that "multithreaded coding is easy" , you dont have a clue how actual, production ready coding is done.

I would bet google is high on this as well. Considering they use Linux based kernel for Android, it should be pretty easy for them to implement such things into Chrome. Firefox is also pretty popular on Linux, so I would bet that will also be forthcoming.

Linux kernel is so much "smarter" than windows kernel. MS really needs to get their act together. Win8 is a subpar product, and they're trying to ram it down the consumer's throat. I would bet we see a Vista like short product cycle on win8 if I was a gambling man...unless they're that committed, in terms of resources, to this product. In which case, I would expect the minority operating systems of the world will start competing more and taking market share from MS. That would likely open their eyes a bit to the travesty that is windows 8. Sadly, it has some decent features incorporated, it's just geared more toward tablets and other things, and less toward a typical desktop OS.

 

[m32]

AMD Jaguar vs AMD Llano (K10) at same clocks

http://codedivine.org/2013/05/25/amd-jaguar-vs-amd-llano-k10-at-same-clocks/




I see an few people were wondering the same thing.

 

[jdwii]

AMD Jaguar vs AMD Llano (K10) at same clocks

http://codedivine.org/2013/05/25/amd-jaguar-vs-amd-llano-k10-at-same-clocks/




I see an few people were wondering the same thing.

I'll just say 20% less performance per clock while using half the power. But still from a Pure CPU Performance standpoint the consoles rumored clock rate is 1.8Ghz. which would equal to a 1.44Ghz 8 core Llano in the consoles that probably consumes up to 35 Watts. In less than 5 years smartphones will be more powerful in CPU performance.

 

[8350rocks]

AMD Jaguar vs AMD Llano (K10) at same clocks

http://codedivine.org/2013/05/25/amd-jaguar-vs-amd-llano-k10-at-same-clocks/




I see an few people were wondering the same thing.

I'll just say 20% less performance per clock while using half the power. But still from a Pure CPU Performance standpoint the consoles rumored clock rate is 1.8Ghz. which would equal to a 1.44Ghz 8 core Llano in the consoles that probably consumes up to 35 Watts. In less than 5 years smartphones will be more powerful in CPU performance.

But being able to code down to the bare metal will make up some of the inefficiency. Additionally, I don't see smart phones packing 8 cores with HD 7860ish GPUs. (More than 7850 less than 7870)

 

[cowboy44mag]

The end of this year and beginning of next is going to be extremely interesting in the AMD vs Intel "battle". For years AMD has had to deal with trying to best Intel using software designed and coded for Intel processors. For the first time, I think in history, Intel is going to have to see how its hardware holds up when it goes toe to toe with AMD using software expressly coded for AMD processors. The consoles drive PC games, as before noted almost all the previous generation of games ran on maximum of 3 cores, because the Xbox 360 had a max of 3 cores. This generation of consoles boasts 8 core AMD processors.

The end of this year and beginning of next will be the start of truly multi-threaded games running 4-6 cores, expressly coded for AMD hardware. The next gen console hardware is so "PC" that the ports to PC should be quick with very little tweaks and changes. I'm just wondering how Intel will fare (in gaming) when the software is coded for the other guy- that is not a position Intel is use to, in fact I don't think they have ever been in that situation before.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

I am wondering if the PC-like design of consoles could lead to PS4/XB1 games being run on PC itself, without any emulators.

 

[esrever]

I am wondering if the PC-like design of consoles could lead to PS4/XB1 games being run on PC itself, without any emulators.

no

 

[noob2222]

low clocked 8 k10 like cores pumping over 100GFlops ?
mine 1090t can only hit 85GFlops when clocked to 4.2ghz with tweaked nb and ram
or am i too drunk ?

I'm more then sure theyre talking about the WHOLE APU when bringing in those scores not just the CPU, the point was based on those benchmarks a 1.8Ghz(rumored clock speed for the consoles) 8 core jaguar is still going to perform as a 1.2-1.4Ghz 8 core Athlon(if that product existed).

And the twist on this stupid "gimmick article" is utilizing servers to make up for the lack of actual hardware.

2nd half of the bloated statement is found here :
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Xbox-One-Cloud-Jeff-Henshaw-Matt-Booty-Adam-Pollington,22775.html

half baked meandering about specs ftl.

 

[jdwii]

I am wondering if the PC-like design of consoles could lead to PS4/XB1 games being run on PC itself, without any emulators.

no

There really was nothing much to add to that.

And noob i know its pretty pathetic to read that article i'm pretty sure Microsoft is unaware of the amount of users who can't get high-speed internet, thanks to cheap DSL providers. Even if not true its nice to see Microsoft have that much confidence that they can keep a server up for 24/7 with LOTS of users on it, they must be using unix. :lol:

 

[mayankleoboy1]

Are there any GPU accelerated anti-virus ? I suppose a GPU can be pretty handy for pattern matching and heuristic detection.

 

[8350rocks]

I am wondering if the PC-like design of consoles could lead to PS4/XB1 games being run on PC itself, without any emulators.

no

There really was nothing much to add to that.

And noob i know its pretty pathetic to read that article i'm pretty sure Microsoft is unaware of the amount of users who can't get high-speed internet, thanks to cheap DSL providers. Even if not true its nice to see Microsoft have that much confidence that they can keep a server up for 24/7 with LOTS of users on it, they must be using unix. :lol:

LOL...how funny would that be? MS using AMD servers running RHEL? HAHAHHAHAHAHA!