AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[logainofhades]

There have been a few articles over the past year saying the adoption rate of Windows 8 has been slower than Vista.

 

[jimmysmitty]

There have been a few articles over the past year saying the adoption rate of Windows 8 has been slower than Vista.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9242048/Windows_8_surpasses_Vista_s_uptake_rate_10_months_after_launch

Although Windows 8's 10-month user share is larger than Vista's, it remains far behind Windows 7's at the same point in the latter's roll-out. Ten months after Windows 7's October 2009 launch, the OS had accumulated a 17.3% share of all Windows PCs -- more than double Windows 8's.

Windows 8 10 month market share was ahead of Vista. How is that a lower adoption rate than Vista?

Windows 7 was obviously better. It was a great OS that didn't even really need SP1 and 8 is as well.

As well, the main problem with the method is it uses website visits to track which means the data could easily be skewed, unlike say how Steam does it by gathering information right from the computer once instead of every PC as it visits a web page, considering most people are on dynamic IPs it could easily skew the results if they visit it multiple times with a different IP.

 

[logainofhades]

http://bgr.com/2014/01/17/microsoft-windows-8-vista-comparison/

 

[juanrga]

linux fanboys are cute lol na everyone likes different things

That is what linux main philosophy is about: choice.

What I find 'cute' is how some people call fanboy to other whereas he is proud of how he can do something in his newest version of Windows, when the 'new' feature has been available to linux users since four or five years ago, such as the ability to double click an ISO file to mount it.

I honestly do not consider mobile gaming the same. If we are talking gaming it is not the same.

As for Steam Boxes, they are great because it does not require proprietary hardware or the OS itself. You can buy a pre built Steam Box and use Windows or build a custom PC and throw SteamOS on it.

We agree. They are to gaming consoles what first clone PCs were to proprietary desktops.

On Steams Hardware survey, 8 outweighs XP and Vista combined at over 20% there so it looks like gamers are fine with 8 so far. Vista never really had a massive growth on Steam like 7 did.

Most popular OS on Steam is W7 64b with 50%. W7 32b is 12%. All windows 8 versions (8.0 and 8.1 for both 32b and 64b) combined are 22%. This is odd considering that new windows is pre-installed in almost any new PC purchased in store.

The majority of consumers who buy PCs are not like us. We know what we know because we are enthusiasts. We have systems that are more powerful than the rest of our families systems combined. Do you think they need a complicated OS like Linux that requires advanced command line input without a GUI to install drivers? Or would a more simplified OS be better for some guy who has no clue what the difference between RAM and hard drive space is?

No. I am not talking about advanced users, who can change their desktop environment by another and can personalize it to do it unique in the world. I am talking about average Joe and Jane. I have installed linux in average Joe and Jane PCs and they got how to manage it in a pair of days. Grandma also finds it easy to use. They don't know what hardware is inside their box and never used console to install anything.

Linux is simpler than W7 and of course simpler than W8. You are repeating a myth spread by Windows users or fans. In fact the immense majority of people in the world is not using Windows anymore, but linux, which is pre-installed in their phone/tablet.

 

[truegenius]

That is what linux main philosophy is about: choice.

how i see linux
you : its open source
I : its free
you : freedom of software, get source code and compile it as you want
I : you mean its free we just have to do is dasrjoirghdjghaiohtoaewrtalkn...!!!

On Steams Hardware survey, 8 outweighs XP and Vista combined at over 20% there so it looks like gamers are fine with 8 so far. Vista never really had a massive growth on Steam like 7 did.

Most popular OS on Steam is W7 64b with 50%. W7 32b is 12%. All windows 8 versions (8.0 and 8.1 for both 32b and 64b) combined are 22%. This is odd considering that new windows is pre-installed in almost any new PC purchased in store.

the only reason xp lost to w8 is because xp does not support above dx9.c
and adaptation rate of w8 is skeptical as almost every new laptop and desktop comes with w8 pre installed and users ( who don't own any other window) don't want to spend more bucks for another window
i suspect that most of the w8 copies are oem or are cause or or under some offer or discount or just plain fanboyism

The majority of consumers who buy PCs are not like us. We know what we know because we are enthusiasts. We have systems that are more powerful than the rest of our families systems combined. Do you think they need a complicated OS like Linux that requires advanced command line input without a GUI to install drivers? Or would a more simplified OS be better for some guy who has no clue what the difference between RAM and hard drive space is?

thats why i still don't use linux

Linux is simpler than W7 and of course simpler than W8. You are repeating a myth spread by Windows users or fans. In fact the immense majority of people in the world is not using Windows anymore, but linux, which is pre-installed in their phone/tablet.

is it as simple as next> i accept > next > next > finish

android is simple because i just have to click on any apk file to install it, i don't need to install additional codec to play songs, i don't need to compile anything, just download and next > next > finish

 

[8350rocks]

The reason for MANTLE coming around is because Devs are tired of being tied to windows...myself included. MANTLE opens platforms to, yes, a specific architecture, but it allows them to port windows games to OSX/Linux via GCN cards. THAT is the point you are all missing. BTW, the work to port DX11 code to MANTLE literally takes 30 minutes...seriously. So, it is not much additional work at all to expose yourself to those other platforms that are literally almost untapped for even double A titles, much less triple A titles.

MANTLE is going nowhere...I could not care less what M$ does with DX12...I am not tying games to windows anymore, and MANTLE allows me to do that. Why do you think CryEngine got on board? EA? Square Enix/Eidos? The same reasons...they can back port those games when cross platform support comes.

The CPU overhead BS is the public marketing hype...the dev hype is "YES!!!! We can FINALLY be RID of M$ and Windows!!!!"

Why would devs want to move away from the main platform for consumers? Games are still not a major market for PCs in comparison to total sales but still game devs wanting to move off to another platform where sales would be only a small few and would also lose out on those other PC sales?

Unless other platforms get the support Windows has, I don't see anything taking over. Even Android is too segregated and still a weak OS in comparison.

Spoiler

For anyone interested I've had a play with star swarm demo, my hardware is pretty low end, turbo disabled 4ghz 4 core trinity and hd 7770. Dont think its really relevant but also 8gb ram, a55 asrock mobo and ssd.

Test settings are 'follow' at preset 'medium' settings, 360 second timed run.

D3D
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 9508

Average FPS: 26.41
Average Unit Count: 4049
Maximum Unit Count: 5221
Average Batches/MS: 340.26
Maximum Batches/MS: 782.64
Average Batch Count: 14417
Maximum Batch Count: 80908

Mantle
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 11765

Average FPS: 32.68
Average Unit Count: 4103
Maximum Unit Count: 5531
Average Batches/MS: 378.91
Maximum Batches/MS: 1554.99
Average Batch Count: 12038
Maximum Batch Count: 66758

Only 6fps more your thinking? Doesn't tell half the story which sort of makes me think review sites aren't either, on dx the fps dips to just 7 when there's lots of units on screen and if it was a game I'd say its unplayable imo. On mantle it dips to 24fps but remains smooth enough for an rts game.

Heres whats really interesting though, I fired up afterburner beforehand (unfortunately didn't actually save the log maybe next time) and how mantle uses my hw looks phenomenal, in d3d the gpu usage is all over the place, in the places I'm sure were the 7 fps dips I'm actually cpu bottle necked, looking at the graphs of the cpu usage one above the other the core usage is all over the place, 2 hover 50% 2 hit 90 odds and the gpu drops.
On mantle my gpu stays at 98% for the entire test, the cores are all used evenly the graphs for each core look strangely similar stacked one above the other, the individual core usage is between 30 and 50% ie nowhere near a bottle neck.
vram usage is maxed on both d3d and mantle but mantle uses 1gb more system ram than d3d.
If anyone wants me to try any settings let me know, I'll try get a log of hw activity next time as well.

Edit, when I think about it, my d3d ss cpu usage is strangely similar to when I play arma/dayz, how could ms get away this rubbish for so long???

The whole purpose to Mantle is to help alleviate the CPU overhead. We had similar abilities in the old days but before D3D became the main, we also had applications and games causing the OS to crash.

This was the purpose to APIs, to allow for applications and drivers to crash and not take the OS with it. Now when you get a BSoD there is only one of two reasons, either a bad piece of hardware or possible OS corruption.

Without the APIs we would have all kinds of crashes and fun times.

And yes, it sucks but honestly it is also due to developers. The developers have been mainly focusing on consoles (most). That means PC hardware has advanced and not been used like it should have.

Maybe with DX12 and the new consoles we wont have that anymore.

Open platform for games would be awesome. Games are the only reason I never took the time to learn Linux. I would gladly make the switch and learn if it meant better software support.

Open platform has its downsides too.

Open platform for games would be awesome. Games are the only reason I never took the time to learn Linux. I would gladly make the switch and learn if it meant better software support.

yet amd keeps stating that mantle support will be tied to windows and gcn for now, with every catalyst release. if they really wanted to make an impact with linux, they woulda started with windows and linux, then android and (or only) steamos subsequently. so all that hype about "open" is, as of now, just hype.

edit: dx12 won't be any better. not due to the api, but due to microsoft's lock-out policies. might force o.s. upgrade onto users.

We shall see. If it comes out soon, I am willing to bet it will push to 7. Mostly because 8/8.1 adoption rates wont pick up fast enough.

We will see at some point but it really depends on adoption rates and if there is any platform updates needed.

Some good links and comparative insight here guys ... keep it coming.

I'll try to get you all a "Mantle Badge"

Can it be some sort of volcanic magma like badge that burns through the spam?

Well, many people know that the underpinnings of the console OSes are mostly highly modified FreeBSD, or some other OS...(even M$ did not try to get much, if any, of windows into their console).

Additionally, there is some hope that steam boxes will take off, and further...there are MANY people out there who game on windows but boot into another OS to do ANYTHING else. Those people could be free of windows..

Lastly, a LARGE portion of the developers out there are NOT using windows. Sure there are some windows machines around...but there are a good sized chunk of guys not using windows.

Plus, do you think a guy running Linux/OSX would not pay the same money for the same triple A game that a windows user would?

 

[jdwii]

linux fanboys are cute lol na everyone likes different things

That is what linux main philosophy is about: choice.

What I find 'cute' is how some people call fanboy to other whereas he is proud of how he can do something in his newest version of Windows, when the 'new' feature has been available to linux users since four or five years ago, such as the ability to double click an ISO file to mount it.

I honestly do not consider mobile gaming the same. If we are talking gaming it is not the same.

As for Steam Boxes, they are great because it does not require proprietary hardware or the OS itself. You can buy a pre built Steam Box and use Windows or build a custom PC and throw SteamOS on it.

We agree. They are to gaming consoles what first clone PCs were to proprietary desktops.

On Steams Hardware survey, 8 outweighs XP and Vista combined at over 20% there so it looks like gamers are fine with 8 so far. Vista never really had a massive growth on Steam like 7 did.

Most popular OS on Steam is W7 64b with 50%. W7 32b is 12%. All windows 8 versions (8.0 and 8.1 for both 32b and 64b) combined are 22%. This is odd considering that new windows is pre-installed in almost any new PC purchased in store.

The majority of consumers who buy PCs are not like us. We know what we know because we are enthusiasts. We have systems that are more powerful than the rest of our families systems combined. Do you think they need a complicated OS like Linux that requires advanced command line input without a GUI to install drivers? Or would a more simplified OS be better for some guy who has no clue what the difference between RAM and hard drive space is?

No. I am not talking about advanced users, who can change their desktop environment by another and can personalize it to do it unique in the world. I am talking about average Joe and Jane. I have installed linux in average Joe and Jane PCs and they got how to manage it in a pair of days. Grandma also finds it easy to use. They don't know what hardware is inside their box and never used console to install anything.

Linux is simpler than W7 and of course simpler than W8. You are repeating a myth spread by Windows users or fans. In fact the immense majority of people in the world is not using Windows anymore, but linux, which is pre-installed in their phone/tablet.

define simple? What percentage of usage does steam have using linux today right now?

 

[ohyouknow]

Linux vs. Windows... any AMD news as of late?

 

[de5_Roy]

Linux vs. Windows... any AMD news as of late?

currently, amd is rolling out their new low cost AM1 platform motherboards and socketed kabini socs. nothing new on excavator or carrizo. most of the recent benches are of mantle (bf4 and thief) performing with kaveri, fx and intel cpus.

anandtech has reviewed three socket fm2+ motherboards recently:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7914/msi-a88xme35-review
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7876/gigabyte-f2a88xup4-review
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7865/asrock-fm2a88x-extreme6-review

toms did a roundup of a88x motherboards. you'll find that article in the motherboards section.

 

[jdwii]

Using the dolphin benchmark my processor(Thuban) is 12% slower than a 7850K when both are clocked at 3.9Ghz with turbo off both did the test around 14:26 vs 12:55 for the 7850K and the wii does it in 17:53.

 

[wh3resmycar]

the bank i'm working for "just" moved to windows 7, that's a couple of thousand workstations. linux will never overtake windows at least in the corporate world but it's pretty viable with devs supporting it in the gaming segment.

currently, amd is rolling out their new low cost AM1 platform motherboards and socketed kabini socs. nothing new on excavator or carrizo. most of the recent benches are of mantle (bf4 and thief) performing with kaveri, fx and intel cpus.

i'd love to see socket am1. my oldman is still using a D-series atom i gifted him 3 years ago.

 

[8350rocks]

the bank i'm working for "just" moved to windows 7, that's a couple of thousand workstations. linux will never overtake windows at least in the corporate world but it's pretty viable with devs supporting it in the gaming segment.

currently, amd is rolling out their new low cost AM1 platform motherboards and socketed kabini socs. nothing new on excavator or carrizo. most of the recent benches are of mantle (bf4 and thief) performing with kaveri, fx and intel cpus.

i'd love to see socket am1. my oldman is still using a D-series atom i gifted him 3 years ago.

Ironically corporate america is where Linux has the strongest foothold. You would not believe some of the MASSIVE entities that run on Linux servers...there are LARGE portions of our government alone that run on them. Individual workstations may be another animal, but the US Govt runs a LOT of Linux, so does the DoD...as well as lots of other large entities.

 

[palladin9479]

Ironically corporate america is where Linux has the strongest foothold. You would not believe some of the MASSIVE entities that run on Linux servers...there are LARGE portions of our government alone that run on them. Individual workstations may be another animal, but the US Govt runs a LOT of Linux, so does the DoD...as well as lots of other large entities.

Yes and No. Corporates and DoD doesn't "use Linux", they use solutions. Private companies that provide those solutions decided to go with a Linux based OS as the OS for that solution. Remember Linux is not an Operating System, it's just a Kernel that tends to be paired with the GNU software base. The vender is paid money to support those solutions.

 

[jdwii]

the bank i'm working for "just" moved to windows 7, that's a couple of thousand workstations. linux will never overtake windows at least in the corporate world but it's pretty viable with devs supporting it in the gaming segment.

currently, amd is rolling out their new low cost AM1 platform motherboards and socketed kabini socs. nothing new on excavator or carrizo. most of the recent benches are of mantle (bf4 and thief) performing with kaveri, fx and intel cpus.

i'd love to see socket am1. my oldman is still using a D-series atom i gifted him 3 years ago.

Ironically corporate america is where Linux has the strongest foothold. You would not believe some of the MASSIVE entities that run on Linux servers...there are LARGE portions of our government alone that run on them. Individual workstations may be another animal, but the US Govt runs a LOT of Linux, so does the DoD...as well as lots of other large entities.

No way if true linux has no future. WOW

 

[de5_Roy]

i'd love to see socket am1. my oldman is still using a D-series atom i gifted him 3 years ago.

already available in u.s. should be much better than d-series atoms. and upgradable. like these:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7869/asrocks-am1-kabini-motherboards-announced-including-19v-dcin-model

fudzilla's "review"
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/34390-heres-our-first-crowdsourced-amd-am1-review

 

[juanrga]

Thirdly, Devs typically aren't told about major API changes until AFTER the API is finalized and released, which didn't happen until GDC last month. So of course they didn't know about it.

Except Microsoft contradicts you:

Indeed, at the keynote, Microsoft's Development Manager for Graphics, Anuj Gosalia, made no mention of Mantle. He stated that "engineers at Microsoft and GPU manufacturers have been working at this for some time," and he added that D3D12 was "designed closely with game developers."

With both AMD and game developers contradicting Microsoft:

I then talked with Ritche Corpus, AMD's Software Alliances and Developer Relations Director. Corpus told me that AMD shared its work on Mantle with Microsoft "from day one" and that parts of Direct3D 12 are "very similar" to AMD's API. I asked if D3D12's development had begun before Mantle's. Corpus' answer: "Not that we know." Corpus explained that, when AMD was developing Mantle, it received no feedback from game developers that would suggest AMD was wasting its time because a similar project was underway at Microsoft. I recalled that, at AMD's APU13 event in November 2013, EA DICE's Johan Andersson expressed a desire to use Mantle "everywhere and on everything." Those are perhaps not the words I would have used if I had known D3D12 was right around the corner.

http://techreport.com/review/26239/a-closer-look-at-directx-12

 

[8350rocks]

the bank i'm working for "just" moved to windows 7, that's a couple of thousand workstations. linux will never overtake windows at least in the corporate world but it's pretty viable with devs supporting it in the gaming segment.

currently, amd is rolling out their new low cost AM1 platform motherboards and socketed kabini socs. nothing new on excavator or carrizo. most of the recent benches are of mantle (bf4 and thief) performing with kaveri, fx and intel cpus.

Ironically corporate america is where Linux has the strongest foothold. You would not believe some of the MASSIVE entities that run on Linux servers...there are LARGE portions of our government alone that run on them. Individual workstations may be another animal, but the US Govt runs a LOT of Linux, so does the DoD...as well as lots of other large entities.

No way if true linux has no future. WOW

Actually, considering the amount of "solutions" being used worldwide with Linux that go completely under the radar of most people you would be amazed. Most European governments use Linux solutions now, including ALL of Spain and Germany, as well as China, and most of the rest of the world. The only bastion where MS has a significantly strong presence is with small cap corporations that do not seek more customized solutions. For example, the majority of Wall Street banks do not use windows based solutions.

 

[noob2222]

http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=9

ya .. Linux is on top ... with just over 1%.

love how we went full circle back to this topic.

Trying to use the amazon's top seller argument would be like saying one device sells 3000/month while 50 windows devices only sell 1500/month. That makes the one device a top seller and that's it. It means nothing for market share.

Total that one device is still 3000/month while the total windows devices would amount to 75,000/month.

 

[jdwii]

Ironically corporate america is where Linux has the strongest foothold. You would not believe some of the MASSIVE entities that run on Linux servers...there are LARGE portions of our government alone that run on them. Individual workstations may be another animal, but the US Govt runs a LOT of Linux, so does the DoD...as well as lots of other large entities.

Yes and No. Corporates and DoD doesn't "use Linux", they use solutions. Private companies that provide those solutions decided to go with a Linux based OS as the OS for that solution. Remember Linux is not an Operating System, it's just a Kernel that tends to be paired with the GNU software base. The vender is paid money to support those solutions.

the bank i'm working for "just" moved to windows 7, that's a couple of thousand workstations. linux will never overtake windows at least in the corporate world but it's pretty viable with devs supporting it in the gaming segment.

currently, amd is rolling out their new low cost AM1 platform motherboards and socketed kabini socs. nothing new on excavator or carrizo. most of the recent benches are of mantle (bf4 and thief) performing with kaveri, fx and intel cpus.

Ironically corporate america is where Linux has the strongest foothold. You would not believe some of the MASSIVE entities that run on Linux servers...there are LARGE portions of our government alone that run on them. Individual workstations may be another animal, but the US Govt runs a LOT of Linux, so does the DoD...as well as lots of other large entities.

No way if true linux has no future. WOW

Actually, considering the amount of "solutions" being used worldwide with Linux that go completely under the radar of most people you would be amazed. Most European governments use Linux solutions now, including ALL of Spain and Germany, as well as China, and most of the rest of the world. The only bastion where MS has a significantly strong presence is with small cap corporations that do not seek more customized solutions. For example, the majority of Wall Street banks do not use windows based solutions.

My point is linux is huge in other countries, plus why pay for something when you can get it for free a lot of businesses can't afford windows server. Lol the place i work at use fog software with ubuntu....trolls.

 

[jimmysmitty]

The reason for MANTLE coming around is because Devs are tired of being tied to windows...myself included. MANTLE opens platforms to, yes, a specific architecture, but it allows them to port windows games to OSX/Linux via GCN cards. THAT is the point you are all missing. BTW, the work to port DX11 code to MANTLE literally takes 30 minutes...seriously. So, it is not much additional work at all to expose yourself to those other platforms that are literally almost untapped for even double A titles, much less triple A titles.

MANTLE is going nowhere...I could not care less what M$ does with DX12...I am not tying games to windows anymore, and MANTLE allows me to do that. Why do you think CryEngine got on board? EA? Square Enix/Eidos? The same reasons...they can back port those games when cross platform support comes.

The CPU overhead BS is the public marketing hype...the dev hype is "YES!!!! We can FINALLY be RID of M$ and Windows!!!!"

Why would devs want to move away from the main platform for consumers? Games are still not a major market for PCs in comparison to total sales but still game devs wanting to move off to another platform where sales would be only a small few and would also lose out on those other PC sales?

Unless other platforms get the support Windows has, I don't see anything taking over. Even Android is too segregated and still a weak OS in comparison.

Spoiler

For anyone interested I've had a play with star swarm demo, my hardware is pretty low end, turbo disabled 4ghz 4 core trinity and hd 7770. Dont think its really relevant but also 8gb ram, a55 asrock mobo and ssd.

Test settings are 'follow' at preset 'medium' settings, 360 second timed run.

D3D
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 9508

Average FPS: 26.41
Average Unit Count: 4049
Maximum Unit Count: 5221
Average Batches/MS: 340.26
Maximum Batches/MS: 782.64
Average Batch Count: 14417
Maximum Batch Count: 80908

Mantle
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 11765

Average FPS: 32.68
Average Unit Count: 4103
Maximum Unit Count: 5531
Average Batches/MS: 378.91
Maximum Batches/MS: 1554.99
Average Batch Count: 12038
Maximum Batch Count: 66758

Only 6fps more your thinking? Doesn't tell half the story which sort of makes me think review sites aren't either, on dx the fps dips to just 7 when there's lots of units on screen and if it was a game I'd say its unplayable imo. On mantle it dips to 24fps but remains smooth enough for an rts game.

Heres whats really interesting though, I fired up afterburner beforehand (unfortunately didn't actually save the log maybe next time) and how mantle uses my hw looks phenomenal, in d3d the gpu usage is all over the place, in the places I'm sure were the 7 fps dips I'm actually cpu bottle necked, looking at the graphs of the cpu usage one above the other the core usage is all over the place, 2 hover 50% 2 hit 90 odds and the gpu drops.
On mantle my gpu stays at 98% for the entire test, the cores are all used evenly the graphs for each core look strangely similar stacked one above the other, the individual core usage is between 30 and 50% ie nowhere near a bottle neck.
vram usage is maxed on both d3d and mantle but mantle uses 1gb more system ram than d3d.
If anyone wants me to try any settings let me know, I'll try get a log of hw activity next time as well.

Edit, when I think about it, my d3d ss cpu usage is strangely similar to when I play arma/dayz, how could ms get away this rubbish for so long???

The whole purpose to Mantle is to help alleviate the CPU overhead. We had similar abilities in the old days but before D3D became the main, we also had applications and games causing the OS to crash.

This was the purpose to APIs, to allow for applications and drivers to crash and not take the OS with it. Now when you get a BSoD there is only one of two reasons, either a bad piece of hardware or possible OS corruption.

Without the APIs we would have all kinds of crashes and fun times.

And yes, it sucks but honestly it is also due to developers. The developers have been mainly focusing on consoles (most). That means PC hardware has advanced and not been used like it should have.

Maybe with DX12 and the new consoles we wont have that anymore.

Open platform for games would be awesome. Games are the only reason I never took the time to learn Linux. I would gladly make the switch and learn if it meant better software support.

Open platform has its downsides too.

Open platform for games would be awesome. Games are the only reason I never took the time to learn Linux. I would gladly make the switch and learn if it meant better software support.

yet amd keeps stating that mantle support will be tied to windows and gcn for now, with every catalyst release. if they really wanted to make an impact with linux, they woulda started with windows and linux, then android and (or only) steamos subsequently. so all that hype about "open" is, as of now, just hype.

edit: dx12 won't be any better. not due to the api, but due to microsoft's lock-out policies. might force o.s. upgrade onto users.

We shall see. If it comes out soon, I am willing to bet it will push to 7. Mostly because 8/8.1 adoption rates wont pick up fast enough.

We will see at some point but it really depends on adoption rates and if there is any platform updates needed.

Some good links and comparative insight here guys ... keep it coming.

I'll try to get you all a "Mantle Badge"

Can it be some sort of volcanic magma like badge that burns through the spam?

Well, many people know that the underpinnings of the console OSes are mostly highly modified FreeBSD, or some other OS...(even M$ did not try to get much, if any, of windows into their console).

Additionally, there is some hope that steam boxes will take off, and further...there are MANY people out there who game on windows but boot into another OS to do ANYTHING else. Those people could be free of windows..

Lastly, a LARGE portion of the developers out there are NOT using windows. Sure there are some windows machines around...but there are a good sized chunk of guys not using windows.

Plus, do you think a guy running Linux/OSX would not pay the same money for the same triple A game that a windows user would?

This is not quite true. While the Xbox and 360 have their own OS that uses some things from Windows, the XB1 does use a Windows 8 based kernel with a custom Xbox OS on top of that and a third OS that makes them communicates together.

The majority of people who prefer to use OSX are not normally gamers. At my last job, the only guys who did use OSX/Linux were pretty much the typical trendy jerks who would once in a while use a console to play a game but were way more into their "photography".

linux fanboys are cute lol na everyone likes different things

That is what linux main philosophy is about: choice.

What I find 'cute' is how some people call fanboy to other whereas he is proud of how he can do something in his newest version of Windows, when the 'new' feature has been available to linux users since four or five years ago, such as the ability to double click an ISO file to mount it.

I honestly do not consider mobile gaming the same. If we are talking gaming it is not the same.

As for Steam Boxes, they are great because it does not require proprietary hardware or the OS itself. You can buy a pre built Steam Box and use Windows or build a custom PC and throw SteamOS on it.

We agree. They are to gaming consoles what first clone PCs were to proprietary desktops.

On Steams Hardware survey, 8 outweighs XP and Vista combined at over 20% there so it looks like gamers are fine with 8 so far. Vista never really had a massive growth on Steam like 7 did.

Most popular OS on Steam is W7 64b with 50%. W7 32b is 12%. All windows 8 versions (8.0 and 8.1 for both 32b and 64b) combined are 22%. This is odd considering that new windows is pre-installed in almost any new PC purchased in store.

The majority of consumers who buy PCs are not like us. We know what we know because we are enthusiasts. We have systems that are more powerful than the rest of our families systems combined. Do you think they need a complicated OS like Linux that requires advanced command line input without a GUI to install drivers? Or would a more simplified OS be better for some guy who has no clue what the difference between RAM and hard drive space is?

No. I am not talking about advanced users, who can change their desktop environment by another and can personalize it to do it unique in the world. I am talking about average Joe and Jane. I have installed linux in average Joe and Jane PCs and they got how to manage it in a pair of days. Grandma also finds it easy to use. They don't know what hardware is inside their box and never used console to install anything.

Linux is simpler than W7 and of course simpler than W8. You are repeating a myth spread by Windows users or fans. In fact the immense majority of people in the world is not using Windows anymore, but linux, which is pre-installed in their phone/tablet.

define simple? What percentage of usage does steam have using linux today right now?

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Less than 1%.

And Linux is not simple. As I said, most require you to launch a admin command prompt and every time you want to do a admin command sudo and enter the password. As well drivers require the GUI, in most, to be turned off then you run the install.

I am sure there are versions that are more simplistic, I haven't looked into SteamOS as I would expect VALVe to make it more simplistic for users but it still doesn't make it more simplistic for normal users.

Linux vs. Windows... any AMD news as of late?

Only that that rumored R9 295X was real per a AMD posted video. AMD is not doing much right now.

http://www.netmarketshare.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=9

ya .. Linux is on top ... with just over 1%.

love how we went full circle back to this topic.

Trying to use the amazon's top seller argument would be like saying one device sells 3000/month while 50 windows devices only sell 1500/month. That makes the one device a top seller and that's it. It means nothing for market share.

Total that one device is still 3000/month while the total windows devices would amount to 75,000/month.

That is mostly desktop I would think. Most phones are probably Android but I am honestly tired of Android and my next phone will probably be a WP8 or 9 depending on what is out when I am up for an upgrade.

 

[colinp]

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Less than 1%.

How is 1.2% less than 1%?

And Linux is not simple. As I said, most require you to launch a admin command prompt and every time you want to do a admin command sudo and enter the password. As well drivers require the GUI, in most, to be turned off then you run the install.

That's simply not true. I've been using OpenSuse for many years now, and installing drivers is as simple as clicking on a link. I'm sure Ubuntu and most of the user friendly distros are similarly simple.

Linux is plenty simple these days. It's just different to Windows, so takes a bit of getting used to. That's no different to migrating to OS X. Even system updates on OpenSuse don't require a password any more as long as you set it up the default way.

 

[noob2222]

Android has its problems, mainly keeping memory usage under control.

Linux is anything but trouble free. How many windows os's have destroyed motherboards just by loading itself?

http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/482858-Booting-Linux-using-UEFI-can-brick-Samsung-laptops

My last personal experience with linux was anything but pleasant. When I got tired of fighting with it, trying to reformat my hdd, windows saw it as a -8 gb drive instead of the 640gb that it was. Ya thats correct, negative 8gb. I finally sent it to seagate for warranty after low level formatting it 4 times trying to fix it.

in short, an os shouldn't be able to so easily destroy hardware. Thats whats keeping me from trying it again.

 

[8350rocks]

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Less than 1%.

How is 1.2% less than 1%?

And Linux is not simple. As I said, most require you to launch a admin command prompt and every time you want to do a admin command sudo and enter the password. As well drivers require the GUI, in most, to be turned off then you run the install.

That's simply not true. I've been using OpenSuse for many years now, and installing drivers is as simple as clicking on a link. I'm sure Ubuntu and most of the user friendly distros are similarly simple.

Linux is plenty simple these days. It's just different to Windows, so takes a bit of getting used to. That's no different to migrating to OS X. Even system updates on OpenSuse don't require a password any more as long as you set it up the default way.

+1, My mother is not technologically savvy in any way, and she can run ubuntu 12.04 LTS and do EVERYTHING she needs with ease. In fact, I get fewer calls to remote her desktop and solve an issue now than I did when she was running windows 7...and THAT was with windows 7!!!! I took one look at windows 8 when it came time to update her OS, and knew that I would get "can you please fix this" calls every other day. With windows 7 it was about once a week, and with ubuntu 12.04 LTS, I get MAYBE one a month.

In short, if my mother can figure out ubuntu, but you cannot...then you have technology issues, or refuse to actually use the software. She even finds the ubuntu app finder setup EASIER than windows was, and loves the fact that she can get USEFUL software for free...

My 8 year old niece can even run the old PC I gave her to mess around on with Linux just fine. The issue is not one of complexity, or even difficulty, I think the issue lies in lack of effort.

Not trying to be mean, but seriously, my mother could not figure out MS Outlook and made a yahoo account instead because she felt it was easier and more intuitive to use...yet she can operate ubuntu to play music, check her email, etc. I even walked her through updating security over the phone and she watched me on her desktop, so she can now run the security update from the menu.

Ubuntu is easily the most user friendly version of Linux available, and I would argue it might just be the most user friendly OS on the market. In fact, they are going to offer a phone OS, and I will probably switch wholesale over to that from android for congruency of devices.

 

[esrever]

Problem with Linux isn't its usability for a casual user, its when you want to run software a more advance user would want. Depending on the software, it either doesn't exist or the open source equivalent of said software is nowhere as robust as the windows version.

If you want to do any productivity in content creation, linux isn't really an option. If you want to play new games, linux is a terrible option as well.

 

[Lessthannil]

I'm glad that your family can use Ubunutu, but this thing for me has been nothing but frustration and disappointment.